Which Witch is Which?

[Lilith]

[]

There's no arbtrary documentation stating exactly the origins of the word witch... unfortunately, I don't have time to type tonight, but I'll be back as soon as I may.

[]

[Cruel Tendencies]

> So, what do Witches do? How many kinds of witches do you think
> there are? What is the origin of the word "witch?"

First let me state that I'm no authority on witchcraft, nor am I a linguist, and I don't claim to be.  But my understanding of the word "witch" is that it comes from (Greek? not sure) Wikk, which means bendable, or pliable (as in wicker basket).  The application of the term to devil-worshippers would mean someone whose will is too weak to resist Satan.

In African Tribal Religions, a witch is generally considered to be evil, a person who manipulates the underlying forces with ill-intent.  There's a difference, in this paradigm, between a witch and a priest of the various spirits and ancestors that work with the tribal people.  These traditions have been carried over to Vodoun, Voodoo, Hoodoo, and similar faiths.

The idea of a witch being evil is also prevalent in Christianity, especially the Christianity of several hundred years ago.  My personal idea of "witchcraft" is the subtle manipulation of people and circumstances for one's personal gain.  Anyone who has these practices could, in my opinion, be considered a "witch", though on a lower note than one who actively works magick and subconcious tricks.

In recent years, as you took note of in your original post, the term "witch" has become almost interchangeable with "Wiccan," mostly due to New Age writers who don't care about much more than raking in piles of cash.

Throughout history, a witch has been regarded as someone who, as I said above, practices "low magick" for the purpose of causing harm to others.  This idea has nothing to do with Wicca, which is an invention of the 20th century, and from what I understand advises that people shouldn't harm one another at all.

"Witch" has also become a label for anyone who practices any kind of nature magick, which in my opinion is also an incorrect usage.  It's said that it comes from the term "Wise one," which is possible, I suppose, though as I said, I'm no authority on the subject.  I think this phenomenon is mostly a result of early Christian churches labeling any kind of magick as evil and witchcraft.  Though I wasn't around for it, so who really knows.


Paul

[Nagual]

Don't forget to talk about sorcerers too!!! [|)]
Isn't a sorcerer the male counterpart of a witch?
I have the impression that more women are into "witchcraft" than men...  Am I right?  If so, do you have an idea why?

[xardas]

quote:Originally posted by Nagual

Don't forget to talk about sorcerers too!!! [|)]
Isn't a sorcerer the male counterpart of a witch?
I have the impression that more women are into "witchcraft" than men...  Am I right?  If so, do you have an idea why?

I don't know if i am right, because i'm no wiccan nor witch, and i don't want to become one. I think a sorcerer is an advanced wiccan. I think there are little more women into "witchcraft". The ones you see on the street wearing a pentagram are most women. Male wiccans usually don't want to let anyone know they are wiccan.

[Aristoles]

From my experience,men are more interested in "witchcraft" while women is more interested in wicca.
Wicca by the way,means male witch

Wicce is female witch

[KoolGZe]

I believe Witch is a title that can only be given to women by secret small covens authorized to do it. Those covens are very restrict and usually only accept women  that already have attained a certain state of evolution. I believe that the godess is cultuated in those covens and that the witches are fluent in natural and High Magic altough giving more importance to natural Magic. I believe Wicca and all of the new age religions are frowned upon by those witches who consider them a deturpation of their religion and system. I believe they take care of their bodies and try to keep themselves beautifull but not because they are vain ; it's because they consider their bodies a temple to the godess.

[n/a]

there! everything is there.
I wrote it.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8002&whichpage=3
and here it is again:

quote:in slav(w)ish language, there are 2 roots for the word witch!

1st: VISHTITSA: which means the woman which makes a milk sauer.
(when she comes into the room, the milk becomes sauer .
that is an metaphore, but still, that is a true legend.)

2nd: VIESHTA: in short: capable woman : woman with skills.
I have met a few, but they quited their skills, soon after,
or they never practised their natural skills,
-out of some stupid reasons, -OF COURSE!
so, I wouldnt know better.

so it seems,
the most of the women are here today,(I will not name a few,here,)
I hope not -all!
to practise their 'magic' without their skills(because they have none!) in the food of others!

only a few patty tricks along the way,
a few technics -at most!
bat wings in chicken soup etc

they do not even know - a basic Energies!- when they (do not) see One.
they think of it as a -SOUP! = "a mixture of all-sort of things"
they cannot differenciate -anything! no skills!
only HOCUS-POCUS with no focus!

people, -DO NOT EAT IT!

that is what witches do, not what they believe at, Koolgzek!

please, separate to do from belief(religion).
like Tisha has!

[n/a]

anyway, VISHTITS is the root for WITCH!
or VCVR! and that women cannot even cook!

sorceres is more quality word for capable woman
don't you all agree?

have you seened One?[:O]

[Lilith]

Rather than rewrite it myself, I'll quote someone who's already said it;

quote:The Old English words for witch, wicce "a female witch" or wicca "a male witch" in no way means "wise one," by the way.  Neither word is even remotely related to our words wit, wise, wisdom, or their Old English equivalents. As near as scholars can tell the words either derive from an Indo-European *wik- meaning "to bend," or another Indo-European root, *weg-  related to words for "lively, watchful."  Old High German had a cognate to witch, wikkerie, as did the Saxon German dialects in the term wikker as does Dutch with wikken. The term does not appear however in the Scandanavian languages (Old Norse vitki is cognate to Old English witega "wise one"). Similarly, there are no cognates in the Scandanavian languages for High German Hexe or Old English hæg (which was once used interchangeably with witch).

The rest of the text can be found here;
http://ealdriht.org/witchcraft.html

There is belief that "to bend" related to the wicc's use of ecstatic dance - not their weak will, that's the first I've heard that, but it makes good propaganda. []

The word "hag" used to be a term of respect... know what hagriography is?
It's the study of saints.
[]

Modern times, and in only the most basic and cursory description, a witch is a practitioner of natural magic.
Some use more formal ritual, some use none at all.
They are not shamans, although some basic shamanic elements may be used by a witch, depending on his/her own strengths and inclinations.

I'm a witch, if I go by any kind of title at all it'd be a kitchen witch because my magic focuses on hearth and home.

[Tisha]

Incantatrix
Lamia
Saga
Maga/Magus
Malefica
Sortilega
Strix
Venefica
strega (Italy)
janara (Italy)
hag/fairy (the words were once interchangeable)
bacularia
stick-rider
fascinatrix
"one with the evil eye"
herberia
screech-owl
pixidria
keeper of the ointment box
wise-woman, wise man
night-monster
incantator
"worker of charms"
cunningman/cunningwoman (Scotland)
incantator
posoner
maliarda
evil-doer
Krstaca "crossed ones," derivitave of christos (Dalmatian)
wijsseggher "wise-sayer" (Holland)
kasaph (seer or diviner - Hebrew)

Latin:  anispex, auguris, divinator, januatica, ligator, mascara, phitonissa, stregula

In early Medival England, there were female clan leaders called "iudices de wich," or judges who were witches.

In old Europe, any unusual ability in a woman instantly raised a charge of witchcraft.  

Most of the history of magic in europe shows how society generally approved of men's involvement in the occult, but punished women who practiced magic:

quote:The Catholic Church distinguished between sorcery, which was generally acceptable, and witchcraft, which was heresy.  Von Nettesheim's books of sorcery were published under church auspices, accompanied by a statement of ecclesiastical approval; indeed, his instructor in magic had been John Trithemius, an abbot.  What the distinction between sorcery and witchcraft boiled down to was that while men could practice magic, women could not.

 From The Womens Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets

The Catholich Church stated that (male) sorcerers were "masters of demons," but that (female) witches were "slaves" to demons.  Perversely, women received harsher punishments during the Inquisition (i.e., brutal torture, rape, and death) than men did (mostly reprimands or beatings).

[wisp]

I believe a witch or witchful ways [] is normal intuitive tendencies manifested in one's life whether it be of a conscious or unconscious intention.

Unknown to me is the origin of the connection with witchcraft. It may have to do with ancester influences, or even of some kind of past connections with what was thought to be superstition or occulism is some way. Putting that aside, it's in each one of us to recognize and utilize (intuition). Re-defining terms may bring about greater understanding of the process.

There seems to be a truth behind superstitions. I've discovered this through my own dream studies.
The falsehoods associated with superstition is that is working systems being used in the wrong context. In other words, things that may work for one person, may not work for the next one. Therefore, the way it works may appear to be superstition. Not necessarily so. Superstition may be an out dated word for misunderstood methods.

Witchcraft may have been labeled because of the earlier days when magic or supernatural ways were less understood. The word witch is another word for a person with intuition. Magic may very well be another word for manifestation or materialization.

This is a very interesting subject to bring up Tisha, thanks.

[Lilith]

By the 14th century the word generally meant "wicked".
According to J.O.Halliwell's Dictionary of Archaic and Provincial Words From the 14th Century;
Wic - A Week.

Wicche -1. A Witch (A.S.)
2. To use witchcraft, to bewitch

Wich - 1. Quick, alive (North)
2. Salt-work (West)
3. A small dairy house (Essex)

Wichdome - Witchcraft\Wich-elm - Broad leaved elm

Wichene - Witches

Wich-waller - A salt-boiler (cheshire)

Wick - 1. A bay, small port, or village on the side of a river
2. Quick, alive.
3. Wight; fit for war (Scott.)
4. A corner (North)

Wicke 1. Wickedness
2. Wicked

Wicken-tree Mountain ash.

Wicker - To castrate a ram (West)

Wight - 1. A person
2. Active, swift
3. A weight
4. White
5. A small space of time
6. A witch

Witch - 1 To bewitch
2. A small candle to make up a pound

Witchify - To bewitch

Witch-ridden - Having the nightmare

Witchraft - Logic, art of wit

Wite - To know

Witch-knots - Elf-knots.

This is considered a good authority of the common speech at that time... it's apparent that the witch is not yet completely vilified.
In fact, the witch never does get completely vilified, except in pockets of the country and some periods of time... think of the fact that the talesof the "good witch" have still made it into our culture, and remained there... think Mother Goose,if nothing else.

Regretfully, I have a tough time accepting Barbara Walker's work without censure. I've got a lot of her stuff, and much is very very good... however, there's enough in her Dictionary of Myths and Secrets and her Encyclopedia of sacred Objects that is tenuous, academically speaking... again, it kinda shadows the good stuff too.

Another very plausable reason for sorcerers being acceptable and witches not was the difference in education and literacy.
A witch doesn't need incantations and forlmulae to work magic, they don't need a formal education... not saying they don't need knowledge, just the kind of knowledge. Herb wifery takes years and years of apprenticing and practice, but there ain't much money in it and ye don't need letters to be proficient.

Men were tried for witchcraft too, not in the numbers of women, definitely, but it did still happen... Barbara Walker's focus is on women, naturally.

[Lilith]

Nicely said, Wisp.
[]

[Tisha]

Yeah  . . . I only quote Walker when I can verify the facts in other places.  Good stuff though, eh?

[Lilith]

Aye, really good stuff.
She's definitely done her homework, and to her credit she cites everything she uses.
... I just think she gets carried away sometimes and isn't quite as objective as perhaps she could be... but that's just an opinion.
[]

[Tisha]

I found these on the Angelfire website.  What do you think?  Agree? Disagree? Can you add to it?

Classical Craft

   Ceremonial
Encompases many traditional rituals with a basis of Egyptian magick and often follow the ceremonies outlined in the ancient Kabbalistic writings.

   Strega
A tradition begun around Italy around 1353 with a woman called Aradia.

   Teutonic
The Teutons have been recognized as one of the earliest and formal practioners of the craft. Their ways of practicing the Craft are also known as Nordic.
 
Gothic Craft

   Caledoni
Of Scottish traditions, this sect is also known as Hecatine. It continues to encompass many of the festivals and celebrations of the Scots.

   Celtic
A mix of Celtic/Druidic pantheon energy. This sect focuses heavily on the elements, nature and the Ancient Ones. With a great knowledge of healig and the magickal qualities of nature, including plants, animals and stones, this tradition is most commonly linked to in the Neo-Pagan sects. Aided by the little people, gnomes and fairies, Celtic magick is full of fun, myrth and mythology.

   Deborean
A combination of Celtic tradition and Native American, most often Cherokee. Formed in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee, the Carolinas and southwestern Virginia sometime between 1780 and 1800. This tradition originated as a result of marriages or family unions between the predominantly Celtic settlers and the Cherokee residents.

   Farrar
A very famous husband and wife team from England, Janet and Stewart Farrar compiled and researched many of the ancient and modern sects to pull the best parts of all into one. Many of today's modern sects are in one way or another based on these studies and compiled materials.

   Hereditary
Based on family traditions passed on generation to generation, (does not included Channeling). Also called "Family Trades", it is up for debate how far back on the family tree one must go to meet the conditions of this sect. The traditions can be passed on to blood relatives or adopted offspring which have been raised within the family ceremonies and rituals. The beliefs are typically Celtic in nature, but include a smattering of many of the current and ancient structures, as well as, many home spun ones.

   Pictish
Also of Scottish tradition, this sect focuses heavily on all aspects of nature. But is different from Celtic sects in that Pictish is a solitary form of Craft.
 

Neo-Pagan Craft

   Alexandrian
Founded in the 1960s by Alex Sanders in England, this sect is losely based on the Gardenarian beliefs. Sanders built his sect in England and called himself "King" of the Coven.

   British Traditional
A mix of Celtic and Gardenarian rituals it is the most famous organization in the International Red Garters society. This sect is based on the Farrar studies of Wicca and is exceptionally structured in belief and ritual. A witch becomes part of the Coven through a training, education and degree process.

   Dianic
Also called "the Feminist" movement of the craft, this sect focuses on the Goddess aspect of Wicca. It was first brought to major attention in 1921 by Margaret Murray and includes aspects of many Classical and Gothic traditions.

   Eclectic
This is a label for the "everything else" in Wicca. It does not follow any particular tradition, ritual or ceremonial practices. Rather practioners focus on what "feels" best and most comfortable to them. Study and practice is than based on information gathered from books, or other practicing witches.

   Gardnerian Wicca
Named after it's founder Gerald Gardner in England during the 1950s. Gardner wanted to ensure that the Old Religion not become extinct by all the new found knowledge and inter-mixing of beliefs. He took his cause to the media at great personal risk to bring his cause and information to a new younger audiance in order to bring growth and life to the ancient traditions.

   Seax-Wicca
Based on the Saxon beliefs, this sect is very closely related to the Gardnerian traditions. Without breaking his oath, founder Raymond Buckland wanted to pull the ancient rituals into modern language and acceptable ceremonies. In 1973 his dream became a reality with the organization of Seax-Wicca, bringing Wicca into the public as a very positive force.  

What A Sect Is Not!

Kitchen Witch
This label pops up every now and then, but is often frowned upon as a derogitory term. More closely related to the Hereditary sect, these witches are practicing healing and ceremonies based on family tradition. "Old wives tales", Grandma's healing concoctions and special family traditions all make up this sect of the craft.. However, since these beliefs are often handed down from generation to generation, the label Heredity is more appropriate.
 
Pow-Wow
A mis-labeled sect, based in South Central Pennsylvania. It is based on a 400 year old German magick system and has deteriorated into a a simple faith healing. The mis-use of the term maybe offensive to the original practioners of a true Pow-Wow, the Native American nations. It is advised that this term remain connected to the originators and not to this adopted society. Even at 400 years old, the Pennsylvania/German system is new in comparison to the Native American beliefs. See "" for a further discussion of this topic.
 
Devil Worship
An important NOT!
Craft practioners do not worship "the devil", because pagan Witches do not belief in the devil. The misconception was mainly created by the Christian Church as a means to destroy Craft beliefs which were often preceived to be at odds with what the "Church" wanted spread across the world. Many detractors of the Christian faith often site this type of propoganda as an example of the "Churchs'" attempt to gain control over the people.
 
Satanic
An other important NOT!
Craft practioners are not Satanists. Satanism is also a pre-christian pagan religion, however there are significant differences between these two faiths. Many people often confuse Satan with the Christian devil. Again, this is due to Christian propaganda. Satan is the translated name of the Egyptian God Set, who was the deity of ego and confidance. These traits when taken to extremes are simolar to Lucifer and thus the association stuck. Satanists however, do not believe in the existance of the devil, and do not worship that being. They see themsevels as the God force and practice a faith of eye for an eye. If you'd like to learn more, I strongly suggest you visit the University Of Virginia's Religious Freedoms site and review their study on Satanism.  

[Tisha]

http://www.controverscial.com/Traditions.htm

this site contains comprehensive definitions of the types of witchcraft practiced today.

[Ceriel N]

In Swedish there is the word "häxa" derived from the German equivalent. It seems to be soly used ina negative manner, which I find kind of sad concidering our heavy reliance on herb-healers in that past.

In Finnish there is the word "noita", but the origin of the entire Finnish language is still a matter of debate, so it's rather pointless to look closer at it.

I think I'm going to research Scandinavian Craft a bit more. Certainly an interesting subject.

[Aristoles]

gothic craft?
Sounds a bit floomy.
Neverless,i wonder why so many new religions adapt the celtic way of nature.
And another jump from my past writings,i went to an Aesir belief site,and i had the biggest laugh of my life.
They added -ur to all names,Baldur,Odinur,Thorur etc.
I really hope there are more serious "Asatroers" out there,even though the concept of it is hilarious.

[Lilith]

Baldur is a valid spelling.
Thunur or Thunor is Saxon, also ligit.

Try Raven Kindred or Ring of Troth or Angelseaxisce Ealdriht... there's 3 responsible Asa related groups, just off the top.
[]

The 'concept' of it might be hilarious to you, I can't quite see why though... these people base their religious and spiritual beliefs on that of their ancestors, researched and documented.
Asa Tru (and it's near-cousins Vanu Tru and Anglo Saxon Heathenry, etc) is the only existing European spiritual system that is being worked from historical and documented roots.
What's funny about that?

... their magical work is pretty solid too, even though those aspects are reconstructed as much as they are descended.
tHey've got my respect.
<shrug>

[Aristoles]

Thats also one thing ive been wondering about,why do they call it asa"tru" instead of asatro?
I find it hilarious because i havent met anyone who takes it seriously.
If i do,i might change my opinion

[Ceriel N]

I think there is a blacksmith in Sweden who regards it as his religion...

As for why it is called "Asa tru" instead of "Asatro" (In Swedish you don't put spaces between two words when combining them in this regard.), I suspect it's just an English spelling of it.

In my opinion, the religion is no more far-fetched thatn Xianity.

Over here in Finland we however have the national epos called "Kalevala", and what should interest people here is that powerful sorcerers, witches and wizards are holding key roles in it. Kalevala is a quite a bit more 'down to Earth' than Asa tru, and might hold more than one grain of truth in its origin.
Would it not be interesting to study whatever magickal system they uesd back then? Especially if it has managed to spawn a whole breed of tales? []

[Lilith]

According to this Danish site, http://www.nenne.com/nordicway/index.html

quote:...
So when we today speak of asatro, asatru or Norse Paganism, we must be careful not to misunderstand each other--this because there are all different kinds of people who call themselves "Asatruars"--not even mentioning all New-Agers and suchlike that desecrate and abuse the Way by stealing and misusing sacred signs and practices in the same, most sacrilegious, way that they expropriate traditions and desecrate objects, places and symbols that are sacred to, say, native Americans.
...
First there are those who confess to and pay hommage to the Norse Gods--period--who leave out the "rest". By this I mean that they seem to have little or no place in their world for the other parts of "the Ancient Way"--the popular faith, traditions and culture as well as moral, customs, the spirits of the land and all those other beings and creatures that I cannot start to mention, mainly because there are no words for them in the English language. Many of these people you'll find outside of Scandinavia or the Nordic countries. They might live in the United States or Australia, but you might also find these people in the bigger towns and cities of Scandinavia. They therefore have little or no contact with said spirits of the land, the non-Scandinavians among them also, naturally, lack the natural connection to the "Ways" and popular faith of the Scandinavian people that have "survived" christianity. These people often define "Asatru" or ("Asatro" if they're Scandinavians) as a reconstruction of the faith in the Old Gods which, of course, is exactly what it is all about -- as far as asatru goes...
...
Finally, there are those who follow the "Nordic Way" or the "Ancient Way" . Confusingly, these people might also refer to themselves as "Asatruars" (or "Asatroende" in Scandinavia) "Pagans" or "Heathens", but have a different approach to life and the world they live in than do the others I mentioned earlier. You could say that both "Asatru" and "The Nordic Way" are founded upon the same basic values--tolerance, honesty, loyalty, reverence for nature and all life. Using the name Asatru or Asatro when speaking of the Way is however misleading, because the faith is not restricted to the Aesir Gods alone. There are other gods in Norse mythology and folk religion as well, there are the spirits of the land, there is the culture and the customs--the Way of the Nordic people. In recent times confessional societies have been formed in the Nordic countries, open to those who wish to restore the Ancient Way, reclaim their cultural heritage and honour the ways of the old Gods. You might recognize these confessional societies by name (with a few exceptions they're called something containing the word "Sed" or "Sidr"--meaning "The Way").

It seems the spelling is a regional thing... perhaps it's an Anglicization, I don't know, though it doesn't appear so...
Why don't you ask one?

[Aristoles]

Sounds reasonable

[Ceriel N]

Quite many of the old traditions still exist here, but as most people tend to take them as granted as sunrise we don't see them as anything different. In that regard, and concidering how few people in Scandinavia are actively participating in any other religion (such as Xianity), one could claim that the majority of Scandinavia is still pagan. []