and what proof could satisfy you?
~kakkarot
Hi,
I just wanted to explain my position on this:
The type or proof Orcher is asking for here would not prove what he is wanting proven even if it was delivered. If I could for example tell him what color his shirt was as he asked, all that would prove is that I was psychic or a skilled remote viewer, or even a lucky guesser, etc. I have never claimed to be any of these things. It would not prove that anything the aliens are trying to say is necessarily true. Many people who do not want to make their own decisions might indeed start blindly trusting the channelers or aliens based on such so-called "proof", but this is not what any of us want.
You really cannot ever actually prove anything. There is a lot of scientific documentation that supports much of what has been said about the pole shift. The scientific community has come to its own conclusions based on the physical evidence before the aliens began having these discussions. To me, this would seem to indicate that blaming the aliens is unfair.
The ideas that are passed along from these beings are merely for people to think about - not to be taken blindly as "truth". We have always said this. There is a lot of information out there, of both channeled and scientific nature. All we have ever asked is that people use their own hearts and minds to examine all of it, and then do what they feel is best. I see no crime in this. Thank you.
--Soulfire
You really shouldn't post novel sized text. Try and sum up your point, you're going to lose the interest of a lot of insightful people simply because all that reading gets boring.
Like Soulfire said, you cannot prove this stuff. Anything metaphysical is hard to prove.
You've mentioned your theory on the pendulum and that's fine, but there are cases where your theory runs into trouble. For example, pendulums are often used in conjunction with police investigations to help find missing people. How can a person's desire lead them to a correct location if they don't know where the person is?
Perhaps the reason the pendulum moves when you think about it moving in one direction is because that's the information it's recieving from your subconcious. When you concentrate on the location of a person, the information being recieved (from wherever) is then what your subconscious channels.
I hope that made sense, i can't seem to write it that clearly for some reason.
So, while you are saying there is no proof for what these channelers are claiming (which is true), you also haven't really given us any proof that they aren't actually doing it. It's still just your opinion, not fact.
Everybody has to make their own mind up about this, because no side can prove that they are right.
Actually Orcher, if you've ever been chatting with Mayatnik - a friend of mine chatted for 2 months with him - you'd find out that whatever Mayatnik is channeling - if he does channel anything - is perfectly clueless.
Mayatnik practiced 'cold readings' on my friend, time and again, revealing him so-called channeled information, as the chat went along and from what my friend told him.
My friend's opinion is that Mayatnik did this very consciously because of the way he was 'fishing' for info and using it, talking in the name of Karek.
This being said, Mayatnik is very sincere. He really believes that he's on a supra-important mission. He has 'good' intentions.
Orcher:
It doesn't matter that you are giving "permission" for your free will to be impeded upon. A true higher entity would never do that. If a person was standing by the ledge of a cliff and gave another person permission to push them off, the pusher would still be guilty of a crime. There are such things as morals and integrity that have to be owned by the person, and you can't disown the consequences of your actions because of someone else's shortsightedness. That's the difference between a positive polarity entity and a negative one.
It's like Oprah Winfrey once said to child molesters claiming "the child wanted the sexual encoutners"..."I don't care if the child is running around the house naked screaming, 'I want to have sex,' You are the adult! It is your responsiblity to say no. You don't hand your personal power over to a child"
And with all due respect, I have heard of stories of negs, demons, devils, whatever they are, creating "miracles" to gain the faith of followers. Start looking for truth in the heart instead of physical evidence...that's where the positive lies.
I'm starting to agree to Spectral Dragon...seek understanding, not knowledge. Without understanding, knowledge isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.
Hi again!
Are we a bunch of ignorance or what? 4 have replayed so far without understanding the meaning of this post. How come?
I will tell why. Because you have been for long in this forum working with spirituality stuff and so deep involved in unnatural topics that make you loose your rational thinking. And every single beautiful saga is posted in this forum is suddenly something divine without any critics.
I have been working with Astral Projection and believe on it. That doesn't mean that I can't criticise what other say.
It seems that many of you have misunderstood the meaning of my post. You see, I DO NOT SEARCH THE TRUTH. But if YOU claim to / have / know / feel / the truth, then that YOU should convince me about That in a rational way.
What I mean with rational way? Well... let me explain that for you in this way. I will mention some phrases which is NOT rational thinking.
• Listen to your heart!
// what a crap! What a crap! I'm so sick tired on this word. IMO those who mention these words, they don't know what they are talking about. When you make a decision you are actually using your rational thinking, that's it! When people can't explain the reason to that decision they have calculated by rational thinking so they call it "my heart told me". Isn't that pathetic?
• Follow you intuition, your inner-voice.
// read the text above. And I will add this. What is intuition for you guys? Its sounds something divine doesn't it? But let me tell you that it means INSTINCT. And instinct is something pre-programmed in your memory to help humans and animal to survive in nature.
An instinct doesn't think. It only knows because it already programmed there, and that make you think it's your "intuition" who calculated it for you.
So what is Inner-voice: How many off you have heard/felt an inner voice? Be honest!
Isn't inner-voice your own thoughts trying to separate from your own, by giving them own kind of personality? There are people who are very skill with that. Imagine that they are enjoying playing chess with them self. And some have evolved it to problem for them self ("obsession"," schizophrenia"). Do you really want to play with that?
So let's give you a better thought of how rational thinking work.
The only reason why you don't kill people is because you don't want to be killed/or get in jail one day. Though that there is murders in this world.
The only reason you don't robe/rap anther one is because you don't want to be robed/raped one day by someone else. Though that there is robbery and rape in this world.
The only reason why you do feel sorry for some, it because you remember times when you felt like them and that's hurt (you show compassion) that's why Saddam-Hussain's children were so cruel. (They never felt that feeling)
The only reason you love people it's because you want to be loved. That's it.
I DONT know what Heigher self is! proof that for me!
Zetatalk have predicted many many things wrong since their upcoming. Halbob was an alien ship? The poleshift in may 2003 was a "white lie". or wait for God sake, here....Have some balance and read these:
http://www.skepticalmind.com/zetatalk.html
And serach further in google. Have some balance. Dont be lazy! I promise you that the "GODS" and zeta wont panish you for that even if they were right. its your right to do that! and ONLY then you are (OPEN minded).
And please, please skip the crap! Don't tell me to define for you "What is PROOF", and the classic one "See it from another view", or "we have different interpretation"," What is the Truth". Don't philosophize too much. Be grounded!
PS: The "shirt color" was an EXAMPLE, maybe not the best example, but you get the point eh?.
so what proof would satisfy you, orcher? you say it so easily "give me proof" but you don't specify what constitutes hard, reliable, objective *proof* that you would accept.
as for the listen to your heart/soul things: i also believe that most of the times they are used they are crap, but there is some truth to them. the heart and soul have senses which go beyond the physical, though most people never learn to utilize them properly because they are too used to relying upon their physical senses. others never refine their non-physical senses and instead take anything they feel and improperly interpret from their senses, as being true: it's like touching a black burner that's been turned on, realizing it's hot, and then believing that anything black is hot (misassociation).
~kakkarot
quote:
Originally posted by Orcher
So let's give you a better thought of how rational thinking work.
The only reason why you don't kill people is because you don't want to be killed/or get in jail one day. Though that there is murders in this world.
The only reason you don't robe/rap anther one is because you don't want to be robed/raped one day by someone else. Though that there is robbery and rape in this world.
The only reason why you do feel sorry for some, it because you remember times when you felt like them and that's hurt (you show compassion) that's why Saddam-Hussain's children were so cruel. (They never felt that feeling)
The only reason you love people it's because you want to be loved. That's it.
I'm sorry Orcher, but I do not personally share
any of these reasons why you assume we all do or don't do these things. To assume that his is how
all people must think is (in my opinion) an error. Of course you feel everything I think is an error, too. I guess there is very little chance of us reconciling our differences, but that is ok. I still like and respect you and wish you the very best. I am sincerely sorry anything I have ever said has distressed you, as this was never my intention... :)
--Soulfire
quote:
Originally posted by kakkarot
so what proof would satisfy you, orcher? you say it so easily "give me proof" but you don't specify what constitutes hard, reliable, objective *proof* that you would accept.
Isn't that better to ask your self instead of what proof has satisfied you yet kakkarot? Or you maybe have blindly believed in what they say?
Let me give you a simple example what could be a satisfaction for me.
If you tell me that you are able to speak backward and make some sense of what you are saying. To check if you tell the TRUTH I will record your voice and replay it again in with a tape-recorder backward to see if you tell the truth. That will be a "Proof" for me kakkarot. Simple ha?
The is other things which will give some satisfaction, some of them is by giving you correct information and correct prediction, and concrete information ...For example by saying that Planet X is almost between sun and earth, and have the size 6 times of Jupiter. And it still doesn't shows up. Does that make sense for you? Or you want me to define "sense" for you either?
They claim that the sun make it hard to see the planet X. huh? Comon... any 12 years old boy who have been in school will know that the earth is rotating around the sun, so the planet X and earth will sooner or later (10 months/year) be in position to be seen in night AND day time.
Where are all those amateur astrodomes by the way? Are they also kept silent by the government to?
If you tell me that there is a planet X approached, and the pole shift will occur near 2012 which will bring catastrophic event to take 2/3 of earth population down to death. At the same time they claim to be here to help people and give them advice in zetatalk.com
Kakkarot please....take a deep breath and imagine what this means. They scare people to death and in same time they will offer them "help" to go through that? Don't you see any strategy in that? Doesn't this means: Attention please, listen to us, we are your savoir!?
When they predict event which never occurred, isn't that funny to Kakkarot. Or you have blocked that due to high concentration on their glamorous cosmic truth? Have you really read the link I gave you?
If you claim to have contact with guides, then following things should never have occurred:
* Once Fuzziwig told me that I have 3 Guids. Edi told me NONE. Funny ha?
* The zeta said there is Bigfoot on earth right now, and the reptilians said there is no one. When a member of this forum asked, how come? They answered very funny. (They brought you a bunch philosophy about the word "truth"). And Reptilians said that they don't share the some Data. Funny ha?
IF THEY HAVE CONTACT WITH MY GUIDE, then I'm thinking of a number between 934288727128 and 97132812293877161. What is the number? Ok, this is not a practical test. Because they just can't do that to every simple person on earth, but you get the point ha?
Show us evidence.
Show us pictures of planet X, (What does it matter, the government have pictures of planet X anyway right?).
Show us pictures of your space ship, let me analyse them! Let us visit it! (you have pictures and text on Zettalak..com right?), you have contact with Akashic records right?
Show us prediction (and then I mean TRUE one, not a black or "white lie", and not a spaceship is approaching earth as fast they get new news from NASA about a comet and trying to fool us by making it their own predicted event?)
A new example for that is that they claim that planet Senda is a caver up for planet X. Have fun....
quote:
I'm sorry Orcher, but I do not personally share any of these reasons why you assume we all do or don't do these things. To assume that his is how all people must think is (in my opinion) an error. Of course you feel everything I think is an error, too. I guess there is very little chance of us reconciling our differences, but that is ok. I still like and respect you and wish you the very best. I am sincerely sorry anything I have ever said has distressed you, as this was never my intention... :)
Dont worry Anthony, dont take it to personally. And Dont forget The cosmic FreeWill [;)]. I will have a chat with you later if you do like to. At the moment I'm searching the web becouse I'm considering to buy a parrot as a pet.
Hi,
Even CNN and MSN and other major news programs have broadcast information on the 10th planet and there is scientific information available about the pole shift that has nothing to do with the aliens. I know more is availalbe in scientific journals and publications. I never really watch this stuff, because quite frankly I personally don't really worry about the pole shift. When it comes it comes. I have been given a few basic strategies to help me deal with it when the time comes. I will deal with it in as simple and practical a way as I try to deal with anything else that happens in my life. There IS information out there that supports much of this, but instead of investigating it for themselves, some people choose to "blame" the aliens and channelers.
Do you believe in astral projection or any of the things typically talked about on this board? Where is the objective "proof" for these things? There was almost nothing said about APing 30 years ago - there was no data at all to speak of. Does this mean because it took 30 years to collect data (that incidentally still does not "prove" anything) that it is/was not "real"?
I could spend hours addressing each point that you make attempting to disprove what we do, but what is really to be gained? You don't NEED to believe any of this is true. You are in charge of your own life. You will decide how you live, and ultimately you will decide how and when you die. I don't know if you believe that you are in control of your own life or not, but I believe you are. You might read this information now and be angry or laugh at us, but maybe when the time comes, you will remember something that will help you. Who knows?
It's fine if you don't want to believe anything we say, but I feel it is unfair to accuse us of wrongdoing or telling us to "shut up" just because you don't believe us. And I feel many double standards are applied to the "aliens" that are not applied equally to many other things in life that are in their own way just as difficult to believe from a purely objective point of view.
I feel I have said all I can say on this. I cannot prove you wrong, nor do I even want to. Unless I have something else NEW to say that I feel will be in some way constructive, I do not plan to be posting on these topics in the near future. Thanks for listening and God bless... [:)]
--Soulfire
"Listen to you your heart" and "follow your intuition" are perfectly reasonable phrases. Many people spend too much time thinking and analyzing things with their brains. They spend too much time debating over decisions. Many people are not rational thinkers at all. And besides what is rational can be different for everybody.
"Listen to your heart" is just to remind people that sometimes you just need to do what feels right. I believe we have senses beyond the physical body. These senses can help us greatly if we listen carefully enough. That's what this phrase is on about. Listen to your senses. "Follow your intuition" is basically the same thing.
Now, kakkarot asks you what would prove to you that these channelings and aliens are legitimate, and you give him an example about somebody talking backwards. You seem to be running away from answering the question. If you want proof, you have to let people know how they can prove it to you. If you don't know, you shouldn't be demanding proof.
Anyway, i'm not sure what you hope to achieve here or why it's bothering you so much that the channelings could be fake. If you think that, fine, nobody minds at all, but do you really have to try and convince everybody? Everyone has their own path to walk, they will learn lessons either way. Let them learn.
Well, that's all i have to contribute, so i'll just say that i don't have any hard feelings towards you and i hope this issue doesn't consume you too much. Nobody knows for sure what is happening, not even the channelers themselves. We can't pretend to know either.
The only thing that discussions like these prove is that some people constantly feel the need to attack these subjects and some people constantly feel the need to defend them.
How much energy is being lost here in fruitless circular arguments? Are they really doing anybody any good?
Ok, that was the "Moderator James" seeking to bring a bit of balance back to the forums. Now a bit of personal opinion from just James the wanderer of spiritual paths:
I'll try and keep this to the point so I don't bore you all to tears.[:)]
Many of you probably know that I too had 'recieved' one of these Pleiadian guides. Gods know I talked about it enough.
Anyway, I felt quite ill at ease with the whole situation, despite the fact that I kept getting messages confirming all was on the level.
I was listening with my mind while my heart was sounding the warning bells!!
A talented and trustworthy medium burst my little alien's bubble just recently when she saw a true guide of mine standing beside me on two separate occasions. Second occasion my medium friend took the time to speak with this guide - a tall slender lady with long blonde hair, piercing blue/green eyes and long white robes. She seemed to be everything the Pleiadian was supposed to be to me - a 'teacher' guide, but here's the snag - when I asked what this lady's race was, she clearly replied "Saxon". Ok, well that's about as HUMAN as you can get.
I learned from a REAL spirit that my Pleiadian guide was not real, that it was a distraction. It seems that such entities that claim to be 'higher level' aliens are indeed lower astral entities, with no more, and indeed possibly less, spiritual understanding than we have.
It is quite easy for them to insinuste notions into your mind, keep you of the belief that they are higher beings full of love and light, and basically use you for their own gains.
The trick in catching these beings out is to NOT try and rationalise things with your mind, or accept their telepathic arguments as being true or not, or whether their WORDS do indeed strike a chord with you. It will also be of no help to you trying to seek confirmation from someone else who also has a similar kind of guide. There is every chance they will be under the same deception, and these beings will NOT betray one of their own.
Any vocal argument that appeals to you can have that 'feeling' of truth about it, whether its true or not. Only when we are totally devoid of any input from our egos can we feel what is or is not the truth in such words.
Use your intuition, use your instincts! This is fed to you by your higher self who NEVER lies to you. This is the gut feeling that ignores whether or not you like or don't like the sound of something, whether it 'resonates' with you or not. True intuition goes deeper than that, deeper than your emotions.
Now I'm not saying that all alien beings that might come to us are bad, so I don't want to see any back and forth arguments about whether all aliens are bad or not. I can only speak from my personal experience that I was decieved, and I consider myself fairly well in touch with my intuition. Well, I am, it was trying to tell me something was wrong all along, but the logical verbal arguments being presented were very convincing. These beings know how to distract us from what is real!
Don't fool yourself into thinking your above such deception - get confirmation, from both your higher self, which you should be getting to know well and truly BEFORE trying to communicate with ANY kind of spirit being, and if you feel unsure of things, even slightly, get confirmation from a reputable and completely impartial medium, not one of your mates who also has a guide.
This has been my experience. I hope it will serve as help or warning to any who would seek communications with any spirit beings.
Even when mediums train in their skills, they do so in circles with other mediums who can impartially confirm for them what they are seeing and hearing.
Blessings to all,
James.
Hi,
Well, let me just say this: I have never read anything James has written that did not seem sincere and insightful. I also feel James has a lot of valid points. I do not think anybody could go wrong by listening to his advice given here. No guide that was worth anything would object to your being extremely careful and even validating them with a neutral party. The closest thing to a quibble I have is to please be just as careful with any other spirits you consult about a potential guide as you are with any potential guides. I would take it a step farther and say if you have a gut feeling like James that something is "not right", to just listen to yourself and decline both the guide and the third party spirit you are thinking of consulting. If you have that kind of feeling, you do not need outside confirmation in my opinion - just drop the guide. Nothing that feels "wrong" is ever going to be what is best for you. Trust yourself. If you DON'T have such a gut feeling or sense of "wrongness", it still cannot hurt to get an outside opinion. My only question is, how do you really know that opinion is "right"? If you can answer that question to your own deep satisfaction, then you are on the right track towards what is best for you.
--Soulfire
James.
Do you mind if i ask you how it things are whit you and the green lady now, wasnt she who introduced the Pleiadian guide?
------
I think Orcher wants to proof that the zeta are not real, because he is in doubt, he doesn't want to let go it. Atleast thats what i think, i was like this for awile, its nice to have something to belief in, you want to hold on the it even when things are doubtful.
I try to keep to what i know (whitout losing an open-mind about things) and i don't know anything about alliens, I only see letters on my screen. Not much practical of it either.
------
ps.
a question how do you find this much metioned intuition or higher self?
To
Euphoric Sunrisequote:
"Listen to you your heart" and "follow your intuition" are perfectly reasonable phrases. Many people spend too much time thinking and analyzing things with their brains. They spend too much time debating over decisions. Many people are not rational thinkers at all. And besides what is rational can be different for everybody.
You really didn't know what to say here, did you?
quote:
"Listen to your heart" is just to remind people that sometimes you just need to do what feels right. I believe we have senses beyond the physical body. These senses can help us greatly if we listen carefully enough. That's what this phrase is on about. Listen to your senses. "Follow your intuition" is basically the same thing.
What feels right for me is what my brain has calculated to be right for me. Why are you trying to make it to a mystery? And right now, it feels like you still don't know what you are talking about. What do you mean by listening carefully enough? To who? I hear nothing inside me more my own thought. And neither do you!
quote:
Now, kakkarot asks you what would prove to you that these channelings and aliens are legitimate, and you give him an example about somebody talking backwards. You seem to be running away from answering the question. If you want proof, you have to let people know how they can prove it to you. If you don't know, you shouldn't be demanding proof.
And for me you seem to be running away from your self, your reality, and my entire post I wrote before!
Kakkarot DID NOT ASK what would prove to me that these channelings and aliens are legitimate. He asked what satisfy me as prove over all. And yes channeling is included.
FOR GOD SAKE Euphoric Sunrise, your AP profile tell me that you are from Australia, aren't you talking English there? And I wrote in English! Did you really miss my entire post? "talking backwards" example is an intro for people like you. The entire message after "There are other things which will give some satisfaction..." it's about proof, satisfaction, or call it what you ever want. So please go and read it again. And I mean READ it. And if you find nothing, then ask a friend to help you.
quote:
Anyway, I'm not sure what you hope to achieve here or why it's bothering you so much that the channelings could be fake. If you think that, fine, nobody minds at all, but do you really have to try and convince everybody? Everyone has their own path to walk, they will learn lessons either way. Let them learn.
By those words you said here, the first feeling I get when I read that was: You do either haven't any clue what is happening in this Topic, or you are kidding with me? Do you work with them or what? Why else did you say that? I'm confused.
However, let me refresh your memory again Euphoric Sunrise.
There is channeler who claims to have contact with Zeta, Pleiadian, and reptilians aliens and in same time they claim that there is planet X approaching, and the pole shift will occur near 2012 which will bring catastrophic event to take 2/3 of earth population down to death. At the same time they claim to be here to help people in zetatalk.com
Does this give you any clue why I'm here?
IF they are here to show us the "TRUTH", then I'm here to give you the "TRUTH" either by showing people how
all this is bulls**t as far as they don't give us convinced proof (even after that I will have some consideration about the their truth, this is not a game, we talk of big things). Why does it bother you guys? What's wrong with you? It's that YOUR right to demand that! Why are you so afraid to asking for that? Are you afraid if they are telling the truth, and you will be punished because you have questioning them? No you want be punished even if they were telling the truth!
STOP being sissy and DEMAND, That's it! Nothing strange with that! No philosophy, No beautiful saga! No cosmic bulls**t! Only concrete information and proof convince me! Or else beg them to go away and write a fantasy book.
YOU are not Open-minded when you accept everything without critics my dear. You are rather gullible.
If you
Euphoric Sunrise and other who don't like what I'm talking about, and want rather to hear them ONLY, I do much recommend you to click on the back button on your web browser and reading something else. Just because you don't like what I'm talking about, Why in the **** do you thing that all in this forum do that either? Why so egocentric Euphoric Sunrise? Isn't that good with some balance? Why does it bother you that I'm countering their "truth", and concerning people's right?
quote:
Well, that's all i have to contribute, so i'll just say that i don't have any hard feelings towards you and i hope this issue doesn't consume you too much. Nobody knows for sure what is happening, not even the channelers themselves. We can't pretend to know either.
Me to, after all i wrote I just love to say the same Euphoric Sunrise! Well, that's all I have to contribute, so I'll just say that I don't have any hard feelings towards you and i hope this issue doesn't consume you too much. Nobody knows for sure what is happening, not even the channelers themselves. We can't pretend to know either. [;)]
To
Soulfirequote:
Even CNN and MSN and other major news programs have broadcast information on the 10th planet and there is scientific information available about the pole shift that has nothing to do with the aliens. I know more is availalbe in scientific journals and publications. I never really watch this stuff, because quite frankly I personally don't really worry about the pole shift. When it comes it comes. I have been given a few basic strategies to help me deal with it when the time comes. I will deal with it in as simple and practical a way as I try to deal with anything else that happens in my life. There IS information out there that supports much of this, but instead of investigating it for themselves, some people choose to "blame" the aliens and channelers.
Well, where are those CNN and MSN and other major news programs information? Any web link? Any reference?
And all the rest you wrote doesn't matter Anthony.
quote:
Do you believe in astral projection or any of the things typically talked about on this board? Where is the objective "proof" for these things? There was almost nothing said about APing 30 years ago - there was no data at all to speak of. Does this mean because it took 30 years to collect data (that incidentally still does not "prove" anything) that it is/was not "real"?
You still don't get it, do you?
Anthony You are comparing My OBE with............. a channeler who claims to have contact with Zeta, Pleiadian, and reptilians aliens and in same time they claim that there is planet X approaching, and the pole shift will occur near 2012 which will bring catastrophic event to take 2/3 of earth population down to death. At the same time they claim to be here to help people in zetatalk.com
You see the difference in the importance of the proof? If I tell my friend that OBE exist, he will ask me to proof that. And I will answer I WILL TRY. I will try to visit your home at night and see what the face of the picture you place over the shelf is. If I'm right, He will simply believe me. If I where wrong. He won't believe me,
but both mine life and his will still goes on! But if I told him this (bear with my).... There is channeler who claims to have contact with Zeta, Pleiadian, and reptilians aliens and in same time they claim that there is planet X approaching, and the pole shift will occur near 2012 which will bring catastrophic event to take 2/3 of earth population down to death. At the same time they claim to be here to help people in zetatalk.com......
And what will this message do with his life? Let me tell you. It will change his life, his friend's life, his family's life, and all his surrounding.
This will:
Change/quit/move their JOB,
------------------------ Their habits,
------------------------ Their believes,
------------------------ Their economy,
------------------------ Their personality,
------------------------ Their surrounding,So imagine what if you all WERE WRONG? This will certainly bring something near 2012... And that will be a catastrophic life to those who believed you at least. The only thing that will approach them near year 2012 will be the big lie that has ruined their life for ever and ever!... Thanks to YOU and me who spread your message. Some time I wonder if you really know what you are playing with.
Do you see the importance in proof, convincing what you are talking about? (This is not only for Anthony; it is to you all who help them spread this dogma).
IF you really want to help us, then CONVINCE US. Show us proof. Don't be so egocentric by telling us... HERE IS THE TRUTH... IT'S UP TO YOU! IF YOU LISTEN TO US you may survive the pole shift, if not, then you have your own to blame at?
Would you do this for your parents of children if they didn't believe your message? NO. You will do your best to convince the, Believe me you will do! And by only spitting out some words and novel about cosmic map, and star, and philosophy isn't enough to convince the average man.
Do you see the difference between OBE and your dogma Anthony?
quote:
I could spend hours addressing each point that you make attempting to disprove what we do, but what is really to be gained? You don't NEED to believe any of this is true. You are in charge of your own life. You will decide how you live, and ultimately you will decide how and when you die. I don't know if you believe that you are in control of your own life or not, but I believe you are. You might read this information now and be angry or laugh at us, but maybe when the time comes, you will remember something that will help you. Who knows?
Is that in this way you are using to gain your faithful fans? By giving them a feel of guilt? Death, death and death, mentioning those words over 3 times to and in the end of the message you give me a feel of guilt again by telling me that I do better believe you or else I will regret every single word I wrote?.
You cold spend hours addressing each point with what? Nonsense and nonsense and nonsense to only fill the page with Nonsense to make you trustworthy and intelligent being?. Yes. I have learned your way to convince, Mayatnik(with all respect) is very good at that. Is't that by posting a huge massive inpute of text posts to drown us with overwhelming information to paralyse all critics? It doesn't matter how nice he formulate his words, doesn't matter how much he write (thought he claim to have poor sight?).
It does't matter how intellectual he is obscure words he use in his massive text posts. (I use my dictionary for every other word he use)
I will still questioning you, ask for proof, for convincing, concrete information and countering their words! Thats every human right.
quote:
It's fine if you don't want to believe anything we say, but I feel it is unfair to accuse us of wrongdoing or telling us to "shut up" just because you don't believe us. And I feel many are applied to the "aliens" that are not applied equally to many other things in life that are in their own way just as difficult to believe from a purely objective point of view.
You are now accepting me to be lost from your conspiracy and have to go to plan B?
What you really mean is... "FINE!! Don't believe us. Leave us alone. And don't stay on my to gain more gullible fans, and don't destroy our work since 1994!" right?
What is wrong Anthony? You are trying to SHUT ME UP, but in same time trying to fool the members here to make the drama look like I'm trying to shut you up? That's pathetic!
What happened to the Freewill? To give the people their own choice/option to choose?
What happened to the words like the people should be informed from all view. And not blindly believe in everything? How does this make sense? How would we believe in NOT blind believe if you cant questioning you, and demand after proof and concrete information?
What happened to the crying voice of that the government is trying to shut you up, AND in same time you are do the same thing with me?
Can't you swallow your own words?
And the rest you wrote there above about "double standards" and "Alien" is of what I meant nonsense
quote:
I feel I have said all I can say on this. I cannot prove you wrong, nor do I even want to. Unless I have something else NEW to say that I feel will be in some way constructive, I do not plan to be posting on these topics in the near future. Thanks for listening and God bless...
I feel I have said ONLY a fraction of what I have in my heart Anthony, and I mean it! The only way you can proof me wrong is when you proof your self to be right Antony. The time when you come here and show me all proof you have and convinced me like you can convince me that there is day and night in this earth (not like Sedna is a new cover-up by gov. you see, we were telling the truth). In front of all those who are in here and reading this now. I will then beg you my pardon and admit that you I have been wrong. This is to show you that I HAVE nothing to hide; I speak directly from my heart. No government bovine excrement and nothing else.
Thank you to Anthony. And I hope you are here to listen either! And may Prime Creator bless.... ;)
Hi Orcher,
We never said the pole shift was directly connected to 2012. In fact, quite the opposite has been said. We never advocated anybody sell everything, move to other countries, or do anything crazy. We have said that as the event moves closer, there will be many indications of what is happening (greatly increeased earthquakes, volcanoes erupting, tidal fluctuations, etc. that can all be scientifically measured). We have given information about locations all around the world which will have higher relative degrees of safety, without anybody having to leave their country or do anything drastic to get there. I do not have all the "links", because like I said I do not even worry about the poleshift. I did several simple internet searches and pulled up thousands of links though, so you can do the same thing. They are probably not all objective and scientific, but I am sure some of them are. And there have been reports I have read highlights of and seen references to scientific journals about how the position of true magnetic north on earth has fluctuated measurably a few times recently, etc. All this information is out there. That still does not "prove" all this is true, but maybe it gives a reasonable enough credence to justify simply becoming aware of a few locations close to you that would be more safe so that if/when you see some of these more severe geological and other signs that the earth's pole is changing, you can take reasonable actions? To the best of my knowledge, none of us has ever suggested anybody do anything crazy or make their whole life revolve fanatically around the pole shift as you are suggesting?
These concerns and fears you are talking about have nothing to do with anything we have actually said. In almost all the cases you have described, the channelers have in fact said something completely different, but people do not listen (ex: encouraging people to be practical, not to be afraid, etc.)? The pole shift is not even the actual "focus" of what these beings have talked about, but merely one aspect that has been sensationalized. My guides and the zeta have spent maybe half an hour total talking to me about the pole shift over the last year. And this was just basicly telling me to keep my eyes open, be aware of a few local places I can go when the time comes, and not to worry? Everything else I have talked about with them has been regarding general knowledge I am interested in or helping me to understand people better and love them more unconditionally, etc.
I'm sorry, but I feel you are very much misunderstanding what these beings are actually saying. Specifically, I feel you are focusing on a small sensational part of everything that these beings have said, drawn your own conclusions about these things that are contrary to much of what these beings have actually said, and then are blaming the aliens for your own conclusions even though these conclusions do not accurately reflect what they have actually tried to say.
Furthermore, I feel you are accusing me of all these things when I do not believe I have EVER personally said (or channeled) ANYTHING along the lines of what is actually upsetting you? And even if one of the other channelers does say something you don't agree with, that is not MY fault just because I happen to have a guide too? I take full responsibility for everything I write, but I simply do not see where anything I have ever personally written is "guilty" of any of the things you are accusing me (or my guide) of. Please feel free to re-read all my posts and show me where anything I have ever personally written could reasonably hurt anyone?
--Soulfire
Orcher, i don't mean to offend you, but i've grown tired of your attitude now. You're bordering on personal insults, which is completely unnecessary. I think you may need to calm down a little.
I'll thank you not to tell me what i hear inside of myself or to tell me that i'm running away from myself. You do not know me. Regardless of what you seem to think, you do not have universal knowledge and you do not know all there is to know about the human race.
I think you missed the point of a lot of the stuff i was saying, or you didn't get why i was saying it. You seem to be under the impression that i totally believe the channelings. I never said i believed everything that was channeled. I'm well aware of the follies of the channelings, and i'm well aware that things aren't always what they seem. I never claimed to know the truth. All i claim is that you don't know the truth either. Regardless of what you think, the channelings can provide positive information.
Some of the information provided in the channeling threads is well worth the read if for nothing more than reflection and consideration. I have learned from my experiences with the channelings things i would not have learned otherwise. This i consider to be a positive thing. It is with this idea that i defend the channelings.
I understand perfectly what you are saying in this thread. You're basically saying that the ET channelers who used to channel on this forum were fakes. You are saying they gave no proof of what they are doing, and you're saying that they have blatantly given you false information and lied to you.
What i'm basically saying in return is that you expect us to turn away from these channelers because you claim to know the almighty truth about what's going on here, yet your major claim that they don't have enough proof is exactly why i don't see why we should listen to you. You're doing to us exactly what you claim they have done to you. You have given no concrete proof yourself. So why should anybody listen to you either?
I'm also saying that there are some things that are better left to non-physical senses. Sure, i'm not the most fluent linguist, but i don't see how attacking me on my english skills has any relevance to your argument. You just seem to want to throw negative energy at me. James expressed what i was trying to say very well in his post. It is with these non-physical feelings that i think this issue should be dealt with. If you have a gut feeling that the beings are bad, then by all means, leave well alone. If somebody else has a gut feeling that the things being said ring truer than anything else, who are you to tell them they are wrong?
Now here's the most important part of my argument: it is fine that you don't believe these channelings are real. I don't have any problem with this. If it doesn't feel right to you, by all means take a different path. I wish you all the best. However, you do not have the right to discourage other people from exploring it. I can appreciate your situation, but i don't think you have any right to throw people off their own personal journey, especially in such a matter as this one. It's allwell and good stating your point of view for others to consider, but attacking the channelings like you have done, and even attacking those who have given you reasonable replies is going beyond providing your point of view.
Some people may read what you say and think that you have a solid post there. Then, whenever they so much think about the channelings, they will remember what you said, and they will see things in a different light. They might read the channelings and think that it's all a bunch of crap, like you seem to think. Because of this they may miss an opportunity to read what has been said, regardless of whether it has come from aliens or one of the channeler's next door neighbours.
Objectivity is very important in situations like these. Going into such an issue with preconcieved notions will probably result in 0 learning, 0 positive results. I believe your post could be contributing to those altered views and preconcieved notions. This is my main reason for still posting in it.
Tell me, where in those main points have i run away from the topic? Where have i not understood you? If you convince me that i have run away from anything i will gladly admit that i was wrong, and that the channelings cannot be viewed in any positive light what so ever.
Akensai,
This is what I was lead to believe. The Green Lady was probably the only real part of the whole deal. I have some thoughts that she was trying to direct my attention towards the true guide, while the Plieadian or whatever was distracting me from that.
Whatever the case, from a couple of substantiated facts, a fair ammount of hindsight, and a few good hunches, I've been left knowing that the Green Lady is real (I am but one of a number of people who've seen and spoken to this particular entity), this white (saxon) lady is real (as witnessed by another person), the pleiadian or whatever it was, was the fake.
Regards,
James.
Anthony. When I read you last post, there was something about accusing you. Its very sad so, becouse its absolutely not true. You know that I have nothing to gain by insulting you.
You see Anthony, English language is a bit limited when you use the word "you", it doesn't point to YOU as a single person, it can even be to many people. I'm trying my best to make it clear that sometime i say YOU and mean all (those who work with Zeta, Pleiadian, reptilians, poleshift, 4:D ascending) . So please don't take it personally though it can sound like that.
And to those who find me as a very mean/unpleasant guy. Please try to not. I'm not here to proof them to be wrong for you, couse its very hard to do that when they only talk in abstract way (not revealing any concrete information). but iam here to give you another view of them, AND MY OPINION IS, as far as they dont give us reliable proof, concrete information and relevant evidence. They are a bunch of frauds with a BIG conspiracy in their pocket. Anthony doesn't lonely bear all this dogma, so I'm trying to not pushing all the pressure on him. And unfortunately he is the only one in my thread to talk about it.
To those who are very convinced about the Zeta/poleshift, do not wish to hear anthing against them, and here only to judge me and not my posts. Then please remember this is MY thread, and I'm here to give anther view of them. CLICK on back bottom and do something else in your life.
Be objective and enjoy the reading....
quote:
We never said the pole shift was directly connected to 2012. In fact, quite the opposite has been said. We never advocated anybody sell everything, move to other countries, or do anything crazy. We have said that as the event moves closer, there will be many indications of what is happening (greatly increeased earthquakes, volcanoes erupting, tidal fluctuations, etc. that can all be scientifically measured). We have given information about locations all around the world which will have higher relative degrees of safety, without anybody having to leave their country or do anything drastic to get there. I do not have all the "links", because like I said I do not even worry about the poleshift. I did several simple internet searches and pulled up thousands of links though, so you can do the same thing. They are probably not all objective and scientific, but I am sure some of them are. And there have been reports I have read highlights of and seen references to scientific journals about how the position of true magnetic north on earth has fluctuated measurably a few times recently, etc. All this information is out there.
Yes you said that the shift will occur near 2012. That's for sure. I personally have asked when the pole shift will occur and get the answer about near 2012.
Swallow these... They have never advocated anybody sell everything, move to other countries and anything crazy. But in same time they offer you information about locations all around the world which will have higher relative degrees of safety, without anybody having to leave their country or do anything drastic to get there". Does this make sense?
The only reason of why you don't worry about the pole shift is because you know that's only a bluff? Could it be the reason? And by the way, why do you want inform people of saver places if it doesn't matter and people should not worry?
"You did several simple internet searches and pulled up thousands of links?" Correct me if in wrong.
By searching google with the words "earthquake", "tidal"," volcanoes", wont that giving you thousands of links? So what does that to do about the poleshift will occur near 2012? I need only ONE scientific link which convinces me that the poleshift will occur near 2012. Is that much asked? Anthony. You found 1000s links, you can at least give me one of them to convince me?
And here we go again.....the loop...
quote:
That still does not "prove" all this is true, but maybe it gives a reasonable enough credence to justify simply becoming aware of a few locations close to you that would be more safe so that if/when you see some of these more severe geological and other signs that the earth's pole is changing, you can take reasonable actions? To the best of my knowledge, none of us has ever suggested anybody do anything crazy or make their whole life revolve fanatically around the pole shift as you are suggesting?
I will summary that for you... What Anthony trying to say is When/IF the Poleshift will occur Then you better "take reasonable actions?".
In this state Anthony suddenly is not sure IF the Poleshift will occur at all. He just suggests people to take reasonable actions IF it occurs. But in same time of course he doesn't recommend you to do crazy stuff. Oh comon guys, 2/3 of earth population will die soon, why so eager of doing anything at all? Don't rush away, Relax! Everything will go fine. By the way, you maybe get ride of that neighbour who is annoying you ever night. So see it from the positive view!
Anthony: You still don't see the importance in providing us with, convincing, and concrete information. is it all about BELIEVE me of LEAVE me? quote:
These concerns and fears you are talking about have nothing to do with anything we have actually said. In almost all the cases you have described, the channelers have in fact said something completely different, but people do not listen (ex: encouraging people to be practical, not to be afraid, etc.)? The pole shift is not even the actual "focus" of what these beings have talked about, but merely one aspect that has been sensationalized. My guides and the zeta have spent maybe half an hour total talking to me about the pole shift over the last year. And this was just basicly telling me to keep my eyes open, be aware of a few local places I can go when the time comes, and not to worry? Everything else I have talked about with them has been regarding general knowledge I am interested in or helping me to understand people better and love them more unconditionally, etc.
Ye of course, damn me! Am so paranoid! 2/3 of earth population will die soon, that can be you, your family members, your friend, your lover, and your children, lost your house, your town, Job.
So why have fear for something like that? I'm so sissy sometime. I'm sorry guys.
Ps. neither do I fear dying. But that's doesn't matter. And that's doesn't mean that I don't care about other humans.
And just HOW would you encourage them by not being afraid of such thing? By listening to your Zeta and Pleiadian nonsense? That their soul will descend to the 4:D and there will be not more pain and suffering in earth and a divine peace between people for ever, were the "Service-To-Self" people will die and the those "service-to-Other" who choose to listen at you will survive? Doesn't this ring any WARNING bells back in your head my dear readers?
Anthony: It doesn't matter how much you have talked about poleshift, half an hour of all you life in this dogma or a minute. Even if you said a single word about Poleshift event you are accessory to the whole dogma.
What do you mean by that the poleshift is not the actual "focus"? I hope you are not kidding with me? One of the reason the Zeta are here, have been to help people through the poleshift. (Read the channeled logs again, it's there and clear).
And for god sake, What IS the WHOLE Zetatalk,com about then? Cooking?
"To let people to have their eyes open of what you say" it is the same way and the best way to let them be attached to your big conspiracy and only thinking about that day and night to ONLY associate every single events about volcanoes, tidal, earthquakes, terror attacks, misery at all....to what you say, and your conspiracy. Their whole life will circulate around that messages your broadcast, and in the end you will mange to let them view the world in that way you have seduce them to. They will see the world with new eyes (not sure for the best intention).
quote:
I'm sorry, but I feel you are very much misunderstanding what these beings are actually saying. Specifically, I feel you are focusing on a small sensational part of everything that these beings have said, drawn your own conclusions about these things that are contrary to much of what these beings have actually said, and then are blaming the aliens for your own conclusions even though these conclusions do not accurately reflect what they have actually tried to say.
You should not be sorry, because I have understood you and "those beings" very well Anthony, and I thing much better then ever.
There is no part of everything. All is bound together. It is like a pillar build of blocks. If one block of your dogma fall down, then may the whole pillar fall down. The gathered chain will burst!
If you have wrong in one thing, then you have wrong in everything, a very simple equation.
Why do you say that I'm making my own conclusions? Why do you say that I'm blaming the aliens for my own conclusions? This makes no sense Anthony. How did your figure it out like this.
It is because you don't like me to critic your dogma, don't you?
Could that be the same reason why zeta, pleadings, and reptilians left the Astral Pulse forum? Too much critics?
All I ask from you is to not predict false information, giving us proof, convincing martial, concrete information. I have repeated those word 100 times now. If you are right and sure about that then what's problem on giving me all this?
And if you still don't understand what I mean by "not predict false information, giving us proof, convincing martial, concrete information" I do recommend you to go back and read the other posts.
No philosophies like "What is the truth, proof for you" and "diffenets interpretation" .... I'm very sure that you understand what I'm talking about. To better have an idea of that would be to Imagine your self drown into court, and you have to proof your self telling the truth. It's very important to have proof of such thing before you broadcast message like this. This is not a fantasy book, this is not a dogma, believe, this is not a carton movie, this is something like creating havoc if YOU were wrong.
And IF this is true, Then your message is the most important message I have ever heard, and you are much welcome to spread that, and I will personally spread your words and help you. Do you see my point in those thread Anthony? quote:
Furthermore, I feel you are accusing me of all these things when I do not believe I have EVER personally said (or channeled) ANYTHING along the lines of what is actually upsetting you? And even if one of the other channelers does say something you don't agree with, that is not MY fault just because I happen to have a guide too? I take full responsibility for everything I write, but I simply do not see where anything I have ever personally written is "guilty" of any of the things you are accusing me (or my guide) of. Please feel free to re-read all my posts and show me where anything I have ever personally written could reasonably hurt anyone?
As I said before its very sad that you feel your self accused Anthony. It's much more important for me to give the members anther view of this and not letting them slip down in your gap of the depressed dogma without any proof.
What hinder bad intentioned people do the same and get advantage of that? Isn't what is already happening much around USA with those sects? There are MANY people who already couth in those sects, and many of them were much more sharp and intelligent then you believe. They are lost, and their life is ruined. Those sect leaders were with no doubt very fantasy full and trustworthy either. How else would so many been caught, all people are not stupid?
Iam very sure that many of them were so called "Open-minded"
Those sect leaders knew that there is peopel who need love,compassionan and hope in their life. and they gave them that in an illusory version.
Anthony I'm not claiming that I'm sure that this dogma is about bad intentioned sect, What I'm trying to say. What does your dogma differ/more credible from those bad intentioned sects?what make your dogma more credible then Mustardseed thread about CHANNELING GOD?
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9620
We are not talking of prediction you sow in your dream, that's impossible to proof! We are talking about Zeta, pleadings, reptilians aliens which are in more advanced technology then us AND they still can't provide us with ONE single picture for example or any other evidence. Isn't that pathetic?
And I really hope that you didn't feel accused by me again Anthony. To be honest I begin to feel tierd on posting about this subject without any success. It feels like it comes no where. and iam wasting my time.
Hi James
Who is the Green lady ?
Hi again Orcher,
We are simply going in circles and nothing constructive is resulting from any of this. Why do we give information about safe places around the world that anybody can get to without doing anything radical? So that if/when the time comes that people need it, they will know where to go. There is no sense worrying about anything in life, worrying accomplishes nothing. All we are suggesting is to spend an hour or so getting some ideas of where to go and become aware of some other minor preparations that may help you. One hour of your time - we have already each wasted 10x that here arguing about whether or not I am lying? If you don't feel the potential value of such information is worth the bother, just don't do it...it's that simple.
It is simply not my "job" to make you believe anything. And you make it sound like we are some kind of cult, or trying to get people to follow us. Well, NOBODY is following us, nobody is giving us any money or anything else of value? What exactly do you feel I am getting out of this personally? I spend 90% of my writing time trying to correct what I feel are misperceptions. Why do I feel you are blaming your misperceptions and self-drawn conclusions on the aliens? Because I do not believe you could quote any of the channeled material that supports any of the conclusions you have mentioned thus far, and if you did, I believe it would be something taken out of context that would not be at all supported by the remaining bulk of the material given.
And I do not have any bad feelings towards you, but I say the words "accusing" in response to your words such as "what you are doing is a crime", etc. I also feel it crosses the line between discussion and accusation when you publicly imply that I am deliberately lying to and deceiving people. And this I might add is done with no "proof" that you seem to feel is so important other than the fact that I cannot "prove" I am not lying. "Guilty" unless "proven" innocent.
I do not see where anything I am aware of any of the other channelers having written being guilty of any of the things you suggest. And the only material I have personally written about any of this pole shift stuff has been simply to state that I feel you are misunderstanding or ignoring the bulk of the material presented by others. My personal focus has nothing to do with any of this stuff, and neither has my guide's?
This whole conversation is simply not worth either of our time, nor is it probably worth the time of any other readers. Nothing productive is happening for anybody as a result of our invested time - at least that I can see. You seem to need to have the "final word", so please feel free to have it. Unless you present some quoted information from one of my posts or the channeled material (with links) that is harmful and which is not an "unsupported conclusion" of the reader that is not already answered in the remainder of the material, I am done with this conversation. If I don't answer your next post(s), it only means that I honestly feel the answer has already been covered. I don't expect you to "believe" me, and I certainly don't want you or anyone else "following" me. It is unwise to follow anyone. Do whatever you feel is right and Godbless... :)
--Soulfire
PS - I am happy to talk to you personally on MSN as friends like we used to, but not to waste time arguing about this. There is simply nothing else NEW to say. You believe what you believe and you have every right to. I honestly do not agree with your opinions, and that is also my right. Please, let us leave it at that?
Hi all!
quote:
We are simply going in circles and nothing constructive is resulting from any of this. Why do we give information about safe places around the world that anybody can get to without doing anything radical? So that if/when the time comes that people need it, they will know where to go. There is no sense worrying about anything in life, worrying accomplishes nothing. All we are suggesting is to spend an hour or so getting some ideas of where to go and become aware of some other minor preparations that may help you. One hour of your time - we have already each wasted 10x that here arguing about whether or not I am lying? If you don't feel the potential value of such information is worth the bother, just don't do it...it's that simple.
// No Anthony. It's not only about giving simple information if the time comes up. You have no idea of what people will do with such message as pole shift and destruction it will lead to as you broadcast. You have no idea of what goes in their heads after such message as that. They WILL do much about it, if they were convince that it will happen.
And why do you still say IF/WHEN now again? Are you starting to hesitate about the whole poleshift now? Isn't that enough to say WHEN.
Yes. We do circulate, and it's maybe because you still write the same episode over again?
It's not just about "spending one hour where to go". Imagine if the whole world was aware of this poleshift event near 2012 right now and they are very convinced about it, do you really think anything will be the same again? There is nothing wrong with that message if the message you spread is right and is proofed. But other wise it will be a disaster and global cause for many people if the message were false and we took you just by your words. That's why I'm emphasizing so much about bringing proof to the surface before you spread a message like that. The risk is enormous height, and very pricy to take your words just like that without any reliable proof.
Especially when it shows in the end that the message where a big huge bluff, nothing more. What would we then say?
I hope I made my self clear and you understand my point to end the circle here.
By the way, where is the scientific web link about poleshift which will occur near 2012 I asked you for in the last post? If you have it, post it. If you don't have it, please don't bother to replay.
quote:
It is simply not my "job" to make you believe anything. And you make it sound like we are some kind of cult, or trying to get people to follow us. Well, NOBODY is following us, nobody is giving us any money or anything else of value? What exactly do you feel I am getting out of this personally? I spend 90% of my writing time trying to correct what I feel are misperceptions. Why do I feel you are blaming your misperceptions and self-drawn conclusions on the aliens? Because I do not believe you could quote any of the channeled material that supports any of the conclusions you have mentioned thus far, and if you did, I believe it would be something taken out of context that would not be at all supported by the remaining bulk of the material given.
// neither have I said it is your job to make me believe anything. But it is YOU who came to my Thread which is about "Zeta/Pleidians/poleshift near 2012...." Topic and trying to "correct what YOU feel are misperceptions", about that, as you have said above. And no body have forced you to do that either. You are free to leave this thread when ever you like to.
YOU still don't get it Anthony. (It feels as I have said that 1000 times now). I really really don't care what you gain from this, or how much time you spend on it, or what you feel about that personally. That's not the issue. We are asking after reliable proof for the Poleshift event. I already mentioned how important it is. And that's it! If you don't have any, then don't bother to replay that I'm annoying you, or accusing you for this and that. Stop with this please.
quote:
And I do not have any bad feelings towards you, but I say the words "accusing" in response to your words such as "what you are doing is a crime", etc. I do not see where anything I am aware of any of the other channelers having written being guilty of any of the things you suggest. And the only material I have personally written about any of this pole shift stuff has been simply to state that I feel you are misunderstanding or ignoring the bulk of the material presented by others. My personal focus has nothing to do with any of this stuff.
You are much very wrong here Anthony. If the dogma is a bluff, then you are already doing a crime.
But if you are can provide us with proof, then you are an angle, a hero, you will save many lives.
I have already mentioned the grand consequences in people life by such message several times before. To give you an example of that, read this please:
A class action lawsuit is being prepared against Nancy Leider, the woman who ran the zetatalk.com website, on which she claimed to be channeling information from an extraterrestrial race of beings called the Zeta. For the past few years, the Zetas, through Nancy, have been warning anyone who would listen that Planet X was due to hurtle through our solar system, causing a pole shift on planet Earth and massive death and destruction. The Zetas had predicted that May 15, 2003 would be the cataclysmic date, but after that date passed with no upheavals, the Zetas changed their story, and in a strange case of backpeddling and circular non-logic, claimed that they had created the "white lie" of May 15 in order to protect people from their government. Huh? Anyway, now there are hundreds, or maybe thousands, of the Zeta followers who spent the past few years making "Life Altering Decisions" (according to the upcoming lawsuit) and they're taking Nancy Leider to court in order to get some restitution. Nancy Leider is also being investigated by the state of Idaho for various fraudulent claims and tax evasion, and by WIASA, the Web Investigations and Security Agency. When asked to comment on the lawsuit, the Zetas had no comment. URL reference: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/x.html
quote:
This whole conversation is simply not worth either of our time, nor is it probably worth the time of any other readers. Nothing productive is happening for anybody as a result of any of this - at least that I can see. You seem to need to have the "final word", so please feel free to have it.
Do you really thing that I will post so much text in every post just to have the "last word" Anthony?
Wouldn't that then be much better to post as little I can in every post to save more time to the next post?
It's not a challenging thread to have the "last post" nor do you need to post at all if you don't like to, you are here by your free will, and the thread may continue with you or without you.
quote:
Unless you present some quoted information from one of my posts or the channeled material (with links) that is harmful and which is not an "unsupported conclusion" of the reader that is not already answered in the remainder of the material, I am done with this conversation. If I don't answer your next post(s), it only means that I honestly feel the answer has already been covered. I don't expect you to "believe" me, and I certainly don't want you or anyone else "following" me. It is unwise to follow anyone. Do whatever you feel is right and Godbless... :)
Well then thank you for your time Anthony. Much has been revealed anyway. I do understand that it took much of your time. But you did that only by your own will. Thank you so much for your time.
--Soulfire
PS - It has been nice to chat with you those twice time we have been chatting yes. Neither then did I get any concrete information?
You may also believe what want and what you feel to, so do I. While you are spreading the message about this dogma, I will spread the "another" view of it. I hope it doesn't bother you.
And MY conclusion, and MY believe is that You have no convincing materials, nor reliable proof, nor credible story, but only a beautiful fantasy saga about Zeta, Pleiadian, Reptilians and big cosmic conspiracy which have been built on "peu en peu" since 1991 (I'm not sure about the year).
I will continue with this thread, i do like to hear other opinion please.
quote:
Originally posted by Orcher
Hi James
Who is the Green lady ?
Hi Orcher,
The Green Lady is the human manifestation of the spirit of our Earth - Mother Earth, The Earth Godess.
She has appeared many times to people through history, and there are references to her in English folk lore that are increadibly accurate regarding her description. I read about encounters with her in a book on natural magic some time after she first payed me a personal visit, and the description in the book was so like who I it sent shivers up my spine!
Before anyone asks, no I don't channel her. [:)]
I've met her face to face a few times, we've talked, I feel her presence at other times, and I follow a spiritual path that keeps me close to her. What she has had to say to me has just been for me.
Kind regards,
James.
xx
Hi,
As requested, I spent about an hour on the internet and found a collection of links to respectable sources that strongly support the pole shift idea. There were literally thousands of links I did not check that would probably yield much more information. As I have previously said, I do not believe you can "prove" something that has not actually happened yet, but this information from credible sources seems worth a look:
http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/PSResearch/PS_Precursor/possible_precursor.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/20/north.pole/
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/tech/0203/north.pole/popup.north.pole1.gif
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/07/poles.reverse/index.html
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_564525.html?menu=
--Soulfire
CNN credible?[:P]
quote:
As requested, I spent about an hour on the internet and found a collection of links to respectable sources that strongly support the pole shift idea. There were literally thousands of links I did not check that would probably yield much more information. As I have previously said, I do not believe you can "prove" something that has not actually happened yet, but this information from credible sources seems worth a look:
Anthony, those links have nothing to do with Zeta/pleidians/ predicted poleshift. In all those links I have read the information is about a "slightly" pole shifting which is totally naturally an occurs with the power of its nature (where the liquid outer core meets the overlying plastic mantle... they are even giving you the cause of that), NOT a suddenly 45 degrees earth angle change, caused by the Planet X approach witch will of course in that case bring the disaster and the catastrophic event in earth to mow down 2/3 of earth population. Again this is NOT a poleshift what you talk about, What you talk about is a SUDDEN ANGLE shift coursed by an Planet X approach.
You see the difference? You see, it seems like you picking up natural phenomena of the nature and trying to associate and construct them with your dogma and prediction. It's exactly like when you picked up the Hal-bop comet and tried to make it your own mystery (space ship). Even after that you they tried predict such events as May 24 2003. Do you remember the white lie? The white lie was only a backup for a wrong prediction. The idea came from the comet NEAT which passed the sun and was discovered in November 2002. (Search more info in google) This was excellent hook'n-up news to feed up their conspiracy as 100% accuracy.
To give and example for that read this:
Let's say I'm guy who want to create a conspiracy around something cosmic, the first I will do is to construct a so called "TRUTH" dogma. This will attract some attention both form curious and sceptical sort of people. But I still I have to feed up my dogma in somehow. And to do that, I have to "predict" things which I hope they hit the goal. But that's very hard though. So what I have to do is to create an illusory "prediction", this is easy done by being in contact with the first-out information source. For example NASA website is a great one. I will keep my eyes very regularly at NASA news.
When a sudden NASA news have been announced about something like an object approach to our solar-system theses will be my excellent feed up story to my visitor. So I will very directly try to write about it in my website as it was my prediction. The topic in my site will be like this: "THE TIME IS HERE – A spaceship will pass our planet in near 2009. The government will no longer being able to cover it up, so the news will leak very soon anyway."
Shortly after NASA has broadcast its message, the news sites will couth it up and will be well known news for almost everyone.
Let's say that I have 1000 visitor each days. And 10% of them visit me as the first thing they do before anything else, and maybe the only thing they do in internet. Those 10 will have the illusion to see me very credible with 100% accuracy thought the news is taken from NASA after what they revealed and not before (this will not be so obvious for the most) .
So suddenly they have caught 100 visitors' interest and credibility, and the dogma goes on to next "prediction".
Does this remind you of the cosmic dogma my dear readers? The May-2003 false prediction? The Halebop spaceship prediction? The NEAT 2002? The Sedan "cover-up" for planet X? The Maya calendar 2012?
The story keeps on based on the Maya calendar 2012 ...The Maya calendar is true as only a calendar which end year 2012, but again the conspiracy take advantage of everything in this earth to convince you that is the "grand cycle end" of earth.
Thank you for the links Anthony and the hour you send on. I really appreciate it!
But I spend only 1 minute to find all those links as a balance of the cause to the pole shift, which is of course Planet X.
NASA website:
http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question4.html
This will reveal for you the whole BIG conspiracy real.
http://www.skepticalmind.com/zetatalk.html
An excellent site to deep though.
http://www.metatech.org/planet_x_nibiru_earth_changes.html
A look at the Science behind Planet X. Great site!
http://www.planet-x.150m.com/
Very easy to follow site where they analyse the dogma.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/Planet-X.htm
Oh. I almost forget ... don't forget to check out this link to: http://www.planetxvideo.com/planetxvideo.htm [:D]
--- To James
Any URL about The Green lady?.
Hi...I'm new to this forum but have read alot about the predictions for the year 2012 as well as the Pleidians. My beliefs on the subject are that we as human beings need to raise our consiousness or vibration levels to accomodate the earth's changes in the next 17-20 years. I believe if we do this then we will be more physically capable of handling the earth's changes. I don't think that the earth will be destroyed but there will be changes for those that want them. Those that do not will remain as they are today living on earth...dealing with 3rd dimensional life as we see it.
Those who choose to raise their vibrations shall be more of a free spirit to travel from dimension to dimension at will and have a more harmonious, and beautiful earth to live on.
In order to do this we MUST learn to love one another and all that is. This comes from the heart and mind. "You must look within"- means that you must quiet all thoughts that are incoming from the outside and listen to what's inside you, there lies the beauty and the answers to what is true and real in this world. Trust and belief in your inner self. No more judgement, or hate...no more letting the ego run your thought center.
It's your choice...to live as we see it today...or to live on a new changed earth where you won't have to do anything but live in peace and harmony.
Peace to all
(The bulk of this letter is NEW material and not just a re-hashing of everything that has already been said.)
Hi,
I don't know what else to tell you Orcher? It is my understanding that the magnetic pole shift is caused by a shift in the mass of the earth's core. Gravity from other planets affects this, and as planet X gets closer the gravitational effect from this will slowly increase. You are asking me to "prove" it is going to rain before it happens, and I have maintained that nothing can be proven before it happens. All I can point to is the cloudy sky and the barometer that indicates the atmospheric pressure is dropping. That does not "prove" it will rain, but those things usually happen before it rains and support the likelihood of it raining.
Another example: Think of the pole shift where the earth is like a giant catsup bottle. The earth's core is moving due to gravity fluctuation similar to a bottle of catsup that is held upside down, but the catsup does not all glop out right away. You are asking me to "prove" all the catsup is going to suddenly glop out before it has happened. The links I referred to are like seeing the catsup begin to move ever so slightly before the big glop. You still cannot "prove" the catsup is going to glop out suddenly, but that doesn't "prove" it is not going to happen either.
Again, I never asked you to believe anything I (or the others) have said. You call all this "my dogma", but I have never even talked about the pole shift to you or anybody else until you asked me in a personal conversation and started this topic. I have never claimed to be "right". I even use a signature file that clearly states everything I write is merely a reflection of my own personal beliefs. How is this "my dogma"? My only personal claim to date has been that I feel the material is worth considering for people who are interested and maybe it's worth taking an hour or so to become aware of some relatively safe spots close to you, etc. I have suggested against making major life changes or being afraid, etc. And again, I didn't talk about any of this stuff until you specifically asked my opinion.
I keep asking you to show something that I have actually written that is harmful: a quote that is not taken out of context, or indeed anything I have said about the pole shift before you asked me my opinion...and of course you cannot do this because I never talked about the pole shift before you asked me. You apparently cannot even quote anything harmful said on Zetatalk that is not an "unsupported conclusion" drawn by a reader that is taken out of context and which is also in opposition to the remainder of the material published there. I am not even invloved with Zetatalk!?!? You keep talking about "proof"...where is YOUR "proof"?
We are each responsible for our own reactions to the world around us. If the aliens told me about the pole shift, and I went and sold everything, left my family, and moved to a place I thought was safe all alone on a mountain and spent the rest of my life feeling terrified, then that would be MY RESPONSIBILITY and MY CHOICE - not the alien's or anybody else's...especially when the aliens strongly advised against anyone doing anyting like this.
What is there to gain by blaming other people for our own choices? That is very disempowering, and frankly it seems to me like a very sad way to live. Yes, you can blame me or anybody else for anything you want I guess, but that does not mean that you are "right". You seem to have a very low opinion of people: assuming they are unable to make their own decisions? This belief alone is probably more "harmful" than anything you have accused the channelers or aliens of (in my opinion)...
--Soulfire
Moonbeam,
Welcome to the forums [:)]
That was a lovely post - well worded and with good wisdom.
"Trust and belief in your inner self. No more judgement, or hate...no more letting the ego run your thought center."
- This part I particularly like.
Well said![^]
Kind regards,
James.
Thanks James!
actually orcher, i asked you what proof would satisfy you in this specific instance that you are rambling about. instead of this anthony guy going "here's proof" and you going "nope not good enough" and him going "ok, here's some more proof" and you going "nope still not good enough" and him going "ok, here's some more proof" and you going "nope still not good enough" and him going "ok, here's some more proof" and you going "nope still not good enough" ad infinitum until he hits upon something that you'll accept as proof, why don't you specify what kind(s) of thing(s) you'll accept as "proof" so that anthony isn't wasting his time trying to give you proof that you won't ever accept.
you seem to be a very stupid person, orcher. not once did i say anything about believing, let alone blindly believing, anything that mayatnik or anybody has to say about anything and yet you tell me i'm hypnotised by their glamourness? you say you are using english, but i think you need to study it more.
~kakkarot
Kakkarot, I don't think there is any need to make nasty comments about fellow members.
Anthony and his colleagues haven't offered any proof what so ever thus far. When you make outlandish claims such as they have, proof to substansiate the claims is hardly asking too much.
By the very nature of this site, it should attract open minded spiritual people. It is the least spiritual of all I have seen. It has a odd vibe about it.
xx
Hi,
While Orcher and I do not agree on many things, I have talked with him quite a bit and consider him a friend. He is certainly not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. Also, Orcher is right when he sais I have not offered actual "proof". I never even claimed to offer "proof", but merely some supporting data.
I do not believe it is even possible to "prove" something that has not actually happened yet. Where he and I differ is that he believes a lack of "proof" proves I am deliberately lying: guilty until proven innocent.
The problem with "proof", even if it were give is this: There are a LOT of people in the world today who simply do not want to think for themselves. How many people do you know who let the media, government, or other people think FOR them? Imagine for a moment if the aliens did give undisputable "proof" of their existance at this time: showing up in a space ship over a major city, letting one of the human contactees publicly display undisputable psychic powers, etc. Two things would happen:
1) Some people would become very VERY afraid. I think many people would even become violent towards known contactees, including certain elements of the government. Think of the people fearing alien invasion, armageddon, anti-christ, etc.
2) Many people who do not wish to think for themselves would become "followers" of the aliens or contactees. Many people would be polarized between either being very afraid or becoming blind "followers" of them. Neither of these developmentws would be particularly helpful to mankind.
Imagine what the world would be like a few days after such undisputable "proof" was common knowledge. Imagine what life would be like for you and your family if you were a publicly known contactee after this happened. The way things are now, we can talk and people are free to just ignore us or make fun of us. The people who are ready will hear us and think about what we say without becoming "followers". Some seeds will be planted, so that as things slowly move forward, people will remember what they need to remember when it becomes important for them to remember - even if they just laugh now.
And none of us ever said "believe us or leave us" as some people seem to think. We have always simply asked people who are interested to listen to what has been said and think about it. Your higher self will always lead you to whatever you truly need to know when you need to know it. You do not need the aliens or contactees even if all this is "true". We are but one channel of information that some people may find helpful. Many other people will not find us helpful at all, and there is nothing wrong with that... :)
--Soulfire
thank you soulfire, for explaining a side that too few people seem to understand (but seem quick to attack :/)
whitelight: i was mean to orcher because he made up a thread attacking people and saying they've given him no proof when he hasn't even asked for any. should i give him proof of stuff i've been through, though he's not asked for it? that's one of his logical fallacy which makes him appear very stupid in my eyes.
he whines about them not giving him proof, and my original point was to tell him that he should ask them for something that would constitute proof to him. just because i posted it in a semi-roundabout manner doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to think about it. and the part about him saying i've been mesmorized by people i've not even talked to was just rediculous (and no, he couldn't have known that i've never talked to them before, which makes him even more retarded for just up and assuming i have). i was posting as one who cares about logical discussions and eventhough he didn't know my reason for posting, for him to just up and say i've been beguiled by them is purely imagination.
certain types of people really get under my skin: people who attack others with no logical basis or arguments on their side are one of those types.
~kakkarot
xx
quote:
Originally posted by MJ-12
Seriously though. A website with a private forum might really boost your success at channeling. The problem is making sure to come out once in a while to accept criticism and normative dissonance.
Hi,
I really don't have a problem with
this format. I have no expectations, so I don't mind criticism. I do pick up some emotional garbage when people get angry or abusive, because I am a little oversensitive, but I know how to quickly let go of it. When things start going in circles, I feel like everyone's time is more or less wasted, though. There is no joy for me in posting when this happens. As long as something NEW is being discussed, I am happy.
To be honest, I strongly prefer discussing general spiritual content rather than so-called "alien" related information. I don't even think of my guide (or the Zeta) as "aliens" most of the time, and the things we talk about together are almost never topics you would associate with "aliens". To me, they are just like very insightful, spiritually oriented friends.
As for boosting my success, I guess that depends on how you
define success. I guess I could certainly be more popular surrounding myself with only people who agreed with me, but then what possible good would I really be doing? I know many people don't think I am doing anything good anyway, but as long as I personally feel good about my own efforts, then I feel successful... [:)]
--Soulfire
Orcher I think I know what you are getting at. You are saying that the chanallers are being irresponsible becuase they don't provied proof so that people that do belive will know for sure that this is going to happen and that they are not just wasting their time when it turns out to be fake.
Well, the stupid people will jump up, yell and run around in circles becuase they are gullible. The more objective person will take the information and put it to later use should something like this happen. The person that went to extream measures, well that was his free choice based on information that he had heard, it is no different then someone hearing a rumor off the street and the person doing the same thing. It was still there choice. I think you are taking it a bit far, which has caused all of the channallers here to stop coming to post, some from you (at least I think so) and others that have critisied them to the point that they feel that they no longer have to 'waste' our time.
I hope this is what you were talking about, now for my side of this.
"Proof" First you need to look at the definition of proof. Proof is only an objective anwser based on the information present, since there really isn't that much information to back up any of the channalers claims as of yet they can't be proven. But if they are correct, then for proof all you need to do is look around you. Haven't you noticed that the weather has been screwed up for some time now. Not to mention that the fact that like Soulfire says the planets are getting warmer, I think I reamember a news article about that. Though all this could just be coincedence it sure seems to many things happening like this could. You say you OBE, well do you do any sort of energy work. I myself do a little and I am very in touch with nature and the planet gives off a different feel then it did.
I hope that this helps you find what you are looking for. As they have said, they don't have to provide you proof, you must look for proof within yourself.
Hi,
Well, the weather is really getting beautiful here. It has been a long winter, and my soul feels very drawn to enjoying the soothing and rejuvenating wonders of the outdoors. I will still stop in every week or so to see what is new, but until the weather gets either too hot or too cold to be outside a lot, I plan to be enjoying nature for a while instead of the computer. I just wanted to let everyone know why I will not be around as much for a while so that any of you who might have been inclined to worry about me will know there is nothing to worry about. I love you all and will see you soon... :)
--Soulfire
Hi all. I haven't been able to report your comments because I have been on "vacation" (without internet in 4 days).
Nice to see you all again, and great thanks for the posts you have contributed. EXCEPT...The following arrogant member kakkarot, so lets analyze him.
quote:
You seem to be a very stupid person, orcher. not once did i say anything about believing, let alone blindly believing, anything that mayatnik or anybody has to say about anything and yet you tell me i'm hypnotised by their glamourness? you say you are using english, but i think you need to study it more.
kakkarot: Would you have said those words if you were in front of me and looking me in the eyes ? Would you?
You feel quite secure behind your monitor and in miles from people you post to, don't you?thank you soulfire, for explaining a side that too few people seem to understand (but seem quick to attack :/)
"side that to few people seems to understand" WHAT'S THAT ? WHAT IN THE *** is that?
Who elected you to those "few intelligent" people? Does anyone here remember any election I have missed?
That side that too few people seem to understand could very easily said to be the side which is much wrong also. Have you thought of that Your Grace "light head", or you maybe to arrogant to bother your self with that thought?
And we keep on...
"but seem quick to attack :/"
What is that? Are you trying to play the "modern Open-minded" guy?
Are you trying to play the role of the legend that defended the new "oppress" system in the 2004 or what?
What's that "attack"? How did you made it to an "attack"? kakkarot Do YOU have lack of words in you vocabulary depot or what? This year is my 3: d year I'm learning English and my English seems to be better then yours? Thought it's very poor. How come?
READ MY POSTS AGAIN! READ IT AGAIN!! Try to figure out with your "arrogant head" that I'm NOT attacking anything. We are discussing. It's very important to do that. To have another view. To have some balance?
quote:
whitelight: i was mean to orcher because he made up a thread attacking people and saying they've given him no proof when he hasn't even asked for any. should i give him proof of stuff i've been through, though he's not asked for it? that's one of his logical fallacy which makes him appear very stupid in my eyes.
You poor little cutey [:(]. You were mean to me because I made up a thread attacking people?
Why didn't you run to your mother and asked her for a BIG BIG hug and asked her for comfort? [:X]
Wouldn't that feel better then telling me that I'm "stupido"?
[:D] Hehe. You sound very cute for me. How old are you? However sweethearts, try to clean your mouth and behave your self before you wrote to people.
quote:
he whines about them not giving him proof, and my original point was to tell him that he should ask them for something that would constitute proof to him. just because i posted it in a semi-roundabout manner doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to think about it. and the part about him saying i've been mesmorized by people i've not even talked to was just rediculous (and no, he couldn't have known that i've never talked to them before, which makes him even more retarded for just up and assuming i have). i was posting as one who cares about logical discussions and eventhough he didn't know my reason for posting, for him to just up and say i've been beguiled by them is purely imagination.
What are you trying to say here ???? [:D][:D]
quote:
certain types of people really get under my skin: people who attack others with no logical basis or arguments on their side are one of those types.
With that big buffoon arrogant head you have, how does it feet in your room? WHO ARE YOU, AND WHO CARE ABOUT YOU PATHETIC FEELINGS? I really don't give the damn sh*** what going on your weird head and under your skin.
kakkarot You seem to me very gullible poor little guy who try to find his personality and place in this forum. relax!!
5 red stars and 1748 posts? For god sake get out and have some contact with humans eye to eye (except your mother) AND in real life, handle that at first before you try to have contact with other in the internet behind your monitor.
How does it feel now kakkarot ? Does it feel good to be offended? Do you look like him --> [:(!] or him --> [V] .... haha but i much believe that you look like him now --> [xx(]
[:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]
Lets be more serious.
To all those who already rose up the "moral police" aspect and are very ready to replay to this post concerning my words to kakkarot. Read this.
The reason I wrote this posts to kakkarot is to show him how unnecessary it is to use such offending words like "very stupid" and all other nasty words. I don't know how old he his, and if he really did get the right education of good behaviour both from school or/and parents which is very important in my opinion, it still important to mark it up. And for this moment I gave him the same feeling he tried to broadcast. And I hope he have learned anything by this.A more mature explanation why kakkarot shouldn't use the word "stupid" its because THERE IS NO "STUPID" people in the world! There is ONLY propel with much or less life experience, right/wrong brings up, right/wrong education, much or less trustworthiness in human treatments and MUCH more we really don't know much about yet, life is very complex.
Me and Anthony have exchange over 10 posts with each other and never used any offending words to each other. Thought we have totally difference opinion.
-------------
To Anthony. Do you mind to resume the conversation again?
Again excuse my poor English.
Orcher, is there a point to all of this?
quote:
Originally posted by James S
Orcher, is there a point to all of this?
Yes there is!
Read the second bold part of my post (again) please.
ie from:
To all those who already rose up the "moral police" aspect....AND if you still dont get the point, i will write another post to explain further how important it is to make clear for those arrogant persons who try to offend other in anyway, what they do is very unwanted behaviour. And In my opinion, the best way to do that is to give them an mutual feeling of thir behaviour.
An "eye for an eye" hmm?
Would it not be more beneficial for everyone involved to maybe NOT keep the hostilities going?
Besides, my question was not about your dissagreement with Kakkarot, but the theme behind this topic in general.
Is there a point to questioning all of this?
It has been done before ad-nauseum, and all we end up with, despite the initially good intentions, is circular arguments, factions and hostilities.
There's been enough of that on this site already. I would suggest that in the interests of keeping peace on this site, this line of argument perhaps gets dropped.
James.
yes, orcher, i would say those words to you if i were looking you in the eyes. i've done it to others.
and the reason why? because i really do see them as stupid. and yes, there ARE stupid people in this world. to believe otherwise is to believe that we live in a fantasy world where you believe that certain "bad things" don't exist simply because you can't handle the fact that they do (ever heard of IQ's and the bell curve?)
i'm not being nice to you. i don't care to be nice to you. and i've already explained why. it's not because i don't know how to be nice, it's because i've made a conscious decision to be a jerk (and yes, jerks exist too).
~kakkarot
zz
sTupidity should be painful, love peoples.
O My God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee. And I destest all my sins because of thy just punishement, but most of all for having offended thee my Lord, who art all Good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of thy grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.
AND THE TRUTH SHALL BE KNOWN - You'll see !
No. I haven't seen any truth yet!.
Hi everyone!
I'm very sure that many of us who have been active in the Prophecy, Divination & Communications section do also recognize words like Zeta, Pleiadian, Plant X approach, fotonband, and the Poleshift which will bring the mass destruction of almost 2/3 of earth population around 2012. And of course we still remember the channelers with name MAYATNIK, Edi, Fuzziwig, Anthony.
I have been following their post in this forum since the fist Pendulum post. I have been practicing with it over and over again without any success.
My conclusion about the pendulum is following:
The only thing I have learnt from about the pendulum, it is that is a great trick. Yes a trick and nothing more. It works in a way that it gives you what you already know, or what you want to it to give you.
For example: If you know that it is sunny outside, and you ask the pendulum if it is sunny outside. You will subconsciously move it in a way you have decide the movement as a yes.
There is anther way to check if you are fooled by your self or not. Try this:
Hold your pendulum in the way you do. And try to imagination movement of the pendulum in any way you want it. YES, NO or Circling clockwise or anticlockwise. You will notice that it will do whatever you want it to do. AND NO! There is no spirituality with it. You are doing it by your self with your will (with very small impulse from your brain).
So back to the Pleiadian/Zeta channeler.
How do we know if they are telling us the truth? How do we know if they are not bluffing the whole channelling? How do we know if the whole is not more than a big planed conspiracy?
Well...I have been long waiting for them to give us some concrete information or any proof, but unfortunately without any success.
So one day (2004-04-06) I was in MSN chat with Anhtony, which is one of those who channel a Pleiadian guide. (Before that day I was in chat with Anhtony and Edi talking about the pendulum and Guides.)
As usual, I didn't get any concrete information from them this time either; but there was something else which I do like to share with me. And that is a conversation between me and Anthony about their credibility.
You can skip the conversation if you dont have time to read all that, and jump directly to other posts.
I didn't change anything. As you see you have to excuse my poor English cause I'm not an English spoken guy.
Orcher - maroon colour is me!
Green colour is Anthony the Pleiadian channeler.
There we go...
_________________________________________________________________
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.
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Orcher säger:
And i have not been totaly honest with you.. To be more honest .. i have to say ..its not a lak of patience.. its more a lak of faith of what you are talking about.
Anthony säger:
That is fine too. You should never have faith in what another person sais...just do what is right for you.
Anthony säger:
To the extent that you know you are doing that, then you are doing the right thing for you at this time.
Orcher säger:
Yes. For so far. i have made my mind. and my conclution (from my own view) is that you all are playing a game with us. OBSERVE. ( this is my opinoin)
Anthony säger:
Ok. Well then I would understand if you no longer wish to talk with me, because if that was true I don't think I would want to talk with me, but I hope maybe we can still be friends. I am sorry you feel that way about me, but I can't over-ride your opinion and feelings.
Orcher säger:
Its just that.. when you get fantacy story without proof. 3
.
.
Orcher säger:
I hope .. I really HOPE that you dont play this game with peopel ( IF you are playing it)..... But my hope wont make any diffrent... becouse you are already playing it... but you could at least stop with it you want to.
Orcher säger:
When i talk to you and Edi and Mayatnik.. .. you see.
Orcher säger:
I can never imagine that you can be those kind of guys who play such a game with peopel..
Anthony säger:
*nod*
Orcher säger:
But this wont tell me that you ARE not playing it.
Anthony säger:
I am curious, what exactly made you finally decide we were not being honest?
Orcher säger:
Peopel are very good in mimic the "good peopel"
Orcher säger:
Its hard to sum all data.. but lets try bit by bit
Anthony säger:
*nod*
Orcher säger:
btw ...whats *nod*
Anthony säger:
Nodding my head...trying to show that I am listening even when I do not have anyting to add to the conversation yet.
Orcher säger:
OK
Orcher säger:
so...
Orcher säger:
To sum all your posts.. Edi.. Maytanik...Fuzziwig.. And even the whole Zeta Talk website.... NOT a single word..
Orcher säger:
have been the kind of [concrete] information...with other word.. Its like written fantacy book.
Orcher säger:
What you say.. can even i say that..
Anthony säger:
It's ok, go on.
Orcher säger:
Its just beautiful words.... you give peopel what they want to hear..
Anthony säger:
Dont worry about offending me please, I know you are only honestly expressing how you feel and please dont worry about english...if I fail to udnerstand something I will ask you for clarification.
Orcher säger:
You play the rool of knowing much ...by the huge massive information. in a stylish EXCELLENT formulated english....
Orcher säger:
No i dont worry about that.. couse you know already that iam very objective
Orcher säger:
So..Anthony... Of that you and Mayatnik and all channeling.. what does it differ from a very good written fantacy book ?
Anthony säger:
Well, I will focus primarily on the material I personally have "channeled" for now, is that ok?
Orcher säger:
Well....
Orcher säger:
Lets try to explain it in this way....
Anthony säger:
ok
Orcher säger:
You see. when jesus came to earth... He talked much in the beginning ....
Orcher säger:
Some loved what he said...and some hated it.. NOT becouse he talked in offensive way to someone.. Its just that HE TALKED MUCH...
Anthony säger:
ok
Orcher säger:
But that stage is the worst one..... becouse.. In stage is limied of time.... either he show up some miracles.. or he have to go down. And he knew that there is much peopek waiting for confirmation. or else he will go down.
Orcher säger:
Its like playing poker.. ( you cant bluff for ever).
Orcher säger:
Orcher säger:
If you understand me.. i explain very clumsy ..
Orcher säger:
due to my poor english language
Anthony säger:
Well I am obviously not Jesus, and I certainly never claimed that I was going to perform miracles. I hope I never accidentally gave that impression?
Orcher säger:
No. neither did i claim you that you or other channeler where..
Orcher säger:
But yours messages have same weight like his.. and if not bigger. You claim to have contact with Guids.. who should know much like WHAT THE COLOR OF MY SHIRT is now..
Orcher säger:
You see.. many times when you talked about my guids.. I get differents information from you.
Anthony säger:
Ok...I see what you are saying, but in a way that is like saying you expect us to be omniscient...and we are not. We are only given insight into things that are used to help other people in constructive ways. People have to decide for THEMSELVES what to belieive...
Anthony säger:
If I could just go around and throw around "concrete proof" that I am right about everytihng, nobody else would ever need to think for themselves...they would just blindly truth me?
Anthony säger:
trust
Anthony säger:
I would in a sense almost be "forcing" other people to believe as I believe, and that would not only fail to be constrictive, but it would be wrong for me or the guides to do that?
Orcher säger:
Do it once. for us all. and you wont be bothered towice
Orcher säger:
If you have the right information. and the truth .. Then there is no wrong to belive you either. And jesus did the same.
Orcher säger:
I do not say that you jesus. But who said that jesus is the only one who can bring faith.
Anthony säger:
I disagree. The point of life is to live and make our own decisions, not to just make the right decision by the easiest way possible (such as having someone else make decisions for you).
Orcher säger:
You are not forcing.. They still have their choise. (you call it FreeWill).. This will only strenger our INTEREST in your messages. TO help us better.
Anthony säger:
Even IF I had ALL the RIGHT answers, and gave them to everybody so they could make the "right" decisions, the very point and reason for their living would be lost.
Orcher säger:
You will never be able to give the right answer to ALL.. neither did jesus in his time.
Orcher säger:
He gived to some of them. And in that way he made his words more interested. did´nt he`?
Orcher säger:
He gave...
Anthony säger:
If I could give everybody "indisputable proof" that I am "right" any tiome I wanted, most sane people would stop to think for themselves when they began to trust me enough...and this would help no-one in my opinion.
Orcher säger:
You wont be able to answer them the whole life either. So dont worry about that part. They will only use your words in their day/night life. and keep them in mind.
Orcher säger:
You already give them advice and help.
Orcher säger:
They need something which make them belive, THAT you are not playing with them.
Anthony säger:
Yes...but I also give them no reason to blindly trust me and encourage them to use their own intuition and think about what I say and decide for themselves.
Anthony säger:
But MAKING anybody do anyting is wrong...that is what I am trying to say.
Orcher säger:
I still dont understand how that will harm peopel.. suppose now that you told me the color of my shirt. You told me the right answer. Then i will have a more opened mind to read about you. What the Zeta say. what the pleidians say. And read the whole Zetatalk thought its almost unlimeted lol-....well. This will also encourge me to HEAR/lidsen at what you say. OBSERV i do not mean BELIVE. thats dif
Orcher säger:
ANd beside.. I will be more enourge to spend more time to use the pendulum. and trying to have contact with my guid.
Orcher säger:
You see. the pendulum Didn´t work once.. NOT EVEN once.. its 50%/50% ....
Anthony säger:
Ok, say I did this...over and over and over again, until you DID trust me very much...then I started telling you that the ******* are the one's who are destroying the earth, and we need to kill them all...in subtle clever ways...MANY people would believe me because of the credibility I had established.
Anthony säger:
THis is EXACTLY the way a person with evil intentions would go about trying to control people.
Orcher säger:
Why would you do that? .. i know there is those who much can belive what you say .. whatever you say.
Orcher säger:
But what does it stopp the evil to do the same. IF they can do the same already.. Did you understand me?
Anthony säger:
You cannot stop evil by forcing other poeple to stop being evil. You can only teach people to look into themselves where they always know what is right and wrong and show them that the will be heappier loving others than in trying to take for themselves what they think they want.
Orcher säger:
Well. then answer me this.. Can evil peopel Guess the color of my shirt right now .. in right way ?
Anthony säger:
I will not say that it is impossible that there are some who can.
Orcher säger:
ok.. with other words.. There is those who can ?
Orcher säger:
Then Why are they not doing that already ?
Anthony säger:
All I am saying is that everyting I have done, and the other people I work with, is to try and get people to become aware of things and get in touch with themselves and think for themselves.
Orcher säger:
What make your "things" be more true then what a fantacy writer do?
Anthony säger:
Everyting that happens through the pendulum, and through telepathy happens through your higher self. And what we try to teach is how people can get in touch with that higher self.
Orcher säger:
I dont know what you mean by heigher self. couse this does´t exist for me .. So please show me and proof me my heigher self .
Anthony säger:
Well, for myself...as I have travelled this path, I have come across many personal proofs that this is more than just imagination or deception, but it is a personal matter and only applies to me. My truth is not your truth, nor should it be.
Orcher säger:
Then why do you go out with your truth to poepel around you ?
Anthony säger:
Because I desire to help people...note that this is different from trying to foce people to believe what I believe.
Anthony säger:
All I am trying to do is share what I have found with others, but not to make them see it.
Orcher säger:
Does help contain a Zeta/pleidians/ poleshift/pendulum/ heigherself/ Guids ?
Orcher säger:
What does Planet X to do with "help peopel"
Orcher säger:
?
Anthony säger:
Well, if you read any of my material, you will notice that I talk VERY little about any of that. I think the awareness of some of the coming events is important to some people, but it is not what I choose to focus on.
Orcher säger:
You still have them included. And this is still my quiestion. How would Zeta, pleidians and Planet X wich bring catastrophic events to do with helping peopel ?
Anthony säger:
They are not bringing catastrophic events. The catastrophic events would hapeen whether they were here or not. They are just trying to help us make the most of it.
Orcher säger:
Its very clair that you bring catastrophic news at least .. And the poleshift and the coming Planet X wont make it better. So I still dont understand how this will help peopel.
Anthony säger:
Ok, how would it help people more if nobody told anybody about this or offered suggstions for making hte most of it when it is going to happen anyway?
Orcher säger:
If you already say that it will happen anyway. Why do you want them to worry about it already now. And you caling that help?
Anthony säger:
We do not encourage "worry" - in fact wuite the opposite. You will never see any of us that I am aware of focusing on doom and gloom, but rather how to make the most of it.
Anthony säger:
Other peole sometimes read about his and proclaim the end of the world, but we have always said the opposite. that the world will go on and be in fact a better place after the turmoil.
Orcher säger:
When you claim that Planet X are commin soon. and it will bring with it the poleshift to creat a mass destruction.. with mortality of about 2/3 of human peopel.. What do you think peopel will think about you message?. How do you think they will react ? have you thought about it ?
Orcher säger:
And you still offer safe places in Zetatalk.com . How come =?
Anthony säger:
Well again, to be honest, I have never pesonally rsaid any of this....it is not what I prefer to focus on or how I prefer to try and help people. I do see along with all thtat however, advice about how to suriveve, where will be safe, encouragement for people to work together in love instead of taking what "I want", suggesting for how society can better teach our children, etc.
Anthony säger:
brb
Orcher säger:
You still a part of the message Anthony. And by only mentioning it once or twoice. foucsing on it less or more. This wont change the situation.
Anthony säger:
Well, all I can say is that I am sincerely doing the best I can to contribute somethign of value to my fellow man. Maybe I'm all wrong, but I am doing my best and feel good about it in my heart. That is all I can ask of myself.
Anthony säger:
If I am all wrong, I will find out the hard way and be the first person to tell you you were right.
Anthony säger:
Until then, all I know to do is what feels right to me in my heart.
Orcher säger:
Why do you thing that your best is our best. Are you aware of what you are doing right now ?. By broadcasting a message of a Zeta / pleidians / Planet X approach and poleshift , mass destruction, death. What make you thing this is the best for us ?
Anthony säger:
Well, I could turn that around and ask what makes you feel what you think is right for you is right for me? We are each different, and we each need to follow our own hearts and do the best we know how with what we have been given.
Orcher säger:
And if you really want help us. Why dont you give us the proof of all you say. I'm very sure that more then me and the other poor guys will lidsen at you. I personly will spred the message to "help" them if you show me your proof.
Orcher säger:
We are all each different. But this does´t give us the right to spred message like those you are doing right now.
Anthony säger:
Well...I don't know what to say. I am sorry you feel this way, but it is your right to feel what you feel. I guess we are just different in this.
Orcher säger:
The heart have nothing to do with what you are telling us right now.
Orcher säger:
Yes much different. But what give you the right to spead a mass destruction with Planet X approach?
Anthony säger:
See, now you are judging me and telling me what I am feeling when in fact I feel I know my own heart better than you. You can think this about me, but honestly...if you can know my heart better than me then you are more psychic than you give yourself credit for.
Orcher säger:
What does this to do with my heart or your heart Anthony ? . Iam not talking about any organic part of my or your body. We are talking of conspiracy you have spred over the net.
Orcher säger:
Planet X approch.
Orcher säger:
Poleshifet
Orcher säger:
Zeta.
Anthony säger:
The only way I can see where I would be wrong in telling people about the pole shift and trying to help them adapt is if it in fact never happens. If it DOES happen, then I feel whatever I can do to help is valuable.
Anthony säger:
If it does NOT happen, then I will have been wrong.
Anthony säger:
And then I would agree that I would share any blame for people's fear and confusion.
Orcher säger:
No. You have not only beeing wrong. You have also made a very awefull crime.
Orcher säger:
And if you are so Sure this will happen.. Why dont you proof it ?
Anthony säger:
This is turning into a circular argument. I try to say what I feel, and you tell me to prove it. I don't know what else to say? ALl I can do is do my best and what I feel is right and be responsible for the consequences whether I am right or wrong?
Anthony säger:
I simply cannot do any more than that?
Orcher säger:
You are already responsible of what already have been done.
Orcher säger:
But the issue is if you understand what you are doing.
Anthony säger:
Fair enough. But you don't yet know for sure if that responsibility id bad, or whether it might actually have been helpful yet.
Orcher säger:
Yes i do. I have no proof. and you neithe you do. The differents is .that you are so SURE.
Orcher säger:
And you are speding it over the net without any proof. by only claiming that you FEEL it right.
Anthony säger:
*sigh* I am sorry, I just don't know what to say. I understand how you feel but I do not agree with you. I just do not know what else I can say?
.
.
Orcher säger:
I would like to share our message if it does´t both you ? more will be envolved through that.
.
.
Anthony säger:
It is what it is, if you think it will help someone then do what you wish. I will save a copy of the transcrip I guess. Good night.
Orcher säger:
Great,.
.
.
If you dont mind, send me a link to what you do with it?
__________________________________________________________________
So what do you guys believe of this?.
For me.. Show Your cards and give us [Proof], [Truth].. call it what every you want, or your conspiracy is GAMEOVER for my part at least.