Rules / Magick / Life Plan / Guides / Channeling..

[Edi]

Hi ladies (and the few gentlemen),

the following is a rather long conversation I had with Mayatnik last week. In my opinion there are quite some interesting things in it (needless to say ), but one peculiarity of it is the presentation: throughout the whole conversation, Mayatnik asked for comments from my guide Perena. I then asked her some things about whatever we were talking about at the moment, which gave me a better understanding and some more input to build into the conversation. So there was input coming from all 4 sides... me, Mayatnik, and our guides. In fact, he just relayed to me what was given from his guide, and what was intended to be made public by the guides.

After the chat, while reading it again, I've got additional input from my guide and added more comments from her to this transcript before posting it... this shows clearly that it is not just "in a person's head", but rather full interaction and working together between guides and us as human channels here. The work of a channeler is not to be only an information pipeline, but to engage in discussions about what comes through... discussions with the guide, but also with other humans (be they channelers or not). Only in this way does the channeled information serve it's purpose, because only with all the input from various sides can a true comprehension of the involved matters arise.

This time,
Mayatnik is blue,
Edi (myself) is green,
and my guide Perena is maroon, as usual.

Text in italics was added after the conversation took place by me and my guide.





MAYATNIK says:
I'm back
Edi says:
Perena said I should have a look on the screen, and there you are, so I'm back too
MAYATNIK says:
Yes, I'm back.....but this PC (not the broken one, a different one) is working incredibly slowly in every way, so I'm having great problems with it.
Edi says:
As long as it doesn't crash... it will do it's job, even if poorly.
MAYATNIK says:
I have read your reply to the 'guides' thread also - it was very well put, excellent explanation.
Edi says:
Thanks.. I felt it was over time to do that... people need some input and guidance there.
MAYATNIK says:
It is a bad time for me all round - I was waiting today for an electrician and a plasterer to call and give me estimates and reports....and both failed to turn up, so my progress with getting this house ready for selling is yet further delayed..  The PC is not refreshing properly, and takes about 10 seconds to update anything (even a single -> or <- key press).
Edi says:
oh, that's horrible.... slow pc's can be annoying.
MAYATNIK says:
The post by Tippa was well timed too.  Changes are in procress now, and more will come from all this.....as well as things happening over the next few months now.
Edi says:
I get the impressing that something is hanging in the air... from several sides... for example fuzzi yesterday made some remarks about why we all have slight difficulties in communication the last days.
Edi says:
or weeks.
MAYATNIK says:
I managed to get time to have a conversation with Fuzzi (he was talking with Val, and she asked me could I talk to him).  I was able to make him feel a lot clearer about things Val later told me.
Edi says:
I admire how you just seem to... know it all, and point everyone into the right direction.
Edi says:
Like someone with lots of patience who is watching the children grow.
MAYATNIK says:
I say what I am given to say, at the right time.  There are things I am not permitted to tell while things are unfolding.  Now is a time for diversity of input, and the fledgelings are taking their wings and soaring higher.  Many are now watching with new eyes as things unfold.
Edi says:
It's just more and more beautiful, that's the only word I find.
MAYATNIK says:
Sleepysean emailed me, and also requested to be on my buddies list and is now - but I have not seen him yet, and have not had time to email back.  I've read his posts, and he is doing fine so no problem.  But I know he can benefit from talking to you and to Val... this is how the diversity works and ultimately converges into a community.
Edi says:
I don't know sleepysean yet... I work a lot with Ashen and Ramiel (that's their names on the forum)... they are quite different in how easy they go into it at the beginning, like an upper and lower bound on the scale of how 'receptive' people can be...
MAYATNIK says:
Yes.  I am aware you work with Ashen, but I I don't know Ramiel.  When work is put onto the forums people can see how each differs.  How a person develops is not according to a fixed 'pattern' so it is not a question of he/she is doing this and I can't yet... it is closely aligned with inner-development and what the guides know regarding the future events that will unfold in each location.

["Why does one person hear his guide easily, and the other struggles at it first? There is no linear development, or a fixed 'pattern' as Mayatnik words it. An individual's development happens in his own unique way, and there is absolutely no sense in looking at others with the thought 'Oh, why am I not like that?'. Spiritual development has nothing to do with abilities like astral projection, deep meditation, talking to guides, manipulating energy and the likes. Those all can come in at a point, that is true, but only as it is needed and apt for the person to experience in his life. People would so much like to do special magic tricks, or as you call it, 'special fx' - the earth is not the place for this. 'Abilities' should be used for the good of all, so they are by rule not encouraged if the motive behind it is covering of insecurity, or walking away from problems. There are lessons to be learnt, after all. Dealing with those things and having your feet stable on the earth is the best way to grow high to the sky."]

Edi says:
Hm, I didn't think about putting transcripts on the forums yet... I think I'll consider that from now on.
MAYATNIK says:
Perena will advise you on this.  You will be told the 'subtleties' in this when you talk with Perena.
Edi says:
I get more and more information when working with people... in reiki sessions, and when talking online on msn.
Edi says:
It's as if this type on intuition and information slowly opens for me now, free to be used with good intent.

[This information is mostly a feeling about the state of mind and the emotions the other experiences, sometimes clearer, sometimes not... so nothing which could be used wrongly anyways. My guide only gives me information when necessary, normally it's enough to discuss my intuition with her to get a picture.

"Considering how Edi works with people, it is necessary for him to work together with me. One part is experience he gained until now, and the other part is that he gets information from me about how to proceed best with people. I can say that it's time for x, or not yet time for y, and this is the way we work... not giving too much answers, as everything a person needs to grow is already there. We can just point at it - that would be the ideal way of teaching."]

Edi says:
Everyone is playing his special, unique part...
MAYATNIK says:
I am to start doing Reiki with people again and counselling face-to-face....but I need to move house to do that, as it is impossible here.  It is very frustrating right now, due to immense problems to be overcome in putting the house up for sale and finding the best house to move to.  I am told that there is no 'interference' to cause these problems, and it is a chain of bad 'circumstances'.
Edi says:
That's sad... I hope this will be done soon.
Edi says:
Maybe you can use the time for some rest, or regeneration, if you need it.
MAYATNIK says:
No.  I must start phoning workmen tomorrow, as it will take time to get them organized and booked in - the longer I leave it the worse it will be.  And I have the Building Society wanting to re-survey the house (which can only be done AFTER this work), and each stage depends on the preceding stage for planning and dovetailing in.
Edi says:
Oh.
MAYATNIK says:
House prices are critical at this time, and the is only a small window of opportunity.... the prices are astronomical where I seek to go, and will rise again after February......so I must endevour to be away before mid-February, which means very fast action now.
MAYATNIK says:
My house price 'value' has not risen the same as the other area, and that means further problems, which is why the additional work and expense is necessary to obtain the best price for this house here.
Edi says:
Yesterday I'm made a a webinterface to organize the zeta questions... this makes it easier for me to have an overview of what has been answered where, and will be a good framework if other people want to join in... my concerns with the accuracy of what I get are now more relaxed.
MAYATNIK says:
You have good skills there, and they will be very useful.  You are right to be more 'relaxed' concerning accuracy.  Consider conversation, that you do not converse well with people if you are constantly worrying whether they are 'accurate'.....the story unfolds in the interchange, and the perception grows as it is absorbed.  That is how we will best proceed, in the most natural way as we Zeta-talk
Edi says:
Yes... I see the information I receive as one big tapestry, which will turn out to be much more than the parts I can see while I receive it ... I like so much talking about 'easy' subjects, where I can tune in and let it flow freely... and details about this or that, well, I'll handle it.
MAYATNIK says:
Like any conversation, it should not be expected to understand what is new - whether it is about the next town or the next galaxy and their interest.... so, ask questions to seek more - and especially take a 'side' approach... in other words, plenty of 'chat' will get the picture through.... just like a good talk with a friend.

["The image could not make much sense at first. And this is where the learning comes in: 'how do you relate _this_ to your experiences? what is _that_ contradiction about?' ... this makes you review what you believe to know, and gives room for a greater understanding"]

Edi says:
okay
Edi says:
I'm just talking to dark knight ... it's so sad what he has to bear, and so wonderful that he still has strength.
MAYATNIK says:
Your transcript with him was excellent.   What is happening with him can be overcome.  It happened to me also, and all he has to do is call for assistance..... to discuss it with his guide, and arrange it.  They will then 'take steps'.
Edi says:
As far as I read his stories, his energy system or whatever I should call it is totally messed up, and his life is ... really  uncomfortable.
Edi says:
What she (it's a she actually) has to say is interesting at last ... about the 'greys', and what happened...
Edi says:
One group of them being 'infected' by something which took control of them... this is new to me.
MAYATNIK says:
Sorry, I keep getting cut off......every time I get back online it cuts me off straight away again.  So frustrating......... Yes, things are developing and perception is growing....and in this way the way forward will become clear.
MAYATNIK says:
It isn't exactly the way it seems on the surface.... it has to do with Free Will and attraction..... the way is to understand this.
Edi says:
So it was the will of those to experience this negative influence
MAYATNIK says:
No.  It was an 'attraction' caused by conditioning which reinforced it - just like people gather together, they can also not gather together if they don't feel 'right'.  That is the key.
MAYATNIK says:
I got very abusive 'visitors' when I started.....and I gave them a lecture, and told them how I expected them to behave..... I told them to 'metaphorically' go out, knock and when I said "enter" to come back 'in' with the right attitude and I would talk to them.....I will talk to any entity, but according to etiquette only, or they must leave.
Edi says:
What if they don't leave?
Edi says:
Or don't they have a choice.
MAYATNIK says:
They HAVE to leave.....that is the way of Higher Beings, of whatever orientation.....due to the way the 'are' (their rules of attraction make this).
Edi says:
So it's like a magnet which needs the right opposing pole, or invitation, or it can't come nearer
MAYATNIK says:
This is why it is important to observe etiquette with them at all times.  They are attracted to a person by the person themselves, be that person's pre-conditioning..... consider it like a person with 'confidence' to deal with PR, for example... those not confident are in a state on havoc.
MAYATNIK says:
In the Higher Realms, 'communities' exist in their orientation......just like towns are separated from other towns and have their own 'disposition'...... just like when you walk into a room and feel the 'vibes', good or bad to you......that's how it is with how they are in those Higher Realms.
MAYATNIK says:
Dark Night should say, when she hears abusive language, "Excuse me, whoever is breaking in there, please identify yourself POLITELY.  Abusive language is not conversation, and I will talk only if right etiquette is observed... otherwise go away now.  Otherwise, you are welcome."
Edi says:
She's just gone offline... I get the impression that she feels as a helpless victim.
MAYATNIK says:
Yes.  It is a lack of confidence.  She has to learn about this 'etiquette' thing - since that is the intergalactic rule, and she is really being given a good opportunity to grow here in this way.
Edi says:
So can't they even hurt or influene her negatively if she consciously says 'NO' and requests politeness?
MAYATNIK says:
If she does as I say, then she can not be affected - in fact, she can only become strengthened by it !  If she is 'negative' (feeling a victim) then she will actually attract more of the same, until she learns.  Simple as that.
Edi says:
I understand.-
Edi says:
I get that the common approach of 'fighting' 'negs' with rituals, energy work/combat and so on is somehow... unnecessary?
MAYATNIK says:
Also, the guides can send such for 'tests' if that is required - they can play many parts, as you know.  So, learning to engage and identify will not only educate (talking with different species of a wide diversity, which is very stimulating and rewarding on a galactic level), but it will also 'sus' out the situation, and help the person integrate into galactic society.
MAYATNIK says:
'fighting' is unnecessary on ANY level.  It is what Earthlings do, not the Higher Dimensions.  They work for what they want, but must follow intergalactic rules always.
Edi says:
And those intergalactic rules are comparable to our laws of physics, meaning that you just can't turn them around.
Edi says:
They enfore themselves automatically.
Edi says:
enforce.
MAYATNIK says:
The intergalactic 'rules' are due to aeons of evolution, embedded, and the galaxy is a small place to them......so they have to get on with their neighbours even though they may differ in orientation or approach.
Edi says:
Okay, I think I can help her the next time I talk to her... it's almost as if I can feel that something is not right in her approach, that the problem is in her inside, but this is still vague
MAYATNIK says:
If you save what I've written here, and go over it with her (Perena will add to this) then it will help her.
Edi says:
okay. this will be great.
Edi says:
Hmm... if someone gets attacked at night, while sleeping, with physical marks there in the morning... this too can be resolved by the same approach?
MAYATNIK says:
You could include my conversation as part of a transcript, since it will help others on the Astral Pulse to see a different perspective.  There is much that has been distorted over time, and that has led to deep seated fears in people and the perceived need to 'defend' themselves.  In reality, the answer lies in seeing the bigger picture, not just the Earthbound worms-eye view.
MAYATNIK says:
When a person receives physical 'marks' that is different.   Put at a simple level, that is a manifestation effect of Poltergeist activity..... it actually comes from the person's own mind projecting.
MAYATNIK says:
No entities are allowed to physically attack a person, and if that were to be allowed then the world would be in chaos - in other words, it would be that the Higher Realms did not have control - and that is just not so.  In fact, we are 'children' of the stars, quite literally.. so are in the playroom called 'Earth', safe except from our own wilfulness and conditioning by the other 'children' here
MAYATNIK says:
Just going to make a drink of tea...back in 3 minutes.
Edi says:
ok
MAYATNIK says:
Ask Perena to confirm these things I have just told you, and she will add to them she says.
Edi says:
Oh yes, she does add.

["If a person experiences such things, they just have to deal with it. It's all about fear, negativity, and lessons one has to experience. I want to emphasize: nobody is a victim of anybody besides of themselves. And about 'rules' and the like: it is fact that higher beings can't just jump into our minds and hurt us or bother us against our will. We choose what we experience, and how we do that. The metaphor of earth being a play-pen for children is to be taken almost literally in that sense.. there is noone who can step over those rules as he likes, and those rules are in place and are held in place by the higher beings. What happens on earth is made by humans, and you have to freedom to create whatever reality you like."]

Edi says:
There's much I can learn here...
MAYATNIK says:
She can also explain about the 'role' of elementals in all of this, and the two types of magick (in particular the type where a circle is drawn to 'exclude' while the person works from within (and how this is fear-driven, so actually attracts that which they seek to exclude).
Edi says:
"Elementals are helping to manifest things" ... "The type Mayatnik refers to is one based on power, strength and fighting... you seperate yourself by that circle, and that separation is like a 'signpost' for negativity to come around"
MAYATNIK says:
Yes, Perena will tell you much that will increase your knowledge in this to help you work with people and their fears.
Edi says:
"The other type is one where you flow more freely with things, and use the streams and energies of nature in a softer way"
Edi says:
Val said she's learning much about magic from her guide.
Edi says:
or magick
MAYATNIK says:
That is the 'tradional' witches way, not that of the 'magickian'.
MAYATNIK says:
Yes, I have talked to Val about magick and explained things to her, which she is now continuing with her guide.
MAYATNIK says:
Over the centuries magick practices have become distorted and misunderstood, and there has become an emphasis on the 'ritual' iself.  Ritual is good for group gatherings (such as covens, when it is part of the occasion), and it is used for  focussing the mind, but it is not necessary for magick when adept, and neither are the other 'trimmings'.
MAYATNIK says:
The basic ritual acknowledging air, fire, water and earth are actually an acknowledgement of the 'elements' and is at the core of what the word 'elemental' means - a dynamic living-energy, in 2D, the sphere of 'feeling'..... so, it is true that Mother Earth breathes and feels and should be honoured.
MAYATNIK says:
... and respected......and cared for....... but sadly, man abuses the Earth Mother and the elements are not understood.
Edi says:
A friend of my father is very interested in magick, metaphysics, and such things... he gathers old and very rare scriptures from everywhere he can find them. He's got a _very_ big library.
Edi says:
It feels almost too technical.
MAYATNIK says:
It has been made technical.

["There is much to be known about magick, but it shouldn't be complicated and wrapped up in various complex rituals. Those are crutches, but how can you walk normally, or even run, with crutches? They shouldn't be used except where necessary, lest they be a hindrance."]

Edi says:
I guess magick should just be about ... communication with what we are living in and on.
Edi says:
flowing
MAYATNIK says:
People through the ages have sought to shroud it in mystery (first of all to protect it, but then for 'secrecy' and exclusion from others).  Add to that the 'ego' that has gone alongside the mistique and 'learned theories' about it, and distortion took away the beautiful simplicity of magick.
Edi says:
I can imagine.
Edi says:
I wonder what magick can accomplish... I see it as a tool to consciously shape our surroundings... normally this is done 'automatically', representing our belief systems or whatever, that those things we need come to us... but through magick we can participate more consciously in all this.
MAYATNIK says:
The Higher Beings use magick all the time - they use their minds very powerfully, in other words, to pass through dimensions, and even affect matter on which they focus if they need to (although there are very strict rules in place that they are bound by).  Magick was seen on this planet with the 'fairies' - yes, they were Higher Beings - and Merlin was real, too.  They used Cosmic Magick.
MAYATNIK says:
When I do magick, I do it through my guide only, because it is Cosmic Magick, and is too powerful for man alone to use without seeing the much higher perspective of what  results from its use.  It has to be seen from outside of time, and Merlin was the last Earthperson to use it by himself, and in so doing he caused a rift in time, where many years were 'lost' to our perception....
Edi says:
Wow.
MAYATNIK says:
so it has not been permitted for man to use unaided ever since, due to the problems that had to be put right at a Higher Level.
MAYATNIK says:
So, when I am required to do magick I allow my hands to be moved by my guide, and words (if necessary) to issue from my mouth...and it is done.  But THEY control the magick, not I.  I am simply the manifestor in this dimension of that which is needed if so needed, and not unless.
Edi says:
So it could be too dangerous if it was to be used just by anyone who liked to.
MAYATNIK says:
It WOULD be too dangerous, because from our earth-perspective we cannot see the consequences of manipulating time and  matter.
MAYATNIK says:
VERY strict parameters must be set - imagine the effect of slowing down time if it is not localised or particularised.
Edi says:
Yes... and as our perspective is so limited, we just are not in the position to handle those things appropriately.
Edi says:
Hehe.. yes, that would be kinda ... weird.
MAYATNIK says:
Exaclty !  Add to this the need for it to be for the common good always, and to have a real and needed purpose that carries forward but does NOT impinge on Free Will.
Edi says:
There are so many things we couldn't see and could never consider all at once.
MAYATNIK says:
This slowing down of time is what was done at the time of my wife's death.  She had a stroke, and its effect takes 7 seconds, but they slowed time down to last 2 and a half minutes, during which she was given information to relay to me as she would no longer be with me and there were things that needed to be told that were for the future and which it was decided I should know.....
MAYATNIK says:
At the end of that 'period' of time, all the clocks and watches in the house stopped - and never went again.
MAYATNIK says:
Perena will tell you that this was necessary.

["It was necessary, indeed."]

Edi says:
That must have been .. long minutes.
MAYATNIK says:
I was speechless.  I felt the time stand still, and just listened to my wife who spoke non-stop for what she had to say, and then she fell into my arms and never regained consciousness.
Edi says:
She tells me you wouldn't be here and teaching people so much if not for those minutes.
MAYATNIK says:
That is so.  It was a NDE that my wife had (on what I call "The Bridge of No Return") that shaped the future and all that was to be, that was written and meant to be and so it came to be.
MAYATNIK says:
I was given to SHARE that unique NDE.
Edi says:
to share meaning to be part of it?
MAYATNIK says:
All was relayed to me that was taking place, and what was being said to her.
MAYATNIK says:
Three 'men' she told me, had appeared and were walking towards her.  I could not see them, and she said, "Then that mean I must go with them.  There were things I should have done, they are telling me, and which I didn't do.  They say you tried to warn me that this would happen, but I wouldn't listen......Is there anything we can do to stop this?....No, they are telling me I have left it too late.
MAYATNIK says:
And now I can no longer be with you for what was meant to be.  Another will be sent, and she will be adequate for what there is yet to be done.  You will be very happy together till the end of your days, and she will be there for what there is yet to do, for this to be as written"
Edi says:
This touches my heart.
MAYATNIK says:
There were experiences we were meant to have, and also our 'task' in life to help others... those things were cut short because she was effectively murdered (the real cause of her death).....and that caused a rift in the very fabric of time, since things had been written to be and were being prevented.  So, the three 'men' (I termed the the 'three wise men') were actually the Lords Of Time.....
MAYATNIK says:
The Lords Of Time only appear when something has gone drastically wrong with what has been written to be.   And they 'escorted' her away, pending a full enquiry by their court and decisions about what would then be done to put things 'right' again.
Edi says:
Are they concerned with only the earth, or something much bigger? I wonder how relative and local our time is.
MAYATNIK says:
They are on a parallel in terms of 'power' with what we call 'God' - so that should explain their importance.  'God' actually works with them, not over them, and He works with great respect in so doing when necessary.
Edi says:
I see.
MAYATNIK says:
I didn't see them when they appeared to my wife, but she'd said they were "attaching things" to her, and that I should not go any nearer to her as it could be dangerous for me.......
MAYATNIK says:
The three 'men' were very tall, about 6ft 6in in height, and wore what I would term 'radiation suits' rather like the michelin-man, and they wore arab-type headdress and capes over their shoulders......
MAYATNIK says:
What was striking though was that each of them held a long 'instrument', like a staff with a flared end.....they each held their instrument in a relaxed way, downwards and slightly to one side......
MAYATNIK says:
I got the 'impression' that they had used these instruments to take my wife away.  So, I said, "Thank you.  Now, show me the view with my wife in it, and the use of your 'instruments'.......
MAYATNIK says:
I turned, and to my left I saw my wife as she had been at the time, seated.  The three 'instruments' were being held with the flared ends pointed together to a point just above her head, at the centre of which space there was a scintillating golden sphere (which I 'knew' was my wife's soul), and this was being carefully 'held' in place by the 3 'men' and their instruments, as by electromagnetism.
MAYATNIK says:
I asked to see where they had taken her, and they just vanished.  The vision was ended, and they would not tell me (though I found out all the details later, by persisting).
MAYATNIK says:
What do you think of that?  And, what does Perena say about it?
Edi says:
At first I wondered about those instruments... that they need instruments to carry your wife's soul away... and that it doesn't happen 'automatically', and the soul just goes where it belongs to...
Edi says:
it's strange to me when 'higher beings' use instruments...
Edi says:
and I don't think it's done this way with everyone who goes from this world.
Edi says:
Perena says what happened is to be taken literally, not symbolically... it was exactly that way you perceived it.
MAYATNIK says:
Ordinarily the soul goes, depending on the orientation and mindset of the person, to a destination...... or it can occasionally seek another body being born to enter.  Taken away 'under escort' in this way ensures that it will go where required for a Higher Purpose.
Edi says:
And she continues work from the other side.
Edi says:
This means what she does is quite ... important and necessary, for a higher purpose.
MAYATNIK says:
For example, the Palestinian suicide bombers are 'escorted' into another dimension, because they have taken lives and can not be permitted to re-enter another body in that state.

["If 'free will' is exerted in such a way that others are prevented from doing things they should have done, appropriate steps are taken for all involved ..."]

MAYATNIK says:
Perena explains this precisely in what she said there.  There is a Higher Purpose that rules the order of things.
Edi says:
So those poor souls are brought to a dimension or area which is specifically made for playing out this 'game' in some way until they learn it ... or better worded: where they cannot cause such destruction, but learn about it.
MAYATNIK says:
I have never told what happened that day, so this is the time for it to now be known Karek says.
Edi says:
I thought you didn't tell this until now.
MAYATNIK says:
The Palestinian suicide bombers are totally sincere in what they are trying to do for their country against the 'oppressors' (the Israelis) and the terrorism on their innocent women and children.  But killing is not the answer to killing.
MAYATNIK says:
When a person is deliberately killed then they are effectively prevented from fulfilling their preplanned destiny - that is why murder and killing is wrong.
MAYATNIK says:
Karek says it is time for these things to be known that I have written here tonight.
Edi says:
Meaning this should be posted on the forum?
MAYATNIK says:
Karek says, Yes - along with Perena's additional comments to add to this perspective for the benefit of readers of the Astral Pulse.

["What I say at the moment is just some 'glue' for all those things to come together, and much can be said on all these topics... but it's important that people read it themselves, and ponder and discuss whatever new there is to them, or what does not fit into what they believe."]

Edi says:
We 2 will gladly do this.
MAYATNIK says:
Perena's input here will be of great assistance in furthering understanding, since I have only told you the bare essentials.  That way, it will be seen that the guides know the 'protocols' of all these things.
Edi says:
"We just read it as it's written, metaphorically speaking, when we need to know"
MAYATNIK says:
(this includes not only the stopping of time, 'escort' under special circumstances, but also magick.
Edi says:
Yes, I would have included that. I would prefer to go through the parts related to Dark Knight with her first before putting it on the forum.
MAYATNIK says:
That is what Karek thinks - that this should be in two parts, if it helps the situation with Dark Knight to deal with that aspect seperately in context with Dark Night's observations and other comments from the guides.
Edi says:

[I've left it here nevertheless to keep the whole transcript intact]

Yes... and as I make progress with her, those things will be put on the forum for everyone to follow.
MAYATNIK says:
This will enlarge people's perspective, and show that there are many facets that are not obvious on the surface.  It has been mentioned on the forum that perhaps Mayatnik has gone forever.  No, I am still here, but I am only permitted now to work in the background (which I do as often as I can) because the scene is changing, and new elements are being introduced into play and this will continue...
MAYATNIK says:
(I keep getting cut off)
Edi says:
I made some tea in the meanwhile.
MAYATNIK says:
My role in not directly contributing is for a Higher Purpose....... yes, I love my pint pot of tea !
Edi says:
I've made a tea for my stomach... and it's _horrible_. I wonder how this can be medicine  
MAYATNIK says:
It is taught (or should I say, 'pursuaded') that what tastes horrible is the best medicine.  It ain't necessarily so.
Edi says:
I see the purpose in your not contributing... it makes us all work on our own, and brings people together... there's no 'teacher' and 'student', but we all are students this way.
Edi says:
And the things are unfolding on their own through all of us. One part here, one part there.
Edi says:
In retrospect it will probably seem like a perfectly planned puzzle  
Edi says:
Not only in retrospect, even while going through it.
MAYATNIK says:
It is a time now for each to contribute in their own way as their guides direct, and this will become a convergence as the pieces fall together in the 'puzzle', yes.
MAYATNIK says:
I am here to discuss with different people various things when the time is right for them, to give a 'signpost' in the theme... and each then carries this forward in their own footsteps as they develop themselves by Free Will.
Edi says:
I think you're very good in that... not giving too much, and giving the best opportunities to grow.
Edi says:
I'm just filling in perenas words between the lines of our talk about dark knight.
MAYATNIK says:
I am having terrible problems here with MSN.  It keeps signing me out, and it hung on that this time - so I had to reboot.
Edi says:
I hope it's better now.
MAYATNIK says:
Your previous last message was......
MAYATNIK says:
I think you're very good in that... not giving too much, and giving the best opportunities to grow.
Edi says:
A part of me wonders that the solution to psychic attacks is just to say "go away if you're not polite"
Edi says:
yes, that was all I wrote before "I'm just filling in perenas words between the lines of our talk about dark knight."
MAYATNIK says:
I was trying to send a message after that several times, but managed to save it before I had to close everything.....I'll fetch it...
MAYATNIK says:
MAYATNIK says:
I am not permitted to give 'answers', only to show things that are not visible from the person's perspective at that time -  I am told, "Don't tell them...." (this or that) "...yet.  The need to see the perspective from higher ground first".  And that's how it goes.
MAYATNIK says:
*they need to see....... that should read
MAYATNIK says:
Good.  We are up to date with messages then.
Edi says:
Fine... I finally get used to that type of teaching, and more and more comfortable with it
Edi says:
I let things flow, because what is right will come, and what not will not.. so everything is alright
MAYATNIK says:
Yes.  It isn't 'withholding' as people might imagine it to be.  It is to allow the person to grow for themselves, and not be yanked in a direction.
Edi says:
Yes.
MAYATNIK says:
'Knowledge' is not there as a an automatic fount to be drunk from.  It nas to be taken in stages.
Edi says:
hehe
Edi says:
Sometimes I wished just to have a book with everything to read... read of this and that stage... but that would be nonsense, and completely different from experiencing it.
MAYATNIK says:
Since the 'real' person is driving their 'vehicle' (their body/personality) they should not be 'drunk at the wheel', and too much at once is intoxicating.
MAYATNIK says:
... it would make them go all over the road, and maybe even off it into a meandering side-road of confusion at all before them.
MAYATNIK says:
So, in that way I have set the 'scene' - and it is now time for people to interact and talk their way through the undergrowth to Higher Ground, where they will understand what they then see and what was merely hinted at by me on my guide's instructions.
Edi says:

MAYATNIK says:
Has Perena got anything to say on this?
Edi says:
Oh, I talked with her some times about how things progress, and the way it is for everyone.. they way we are teached. She thinks it's part of our experience we chose to have, and we will benefit greatly from it. And this is why we're here.
Edi says:
If we worked from the other side we would have more answers and it would be clearer... but it is important to bring it in from 'this side', to experience it, to grow through it, and to make a bridge to the other side.. an anchor.
MAYATNIK says:
Yes.  It is an individual choice.  Some try to compare their progress (or, as they sometimes see it, their lack of) with others - these things can not be compared, because  each comes to learn something at a different time according to the path they are on, and much depends on inner-development and breaking conditioning as well as the influence of those in their everyday lives....
Edi says:
Actually the this side - other side shouldn't be taken too literally... it's a construct which serves it's purpose, but the borders are not _that_ clear.
MAYATNIK says:
so, each must be their own person, and not be forced into grooves by others.  When it is time all that is meant to be will be, and only awaits the time and the choices made by the person at each crossroads.
MAYATNIK says:
'Sides' are really facets of the whole - there has to be diversity for interaction, and interaction is the way things are best absorbed.
Edi says:
SilentJohn said once that "the key to life is to participate" ... I like this sentence very much.
MAYATNIK says:
It is an excellent way to see it.  We grow with others, not in isolation.
Edi says:
Yes.
MAYATNIK says:
A man stands on a hillside, before him is a tree that someone has planted and which obscures much of his view despite his height.  A man on the opposite hillside can see a different perspective, and his view may cover what the other cannot see and more -  so, by listening and sharing the 'facets' of our landscape become closer to the reality.
Edi says:
And we don't depend on aerial cartography then.
Edi says:
And the more we communicate, the more we know of the surrounding landscape.
MAYATNIK says:
Arial cartography gives only a two-dimensional aspect.  Being able to shift our perspective allows us to see in multi-dimensions if we allow the inner-self, and not the 'vehicle', to do the observing and communicate with others from that greater  perception.
Edi says:
Oh yes, that's true.
Edi says:
I've finished commenting the transcript together with Perena... I hope I can help that woman with this. It seems almost too 'easy'.. another one from the forum who was helping her the last days was instantly attacked by lots of 'nasty greys' .. but I didn't experience anything uncomfortable at all.
Edi says:
But well... I would just laugh at anyone trying to 'attack' me ... nothing to be afraid of
MAYATNIK says:
Excatly.  There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
Edi says:
Yesterday I was at a party where they shortly talked about ghosts... one young girl there sensed crown chakras and 'saw' something in the corner of a room... and I noticed that they really really have fear of the unknown.... I asked a girl why she's afraid, and she just.. shaked in horror.
MAYATNIK says:
Ignorace is the cause of 'darkness' - the absence of enLIGHTenment.
MAYATNIK says:
People are afraid of the dark, what they don't know....and that is irrational.
MAYATNIK says:
Are you dealing with my 'shared NDE' and the Lords Of Time etc. section of this conversation in a seperate post?
Edi says:
Should I post everything up to here?
Edi says:
(and what is still to come)
Edi says:
or do you mean, as seperate from the pendulum thread?
MAYATNIK says:
(although both that and the Dark Knight theme is really part of a whole)..... Yes, what is following that up to here and whatever else we may discuss at this time.... You may post it all, with Perena's comments.
MAYATNIK says:
I was merely asking how you are putting it 'into shape', because much of that will depend on what Perena suggests in addition....

["My suggestion is to keep it all together, with just little comments here and there... it will be time later to write more about all those topics."]

Edi says:
okay... I'd prefer to talk to dark knight first, but after that I can put everything online in one post... I still have to think about if I comment in between the talk, or after that, letting the flow of the conversation undisturbed ... I can imagine that I do the latter, writing what perena says and elaborating more on the topics we covered.
MAYATNIK says:
Perena's 'thoughts' can come in as the conversation flows where appropriate, but some of the comments will be better at the end to 'cover the broad picture' as a summing up of the topic.
Edi says:
That's what she suggests... to have room for explanations and more information at the end.
MAYATNIK says:
(additional comments on what I was saying regarding certain things are best placed in context for clarity, if you can do that)
Edi says:
okay, I can look into that... it will take some time to get it all finished as I'm quite busy, but shouldn't take all too long.
MAYATNIK says:
such 'comments' from Perena could be put in between square brackets and/or Italics in the appropriate colour to indicate it is Perena talking.
Edi says:
Yes, I'll use some way to make it clear who's talking what... colours, brackets, all the special fx modern technology has to offer  
MAYATNIK says:
Perena will no doubt run through this with you as you re-read the transcript, and as she comments on what I say (or even add to what you say), then you can insert them at the time she says it.....then it is 'actuality' as it takes place.
Edi says:
quite non-linear... this is developing in several stages or loops
Edi says:
and more 'depth' is added at every revolution
MAYATNIK says:
It is because Perena has much that can be added to the conversation but wants to 'build' it up from the foundation conversation.

["Part 1 is the conversation itself... part 2 Edi reading it again and understanding what he missed at the first time... part 3 myself adding comments like now... part 4 is throwing it into the masses and see what comes back then... and part 5 will be additional comments from my side. And then, we will see."]

Edi says:
That's good... so she can attach her words to something which is already there... 'channeling' is fun that way.
MAYATNIK says:
You will notice also, that I don't just say something 'is' or 'happened'.... I ask for Perena's verification and additional comments on these things - in that way, it can be seen that we are working independently, yet our guides are in touch with each other and know the overall 'picture' and that will be then seen by the perceptive reader hopefully.
Edi says:
I just thought about that... I think this can be seen quite well.
MAYATNIK says:
This is how Karek sees it, and Perena has agreed (I asked Perena) that it will greatly add to their perspective when they read it.
Edi says:
They'll see that communication takes place between us and our guides in all possible combinations and directions.
Edi says:
(be right back, have to get the laundry before it begins to rot in in the machine ...)
MAYATNIK says:
That is for the Higher Purpose.  We are but the vehicles.
MAYATNIK says:
In this way the plan of the guides for us takes shape and is manifest.
Edi says:
Back on duty....
Edi says:
I like to see how everything falls into place.
MAYATNIK says:
What the readers are not aware of (unless we are asked to tell them) is the constant interaction we have with our guides, regarding various aspects for 'later', as well as what appears in the transcripts from us and them.
Edi says:
I get more information than I put into words here... slight meanings or ideas, images, everything... this someone makes room and common ground for the next things that will take place.
Edi says:
(someone=somehow)
MAYATNIK says:
Exactly.... this fits with what I was actually going to add just before.....but Karek said, "Wait till Edi responds first"... and now I see why, because it fits with what you've just put...... by me waiting (on instruction) the example has just been given by you in the above message of how the 'shape' of the conversation is dovetailed into a framework of the guides' choosing.
Edi says:
Even without us knowing first.
MAYATNIK says:
It is like following the signs on a road.  The signs are there, but we have to wait until we encounter the sign, and the direction goes according to what has been planned along our 'conversation' route.
MAYATNIK says:
I follow the 'road' instinctively now, comfortable to know that my co-driver knows every inch of the route - we are a team.
Edi says:
And this doesn't mean at all that you're being controlled or something like that... it's co-operation.
MAYATNIK says:
It is co-operation, full teamwork.  I talk to my guide as I write (about what I'm writing and what the other guide wants, confirming as I go.....and even after that, I don't press <send> or <enter> until I first check with Karek, "Yes?", and she nods or says, "send it"...or "hang on" when she knows what the other person has started to type would  confuse the issue and mean that more must be added.
Edi says:
Yeah, I know that nod very well by now  
MAYATNIK says:

MAYATNIK says:
Yes, indeed !
MAYATNIK says:
It is not easy to explain to those who are just reading...(here I confer with Karek, "Yes, put it")... the interaction that is a constant flow of dialogue between myself and my guide, and the simultaneous conveying of what is needed to be put in the sentence being given in my reply to someone, a reply that is exactly what the guide requires to be given for the greatest clarity in the circumstances
MAYATNIK says:
Karek actually gave me much practice in that 'simultaneous' multi-talking when she was training me, by getting me to go into shops (or similar situations) and hold a conversation with someone while at the same time Karek would be chatting away with me and I would need to answer her telepathically while not showing any break in the conversation with the other human.
Edi says:
It's sometimes not that easy for me to give someone exactly what he needs, but I'm presented with enough opportunities to learn that ... you've had some heavy practice there... but guaranteed to give a firm link.
MAYATNIK says:
You are learning as I learned, but in your o