Astral Availability

[Royal-Gambit]

Ok I want to keep this rather broad, but the main question is: with or without personal religious beliefs, do you think that a monkey, or any other animal has the capability of manifesting the astral realms. Now I don't mean if they can physically by themselves, but rather if they are open to the astral realms as we are. 

Things to consider: (Future) Scientifically inducing an OBE on a monkey
                           Afterlife beliefs/ Soul beliefs
                           The comprehension of a God
                           What exactly induces the astral in physics
                           Evolution

When we consider the difference between a human and a monkey, what comes to mind? The comprehension of a deity .

Perhaps there is more to it than we thought.

[redblackmask]

They MIGHT be able to, as I believe everything in this including biological organism (we are that). We cannt fathom God. And they already HAVE scientifically indueced obes.

Bottom Line maybe they can do it but since conscioussnes is not a publicly obersvable phenomena, then we may probably never know.

[Royal-Gambit]

Yes they have scientifically induced OBEs on humans, but animals are far different. The fact that OBEs can be scientifically induced does not make them any less mystical or 'afterlife related'

Speaking of which, most religions do not allow an afterlife for animals. If afterlife is real, certainly the astral dimensions (I try not to use this word for the sake of mixing it up with geometric dimensions in theoretical physics, but it seems most people use this) are very closely linked to an afterlife state, where DEATH is a form of meditation - (quote myself?)

Thank you for your input sir, and I would love to get lots of feedback particularly pertaining to the boundary between astral/afterlife/ and whom is available of which.

[redblackmask]

Omg you hear what I say??

Ok. Consciousness is not a publicly observable phenomena, so your question can't really be answered (yet) in that regard.

One answer I once received in meditation is that we reinarnate in many worlds for many reasons. Some people are very earth bound, while others move all across the Universe. We are the same as animals in that regard. I was told that animals are here because their past actions (karma) dictated that they would become animals on earth in their next life. But, as I said before, I believe that we all have an essence, or energy body, that is alongside our biological bodies. Animals have that too.

Now to the astral: To be honest, I don't know the answer to that but my best prediction would be that all of our "essences" would have access to the astral. People who AP frequently say they see animals up there who choose to go there. I don't get how that would work. So I already gave my input about what I thought with the animal afterlife, but with astral travel I just don't know. Maybe, one day, IF consciousness ever becomes an observable phenomena (which it probably won't) then you will have your answer.

[Fourthdimension]

i read that when we sleep we also go to the astral to some extent
and so what ever sleeps must also be able to astral project at will if it wanted

animals sleep so they must be able to project if that is what your asking

but if your asking can they consiously project i dont know becuase to some extent they dont have abillity to choose and think the way we do and is dominated by primal instincts

but then again man is also dominated by the same instincts
and animals choose which food they like best and which person to go to and so mabye they can become lucid or obe at will mabye thats why they sleep so much

have you ever thought about hibernation?

mabye animals hibernate not only cause of physical needs but becuase they need tyo spend a long time in the astral to regenerate

i dont think animals r here becuase of karma i thinks its choice i think there here to make the most of experience cause after all thats what were here for

[redblackmask]

That's your opinion though, same as the other was my opinion through experience. Experience, karma, and learning are all connected with reincarnation.

[Fourthdimension]

i know never meant any offence just expressing my oppinion as you expressed yours
sorry mate if you have any other probs or things you want to point out to me pm me so that we dont spam this thread

kk thanx
cya take care

[Royal-Gambit]

Yes many believe that the state of sleep is astrally related, but then again the sleep state is not nearly related to an afterlife state.

As far as reincarnation goes, I know quite a bit about the topic, but quite frankly, I cannot trust just any one who speaks from their own supernatural knowledge, since it can very soo much from NDE studies (different culture and religion literally change the outcome of mindset/afterlife).

Ok enough with that though, lets get down to earth on what matters here: The physical reality astral dimensions of consciousness are genuinely related to the mind surviving death. Even if one believes in reincarnation, that does not mean that an individual does not receive an afterlife. If it did, than you can flush down the toilet all the knowledge that came from NDEs, and if you do that, what do we have left?!

Im sorry if i get off topic, but I just had an idea rather recently, is it possible that organisms (through evolutionary means) reincarnate BEFORE they reach 'prefection' rather until they repent upon a christian/jewish/islamic take? I like to think of it as, reincarnation until understanding or the creator.

[Royal-Gambit]

very important note: I have heard that many animals (dogs especially) do not have sleep paralyasis. If all animals do not have sleep paralyasis, perhaps they have no astral? It would make sense, and would support many afterlife beliefs.

Comments are greatly welcome.

[Naykid]

very important note: I have heard that many animals (dogs especially) do not have sleep paralyasis. If all animals do not have sleep paralyasis, perhaps they have no astral? It would make sense, and would support many afterlife beliefs.

Comments are greatly welcome.

I'm curious as to how that study was done..lol  I've seen literally hundreds of animals in the astral, do you mean they shouldn't be there?  Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean.  How does that support afterlife beliefs?

Thanks.

[Fourthdimension]

Mabye science did prove that gambit but personally i dont belive they dont have sleep paralysis i have 3 cats and one dog and all of them twitch in there sleep and express indirect emotions by means of body language.
for example my dog sometimes makes a weep sound as he does when he is scared.

but if they never had an astral that does not mean they dont have an afterlife after all the astral is formed from our energy body in order for us to experience the astral.mabye they have diffrent non physical vehicles.

today at my church which is spiritulism one of the mediums who is one of the best i know said she saw a horse in the room and described it and one of the members took the horse as her old horse from the info given.
so if animals can be seen through mediumistic means then they must have some non physical energy that suvives death? 

thanx for listening n take care

[Royal-Gambit]

Ok, first of all, sleep paralysis is a defense mechanism that STOPS things from moving in their sleep. The guy from Lucidology 101 mentioned that dogs run in their sleep (and what you said above), as do we some times. He could very well be wrong, he isn't a scientist. I tend to think that no animal's brain is developed enough for spirituality.

Animals can be in the astral sure, that really doesn't mean anything. I am sorry if im not making myself clear enough. In the christian heaven animals do not have a spirit, and will not earn their way there (this can be debated i suppose), but there are animals there as well.

My main point is if an animal has that option of physical realty - whether they can get there themselves or not. My previous point was that if they don't have sleep paralysis then its unlikely that their mind has the ABILITY to leave their body. Perhaps in this way humans evolved a spirit, or everlasting life. 

If we see an animal in the astral that does NOT mean that it is an animal living on earth. We can see people in the astral that are not living on earth at the moment, ect.

Thank you guys again for your comments. This topic is quite interesting.

[Royal-Gambit]

And as far as supporting an afterlife belief, in Book religions animals cannot comprehend sin, and cannot wipe it away.

I for one think that death is a form of meditation, a mindset. That mindset is initiated by dying.

In similar topics, it is unlikely but possible i suspect that animals do not have the near death experience either. When an animal is near death/ dying do you guys think they COULD have an OBE?

[Naykid]

Ok, first of all, sleep paralysis is a defense mechanism that STOPS things from moving in their sleep. The guy from Lucidology 101 mentioned that dogs run in their sleep (and what you said above), as do we some times. He could very well be wrong, he isn't a scientist. I tend to think that no animal's brain is developed enough for spirituality.

Animals can be in the astral sure, that really doesn't mean anything. I am sorry if im not making myself clear enough. In the christian heaven animals do not have a spirit, and will not earn their way there (this can be debated i suppose), but there are animals there as well.

My main point is if an animal has that option of physical realty - whether they can get there themselves or not. My previous point was that if they don't have sleep paralysis then its unlikely that their mind has the ABILITY to leave their body. Perhaps in this way humans evolved a spirit, or everlasting life. 

If we see an animal in the astral that does NOT mean that it is an animal living on earth. We can see people in the astral that are not living on earth at the moment, ect.

Thank you guys again for your comments. This topic is quite interesting.

Christian heaven?   You've already boxed yourself in when you say that and yeah, it can be debated but heck, I'm sure there is plenty of room out there for every ones beliefs to be there for them.

I see what you mean now.  You mean a dog, cat, whatever cannot project at will.  I'd agree with that, but how about being asleep and then just floating out there.. like all people do when they sleep?  They have to have some place to go and chase rabbits.. lol 

I will say I never thought about it, but my pets that I see are dead, so... hmmmm.. and all the other animals I've encountered they seemed to be deceased as well... hmmmm. maybe they can't project whilst alive but have a permanent projection after death.  Interesting!  I never thought of it that way.

I'm sorry you had to spell it out for me, I need that sometimes, thanks for taking the time to do so.

P.S.  I did know what sleep paralysis was though..lol.  It was the other bits that had me scratching the old noggin.  thanks again.

[Fourthdimension]

gambit
i m really not sure to be perfectly honest i mean i dont know if this is relevant but when we are jorneying from work to home before we get home animals have awaremess that we are almost there like the dog would jump up and stand near the door so mabye they can project that way or mabye its just instinct

mabye they can project when they physically awake mabye ther is nt the option of getting out of the body mabye there is already another energetical body already formed the same time as the physical and they can just switch wqithoput seperation
or split conciousness

sorry if non is relevant lol i just ramble on and on lmao

[Stookie]

I think the association of AP with sleep paralysis is incorrect in the first place. You don't have to experience sleep paralysis for an AP. Your physical body can be wide awake and moving and you can have an OBE. Your astral body is always active - maybe not conscious, but active. Your physical and etheric bodies are always in constant energy-exchange with it and can't exist without it. While we're normally only conscious of our physical level, our entire being exists on all levels at all times. If you can believe this, then it makes sense that dogs exist in the astral.

Now, as far as how conscious dogs are of their astral experience is something else. We don't even know how conscious they are of their physical experience. They may be figuring it out the same way we are the astral.

But I can't call a place that has only christians an no animals "heaven". That place probably has plastic trees and muzac too.

[Invoke]

Yes every living beeing even worm can manifest in astral realm. Without spirit you even wont be able to move. Every movement consumes will. Will is aspect of spirit. And one more thing we never were trees or animals, we always will be only humans. I' am not sure if restructuration of energy bodies is possible, that is only shape anyway.

For a few months i was talking with member of OTO. I was not able to understand and do everything he says, altrought he didnt explained much, so it was hard to discuss with him. He helped me to understand what happens, to handle the situation. Few days ago i wrote message to another person. After the answers i understood he was watching me for some time, but i was able to undestand that just now. I dont think he sees me all the time, i think he knew the future from the higher formative planes where our actions are created, that i will wrote him, when he decided to know why. His advices were different, even contradictory comparised to the that magical guy - i still think here is a big possibility, that i sow him in a real life. When i look at people at streets i can see - understand it. They have something different, i just ''catch'' that moment. Magic seeks changes, its hard and painfull. But he let me understood that changes aren't needed ..?. He said how to get states of mind and feelings, that i can do that if whole my body will be in my attention ..?. I can feel whatever i want, i can be how i want. Our body has inner universe and with attention we can travel throught it.

[Royal-Gambit]

There are a lot of formulations based on the spirituality of the astral realms, but nothing is for certain. To say that all living things have an astral body otherwise they cannot move, and things related to that in nature are complete hypothesis, until proven otherwise.

Monroe had different ides about the astral realms as Robert Bruce, so to say anything definitively is not necessary or logical.

But then again there is no real truths to it all anyways, it seems that this metaphysics is quite separate from physics.

Ideas area always welcome . And thanks for comments.