hmmm very "intresting" post there,
lets see... yes you are correct they can see the futre,
and there here to teach us...but its wrong when YOU ask about the futre...
il leave it you to work that out.......[:D]
I agree with you goingslow. I also think these "aliens" are liars trying to do something bad, if they exist.
I should write about that conspiracy in awhile, since peeps here believe everything certain people say.
-Ater
quote:
Originally posted by rantboi
I agree with you goingslow. I also think these "aliens" are liars trying to do something bad, if they exist.
I should write about that conspiracy in awhile, since peeps here believe everything certain people say.
-Ater
if you want to convince people you should have a good amount of evidence.. ive put tons of posts on these forums that are long as hell and full of info. things that, to me at least, seem to irrefutably point to something, others apparently see as a large set of unrelated coincidences or just choose not to even consider the possibilities, etc... so dont think its too easy [xx(]
goingslow, i dont mean to question your experience with a pendulum, but an obvious question that you failed to cover in your post was how your yes and no answers are configured. maybe your pendulum is saying yes but you think that that particular movement is a 'no' movement?
Bah! I can't even get my Pendulum to work! It just sits there!
Yes, it's gonna take years to prove, but I'm starting my research as we speak![^] It's gonna be called The Pleiadian Conspiracy, and if I have enough stuff, and if a publisher wants to publish it, I'll turn it into a book!
The truth shall be known!
-Ater
lol rantboi good luck with that mate [:D]
i can just see you now with your sherlock homes hat and your magnifying glass!
if you really are dedicated to trying to find the "TRUTH" about pleaidians then im more than happy to lend you my tarkalien battle cruiser with my mutli dimensional phase shifter,and il draw you a map to pleaides, im sure theyl be more than happy to let you fly down and say hi!
dont know if itl have enuff power to get back, but just find my guide Mashway and im sure shel relay your findings back to me fru my magical means telepathy that goingslow has troble grasping. you really should learn to trust higher realm beings, esecially considering just how high they come from, what harm is a species that knows nothing more than peace and love, and if i was being used as a pupet then how come theve granted me the gift of energy healing overnight, when im down why do they comfort me?, when im happy why do they laugph with me?, when im tired why do they give me energy?. have they ever promised me the world-NO!, have they offerd me anything? NO,why isit that since contacting my guide shes arange little conincidences of bumping into people iv fallen out with and helping us to resovle our ishues, i now have no enemys, no dislikes, for spirtual growth cannot happen until were pysicly happy.
this really dosnt sound like the acts of a neg, in fact negs donot have the power to show me a quarter of what iv been shown because negs live on such a low dimension they do not have the power, they just drain energy and promise you the world. infact iv had many out of body training scenarios to show me just how powerless negs our to us, you mind has to become far more powerful to reach the higher realms than being fearful of a entites that can do nothing but *talk*, i could give you a million of my experiances that would show how there intensions are purely based on the advancement of man. they just want us to evolve itnto higher beings jue to all the pain and suffering in this world. do we really have to critisis such good hearted actions on a species that live to serve others?.
or is it jue to the world we live in that we find it so hard to belive, im so strongly conected to my guide id know if her intensions were bad for a start.
Why dont we just except this species for what they are really trying to do and just say thank you. instead of showing them so blaitently EXZACTLY why we kneed there help.
I dont mean to go on, but you just really are missing out on alot when you sit and sceptisise over somthing thats completly wrong. and you will miss out, and that seems a very sad shame to me. its every humans right to spirituly evolve with the assistance of one of the greatest teachers out there!
i hope in some way this has helped you to change your belives
with Love and Light
Sam and my Loving Guide Mashway
Hello Sam,
I don't wish to rain on your parade here but it is becoming more common knowledge that beings on the astral realm are not all higher beings, and do not all have good intentions. The pendulum is only a tool - very valuable if used well and carefully, but like any tool it can cause harm if the user is not careful.
My first experience with the pendulum could have turned out bad, had it not been for my own intuition, and a bit of intervention from my guide.
TO fill you in just briefly, I have known my guide for a while now. We first met face to face when she came to me in this realm, and I have been to meet her since on the astral. From our first encounter she has been communicating with me "telepathically" (though she did once speak to me audibly). I'm fairly well tuned in to her.
When I first used the pendulum, I followed all of Mayatnik's advice and procedures. I have been using the pendulum for some time as a dowsing tool for checking my chakras, so I was familiar with it's use.
The answers I was getting were very clear, but after about 10 minutes I started getting an uneasy feeling. My guide came to me in a
very clear manner and told me that the entity I was in communication with was NOT to be trusted. Now, my guide has never steared me wrong, I have known her for a while,(actually for most of my life, though I wasn't fully aware of it)and I trust her completely.
In case you were wondering, my guide does not have any one name she cares to be known by. She goes by many, but when she appeared to me she came in the form of the Green Lady. I'm not the only one to have seen her. Many have been guided by her throughout history. It is not necessary to give any more detail here.
I would dispute any claim that all astral entities that seek communication with us are good. This is just not true! If you spend some time looking through old posts in the psychic self defense or OBE experiences forums, you will see plenty of cases to support this.
ALWAYS test the spirits. This is not just biblical writings, it is good common sense. It would be naive and foolish to trust any spirit that sought communication with you, no matter what the means. Despite knowing from the very first moment who she was, I also carefully sought confirmation of my own guide after our first meeting. She was not at all upset that I did so, in fact she was happy to oblige.
By the way Sam,
quote:
im more than happy to lend you my tarkalien battle cruiser
In the World of Star Trek, I'm aware that the Tarkalians make very good tea and brandy, suffer nasty flu's, have very timid field mice and nasty razor beasts, but I'd never heard mention of their battle cruisers! [:)]
I have no wish to dispute your own experiences and findings at all. I have no reason to believe you haven't anything but good intentions. I would just like to see people here new to the world of divination and astral guides be made aware that caution is always highly recommended when venturing into the unknown.
Take care,
James.
Thanks you James! Common sense is the best!
Sam, can I use your post as an example in my research? Also, I have a question: If they are all that powerful, and have given you the power of healing "over night," why can't they help you with spelling?
-Ater
Greetings everyone,
Excellent advice all round! I have no doubts whatsoever that the pendulum works, but the advice "test your spirits" is of paramount importance!
I know we are told that the pendulum is different to a Ouija board, but the fact still remains that when it comes to spirit beings influencing the physical world, it is the very lowest beings that can and usually do this most effectively and for their own purposes.
I am not saying that the pendulum is particularly prone to this, or that high level contacts are not possible, but testing those spirits for as long as it takes is vital, otherwise the consequences could be very serious indeed.
I do think the pendulum is potentially very useful for the purpose intended, but always with the above caveat.
With best regards,
Adrian.
goingslow, you talk as if its the pendulums fault and not your own that it doesnt move. Pendulum type communication can be done in many ways and it depends on the psychic ability of the person holding it to attract something else to give answers. If you're at work, I doubt you can be relaxed enough. Try it at home in your underwear.
Won't putting the pendulum in your underware stop it from moving properly???
ROTFLMAO! That is great James. I haven't seen a real witty comment like that in a couple of weeks and it is a nice change of pace.
Goingslow - I'm interested, did you open the pendulum up to outside influences when you started using it? Or keep it entirely "your own"?
thank you for you strong observation, i really have nothing more that i can offer you as you have a very obvios small understanding about how the astral REALLY works.
its sad that you will all be sitting on the bench side dwelling in your own paranioa, witch i find quite bizzare that your on this site becuase you seek some type of higher exsistence yet your to scared to raise a finger. o well you carnt help them all. just a shame that your lack of "real" understanding damages the progress of those who wish to learn.
And James you kneed to start thining about advancing with your guide, your stuck in your own conditioning witch your guide is reacting to, it seems like you kneed some serios pointers, i did the same to my guide. they dont enjoy it very much it turns into a VERY slow learning process, nothing worse than being stuck with your guide and thinking its right....quite a prediqiment
Glad to see so many responses to this. Thanks people..
no leaf: I always ask it to give me a yes then a no before asking a question. Not each question but each session.
quote:
goingslow, you talk as if its the pendulums fault and not your own that it doesnt move. Pendulum type communication can be done in many ways and it depends on the psychic ability of the person holding it to attract something else to give answers. If you're at work, I doubt you can be relaxed enough. Try it at home in your underwear.
why dont you read more carefully beavis I didnt say my pendulum did not move. Someone else did. If you're going to respond at least read what you're responding to, especially if there's an accusation of some type in it.
James: I got an uneasy feeling too, and I have a weird feeling about the army karek is recruiting through mayatnik (no offense but thats my stance on it).
Thank yoiu for sharing your story. I get the feeling people dont want to know the truth about this because the pendulum is the closest thing many have to communicating directly with higher beings. It just doesnt seem right its that easy. And really its denial it could be anything but high level beings.
quote:
its sad that you will all be sitting on the bench side dwelling in your own paranioa, witch i find quite bizzare that your on this site becuase you seek some type of higher exsistence yet your to scared to raise a finger. o well you carnt help them all. just a shame that your lack of "real" understanding damages the progress of those who wish to learn.
And James you kneed to start thining about advancing with your guide, your stuck in your own conditioning witch your guide is reacting to, it seems like you kneed some serios pointers, i did the same to my guide. they dont enjoy it very much it turns into a VERY slow learning process, nothing worse than being stuck with your guide and thinking its right....quite a prediqiment
If you really think you're advancing seekinganswers you're in a lot of trouble.
This site has nothing to do with blind faith based on wishful thinking and desparation to advance through any being out there that calls itself a guide.
As easy and nice as it seems to get all your answers from a simple tool such as this there is a great deal of discipline or at least time needs to be taken out where a person works on themselves. Excuse me for being this blunt but be very careful. I fear someday you might join a cult if they promise they're getting their answers from a high source.
I dont get this blind faith or this belief shortcuts work. I havent found a place yet for the pendulum in the "path" im trying to take, but Id love to believe instead of working on learning through dreams and self discipline i can pull this out and have my higher self just tell me all the answers. Unfortunately, I've gotten to the point where Im not able to fool myself that easily.
Im very happy to see some skepticism on this board. I was a little taken aback by the blind faith a lot of people seem to be showing. I mean dont you have your own guide? How many people has Karek now chosen for something?
Inguma could you tell me what the difference is. By that I mean how do you open yourself to things around you vs just inside you? My problem was I asked it if it could tell me, and I asked it if it would. If it was okay to tell me.. all answers "yes".
why couldnt it just say no? I dont get the games some of these advanced beings play.
Sam,
quote:
And James you kneed to start thining about advancing with your guide, your stuck in your own conditioning witch your guide is reacting to, it seems like you kneed some serios pointers, i did the same to my guide. they dont enjoy it very much it turns into a VERY slow learning process, nothing worse than being stuck with your guide and thinking its right....quite a prediqiment
I do not understand where you're coming from here at all.[?]
Is this comment because my guide told me not to trust something coming trough from the pendulum? Does it concern you that there are other entities in the astral that are able to communicate with us in ways that are outside of your experiences? Your comments in your last post come across as saying "because you think differently to me you've all got it wrong."
My guide came to me
in person. I have met her a few times and talked to her face to face. I feel her presence quite often and hear her words in my mind when she has guidance and instructions for me. I have learned things from her that I could not have possibly known myself and have recieved great benefit from a close and loving relationship with her. I have had confirmation from other sources as to just who and what she is, and I have confidence in her truthfullness and guidance.
My goal now is to be able to spend more time with her in person, and as I have had some experience with astral phasing which is how I've come to meet with her on occasions, I know this is not only possible, it's the best way I can think of "advancing" our relationship. To this end I am learning what I need to know, and discovering a great many other things along the way, as I always like to keep my mind open to other possibilities.
I'm sorry if I seem to be coming across a little harsh here, but I am getting the distinct impression that you and others are becoming locked into a mindset of the "Pleidian way". I have no problem with you choosing to follow this way if it is something that you have found to be working for you, and is good for you, but you do not seem to be accepting that there are other ways. You do not seem to accept that there are people here who have developed their own relationships with guides in their own ways - other entities on the astral that can guide us, and that there are many more paths to spiritual growth and enlightenment than the one that you are pushing upon us since you followed Mayatnik to this site.
If you wish to be closed to other possibilities, that is your choice, but please do not expect the rest of us to follow blindly based on what you say as being "the truth".
We learn best if we base our beliefs on what we have personally experienced. My relationship with my guide, and therefore my belief in what she tells me is based on my personal experiences. For me, these experiences are real, and can be trusted.
Kind regards,
James.
Dear Goingslow,
You are testing the pendulum and as a result you are receiving wrong answers. You will continue to receive wrong answers as long as you continue to test the pendulum rather than test WITH the pendulum. This is not breaking news, it has been said countless times before and not only on this site. I invite you to do some research on the pendulum and how it has been used by dowsers for centuries. It is a well documented fact that the pendulum has never worked for anyone who does not respect it. Lack of respect in this case refers to testing the pendulum rather than testing WITH the pendulum. There is a big difference.
Consider the following analogy. Your first day at university you approach the lecturer after the class. If you seek to learn from the lecturer and show respect for his qualifications then it is safe so think that the lecturer will answer your questions with the intention of teaching you what it is you want to learn. It is his job to teach after all. On the other hand, if you wish nothing more than to question the intelligence of the lecturer, do you imagine he will be concerned with whether or not you learn anything?
Let us take the scenario of child questioning adult as a further example. We are but children (infants actually) in terms of galactic evolution. Children are curious by nature and naturally ask many, many questions as this is how they learn. This is how adults learn too, if only they would realise it. A caring adult will answer with honesty the questions of a curious child. The child is just trying to learn. The child does not try to test the adult to see what they know. Well, actually some do but they are not humored for long.
"What does 2+2 equal?"
"Five"
"No, it doesn't"
"Then why did you ask?"
The difference between children and adults here is that the child will soon realise that he/she will learn nothing without changing their approach. There is much we can learn from children.
quote:
Anyway I have time in the beginning of work so every now and then i'll ask questions. My pendulum has been consistently wrong.. and very wrong. For example there was about a 50/50 chance my boss would come into work today. I asked the pendulum if it was able to foresee the future it answered yes. I asked if my boss was coming in today it answered no. Then an hour later he is in the office. This has happened around 5 times already. Ive asked it many other questions when it was outright wrong.
If you wish to look at this from a non-biased stance you will see quite clearly that to be consistently wrong when there is a 50/50 chance of being right shows intelligence. It looks very similar to the child-adult scenario above does it not?
In your response to SeekingAnswers you wrote;
quote:
I was a little taken aback by the blind faith a lot of people seem to be showing. I mean dont you have your own guide?
Do not presume that because a person writes as if they have an understanding of things that you do not that they are victim to blind faith. Sam does have a guide yes...MASHWAY... but what has that got to do with what you are trying to say?
You also wrote;
quote:
How many people has Karek now chosen for something?
ONE. Karek selected me for the work I am doing now. I accepted the job.
quote:
I even saw one say that mayatnik's guide now told him to do certain tasks etc.
I assume you are referring to me as there is no one else. I have been told to do nothing. I do what I do because it is what I choose to do. You insult my intelligence.
quote:
I got an uneasy feeling too, and I have a weird feeling about the army karek is recruiting through mayatnik (no offense but thats my stance on it).
Army of one? Interesting that.
You go on to say;
quote:
As easy and nice as it seems to get all your answers from a simple tool such as this there is a great deal of discipline or at least time needs to be taken out where a person works on themselves.
I couldn't agree with you more! Above all else the pendulum is a tool for inner-development which requires great time and effort. The tool may be simple to use but it does not make the work of inner-development an overnight process.
quote:
I dont get this blind faith or this belief shortcuts work. I havent found a place yet for the pendulum in the "path" im trying to take, but Id love to believe instead of working on learning through dreams and self discipline i can pull this out and have my higher self just tell me all the answers. Unfortunately, I've gotten to the point where Im not able to fool myself that easily.
Who ever said you need to have blind faith or recommended short-cuts? You are quite right that this is not the way to go. Everyone must learn for themselves. Thank you for re-enforcing that point. Perhaps now it will be clear.
With best regards,
Dave
Hello, folks! Here's a little update on the conspiracy.
What I've Noticed About Pleiadian Followers:
-They claim to have the "truth"
-They always have some kind of a guide
-Blind faith is the way to the afore mentioned "truth"
-Some of them spend hours on the computer trying to convert (oops, educate) people
-Some of them are mentally ill
-And, some look like evil demons, or something to that effect (there's proof for this one, I promise!)
More to come! I'll post these things in their own topic from now on!
-Ater
quote:
Originally posted by goingslow
Inguma could you tell me what the difference is. By that I mean how do you open yourself to things around you vs just inside you? My problem was I asked it if it could tell me, and I asked it if it would. If it was okay to tell me.. all answers "yes".
why couldnt it just say no? I dont get the games some of these advanced beings play.
Hey!!
The difference is between asking a part of you (subconscious mind), or directing the questions to something outside of you (eg higher self, guides, negs, etc etc etc).
Well, if there is something playing games with you and giving mostly incorrect answers, I think we can safely say its NOT a higher being! Just because something is astral, doesn't mean its necessarily good, as James pointed out.
Speaking of which! James.....WOW!!! In a stroke you've altered my perception of the whole "guides" issue. What are your feelings on the topic as a whole - comparing with new agey philosophies etc?
Its a big ol' universe I guess....
cheers
Rob
Rob, I'm not entirely sure which particular flavour of new-agey philosophy you have in mind, but I'll have a go anyway.
I'm going to sound a bit hypocritical here, like someone who drives a Lamborghini telling people the whole car thing is overrated.
The trouble I see is so many people are hooked on the notion of getting a guide, but they haven't stopped to think about why they need one. The higher spirits seem to be a pretty discerning lot. From my own experience, and those of others I've spoken to, these entities seem to know best when we need them, will usually come to us, not the other way around, and they need to see that you have a pretty darn good reason to be in their company.
I know Frank has spoken in the past about guides - about being in the astral and asking with with clear purpose to have a guide come to help you, and indeed he has found that many astral spirits are quite willing. Mind you, if you're at that level with astral travel, I've no doubt you'd be considered well and truly ready to have a guide.
For the less experienced though, it is far better to look inwards for guidance first rather than outwards. That is, people need to deal with their own internal issues first - learn who they are, learn to be at peace with who they are, and learn to have good control over their conscious thought processes before seeking outside guidance. Otherwise all the conflicting signals coming from within will drown out any messages coming from outside. Self talk and a confused subconcious can very easily substitute themselves for percieved messages from a guide.
When you have a guide though, its like being in a close caring trusting relationship. Not sexual (up go the sighs from the younger male members of the audience [:)]), as its beyond what you would find in a human relationship. It's well beyond a master-apprentice type relationship also. Your guide can become an important part of your life, not just a source of information that you access when you need to. Wether I acknowledge it or not, my guide is always with me. Sometimes guiding me, sometimes comforting me, or sometimes laughing at me if I do something really dumb (they're not above that you know).
I hope that's more or less what you were looking for Rob, otherwise I've waffled off the point completely. [:I]
You're right....it is a big ol' universe, and we know far less about it than we'd like to think we do!
Take care,
James.
Parmenion,
So in other words I have to have blind faith in it first then I can accept all the answers as fact and then know its the truth. Does that seem wrong to anyone else? If these beings are so hurt they're going to teach me a lesson because I dare to be skeptical then how advanced can they be. I expect more from advanced beings on the astral.
Everything i've read so far has stated if you dont believe its the truth right away you wont get truthful answers BECAUSE you dont believe its the truth. Let me try to put that in an analogy to show why thats so backwards. Let's say I claim to know everything there is to know. So there are some sceptics out there that start testing me by asking me questions. Because they dont take it on my word I know it all I can say I only gave the wrong answers because they were testing me?
I still dont get it and I admit I think the whole thing is kind of weird. I dont have a guide Im in contact like Jameswith but to me I think its fine to realize on your own this is not the kind of guide you want. I have had contact with beings in the astral via lucid dreams and OBE's and the ones I trust more are the ones that dont get offended when I question them or dont take their word. Shouldnt they understand that's my nature by now? Are they going to trick me to teach me a lesson about blind faith?
It seems up to now people only have credibility if their other guide told them not to trust these people. Maybe in a more subtle way something's telling me the pendulum doesnt have some magical barrier which keeps entities away that dont have my best interest in mind.. either way I just "Know" this is the case. But seeing as how I cant question it because the act of questioning alone is disrespectful It seems I have two choices.
1. Dont use it
2. Use it but take for granted its telling the truth...otherwise it will lie.
I guess Ill just stop using it for now until I get some more solid information on how it works. I might take your advice Parmenian and look up some books on the subject.
I would think if some being came through that really was a guide and an entity that had love for me and cared about my welfare it would be grateful Im trying to make sure it is who he/she says he/she is. Do you get mad at your kid for checking through the peephole before opening the door. Wouldnt you tell him/her to always take every precaution? Its for their own good in the end. Why would you get mad at start testing them back? And we're talking about higher beings here.
take care.
quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
quote:
How many people has Karek now chosen for something?
ONE. Karek selected me for the work I am doing now. I accepted the job.
quote:
I even saw one say that mayatnik's guide now told him to do certain tasks etc.
I assume you are referring to me as there is no one else. I have been told to do nothing. I do what I do because it is what I choose to do. You insult my intelligence.
quote:
I got an uneasy feeling too, and I have a weird feeling about the army karek is recruiting through mayatnik (no offense but thats my stance on it).
Army of one? Interesting that.
Doesnt it feel good to be "chosen" though Parmenion? Especially for the task of answering what Mayatnik is too busy to answer now. Course he is working on your spiritual enlightenment so its a win win situation.
Army of one? How many people are on the "the truth shall be known thread" who knew Mayatnik prior. I know of at least three. One of his most loyal followers being seekingansers. Will you be following when its time to spread the truth to another messageboard? seems you have no choice since by then he will have done much work on your spiritual enlightenment plus Im sure karek will appreciate it.
Hope you still come back here though, although Im afraid by then you'll be too advanced.
The lure in these things is always the same.. "you were chosen".
take care.
James!
Thanks for that - a wonderful post! And yes, it does completely answer my question, along with confirming that you really do know what you are talking about! [:)] Which makes you the first person who I have met online in that position with a guide, who has properly explained it to me.
ag...gotta run
laterz
Rob
Dear Goingslow,
It would seem that no matter what I write your eyes will continue to glaze over the words I use to say that I do not and never have told anyone that what is required here is 'blind faith'. I have seen the product of 'blind faith' first hand and you are missing my point entirely. What is required is that you do not take the answers as being correct, even if you feel sure that they are. The pendulum gives wrong answers as a means for you to learn. It is a teaching tool and teaches by encouraging deep investigation and not just handing you the answers on a plate. As I am sure you are aware, inner-development is paramount to spiritual progress. Inner-development cannot be achieved through a series of fast answers and quick fix solutions. I know we live in a society where everything has to be done yesterday but the pendulum is not a means to avoid doing the necessary work on yourself. While it has the potential to enable excellent spiritual development in a relatively short space of time, it is by no means easy work.
You assume that the pendulum 'gets offended' because it gives you wrong answers. To clarify again, these 'wrong' answers are given to teach. I should say that I have never before seen so many assumptions made and conclusions jumped to as I have done in the last couple of weeks. You suggest that "these beings are so hurt they're going to teach me a lesson because I dare to be skeptical". What is it about the way that I write that you find so hard to understand? Are there little 'trigger' words in my paragraphs that set your conditioning to red alert? I mean no offense here, we have all been subject to conditioning to varying degrees throughout our life. This is why inner-work is so important before any real progress can be made.
The guides have indeed got our best interests at heart. Just because you may not understand the reasoning for what they do does not mean they are trying to 'trick' you or lead you astray. Does the child understand why his responsible parent won't let him play on the construction site?Despite what your ego may tell you, you do not always know what is best for you.
Since when is it wrong for people to voice their support for another. Your attitude towards this is typical of a person with as much cynicism and sarcasm that you possess. Again, I mean no offense by this, I am sure you know yourself pretty well by now. Three people on a thread that is nineteen pages long is by no means a multitude.
With respect, I point out the fact that Frank has a far greater 'support' on these forums. I have voiced my appreciation of his posts myself in the past.
Your 'concern' for my welfare is misplaced in these last paragraphs of yours;
quote:
Doesnt it feel good to be "chosen" though Parmenion? Especially for the task of answering what Mayatnik is too busy to answer now. Course he is working on your spiritual enlightenment so its a win win situation.
Will you be following when its time to spread the truth to another messageboard? seems you have no choice since by then he will have done much work on your spiritual enlightenment plus Im sure karek will appreciate it.
Hope you still come back here though, although Im afraid by then you'll be too advanced.
The lure in these things is always the same.. "you were chosen".
You assume too much and know too little. With all sincerity I say that I hope you find your way, whatever that may be.
With best regards,
Dave
You're not blonde?????[:O]
That's ok Chill, I still like you anyway.[^]
[:)]
James.
I think part of the problem is the defensiveness I see when the tool is questioned.
quote:
The guides have indeed got our best interests at heart. Just because you may not understand the reasoning for what they do does not mean they are trying to 'trick' you or lead you astray. Does the child understand why his responsible parent won't let him play on the construction site?Despite what your ego may tell you, you do not always know what is best for you.
Its so ridiculus to say the guide teaches you with wrong answers. Its illogical and its nothing more than explaining the mistakes away by such condescending BS as "they know what's good for you trust them".
Plus in your statement you're taking for granted the person is your guide. Since testing wont do any good the blind faith is the fact you have blind faith the entity coming through is a loving guide. Do you not agree with anything that's been said by many people about testing and making sure whats coming through is doing so with your best interest? Did you read James' post? The blind faith im talking about is taking for granted the being is who they say they are.
Again if you cant test it because it will give you wrong answers because its your guide and it knows best.. then anything that must come through must be a guide. yadda yadda. I feel a dead horse is being beaten.
Ill be honest I see all this stuff as being very cultish.. not the pendulum itself, but the way in which it's being advocated here along with promising various people enlightenment through mayatnik's guide Karek. maybe its just the caliber of person who has followed him here but seekinganswers definitely has that "i'd do anything for my Master" feel about him/her.
I dont feel that about many people but its a hunch and the way in which people explain everything away coupled with the extreme defensiveness leaves no doubt in my mind. Im glad you were chosen to be one of his disciples. Maybe its best for you, but I have every right to question the "truth" the great karek is sharing with so many people.
Im just going to step away from this topic. This type of thing is disturbing but I guess it comes with the territory and maybe it is what some people need.
chill thanks for the kind comments. I enjoyed reading your comments on the "truth shall be known" thread. I found some of the responses you got very interesting to say the least.
quote:
Posted by Goingslow
Its so ridiculus to say the guide teaches you with wrong answers. Its illogical and its nothing more than explaining the mistakes away by such condescending BS as "they know what's good for you trust them".
My exeperiences tend to agree with you. I have never been given a deliberately wrong answer. Instead I get the silence accompanied with knowing smile that says to me "I'm not going to tell you. This is something you need to find out for yourself."
Guides do have an annoying habit of withholding information. This is how we learn though, by not getting everything spoon fed to us. The idea of disinformation, even just to see if we are awake, to me is totally out of character with what I've come to know about them.
All the best,
James.
Hello everybody
Please, calm down here!
I've never seen so much negativity on one thread, really! You made me feel VERY bad when I read this thread not because you don't like the pendulum but because you are doing everything you can to STOP people from using it! Please, stop doing this, stop being so mean and selfish to each other. Alright, we have different opinions, but hey do we have to kill each others in order to make our opinion heard louder?! That is so childish. Wouldn't we have better results if we cooperated, exchanged opinions, shared experiences, helped each other, ,and in the end combine our truths to find the single ultimate truth? After all isn't this the purpose of the forums? Or is it maybe to fight each other and be as negative as possible?!
Mayatnik showed a path, you may choose to follow it or not. It's entirely your call. But please, you don't have the right to frighten people new to this, yes people should be shown both sides of a coin I believe that, but in a more calmed manner. Say your opinion but remain neutral, you have no right I repeat, to take people's chance to verify the truth for themselves. Don't play with people's fears (or dreams)
Imagine if you were a newbie and came right down on this forum, what would you think? I would run as fast as I could from this site! (Administrators consider this) We have enough negativity in our life without this adding more! People fighting over who's opinion is the best is not my idea of "advancing spiritually"
Please, I repeat calm down! I confess I have my doubts as well, and this is a result of all the negativity in my life so far. I am trying to suppress it, don't make things harder for me and all the other members as well! I am not sure if this is the right path, but I will see for myself... As I said I have my doubts and fears as all beginners do (every beginning is hard, for me at least) but I try to be positive, alert and optimistic. I do not allow myself to be made a fool that's why I trust myself and my intuition first and then maytnik or goingslow or anybody else!
My advice to newbies such as myself is, read the facts and the experiences and keep clear of the negativity. Consider the facts, act on your intuition... Follow your own path, find your own truth , have your own experiences..
P.S For those interested in finding out more about the Pleiadians, I've found this book called "Bringers of the Dawn" by Barbara Marciniak and you can download it for free here
www.universe-people.com/bringers.htm
I haven't read it yet, but it seems very interesting, you may want to check it out sometime cause it might help
Malvina :)
Hmm, this topic dissapoints me. I agree with WalkingThePath in every manner, for you cannot give doubts and false judgement to something you know nothing about and have no real knowledge about.
I have been using the pendulum for almost a week, and with the help of Mayatnik, Parmenion, Karek, Samuel, and many others, have learned so much about myself and my inner-spirituality. I also have found my spirit/teacher guide that has shown himself to me, and I can tell you that Mayatnik is not trying to spread blind faith, but rather help this community as a whole. My guide's name is Lithan, and without Mayatnik's help, I never would have known he even existed, and would have gone on living life as blind as the ignorant subjects that are conformed to the 'rules' set on our arrogant society. Please, don't give such false hopes to people, for you may ruin many peoples chances to seek out and find inner truth.
Seek your own truths, let those who really matter teach you.
Best wishes to all,
Cryo and Lithan, my trusting and loving guide.
So i'm to give my opinion, but stay neutral? Okay please tell me how else I should give my opinion.
This topic here is simple. I saw a lot of lying going on or at least reassuring people that nothing negative can come through the pendulum. That they can trust it is a guide of some sort.
This is extremely irresponsible. I doubt the mods will get rid of this topic seeing as how they do value free speech. Another problem with the thread was the way in which anyone who had a bad experience was treated. Timeless was told off by one of mayatnik's followers for saying she doesn't like the pendulum.
People need to make informed decisions and I dont need to try to pretend im neutral because people might be scared. Whether you feel bad and have more doubts after reading this really isn't my concern. What's important is if the warnings are true then maybe people will think before contacting their "guides" and seeking truth blindly.
That topic had been going for a long time before I chose to say anything. Already a regular member here had been recruited. If warnings bother you then just read all the posts by the many devout believers in "the truth shall be known thread". Most people with doubts were told they weren't welcome there. I put this here so people would be free to express their doubts here. And its not a requirement to remain neutral. Why would it be? When are opinions ever neutral?
One more thing... I did not say I thought a negative entity or anything like that was coming through. I simply haven't found the answer of how do you KNOW its a guide. If the guide cant be tested because it has been stated they give wrong answers for your benefit how can they claim to know its a guide?
It's really just a question. I realize it's hard to answer but part of that is in all honesty you cant KNOW its a guide.
Nice post Malvina, Alex AND goingslow - this reminds me of how a forum really needs to be so that we all can learn something other than how to offend someone more than he offended you.
Nice.. keep the posts coming,
Thawon
Hey goingslow,
There is a way of being neutral and expressing your feelings and opinion...It is done in a civilized and unbiased way...What i see here is not civilized, it's out of control. People are being MEAN to each other just for having different opinions!
What i was wondering is, have you searched about Pleiadians, have you read anything else about the pendulum, or are you just saying whatever comes on your mind? I have not read much yet, but i will, before i decide what my next step will be. When you say mayatnik's followers, what do you mean? I don't much understand it...
From what i have heard mayatnik is a channeler and is not the only pleiadian channeler in the world.
I know that the pendulum has been use for quite some time now, for hundred's of years, and the "theory" about the pleiadians existed a long time ago. it is not something that Mayatnik just "came up with"
Please study a bit before you say things that you are not aware of...Think about it...Isn't there a chance that there could be some truth in Mayatnik's words? Something you could benefit from maybe?
I never said that this topic should be erased, it's your right to say what you want but it's our right to be free .I had a bad epxerience with the pendulum, i wasn't offended to be told what MIGHT have gone wrong. Instead i considered it, used my intuition and now i'm still thinking what to do next.
And something else, if you read close enough at mayatnik's posts you would notice that getting assigned a guide is not something done overnight. By no means will a guide just pop up if you are not totally ready as they say.
Scaring people off, should be of your concern,especially if you are scaring them with only what you think and believe. if you had something valid to say except your own views and thoughts, then that would be a fair warning to all of us and we would ever be thankful.
Please don't use the word recruited...it sounds so stupid really...Don't you mean that he found some truth in what mayatnik said and went out to verify it for himself, open-minded, and then got some results, so simply believed it? This is not blind faith i think...
I myself don't see anything wrong with that...but still you may see it from a different perspective right?
As for the not welcome part, could you show me where and under what conditions it was said? I can't search all the thread now... I don't think Mayatnik or Parmerion would say such a thing though but still...people may ran out of patience at some point or another, they are humans after all...
Now i don't want to start fighting with ANY of you, because i find it all very childish and meaningless. If you have a fact that will become the cause of a serious logical warning then as i said say it, but please don't just post beliefs and thoughts, all they do is to send us negative thoughts, so thanks but no thanks
Malvina, age 14
Im sorry for dwelling on semantics, but I dont see how an opinion can be unbiased. By nature an opinion is a viewpoint and all viewpoints are biased. Or else it wouldnt be an opinion but "staying out of it".
Ive never represented my opinions as being anything other than just that. Ive never said they come from anywhere, but my own mind. No channelling here just my thoughts. So im not sure what logical proof you're talking about or why I should be quiet until I have more sources than my own brain.
I think what you're saying is I should save my opinion and not voice it. Its the opinion that is offensive isnt it?
quote:
Originally posted by WalkingThePath
Please don't use the word recruited...it sounds so stupid really...Don't you mean that he found some truth in what mayatnik said and went out to verify it for himself, open-minded, and then got some results, so simply believed it? This is not blind faith i think...
Good point, he was chosen not recruited.
Sorry for deviating from the venom spewing but I have a question.
Are all guides Plaedian? I questioned mine and it says its not. Plaidians are out there, but that he/she is not one of them.
On the question of teaching through wrong awnsers, I can see how that can be done. If someone asks me a stupid question with a bad attitude or too insistently I will give them a wrong awnser. That way when they find themselves in error they will ask in a more positive attitude and in a proper way. I'm sure these guides get ticked off at stupid questions. Also a wrong awnser can be seen as puting a stop to a fruitless sideroad in one's path. A series of them will make you change direction. Specialy when they are consistently (i.e. >50%) wrong.
That said, I have to add that all one gets from the pendulum should be taken and analyzed in the context of the rest of your experience. The pendulum is not a substitute for common sense, but it can aid you in your pursuits. It can tap to the wisdom of your own subconscious, as well as from guides using your subconscious for communication. But it is just a point of data in a full picture. I don't belive the pendulum should be anyones EXCLUSIVE source for wisdom. This should help to keep most from cults and ritualistic KoolAid.
quote:
Originally posted by travelinbob
.
On the question of teaching through wrong awnsers, I can see how that can be done. If someone asks me a stupid question with a bad attitude or too insistently I will give them a wrong awnser. That way when they find themselves in error they will ask in a more positive attitude and in a proper way. I'm sure these guides get ticked off at stupid questions. Also a wrong awnser can be seen as puting a stop to a fruitless sideroad in one's path. A series of them will make you change direction. Specialy when they are consistently (i.e. >50%) wrong.
I guess i was taking the "higher being" thing too literally. Maybe they do get angry if you dont ask the right way.
Hi Travelinbob,
In answer to your first question, I can say with absolute certainty that my guide is definitely not a Pleiadian. There are guides who are actually representations of a persons higher self, and there are guides who are the spirits of humans who have lived on earth before. My wife has been made aware of the existance of her guide who is the latter, though she has not met him yet.
As to the question about teaching through wrong answers, I have my doubts about this. From what I've experienced so far it is not in the character of a spirit guide to deliberately mislead just to see if you are paying attention. This to me is a human concept, and we should be wary of ascribing human psychology to the thinking of higher spirit beings. Typically they will give no answer at all, indicating that this is something you need to work out for yourself. Some information from guides seems to be on a "need to know" only basis. [:)]
Malvina,
Please see this discussion as being merely a difference of opinions. There have been many such discussions on this forum, some of which can get rather heated, but it still is just opinions. I don't think an opposing view to a subject should be labelled as negativity.
You should have seen on this topic asrguments presented by myself, by Adrian the forum's administrator, by Timeless, who by the way has been experienced at divination using a pendulum long before this whole subject came to light, and others who are not negative on the subject, but are trying to make newcomers aware that when dealing in areas that can involve channelling, caution must be used.
It is irresponsible of anyone to say outright "it's ok to do this, all higher beings are trustworthy." Such a statement is untrue, as maybe higher beings are trustworthy, but lower astral entities, who have just as much if not more access to someone trying to channel the spirits, are a definite hazzard. The concequences of someone inadvertently channeling a negative entity thinking they are a higher spirit guide can be disasterous for that person. A neg can give just as many correct answers through a pendulum in order for them to gain your trust as a higher spirit.
This is not saying you should not use a pendulum, this is saying you should use it with caution, and KNOW who or what it is you are communicating with.
As to my thoughts on the Pleiadians, I've seen a lot of info for and against them, and the arguments given by people on either side has tended to leave me a bit cold, so I think I will stay neutral on this subject.
My interests here are making sure that people use a bit of common sense when dealing with the unknown, and practice a bit of basic caution, especially as channelling can be risky. True higher beings will not be offended if you wish to test them for thier trustworthyness.
Kind regards,
James.
I think the fact James, Timeless, Adrian and Inguma all issued warnings ANYTHING can come through speaks for itself. I think the fact seekinganswers, silentwitness78 as well as many others who followed mayatnik here were so angry with opposing opinions and extremely defensive speaks volumes.
I think it is only natural when you are part of a board and someone comes on promising them instant enlightenment. Turning one into someone who suddenly thinks he's an enlightened person even though his comments are filled with nonsense ..well a few will be a little cautious and maybe even alarmed.
Mayatnik claimed this wasnt channeling.. he put no real precautions. I even bought a deck of tarot cards where they put a few things to do to make sure only positive beings come true. There was none of that.. just promises when it lies it is for your own good.. and Mayatnik in the background working on people's spiritual training and selecting certain ones to become channelers. I couldnt help being alarmed but people have to learn for themselves.
I did my share of warning as did others now its time to let all the people who were so angry at those warnings go and play.
Have fun with this tool that connects you with someone who loves you, will take care of you, and lead you in the right direction. I fear mayatnik may lead some of you places you really dont want to go, but thats where free will comes in.
This board really isnt about this cult mentality to me and its effecting me now seeing all of it. I hope you're not forced to learn a lesson you weren't fully disclosed on but that may happen. Either way Im going back to the OBE boards and I'll stop bothering any of you with pesky warnings and opinions of caution.
Take care..
P.S.
Ill say this again, but im sure someone else will say I say this cus I dislike the pendulum. As far as I can see its a neutral tool, as most here have said. The problem was the lack of caution or information given. I dont know the motives but its irresponsible.
James, You say:
quote:
As to the question about teaching through wrong answers, I have my doubts about this. From what I've experienced so far it is not in the character of a spirit guide to deliberately mislead just to see if you are paying attention. This to me is a human concept, and we should be wary of ascribing human psychology to the thinking of higher spirit beings. Typically they will give no answer at all, indicating that this is something you need to work out for yourself. Some information from guides seems to be on a "need to know" only basis.
In your case, it seems to be that someone is pulling your leg through the pendulum. Whether its malicious or mischiefous, you have to find out.
On the abscribed psychology, yes you are right that to assume they have the same neurosis as us would be naive. But they might take our neurosis in consideration when communicating. They might have to play down to our relative mental immaturity by using these wrong awnser stretches in order to get the bigger picture across to us. They might have to "trick" us into learning. Like a teacher that uses games to make the children more open to the learning process. Priming the mind for learning, per se. Just a theory! [:D]
Sounds like a reasonable theory Travelinbob.
Kind of like the idea of teaching through reverse psychology. Must be a bugger for some guides to get the hang of some people's ways of thinking [:)]
It would be a fair assumption that guides have as many different ways of teaching as we have of thinking.
James.
I have used the pendulum off and on since that one thread was posted by Mayatnik. At first I was impressed, then a little weirded out by things like people asking mayatnik's guide all sorts of things. I even saw one say that mayatnik's guide now told him to do certain tasks etc.
Anyway I have time in the beginning of work so every now and then i'll ask questions. My pendulum has been consistently wrong.. and very wrong. For example there was about a 50/50 chance my boss would come into work today. I asked the pendulum if it was able to foresee the future it answered yes. I asked if my boss was coming in today it answered no. Then an hour later he is in the office. This has happened around 5 times already. Ive asked it many other questions when it was outright wrong.
First question, how do you banish a being from you? I know 13 talked about it some but now i see why a person would want to do that. It has been wrong way too many times and in some cases even deceitful.
I really hope people aren't blindly thinking everything coming through is the "truth" because so far barely anything has been right when I've tried it. Im a little disappointed I have to admit.. I am however interested in knowing how to determine who's on the other side. And how to request a certain person.