Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: kutabare on December 01, 2003, 11:56:42
Post by: kutabare on December 01, 2003, 11:56:42
Please Would anyone reply if they agree with my opinion or not?
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: James S on December 01, 2003, 13:56:46
Post by: James S on December 01, 2003, 13:56:46
Hi Kutabare
I've deleted the copy of this post that you put in the energ forum. No need for two of these.
As for agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion....don't know. I'm confused! I can't grasp the connection between water, which like all matter has thee possible states (four if you include a plasma state), and body, soul & spirit. I don't see these as three separate states. I see them as three essential components of the whole.
Regards,
James.
I've deleted the copy of this post that you put in the energ forum. No need for two of these.
As for agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion....don't know. I'm confused! I can't grasp the connection between water, which like all matter has thee possible states (four if you include a plasma state), and body, soul & spirit. I don't see these as three separate states. I see them as three essential components of the whole.
Regards,
James.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: kutabare on December 01, 2003, 14:14:16
Post by: kutabare on December 01, 2003, 14:14:16
Well what I mean is that water has 3 main stages
liquid solid gas
and we have 3 main systems that run like water
body soul spirit
spirit=gas
soul=liquid
body=solid
and if we have these trates then why not control water like we control energy and ourselves?
liquid solid gas
and we have 3 main systems that run like water
body soul spirit
spirit=gas
soul=liquid
body=solid
and if we have these trates then why not control water like we control energy and ourselves?
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: Nagual on December 01, 2003, 15:04:56
Post by: Nagual on December 01, 2003, 15:04:56
What do you mean by soul and why is it = to liquid...?
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: kutabare on December 02, 2003, 09:22:26
Post by: kutabare on December 02, 2003, 09:22:26
I put it that way to express that our soul fills our body that which is a container and our spirit is the air we breathe without any of these we die.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: Logic on December 02, 2003, 14:26:10
Post by: Logic on December 02, 2003, 14:26:10
What about ether.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: kakkarot on December 03, 2003, 11:43:41
Post by: kakkarot on December 03, 2003, 11:43:41
quote:well why don't oranges control water then? they have a great scent (gas), delicious juice (liquid), and well not-so-nice-tasting skin (solid). yet they cannot control water: why is that?
Originally posted by kutabare
and if we have these trates then why not control water like we control energy and ourselves?
consciousness. that is what is different from us to water (or oranges [|)]). perhaps we can become like water enough that we can affect it, but we are still fundamentally different in that we have something water does not. perhaps we can use the portion of ourself that is not so different from water, but then whether we could affect the water would be based upon whether or not it is possible and whether or not we learn how.
i've seen people do rather strange things, much of which bends/breaks the rules of nature as mundane people know those rules. perhaps we can freeze water, why not try it and find out?
~kakkarot
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: PyroPsion69 on December 03, 2003, 16:47:48
Post by: PyroPsion69 on December 03, 2003, 16:47:48
Sigh. I thought they fixed this when they got rid of the energy forum...
Alright, the human subconcious is very powerful, and can do amazing things, but it has LIMITS. Yes, granted, you could cool the air to a cold enough temperature to freeze water. BUT there are three things preventing you from doing this, to some degree.
1) Skill. The mind is only as good as much as you practice with it. I've been in the field about a year, and I can OCCASIONALLY affect the weather a little bit. It would take a very dedicated individual a very long time to cool the air temperature 40 degrees lower than room temp.
2) Physics. Water has a high specific heat, meaning you have to move large amounts of heat to get X grams to change temperature. It would require incredibly stupid amounts of heat removed to cool that much water.
3) Humidity. Unless it was raining, one would not have enough water available to freeze out of the air.
So there you have it. It can be done, but practically impossible.
Alright, the human subconcious is very powerful, and can do amazing things, but it has LIMITS. Yes, granted, you could cool the air to a cold enough temperature to freeze water. BUT there are three things preventing you from doing this, to some degree.
1) Skill. The mind is only as good as much as you practice with it. I've been in the field about a year, and I can OCCASIONALLY affect the weather a little bit. It would take a very dedicated individual a very long time to cool the air temperature 40 degrees lower than room temp.
2) Physics. Water has a high specific heat, meaning you have to move large amounts of heat to get X grams to change temperature. It would require incredibly stupid amounts of heat removed to cool that much water.
3) Humidity. Unless it was raining, one would not have enough water available to freeze out of the air.
So there you have it. It can be done, but practically impossible.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: kutabare on December 04, 2003, 10:06:50
Post by: kutabare on December 04, 2003, 10:06:50
yes very good perception ,only 2 problems.
every where we are the is at least 1 percent humidity so that means we can "freeze 5 gallons of water no matter where we are at.
second, i was thinking that you could absorb the heat energy to add to your own and ground your self so that you equil yourself out.
every where we are the is at least 1 percent humidity so that means we can "freeze 5 gallons of water no matter where we are at.
second, i was thinking that you could absorb the heat energy to add to your own and ground your self so that you equil yourself out.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: NecroGod on December 04, 2003, 11:18:25
Post by: NecroGod on December 04, 2003, 11:18:25
Initially, a short answer, what I believe:
Yes, it is possible to impressively freeze water and project it at will.
The long answer:
It is highly improbable that anyone will achieve the ammount of focus and infliction of will necessary to do it in this life. Further more, if somone were that advanced, they would probably have long outgrown the need for physical existance anyway. [:)]
For amusement's sake:
I'm going to take a few liberties with what is known to be true, so far as metaphysics, magick and higher beings are concerned. (I figure we all in some respect must believe in these things if we're reading this).
For my refference on the higher beings I'm reffering to, I'm going to use "Summoning Spirits: The Art of Magical Evocation" by Konstantinos.
First, whoever wants to control these forces will have to become very proficient in manupilation of a few key things. To do this, said person will obviously need to incorporate some heavy aid from some much more viable source to this information. Hence the higher beings.
Initially you will need to learn to control moisture, the 'fuel' for your icey experiment. For this the spirit known as "Nichsa" can be used. This spirit is said to be able to "...instruct you in the amazing practice of controlling the weather, particularly rain and fog." Allowing you to 'summon' fog, hence your adequate ammount of needed moisture.
After you gain access and control over your much needed water, you will then need to be able to reduce the temperature of it. Seeing as how hot and cold are both considered heat energy, I am going to go out on a limb and say that "Aral" (of the element fire) would be responsible for this. Aral is said to be able to "...teach you how to actually manipulate heat..." thus allowing you to assumdly remove heat energy from an item (i.e. water)
Next, you need to be able to project your newly formed frozen droplets of ice, and invariably be able to compress them on whatever target you aim to freeze. There are two routes for this: Either you can use "Chassan" who can "...teach you how to control the physical manifestations of Elemental Air particularly wind ... to amazing degrees." (to 'blow' your ice in the desired direction) OR
"Mepsitahl" who "...can teach you how to master several occult faculties such as telekinesis..." (to mentally propel your ice in the desired direction).
Now that we have our sources of knowledge presented and the formalities of being learned out of the way, we can get down to application of our new found skills. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume our person has become very adept at these skills, and if you can swim in 7ft. of water, you can swim in 1,000ft. of water (i.e. if you can lower the degree of temperature 1 degree, you can lower it hundreds...) And seeing as how we're making the Sub-Zero reference, our target will be a person.
So, you (our new magickally adept graduate of the aformentioned skills) come across an assailant. Faced with an ensuing fight for you life, you decide to take heed of your amasing skills. Quickly you pull forth a great amount of moisture whilst simultaneously drastically lowering it's temperature to freeze it and, useing a concentration of gale force winds, accelerate it towards your enemy. Disoriented and alarmed, your enemy is quickly over come by the barrage of freezing ice particles and quickly succumbs to fatal hypothermia. As you continue your subzero (no pun intended) assault, whipping the ice laden wind around him, he literally becomes frozen in his tracks. With him immobilized, and in a final fit of rage, you quickly bring in a large ammount of moisture, at the same time freezing it and using your telekentic powers to hold it in mid air while steadily adding thicker layers of ice to it. At last, you propel your eventually large ball of solid ice into your brittle enemy... shattering him.
Certainly an impressive concept.[:)]
Sorry for the HUGE post, but I hope you had as much fun reading it as I have had writing it.
(All quotes in refference to higher beings were gotten from "Summoning Spirits: The Art of Magical Evocation" by Konstantinos... and I know this is a far fetched idea based on a few grains of truth, so please take it for the amusement it is intended as [;)] )
-NG
Yes, it is possible to impressively freeze water and project it at will.
The long answer:
It is highly improbable that anyone will achieve the ammount of focus and infliction of will necessary to do it in this life. Further more, if somone were that advanced, they would probably have long outgrown the need for physical existance anyway. [:)]
For amusement's sake:
I'm going to take a few liberties with what is known to be true, so far as metaphysics, magick and higher beings are concerned. (I figure we all in some respect must believe in these things if we're reading this).
For my refference on the higher beings I'm reffering to, I'm going to use "Summoning Spirits: The Art of Magical Evocation" by Konstantinos.
First, whoever wants to control these forces will have to become very proficient in manupilation of a few key things. To do this, said person will obviously need to incorporate some heavy aid from some much more viable source to this information. Hence the higher beings.
Initially you will need to learn to control moisture, the 'fuel' for your icey experiment. For this the spirit known as "Nichsa" can be used. This spirit is said to be able to "...instruct you in the amazing practice of controlling the weather, particularly rain and fog." Allowing you to 'summon' fog, hence your adequate ammount of needed moisture.
After you gain access and control over your much needed water, you will then need to be able to reduce the temperature of it. Seeing as how hot and cold are both considered heat energy, I am going to go out on a limb and say that "Aral" (of the element fire) would be responsible for this. Aral is said to be able to "...teach you how to actually manipulate heat..." thus allowing you to assumdly remove heat energy from an item (i.e. water)
Next, you need to be able to project your newly formed frozen droplets of ice, and invariably be able to compress them on whatever target you aim to freeze. There are two routes for this: Either you can use "Chassan" who can "...teach you how to control the physical manifestations of Elemental Air particularly wind ... to amazing degrees." (to 'blow' your ice in the desired direction) OR
"Mepsitahl" who "...can teach you how to master several occult faculties such as telekinesis..." (to mentally propel your ice in the desired direction).
Now that we have our sources of knowledge presented and the formalities of being learned out of the way, we can get down to application of our new found skills. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume our person has become very adept at these skills, and if you can swim in 7ft. of water, you can swim in 1,000ft. of water (i.e. if you can lower the degree of temperature 1 degree, you can lower it hundreds...) And seeing as how we're making the Sub-Zero reference, our target will be a person.
So, you (our new magickally adept graduate of the aformentioned skills) come across an assailant. Faced with an ensuing fight for you life, you decide to take heed of your amasing skills. Quickly you pull forth a great amount of moisture whilst simultaneously drastically lowering it's temperature to freeze it and, useing a concentration of gale force winds, accelerate it towards your enemy. Disoriented and alarmed, your enemy is quickly over come by the barrage of freezing ice particles and quickly succumbs to fatal hypothermia. As you continue your subzero (no pun intended) assault, whipping the ice laden wind around him, he literally becomes frozen in his tracks. With him immobilized, and in a final fit of rage, you quickly bring in a large ammount of moisture, at the same time freezing it and using your telekentic powers to hold it in mid air while steadily adding thicker layers of ice to it. At last, you propel your eventually large ball of solid ice into your brittle enemy... shattering him.
Certainly an impressive concept.[:)]
Sorry for the HUGE post, but I hope you had as much fun reading it as I have had writing it.
(All quotes in refference to higher beings were gotten from "Summoning Spirits: The Art of Magical Evocation" by Konstantinos... and I know this is a far fetched idea based on a few grains of truth, so please take it for the amusement it is intended as [;)] )
-NG
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: PyroPsion69 on December 04, 2003, 19:24:22
Post by: PyroPsion69 on December 04, 2003, 19:24:22
Interesting argument, but the one flaw in it I have to say is energy.
Umm no.... Sorry it doesn't work like that (at least in my perception of life, the universe, and everything) More temperature change = more energy movement = more concentration on your part. Ok Ill take this example. 5 gallons of water = about 19 litres. One kilocalorie can heat 1 litre of water 1 degree celcius. So thats 19 kCal for every degree C. Room temp @ 20 deg C, to 0, thats a change of 20. 19x20 = 380 kCal. That is a lot of heat to move around. Then to psychically suspend almost 40 pounds of ice in the air, while in the heat of battle? If you think this is doable by someone who isn't superhuman or close enough, then I dunno. Doable yes, close to impossible, definitely.
Another thing, you can speculate until the cows come home, but to actually go out and do it is a lot harder.
quote:
(i.e. if you can lower the degree of temperature 1 degree, you can lower it hundreds...)
Umm no.... Sorry it doesn't work like that (at least in my perception of life, the universe, and everything) More temperature change = more energy movement = more concentration on your part. Ok Ill take this example. 5 gallons of water = about 19 litres. One kilocalorie can heat 1 litre of water 1 degree celcius. So thats 19 kCal for every degree C. Room temp @ 20 deg C, to 0, thats a change of 20. 19x20 = 380 kCal. That is a lot of heat to move around. Then to psychically suspend almost 40 pounds of ice in the air, while in the heat of battle? If you think this is doable by someone who isn't superhuman or close enough, then I dunno. Doable yes, close to impossible, definitely.
Another thing, you can speculate until the cows come home, but to actually go out and do it is a lot harder.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: NecroGod on December 05, 2003, 06:33:45
Post by: NecroGod on December 05, 2003, 06:33:45
quote:
PyroPsion69
Umm no.... Sorry it doesn't work like that...
quote:
PyroPsion69
That is a lot of heat to move around. Then to psychically suspend almost 40 pounds of ice in the air, while in the heat of battle? If you think this is doable by someone who isn't superhuman or close enough, then I dunno. Doable yes, close to impossible, definitely.
Another thing, you can speculate until the cows come home, but to actually go out and do it is a lot harder.
quote:
NecroGod
It is highly improbable that anyone will achieve the ammount of focus and infliction of will necessary to do it in this life. Further more, if somone were that advanced, they would probably have long outgrown the need for physical existance anyway.
For amusement's sake:
I'm going to take a few liberties with what is known to be true, so far as metaphysics, magick and higher beings are concerned...
quote:
NecroGod
and I know this is a far fetched idea based on a few grains of truth, so please take it for the amusement it is intended as...
Odd. I thought I was quite vocal on the idea that it was very unlikely these skills would ever be observed by anyone.
Sorry if I offended you in some unspoken way.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: PyroPsion69 on December 05, 2003, 18:25:49
Post by: PyroPsion69 on December 05, 2003, 18:25:49
[B)]
Heh I was in a bit of a debating mood that day. No hard feelings man.
Heh I was in a bit of a debating mood that day. No hard feelings man.
Title: can we freaze like sub zero can?
Post by: kutabare on December 01, 2003, 09:31:56
Post by: kutabare on December 01, 2003, 09:31:56
Water can be one of three things.
1) A liquid
2) A solid (Due to the fact that it can be frozen)
3) And a Vapor
Water continuously travels in circles as far as from solid to vapor to
liquid. Regardless of what form water takes, it is still water.
(Same as human spirit, no matter what form your
spirit takes, you are still you.) To understand how
water gets in the current form that it is in, there are always certain
scientifical facts
(The natural way) of getting water into the form that
it is in. For water to become a solid, the temperatures
surrounding it needs to be at least 32 degrees fahrenheit. Being that
water is a conductor, the water will become the same temperature as the
air. In order for water to become a vapor, the temperature
surrounding the water needs to be at least 220 degrees fahrenheit. Water
becomes one with the environment that surrounds it. So with all these
facts in mind, it seems complicated to comprehend the idea of someone
like Sub-Zero who can pull water out of the air, freeze it, and then
blast away. That would be against the laws of nature. However, even
nature itself can pull water out of the air, freeze it, and throw it
down to the ground in the form of hail. So don't say it is impossible to
create ice in the air from water. =A0 =A0 Certain thunderstorms can
produce ice out of water. When the water falls from the clouds to the
ground, the cold strong winds blow the water back up into the clouds.
The process continues until the water freezes. Even after being frozen,
the water can still be blown back into the clouds until it finally
becomes heavy enough to pierce through the winds, and come crashing down
to the ground full force. Years ago, I was watching a weather man on T.V. giving
a weather report in a place where the temperatures where at least 60 to
70 below zero. He had a glass of water that he through up in the air on
live television, and the water was froze before it hit the ground. It
was amazing.... (One more example of how water can become
one with its' environment.) So how can a human create ice from the
water in the air? =A0 =A0 =A0 How can a human pull water out of the air,
and freeze it?
Well you have a understanding of the natural
way, but what about the unnatural way? A freak of nature is created by a force that
can break the laws of nature itself, and what better power than that of
the human spirit?
The human spirit has the power to adjust to the
environment that it surrounds...Much like water. If you had a mustard
seed, and you plant it, and it grows into a mustard tree, that would be
a freak of nature because there is no such thing as a mustard tree
anymore than there is a tomato tree. There is no laws of nature that can
stop the human spirit. You are a triunity. You have a body, soul, and
spirit. Water is a triunity of liquid, solid, and vapor. Even time is a
triunity composed of the past, the present, and the future. The sun,
moon, and stars in a triunity.
My point is that one can not be without the other.
Without a soul, it would be useless to have a body. Without the past,
you could have the present and future. Without the light of the sun, the
moon could not shine on its' on.
In order for your spirit to be like water, you have to
become one with your surroundings, insomuch that your surroundings could
not be without you. =A0 Be part of the triunity of your surroundings to
create a freak of nature that can break the laws of nature itself. Never
under estimate the power of the human spirit. Don't think, feel. It is
like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger
or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
(Know your surroundings.)
Force is not the answer, it will break you down. Spirit is on the
inside, it will never break.
{sorry but I need to post this in 3 forums :energy:metaphysics:astral experiences}
1) A liquid
2) A solid (Due to the fact that it can be frozen)
3) And a Vapor
Water continuously travels in circles as far as from solid to vapor to
liquid. Regardless of what form water takes, it is still water.
(Same as human spirit, no matter what form your
spirit takes, you are still you.) To understand how
water gets in the current form that it is in, there are always certain
scientifical facts
(The natural way) of getting water into the form that
it is in. For water to become a solid, the temperatures
surrounding it needs to be at least 32 degrees fahrenheit. Being that
water is a conductor, the water will become the same temperature as the
air. In order for water to become a vapor, the temperature
surrounding the water needs to be at least 220 degrees fahrenheit. Water
becomes one with the environment that surrounds it. So with all these
facts in mind, it seems complicated to comprehend the idea of someone
like Sub-Zero who can pull water out of the air, freeze it, and then
blast away. That would be against the laws of nature. However, even
nature itself can pull water out of the air, freeze it, and throw it
down to the ground in the form of hail. So don't say it is impossible to
create ice in the air from water. =A0 =A0 Certain thunderstorms can
produce ice out of water. When the water falls from the clouds to the
ground, the cold strong winds blow the water back up into the clouds.
The process continues until the water freezes. Even after being frozen,
the water can still be blown back into the clouds until it finally
becomes heavy enough to pierce through the winds, and come crashing down
to the ground full force. Years ago, I was watching a weather man on T.V. giving
a weather report in a place where the temperatures where at least 60 to
70 below zero. He had a glass of water that he through up in the air on
live television, and the water was froze before it hit the ground. It
was amazing.... (One more example of how water can become
one with its' environment.) So how can a human create ice from the
water in the air? =A0 =A0 =A0 How can a human pull water out of the air,
and freeze it?
Well you have a understanding of the natural
way, but what about the unnatural way? A freak of nature is created by a force that
can break the laws of nature itself, and what better power than that of
the human spirit?
The human spirit has the power to adjust to the
environment that it surrounds...Much like water. If you had a mustard
seed, and you plant it, and it grows into a mustard tree, that would be
a freak of nature because there is no such thing as a mustard tree
anymore than there is a tomato tree. There is no laws of nature that can
stop the human spirit. You are a triunity. You have a body, soul, and
spirit. Water is a triunity of liquid, solid, and vapor. Even time is a
triunity composed of the past, the present, and the future. The sun,
moon, and stars in a triunity.
My point is that one can not be without the other.
Without a soul, it would be useless to have a body. Without the past,
you could have the present and future. Without the light of the sun, the
moon could not shine on its' on.
In order for your spirit to be like water, you have to
become one with your surroundings, insomuch that your surroundings could
not be without you. =A0 Be part of the triunity of your surroundings to
create a freak of nature that can break the laws of nature itself. Never
under estimate the power of the human spirit. Don't think, feel. It is
like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger
or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
(Know your surroundings.)
Force is not the answer, it will break you down. Spirit is on the
inside, it will never break.
{sorry but I need to post this in 3 forums :energy:metaphysics:astral experiences}