The Astral Pulse

My thoughts are on the 19th page of the mediation with Michael thread.

I have nothing else to say except:

It's my strong belief that with continual interactions between SD and whatever he is mediating, SD will whither away slowly but surely.

It's a form of distraction, which in our society, is the main tool for control. SD could very well die one day to realize he was duped!

Of course, I could be wrong but I strongly doubt it. My intentions are sincere and rooted from my experience in reading heavy amounts of this type of material. I strongly caution all who read his answers to be vigilant.

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SD: 2) Do you know of the existance of an empire called Mu on earth Between 250,000 and 15.000 years ago? Or aren't you allowed to answer such a questions directly either?
M: China, that's the Mu Dynasty. Has a different name in some texts now. In general this mediation, I remind, is for spiritual matters.


I'm sorry but that's not the correct answer to my question. But never mind, I dont need the answer from you, I'il learn how to find it out myself in the astral!

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Reality, I'm curious, what is the correct answer to that question?

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Reality, I'm curious, what is the correct answer to that question?

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Mu = Lemuria.

All asian/oriental cultures root from the Lemurian race. Easter Island's stone sculptures were created by Lemurians.

There are theories that the Lemurians went 'underground' and the rest can be spotted from all those who carry the genetic strands. The eye-slid structure of asians/orientals is a clear indication of Lemurian descendance.

Lemuria existed thousands of years before Atlantis and ended after Atlantis formed (thousands of years after). I believe Qigong and all branches of it (Taoism) like Yoga, Tai-Chi, etc, are all forms of energy-development techniques which survived the last cataclysm (approximately 13,000 years ago).

You can get some really good stuff from the Cassiopaean website's search engine: http://www.cassiopaea.org/search.htm

Namaste.

Hmm, if asian characteristics and practices like Yoga and Chi kung originated in Lemuria, then it wouldn't surprise me if part of Lemuria was a dynasty in China, like Michael mentioned.  After all, there are many Chinese legends about their history that seems to go much farther back than anything we currently known.

Either way though, we know little to nothing about Lemuria, or even Atlantis for that matter, other than information gleaned from the Theosphical society and New Age channeling sources, both of which I consider highly questionable.  Therefore, I wouldn't call the things mentioned so far proven fact.  It seems to me as if much of your suspicion of Michael is largely due to the fact that the things he says go against other channeling sources like the Cassiopeans (aren't those the future human race that's supposedly contacting us through time? [B)])

Lordofthebunnies, I don't have a lot of energy today,(sore from the gym) but I'll humour you.

Firstly, your knowledge in regards to C-transcripts is lacking.

Second, when I say something like this:

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All asian/oriental cultures root from the Lemurian race

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When I say this, why would you respond with this:

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Hmm, if asian characteristics and practices like Yoga and Chi kung originated in Lemuria, then it wouldn't surprise me if part of Lemuria was a dynasty in China, like Michael mentioned. After all, there are many Chinese legends about their history that seems to go much farther back than anything we currently known.

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???

Wouldn't my original comment make you think that by "All asian/oriental" I really mean ALL? I think China is a pretty good example of an asian/oriental culture...(s-a-r-c-a-s-m)

Sorry for my rudeness, but your response really makes me wonder what goes through your head when I say something that indicates 'hands-down' that China would be included.

I say that because I'm not entirely certain as to whether there was a Lemuria from which asian cultures originated or not, and was noting that Michael said Mu/Lemuria was a dynasty in China, which would therefore not make his answer invalid. [;)]

So are you SD's agent now, Lordbunny? [:P]

Blackbox, I agree with your concern that this could be something other than a Arch Angel..I've felt this from the beginning, not only from a feeling but from some things that "Micheal" has stated.

I hope it doesn't turn on him..yikes.[:O]

My opinion..of course..[^]

Nay

-- There will always be truths (or half-truths) within the schemes of manipulation --

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I hope it doesn't turn on him..yikes.

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If SD realizes that everything that he experiences, even if it is manipulation, adds to his experience and ultimately makes him stronger, then he'll know that no one here is witch-hunting against him. [^]

My concerns are for his wellfare.

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So are you SD's agent now, Lordbunny?

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No, I'd have to charge him 60% of all the money he makes for me to be his official agent, I run a hard bargain.  Anyway, if your refering to me posting this new thread, I did it because the original one was getting to long and no one else had done it yet. [xx(]

Blackstream, I plan to read through the Cassiopae and Ra material, that way we can discuss this more in depth.

I would like to add that I honestally believe that he is in contact with Michael and not a demon. Ive been around alot of demons before, his anwsers do not seem to suggest that it is one. Strangly they are alot like my own guide's responses.

The guide I have now is most certianly *not* a demon. Seeding such ideas in his head is bad. If you *convince* him that Michael is a demon, then you will begin to see outsiders get their words in edgewise.

Michael's anwsers have helped me personally in a great time of need. And for that I am ever greatful. As skeptical as SD is, I feel that Michael is infact his guide.

The angelic refrain from revealing too much too quickly. It is dangerous to have too much information when you are not ready for it. Micheal is slowly revealing more, as my guide has. If he told him first hand that SD is important enough to recieve an archangle as a guide, his Ego would have destroyed him.

Until I see otherwise, I would believe what he says. Those words come from the heart and are open to intrepretation. You must all remember, even the divine is flawed. You must understand how lonely it is for the archangles. Such intimate contact with a human is probably more exciting to Micheal than it ever will be to SD.

I meant it seems you are speaking for him alot..that's all.[^]

Sentential, noone said anything about a demon, you got demons on the brain..[:P]

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The angelic refrain from revealing too much too quickly

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This is not true, infact just the opposite...true guides will not lead you along, ask you to hang in there for the next installment, nor be vague.

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You must understand how lonely it is for the archangles. Such intimate contact with a human is probably more exciting to Micheal than it ever will be to SD.

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 If I was in the presence of God all the time, I'm thinking I wouldn't be bored one bit.[:D]  In my opinion, Arch Angels are just to ummmmmm..large for us to take in, so contact with a person in the physical seems unlikely. Of course I could be sooo wrong, but not according to my guide. [;)]

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If he told him first hand that SD is important enough to recieve an archangle as a guide, his Ego would have destroyed him.

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 Someone's ego is definately being destroyed..

Nay

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You must all remember, even the divine is flawed.

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I am not going to respond to rubbish.

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You must all remember, even the divine is flawed.
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I am not going to respond to rubbish.

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How is it rubbish?  Do you have conclusive proof that the divine is indeed perfect?  How, ultimately, would you define perfect?  The makeup of universe is formed by beings that are more evolved than us, but none of them have absolute power or perfect knowledge, thus still have room to grow, and thus are still flawed in certain ways.  Then, as you go up even higher, you get to a point where things like existance and God become so far beyond our comprehension that terms like perfect and flawed don't really describe it very well, in other words chaos.  Personaly I agree with what Michael said, if the 'divine', or rather, the finite defintions that form our existance were absolutely perfect, free will would be impossible, and there would be no true growth.

There is structure. There is chaos.

Everything is quite simple if you do not overcomplicate the issue.

What you consider 'imperfection' or 'flaws' is due to your SUBJECTIVE bias, point-of-view, perspective. Take - Your - Pick.

Do cells of a body question the objective of the man or woman? That is how silly it is to assume such things from your shoes.

Perfection involves a preference. Perfection for a whale may be imperfection to a bear.

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I am not asking you to believe in what I believe. I AM saying that if you take the time to study the C-transcripts or the Ra-material, or perhaps both, you will realize that when someone claims that the Universe has "flaws" or that it is "imperfect" or whatever, it is due to their subjective interpretation. Cellular insanity, if I would be so bold to call it that.

Birth in the realm of 3D brings a lot of confusion when a foundation of objective knowledge is not presented to a child. Time is misunderstood. Amnesia from 'before' is in deep-lingo.

Do you know what your brain does? It converts THOUGHT into MATTER.

All you can see is MATTER and so you do not understand that all there REALLY is, is THOUGHT.

The way you think BunnyMan, is through using your limited perspective to set YOUR 'expectations' upon the UNIVERSE. You are playing the role of a CELL questioning the BODY, except not through knowledge but ignorance.

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I apologize for being bold and I think even particularly rude, but I am putting effort into my words and trying to spark the scholar in you to perhaps consider stepping back, or flying up a few miles up in to the air so to observe EVERYTHING from the eyes of a bird. The virtue of objectivity.

This is the path of practical enlightenment.

Before I make my long winded reply I would like to ask you blackbox: why do you feel the need to make a personal attack? is your beliefs that much on the line here?

Please people, no rude attacks, we are only human but because we are human we have control to a certain degree. I would not want to see this degrade to a simple bashing thread.

I'm really low on energy today and I apologize for the term "BunnyMan", but that is where the 'rudeness' ends, SD.

Considering the big topics we are covering, I don't think it is a big deal.

Stick to the topic.

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EDIT: In hind-sight, I agree that from looking at my post(s), I've brought a bit of emotion into my thoughts and that allowed some 'abusive ad hominem' that shouldn't have been placed.

I apologize again. Today has been a rough day, and I will remain civil. [:D]

Here's a question I'm going to ask Micheal about this, maybe thinking about the question will make things less complicated:


On the topic of the divine, is it accurate to interpret the word 'perfect' to mean 'in complete balance' as opposed to 'cannot be improved upon'? It seems to me that if the Creator desired to experience everything, then that is a desired improvement. I would also think that the Creator would not desire to not be able to improve because that would result in eternal boredom.

Hi, just going to pop in for a sec.

If you are not so into the Casseopians or Ra, then you could check out the ideas of Jyana-Yoga which claim very similiar things.  Except, they would not say ultimate reality is thought, but rather it is objectless conciousness.  I think that this is a rather important distinction to make.

Anywho, to talk about perfection or imperfection or whatever thing that you take up as an object of conciousness is to talk about something that is only relatively true.  We are unable to talk about perfection without also admitting to imperfection.  The very notion of perfection implies the concept of imperfection.  We wouldn't have any need to talk about perfection if there was no imperfection.   Further, the only reason why we come up with ideas like 'perfect' and 'imperfect' is through our senses and thought processes and these things will never allow us to see things as they really are.  They take reality and tint it a certain way.  It is only when we stop modifying and naming and conceptionalizing reality that we can directly experience reality and at that point it makes no sense to describe what reality is for it simply is that which there is none other.  To talk about it being perfect or imperfect is to give it a form and that would make it one among many when it is neither one nor many it just is.

hehe, I'm sure in time I will perfect [:D] my ability to explain things.

If you are speaking of terms of perfection being relative and subject to interpretation, then I would agree with you.  Whenever I meditate, the awareness of the moment brings a peace with it where chaos, perfection and flaws no longer apply.  However, what I am speaking of is this new age belief that everything is controlled and structured exactly as God intended it to be, and that it is therefore perfect.  Because everything that has form, from humans to karma to God, is finite and striving to become more, it is thus not perfect in the sense of being complete and having no more need of growth.  In other words, sometimes even God can make mistakes.

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Do you know what your brain does? It converts THOUGHT into MATTER.

All you can see is MATTER and so you do not understand that all there REALLY is, is THOUGHT.

The way you think BunnyMan, is through using your limited perspective to set YOUR 'expectations' upon the UNIVERSE. You are playing the role of a CELL questioning the BODY, except not through knowledge but ignorance.

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I think you misunderstood my post. I don't expect the universe to act in any specific manner, other than in developing love.  The universe, us, grows because it has the will and desire too.  Still, that does not mean that everything always happens as is intended, and thus flaw in that sense does exist.  

However, it seems to me that you are projecting your own views, views heavily influenced by your preference for the C and Ra channelings.  Although I will read them, you talk about it as if I need to read them to gain true knowledge.

And, as I'm sure you may think this, I must state that I do not totally agree with everything Michael said either.  I may be a cell questioning the body, but, well sometimes us ignorant cells don't get as much oxygen and glucuse as we might like, and wonder why the immune systems don't keep away all the bacteria like they're supposed too.  Nevertheless, so far most of what Michael has said makes more sense to me than the generic New Age goobledegook that gets put up on the internet.

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Originally posted by BlackBox

I'm really low on energy today and I apologize for the term "BunnyMan", but that is where the 'rudeness' ends, SD.

Considering the big topics we are covering, I don't think it is a big deal.

Stick to the topic.

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EDIT: In hind-sight, I agree that from looking at my post(s), I've brought a bit of emotion into my thoughts and that allowed some 'abusive ad hominem' that shouldn't have been placed.

I apologize again. Today has been a rough day, and I will remain civil. [:D]

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That was not what I was talking about THIS is what I was talking about:

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is through using your limited perspective to set YOUR 'expectations' upon the UNIVERSE

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Again I ask you, why the personal attack? Low on energy just...seems like an excuse. I am not asking you to reply to me, but ask the question of yourself.

Now I will start on my long winded reply.

True enough LOTB.

I think I have said my peace. We all have our own realities and perhaps I'm consuming myself with trying to get others to see mine.

Foolish indeed.
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Anyways, back to creative-writing of fictional worlds.

My final note: The draining effect that SD experiences was my initial point before I went 'postal'. That is my concern and also my thought on perhaps NOT asking SD to further summon Michael's energies.

I have a gut feeling that he is being distracted and diverted. He obviously creates a lot of energy. For that reason alone, manipulation to suck it out of him on a regular basis is a particular agenda.

Namaste.

But the striving is just an illusion.  You are that which you are striving for.  Errr, well maybe that isn't exactly correct, because what you think you are striving for may not be THAT but rather an concept of what you think THAT is.

No matter what anyone claims God is trying to do or is doing etc. it will only be correct up to a certain point, for all knowledge claims rely upon our sense and thoughts to derive their meaning and those things are only able to give us a view of reality which is tinted by lense that it looks through.

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is through using your limited perspective to set YOUR 'expectations' upon the UNIVERSE
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Whether or not it was intended as a personal attack, it simply is how it is.  We all suffer from our 'limited perspectives' placing 'expectations upon the UNIVERSE'

We can only describe the universe through our perceptions, which are naturally limiting.

Just trying to shine some light via a disco ball spinning in the center of the room.  If it is not appreciated, I understand.  Have a great day.

Let us start with a fresh new page. Put on the title: "Channeling/ Mediations"
list of mediations:
-Michael (my case)
List of Channelings:
-Michael
-Ra
-Lizard-Man(sorry forgot the name of them)
-Zeta's
-Cassiopeans

WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT CHANNELINGS:
-The Entity takes control of the physical body for a time, pushing aside the consciousness but not altogether pushing it out of the body.
-In cases on the internet, automatic writing occurs (Euphoric Sunrise I hope you are reading this)
-When the body is left in the "I am free to be taken over state"  any other spirits who look to take control will jump in. During this state the mind of the channeler goes into a very temporary state of "deadness." This state is so brief that another human will not notice it happening.
-The two consciousness's are in the same body, but the original consciousness is "buried"

WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT MEDIATIONS
-Not a channeling
-Is the same as if talking to a spirit, as that is what is going on. The Mediator later relates what was said OR relates as is being said.
-If neg is to try to take advantage then they will have to copy the atmosphere and essence of the being. Or take advantage of first time contact and unept knowledge and understanding of what essence and atmosphere of being are like.


WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT NEGS
-Like to find ways of making reality apparent so they can twist perception to a form that suits them.
-Steal energy
-like to do things in ways that will leave them with maximum benifit and little loss if something goes wrong.

From here I am going to read the Ra and other channelings.

Negative's of all:
-Highly Questionable and highly unverifiably source from all sides
-All sides have made some people very upset, going against the "god and higher beings are perfect" assumption.
-Individual negatives:
RA

Ra apparently is an alien race of beings. If the relationship between god and these beings is true the egyptians were...fooled. However the statement: we will be seen more and more.... can be related to the multiple reports of UFO's across, however the description of this ship and the description of those ships do not match. Furthermore, the dates are somewhat wrong for these occurences unless "soon" spans many, many years. (first UFO sightings recorded: early 1900's,)(The year of statement: 1974)(Year of bursts of UFO's: 1960's)(another burst: recently in mexico 2004)This of course could be "other spacefarer's"

APPARENT RA TACTICS NOTE: If you have studied war tactics and some small psychology you would not that there are some major tactics using apparent "You are the bad guy we are the good guy" hints in the channelings. This is a common tactic used by military to ground the home people onto thier side. In this case it is used to suggest the wanted feelings subtely and without the awareness of the intent. This tactic is very old and used a lot. These Ra people are either doing it on purpose or perhaps it's part of thier naturality.
MORE, PLEASE WAIT

Cassiopean
Can't seem to find any actual channelings, a lot of articles about why thier channelings are accurate which would appear to hint that either they are not sure of themselves, or something else, but actual channelings seem hard to find, even with search engine.

Micheal Mediation (Spectral Dragon's)
The apparant hard to understand words of this mediation makes people wonder if the mediations are designed as "a glove that can fit most hands" because of the crypticy of the mediations. Also, most answers cannot possibly be verified. Some people, looking for answers, have been bluntly turned down. Some people have also found that the answers were most unsatisfactory.

Positives of each:
Ra:
Years and years of answering questions and still going is a huge plus for this. The fact that UFO's are sighted is also a huge plus. Some of the answers, while somewhat cryptic, can be used for self-enlightenment as told by many people going by the channelings here.

Cassiopean: while I myself could not find channelings from them on the particular site given to me I have spoken to a known good source that these channelings have been researched and verified in small ways. The fact that they present some proof for thier own channelings is a big plus as well.

Micheal: people have benifited from this mediation. (that's seriously all I could come up with at the moment)
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Now that I got the "official looking basics" down I would like to say that on the "official looking basics" My mediations seems small and mediocre compared to the other sources. However the points against Ra in particular lead me to believe something else going on behind the scenes is occuring. Go figure, someone said the same thing for mine. The best conclusion I can come up with is:

TAKE CHANNELINGS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

Further, I would like to add that Micheal does not speak to me with words. I have to translate the atmosphere/visions he is giving me, and as such a huge reason those answers are cryptic is my own fault, even if micheal doesn't want some answers to be plain as day.

From the manner I see you research, SD, I am done speaking in regards of this topic.

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(last BB post in regards to this thread and Michael)

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Originally posted by BlackBox

From the manner I see you research, SD, I am done speaking in regards of this topic.

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(last BB post in regards to this thread and Michael)

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Good, but remember your "ra" and your "cassiopeans" seem to do things in the same manner. Also note that you seem to have made your decision before I was finished. I am going super critical on my own Mediations as well you will soon see.

I would also have you note that you have followed the same pattern when trying to bash my mediations BlackBox. Are you saying it's ok for you do reason that way and not for me?

First time I saw this thread and read it's questions AND answers
I got a 'clicking' feelings that yes this is right.

I've also read other channelings and they do not seem that correct and accurate. But this one really astonished me because it was
pretty much down to Earth answers and no flying in meta-space.

Then I wanted to test this out and asked some questions firstly
about personal matters and then about some other matters, this
time I REALLY got surprised.

I had a hard time writing any questions because all the questions
I wrote I got an answer the second I thought about this. First I
thought the answer came from my subconsciousness, then I started
digging a bit into this and noticed that no they came from a part
of myself. (I've before also gotten answers like this but only from
an ancient friend that I've known for an eternity)

Also this had a specific feel to it. Then when I saw the answers
to the questions I got flooded with images and feelings regarding
the answer. These came also from the same source, which was a
part of myself.

To every personal question I got this but not to questions that
didn't directly have to do with myself.

The special thing about the answers were that they seemed to fit
very very accurately. Almost like they had been specifically tailored
for my own being.

But still every answer goes through SDs own filtering system so they
get a bit altered, but Michael can probably foresee very well the
'impact' of his answers on SD so that it comes out pretty accurately.

Please do also note that this is only a PART of Michael.
Probably a very small part.

I find it a bit funny to read the fears of other people in this thread, firstly you probably don't know a minor part of SDs own
experience in this. Secondly you only interpret the answers through
the internet and through text format so no all the subconscious impressions are gone from that too. A bit like saying that you
know someone from having chatted with him/her for a couple of years,
without seeing him/her in person [:D]

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Originally posted by SpectralDragon
TAKE CHANNELINGS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

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No, I think channeling should be taken as being something useful, but only if some element of trustworthyness is shown.

Learn to trust, but after you know who or what you're channeling is genuine. Otherwise all you will do is forever be caught up in arguments between believers and doubters

As an example given by an author on the subject - Ted Andrews:

"Many channelers incorrectly believe that they are in true contact with a particular being or master. For example, a person who channels Jesus may not truly be channeling Jesus. This may only be what he or she is capable of understanding that energy to be.
It is as close as he or she can get to defining it. This isn't wrong in and of itself, but it is misleading. It indicates the need for a great deal of spiritual knowledge and maturity before ever placing yourself in a position of channeling and counselling for others."

So, the thing here is to KNOW both who and what the being you are channeling is. You need to build up the skills of mediumship under the guidance of another experienced medium who can act as a teacher, and give you confirmation of what it is you are seeing and hearing.

Without "real world" confirmation of another with experience in such matters when you are learning, you are liable to fall foul of being distracted or misguided by either your own ego, or other beings who's intentions are to misguide. Such beings need not be out to drain you of your energy, they might just crave contact with the living, and employ subtle tricks to keep you hooked.

The latter has happened to me. Whether the being I was in contact with was such a being, or whether it was simply my own ego driven imagination I'll never know, but frankly, I don't care. The distraction was exposed for what it was and I am free of it. I now have been shown a true guide - a teacher, who I am not only familiar with from her words within my mind, and the visions she brings to me in meditations, she has been seen and/or has spoken with three other people I know with mediumistic talents, one of which has been a medium for many years and is highly proficient.

Because if this I KNOW and I TRUST my guide as being a genuine source of knowledge. If someone were to ask me questions of my guide, though I am still in the early stages of developing as a medium and would not willingly take on such a position, I would at least know my guide is real, and I would let that person know how and why I know this to be true - that others have witnessed my guide.

There will always be those who will be sceptical of such things, and many of them in their stubbornness will never be convinced. But for those that are inclined to believe, I feel a channeler has a duty to explain how they know the being they are in contact with is genuine.

Spectral Dragon,
With that in mind I would ask you  - how can you assure the people here that you are indeed speaking with the archangel Michael?
Have you had one or more experienced mediums who have witnessed that you are indeed in contact with him? Or can you show us that you have the training and proficiency as a medium that should be required of someone who wishes to publicly channel such a being?

These are genuine questions and a genuine answer would be much appreciated, as it would be refreshing and valuable to the AP site to have someone here who is indeed communicating with the real McCoy.

Unfortunately a lot of the channelings on this site so far have left much to be desired. After telling her about this site, A skilled, well trained and highly proficient medium that I am in regular contact with came on to this site out of curiosity, and she reviewed a lot of the channelings here, only to conclude that most was pure ego only, not even some kind of connection with lower astral beings.

The reason for most of this I feel is because after Mayatnik's great dissertation on the usage of a pendulum, many people were mistakenly lead to believe that after a few hours practice with the tool with absolutely no guidance, such as they might find in proper mediumship classes, they now qualify as channelers.

The same question I ask Spectral Dragon I would ask to anyone who believes they are channeling some being, or know someone who is - please show us what qualifies you or them to provide this level of channeling and has anyone else witnessed the beings you or they are in contact with.

For those that can honestly say yes to these questions, please carry on, your channelins are welcome, and don't let the critics cause you to lose confidence in yourself.

For those that can't honestly say yes, then please carry on learning, preferrably with the aid of someone to help confirm things for you, but don't give up because you may have found out you've been in contact with a fake. Any kind of communication is teaching you to build your psychic muscles, teaching you to become sensitive to the spirit world. Keep meditating, keep learning, keep experiencing and trust in yourself that you will reach the point where you can provide good and genuine channeling for the benefit of others.

Kind regards,
James.

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Originally posted by BlackBox

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You must all remember, even the divine is flawed.

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I am not going to respond to rubbish.

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If you can read between the LINES this statement means that:

Life is an evergoing process into perfection, which means that
it is _NEVER_ perfect but is always reaching for it.

Which in other words can be said that it is flawed [:D]

This is easy to grasp with a mathematical mind [|)]

I don't understand how people can take a channeling on the internet and use it to verify this channeling (mediating, I know ;) ).  I've read cassiopeans and I thought it was good at first but I started finding contradictions, holes and stuff (unfortunately I've forgotten the specifics now since it was a while ago).

There is a lot of saccharized channeling on the net which is very wordy and really at the end leaves you with not much to show for.

For instance, Bringers of the Dawn, Commander Ashtar and the High Command, the website says Croatia is the most spiritual country in the world and that the 3rd fatima prophecy is going to come true in 1999.  How can you talk about universal matters yet still focus on and make a specific country out to be special?  A lot of channelings only mention North America and how 9/11 had complications for the entire universe( this was at www.ronnastar.com).  If I were to believe them, Croatia and North America are the centres of the universe with all its galaxies and things going on.  Really the channelings are probably just an extension of the self with people trying to make it out to be a higher level being.

STS, STO, family of light, light bringers, etc are just ways of trying to make you feel good about what you are reading and giving you a reason to follow what it says.  I'm really probably just a holographic image of a 3rd dimensional person who didn't want to go with the pole shift that occured last year.  Maybe I will be ready enough in 2012?  What can I do to become an STO since I don't want to incarnate on an STS planet, I really want to be human and am afraid.

In the end, I don't think it is wise to compare SD's mediations against this benchmark since you don't really know if either is true.  Though it does make you wonder what reality really is.  "Fictional Worlds" anyone? [:)]

I don't really think SD would continue if he was really getting drained, I'm sure SD would know when to stop.  But this thread has given some really interesting answers that have surprised me (in a good way) as well.  This is the most interesting thread for me on the entire site, ever. [:)]

I have to agree that this thread is fascinating. There are more shadowed truths out there then bright, shining beacons of truth, and very few of us in this mortal shell really know what is true or not. So we depend on prayer and inner intuition and the guidance of the wise and more experienced. I feel some genuine *peace* with the answers given by SD and Michael, although i was very shocked by some of them.

"Is it good to summon demons" Michael: SOMETIMES? BUT RARELY? What???Well, that is not something i would expect an archangel to say, but then again, he doesn't go into specifics on hardly ANY subject. Still, actively drawing on a lying, deceptful negative entity, it just goes to show that anything can be twisted an interpreted in any way. I just wonder how many people out there will read that tidbit and think they have "what it takes" to channel a known demon.

I don't know diddly about these Ra and Cass thread you all are talking about. I'll take a look at them, but i'm sure they are just as convoluted and debatable as this thread. At least here i have developed a modicum of trust and respect for the posters. Many share very similar theological beliefs to my own, and that garners trust in and of itself. But in my experience it is difficult to trust anyone fully, either because they outright bend the truth or our own filters distort it naturally.

James you said what I've felt very elquently [:D]... I really need a miniature of you in my pocket, so I can use you when I can't find the words..[^]

quote:

---

Many share very similar theological beliefs to my own, and that garners trust in and of itself. But in my experience it is difficult to trust anyone fully, either because they outright bend the truth or our own filters distort it naturally.

---

Yes, that is a great point. This is how people get sucked into believing EVERYTHING a "channerler" says, because some of it rings true for them but it is nothing more than a person's own beliefs kicking in.  And it is nothing more than the channelers own ego and beliefs being stated.

I will say, I found it humorous that Spectral Dragon was asked if Mustarseed was truly channeling God, and a definite NO he is not, he is channeling something else.  Then if I remember correctly Mustardseed was asked the same question about Spectral Dragon and his answer was No, he is channeling something else..[:D]

I can honestly say.... I believe both of them on this one..[;)]

Nay  

It's the same with Neale Walsch: was it REALLY GOD he mediated all those years, or a Being so high up in the heirarchy it might as well be God? I think the latter. I believe that the highest highest levels of the divine are virtually Love in its purest form with possibly little to no knowledge of our everyday affairs, and nor does it care. But not caring in a GOOD way.


Did anyone think it odd what Michael said about the virtue of summoning a demon or not? I felt...uneasy on his answers. They clashed with some of my oldest reservations on mysticism...don't F with the Devil.

Looking at most other channelers out there, they have turned it into a kingpin business-making machine.  

I understand that doing this (no matter if the results are true or not) requires alot of personal effort, talent and TIME.  I am sure Spectral Dragon could be having alot more fun on a date at night than messing with this forum!

Some of Blackbox's thoughts are interesting.  Then again I also pay attention to Red Dragon, Cube and the rest.  Everyone has their viewpoint, their thoughts, their evaluation of the results.  Like someone said (somewhere!) that we all look thru our own filters.

Blackbox, I felt immediately that you are a "logic thinker", linear.  Lord of the Bunnies, I felt you think more "wholistically", as in the mind-mapping structure.  We are all different, and like fingers on a hand, we all have millions of opinions and viewpoints, each one valid in it's own way.  Ask a cop what accident witnesses say...everyone sees something different, and it is not unusual from some to be radically different from the other.  But there is always some reason found for that inside the person viewing it....

So, like me, no one likes to be told anything, because we ALL feel we are right for our own reasons.

Thanx for the links Blackbox.  Also, from my viewpoint, Steward Swerdlow has his benefits, but don't let what you learn from him limit you.  I admire what he has done to survive, but that is not the "whole path" either, no matter how much it has helped you.  

.....< getting off soapbox, dusting carefully, stowing it under bed..

just gotta stir it, just gotta stir it

the italic button is not working...

i think i mentioned something about personal filters. What's really trippy is to think that we're ALL correct in our beliefs/assumptions. If you consider for a moment that the astral is the source of thought and creation, then anything is possible. There could easily be different realities where various truths are expressed. For example, in one reality maybe Atlantis was built by prehistoric alien visitors, and another Atlantis by early Summerians. The hardline "reality" that we live in everyday is only a vibration of light at a low level. Who is Dreaming the Dreamer they say.

quote:

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I understand that doing this (no matter if the results are true or not) requires alot of personal effort, talent and TIME. I am sure Spectral Dragon could be having alot more fun on a date at night than messing with this forum!

---

*grabs puff's soapbox*

Noone has made Spectral Dragon to do what he is doing.  Statements like that, I feel are to enlist a sort of guilt.  After months of spending time with Maya, I began to see this was one of his many manipulation, so I guess now I'm leary of the whole channeling thing..[:(]

*cleans the soapbox off, and puts it back*  Thanks for letting me borrow that. [:D]

Nay

Like I said, no further comments from me on this, but I wanted to just post a reply from a friend of mine. He runs the montalk.net website:

quote:

---

The guy is channeling disinformation, IF he's even channeling. The tone of
what comes through is low frequency, something along the lines of a grumpy
discarnate entity, if not made up by SD himself. Even when something
speaks through another, the frequency and tone gets through, but not so
with this guy.

Also notice that "M" misunderstands questions - that can only be so if the
originator of the answers come through 3D thought process rather than
archangelic knowledge.

Next, notice that his stuff does NOT mesh with the C's/Ra material except
on the superficial things that don't affect our own spiritual progress,
our understanding of hyperdimensional reality, or our ability to transcend
the Matrix control system. M talks about multiple universes, but when it
comes to an actual topic like reptilians, organic portals, etc ... he
takes the "don't pay attention to that, it's not important" or "that's not
true" or "here's a smart-butt answer that sidesteps your question" approach
without EVER explaining why or giving more details.

Remember, STS forces tell the truth when convenient. Other times, they
suppress or divert it. M reminds me a lot of "The Author" of Matrix V. Not
saying they're the same person, but they do have the same tone and vibes.

Here's what he advocates:

- doing rituals to get in touch with "archangels" (michael, gabriel,
metatron, etc... are terms heavily promoted in the disinformative type of
channeling. Same goes for mother sekhmet, saint germain, sananda, etc...
These rituals uplink you directly to 4D STS, so of course something will
seem to "guide" you when you do them.)

- that reptilians are not real, and there are only some grays. (then who
made the grays? and why do abductees remember encounters with reptilians?
Why are some reported grays more reptilian in appearance - I've seen one
myself - suggesting they are hybrids but crossed with what? obviously a
reptilian. Why are there ancient accounts and depiction of reptilian
beings, such as the carvings at Mohenjo Daro, Mayan building statues,
ancient figurines, and elsewhere? Why do many world political leaders
obviously hosted by something evil have facial structures that look
reptilian, suggesting the reptilian energy functions as a template to
shape their physical growth over the years? Why are dragons so popular in
mythology from europe to asia?)

- that M occupies 27th density. Is that a joke? He has no understanding of
what a density is. Also funny that "The Author" of Matrix V claims to get
his knowledge from monroe's Focus Level 27. Why do disinformation sources
always use the same symbolism and terminology? Oh yeah, because it all
comes from the same originator.

My opinion is that SD is either making this up (lying, basically, and it's
more funny that later he said that the channeling sources you have
"verified" could be lying, something of a projection on his part) or else
he's tapping into the channeling disinformation pool that others connect
to, like these people: http://www.quatloos.com/NESARA.htm  (scroll down,
in the left column are some audio files called "message from Lord Sananda"
and "afternoon with Mother Sekhment" - listen to one, and you'll know what
I'm talking about).

Later SD says this:

"Let me tell you one thing. If anyone ever claims ANY CHANNELING IS
"VERIFIED" they are full of it. The only way to know for a fact is to be a
watcher of the channeling itself, and you can't really do that very well
over the internet. Even at that viewing is not always a good way to know
if something is genuine, because the guy could easily be lying. You can't
know for a fact that a channeling is true, unless you do the channeling
yourself, and even at that you have to be a "master" at it. These so
called "elders" don't know what they are talking about, sorry to say."

Obviously he doesn't know the meaning of the term "discernment" or
"research" or "intuition". You don't have to be at a channeling to know
that it's legit. I attended a cass session myself, and could see myself
that no one at the board was making it up because the letters came too
quickly and the answers were of things that the board operators themselves
couldn't know (like personal details, answering the question correctly
when even the board operators didn't understand the question themselves),
but in fact, how it's done is inconsequential since what matters is the
material that gets through, which anyone can discern for himself as to
whether it's worthy or not. As I pointed out above, M gives crappy
information that's often false or contradictory or avoids answering the
question or misunderstands it completely.  

What does it take to verify channeling? That it's self-consistent,
independent of the channeler's level of confusion or ignorance, that it
explains things better than any other theory out there, that no facts
disprove it's main premises, that it has a lucid and wise vibe and
demonstrates this through the conciseness and accuracy of answers given,
that it respects freewill but nevertheless intentionally guides one toward
the truth, and that it makes statements which later are verified through
independent research and experience.

Attending a channeling is one way for 4D STS to use their tricks to add a
"wow" factor to convince the gullible with levitations and balls of light,
things that have nothing to do with the material given by the channeing
itself.

Feel free to post this email to the board.

---

Hi Nay
Just a little itsi bitsy note....of self justification[:I]. Very early on I made it a specific point to explain that none of what I channeled should be taken as a way to get answers to questions folks should be answering themselves. I refrained from questions that had that feel to them as it was and is my belief that God was not happy about people using the "answer book" instead of taking the test! I also mentioned that I myself believed I was channeling God (and still do) but I strongly advised everyone to make up their own mind on this point. On a side point you could ofcourse say that We were both wrong in our channeling about each other ......or that one of us was right, him or I ie The Arc Angel or God. I would agree with you though for the most part in your statements. It seemed that Mayatnik had the Floor .....but has it no more. At least not alone.[;)]

Regards Mustardseed

Wow..that quatloos link creeped me out! [:O]

Mustardseed,  I know what cha are saying.[;)]  Interesting because after reading what Blackbox just posted..

quote:

---

The guy is channeling disinformation, IF he's even channeling. The tone of
what comes through is low frequency, something along the lines of a grumpy
discarnate entity, if not made up by SD himself. Even when something
speaks through another, the frequency and tone gets through, but not so
with this guy.

---

I think this is what I was feeling when I read Spectral Dragon's channeling.  Your channelings did have a different feel to them, a more calmness to them.  I still think it's your higherself..lol. but hey, that isn't so bad is it?  Since we are actually a part of God.  hmmm..then I guess you could say you were channeling part of God..[:P]

Nay

quatloos link confused me. Too many conspiracies to track. Unless you dig that sort of thing.

quote:

---

It's hard to remain calm when people are being such f****** idiots lol.

---

So can I be assured that I'm one of those idiots?  I saw nowhere in this thread where someone started calling names..well..except for your post.

It is one thing to say someone is not channeling what they think, another thing to call him a freakin idiot.  Lets try and not call people names.

quote:

---

A pity I'm not a God of Death hehe  Nah seriously in situations like this it would be nice to have a quantum teleporter and just teleport to the subject and stare deep into his eyes and see all his egos melt, stare at the soul of the being and even get the subject to sense his own egos. It would really help

---

Yeah, a pity you can't kill people for their own opinions.  As for the teleporter, I've heard Spectral Dragon say he can do this at will...so why not ask if he will do it for you. I'm sure my ego could use some melting..[^]

Nay

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nay

quote:

---

It's hard to remain calm when people are being such f****** idiots lol.

---

So can I be assured that I'm one of those idiots?  I saw nowhere in this thread where someone started calling names..well..except for your post.

It is one thing to say someone is not channeling what they think, another thing to call him a freakin idiot.  Lets try and not call people names.

quote:

---

A pity I'm not a God of Death hehe  Nah seriously in situations like this it would be nice to have a quantum teleporter and just teleport to the subject and stare deep into his eyes and see all his egos melt, stare at the soul of the being and even get the subject to sense his own egos. It would really help

---

Yeah, a pity you can't kill people for their own opinions.  As for the teleporter, I've heard Spectral Dragon say he can do this at will...so why not ask if he will do it for you. I'm sure my ego could use some melting..[^]

Nay

---

Your right, I acted like an idiot [:(]
Guess this was just the last drop in the cup that spilt it, answering
to narrow minded people all day long on various different forums about various things and now I just exploded.

So I'm sorry. [B)]

Quote[Did anyone think it odd what Michael said about the virtue of summoning a demon or not? I felt...uneasy on his answers. They clashed with some of my oldest reservations on mysticism...don't F with the Devil./quote]

I would have thought that as well, until I did some research on ceremonial magick.  You can learn more by going to www.occultforums.com.  Michael did say that it is a VERY rare occurence where one would need to summon a demon.  There are exceptions to every rule.

Also, I think some of you are forgetting that this is not a channeling.  SD is not invoking an ArchAngel into his body.  He is talking to him on the astral plane, so its more so an evokation.

Second, although I'm not a medium, I'll assure everyone once again that SD is not lying.  I have known him for several years, and I trust him more than I would my own parents.  I was actually at his house when he was doing many of these mediations, and he was quite surprised at some of the answers.  If you don't think its Michael, then thats fine, but I want to be make it clear that he is NOT lying.

quote:

---

Originally posted by James S

quote:

---

Originally posted by SpectralDragon
TAKE CHANNELINGS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

---

No, I think channeling should be taken as being something useful, but only if some element of trustworthyness is shown.

Spectral Dragon,
With that in mind I would ask you  - how can you assure the people here that you are indeed speaking with the archangel Michael?
Have you had one or more experienced mediums who have witnessed that you are indeed in contact with him? Or can you show us that you have the training and proficiency as a medium that should be required of someone who wishes to publicly channel such a being?

These are genuine questions and a genuine answer would be much appreciated, as it would be refreshing and valuable to the AP site to have someone here who is indeed communicating with the real McCoy.

---

I would like to remind you that this is not a channeling, but rather a mediation. Let me go into more detail of what a mediation is for those of you who do not wish to read through 20 something odd pages (although I explained it in the first post I made but that's besides the point)

In the mediation I am doing, I contact the spirit. In the first contact I had with micheal I had Kereen (My pheonix spirit guide) verify that it was Micheal, and before even that I tested micheal, who was very understanding of the tests. I confirmed also through Kereen that this was simply a fragment of micheal, not the whole shebang. Skipping ahead to the actuall mediations, I speak with micheal. I do not bring him in, as that is impossible for such a high level being (on par with trying to put the state of florida into an ant) I am consciously speaking to him on what most of you would know as fifth level awareness, right above the etheric plane. As I am speaking to him in this manner, I am reading to him and trying to impress upon him the questions given to me. He answers, and I translate the atmosphere and visions the best that I can.

Your question is only fair James, however I would ask that you note that right from the begginning I was telling people to test this source out. From my own experiences you simply can't trust a channeled source unless you are a watcher, who in technical terms is someone spiritually connected to the channeler, and is aware of the physical to mentalplane awareness, and mostly unnaffected by the channeling. I told people straight away "do not trust channelings, you can never be sure of thier source" and Micheal has said much the same thing over and over again.

I am currently trying to contact some of the sources you want me to mention. They are, and reasonably, leery of the archangel topic, but then again read the parts in the thread where i say all things of this nature need to be "taken with a grain of salt."

James I would like to hear a lot more on how you know for a fact that channeled sources can be "trusted" From my own experience you can't trust someone talking through another person, period. It's like someone trying to talk to you by getting another person to do it for them, questions come up when people do that.

Now on your friend being a good source of knowing about this stuff I have no comment. Never met her, don't know her.

I had a long story ready for you guys to read. I really don't want to post this part of my life on a forum, even though part of it is already up on this forum. So I cut it out and saved what I had to a text file. If enough people say they want to see how I can project and be aware the way that I can, then I will put it up.

So, going on again with the trust issue,

quote:

---

I understand that doing this (no matter if the results are true or not) requires alot of personal effort, talent and TIME. I am sure Spectral Dragon could be having alot more fun on a date at night than messing with this forum!

---

Yes and no. I will say that at first I really did not want to start this topic, but I was kinda pressured into it. I won't say how.

BlackBox, your not even trying to reach understanding. I have no more comment. With the way you are thinking you will never trust this, so my advice is don't even bother anymore.

Very well, now awaiting for my sources to come and hopefully this matter will settle and I can simply go back to the calm and steady of having micheal answer questions again.

I do not think it is for others to judge what another has experienced. SD has laid before us his perceptions of what he has experienced. To pick it apart and tell him what he "really" experienced makes absolutely no sense, because nobody here perceives things in exactly the same way.

The key thing to worry about here is, did it feel good or bad? Is it coming from the ego or is it of the spirit? All of us know how it is to have our ego stroked. It feels pretty damn good. However, in the long run it only weakens our spirits. So if the experience strokes your ego, change your point of view and look at it from a more spiritual standpoint. Has it helped you to feel more free, apart from the rules and boundaries your ego has set before you, or does it feel like it just proves your ego right? Move carefully along the path and watch your ego closely for its reactions. Also, watch your spirit for feedback. That is how you find out.

Pray for perception, not protection. No one can save you from yourself but yourself. Remember- The one drawing to you the reality you experience is yourself. ANYTHING is possible in this reality. Your perception is what will open your options.

With that said, I do not think what SD is doing has any harmful effects. Why are people offended?

I think I will soon be leaving the Post, as I feel it is not necessary for my spiritual development. I still plan on helping those under psychic attack, but more than anything I will simply help them help themselves, so that the next time it happens to them they will be prepared to deal with the situation more effectively.

Hi Spectral,

quote:

---

Originally posted by SpectralDragon
James I would like to hear a lot more on how you know for a fact that channeled sources can be "trusted" From my own experience you can't trust someone talking through another person, period. It's like someone trying to talk to you by getting another person to do it for them, questions come up when people do that.

Now on your friend being a good source of knowing about this stuff I have no comment. Never met her, don't know her.

---

I guess at this point it might be a good idea if I let you know what I consider the terms medium, channeling, mediating mean, so then at least we're not tlaking at cross purposes over possible percieved differences in terminology.

A medium - a person who is sensitive to the vibrations of the spirit world and who is able to convey messages or images from the spirit world by way of their own thought processes.

A channeler - basically another term for medium, yet the term channeling can include a great many different aspects - artists channeling a muse to produce an "inspired" painting. Intuition channeled from ones higher self to give insight into a situation. Channeling unfortunately has become a popular term for most forms of mediumship, be it recieving messages by way of tools like pendulums or tarot cards, going into a trance and allowing other beings to speak through you, or just interpreting what you see or hear from spirits around you.

a mediator - someone who has the ability to act consciously between a great source of light, love and power to those who need it. A mediator is able to know the exact source of all messages and is able to phrase those messages in a way that allows the individual to relate to the message. A mediator is able to test and verify messages because of a strong and deep education in the spiritual sciences, and because of good control over their energies. They should be able to turn their perceptiveness on or off at will. They are also aware of the great responsibilities and kharmic repercussions of their work.

"From my own experiences you simply can't trust a channeled source unless you are a watcher."

Spectral, I'm sorry but as far as mediators go, this is not correct.
If you are unable to tell people that the source can be trusted, and indeed unable to feel that trust yourself, Then stop what you are doing now and do not presume to tell people that you are mediating.
There should be no need for a "watcher" as you call it unless you are a student of mediumship and your watcher is a teacher that is confirming for you that what you are recieving from the spirit world is correct. I attend a meditation/psychic development circle like many that are around, and the lady who leads the circle is a spiritual/mediumship teacher who is capable of seeing all the spirits that the others in the group believe thay can see, and she is able to confirm or deny what they say they see or hear. This way we learn to TRUST for ourselves the messages we get because we are being guided in learning how to "feel" the spirits presence and interpret they're messages or visions correctly.

What you tell me of the process of how you are in communication with Michael though is correct. But the thing is, if you are truly a mediator, and not just a learning medium,  YOU should be fully aware of exactly who and what the being you call Michael is. You seem to be properly awre of this, yet you tell others not to trust. This seems to me to be a contradiction. Either that, Or I'm just not reading what you are saying correctly.


If you wish to present what you are doing as mediumship, or channeling, then please at least present us with someone who HAS the years of experience and education in this field that can confirm that the spirits you are in contact are real. This would be enough to satisfy me. You don't have to make out you're anything more than you are.  

I would much prefer to read the channelings of Jason, a person who is learning the skills of mediumship and who's communications have been confirmed by an experienced medium, than to read the mediatings of SpectralDragon who cannot confirm for us that he really is in touch with Michael, feels he cannot trust the words of a spirit spoken through another, and requires people to test his messages.

The former is someone I feel I could trust, as they are being  honest about what they are doing, and are in the process of learning to open up and trust themself and what they're doing. The latter, I feel is just another egotistical joyrider on the channeling bandwagon.

Regards,
James.

quote:

---

There should be no need for a "watcher" as you call it unless you are a student of mediumship and your watcher is a teacher that is confirming for you that what you are recieving from the spirit world is correct. I attend a meditation/psychic development circle like many that are around, and the lady who leads the circle is a spiritual/mediumship teacher who is capable of seeing all the spirits that the others in the group believe thay can see, and she is able to confirm or deny what they say they see or hear. This way we learn to TRUST for ourselves the messages we get because we are being guided in learning how to "feel" the spirits presence and interpret they're messages or visions correctly.

---

James, even in that case you still cannot put total trust in what you or another person is seeing or hearing.  You have to apply a heavy dose of skepticism. Me and Spectral have actually been doing something similar, I sense spirits and try to figure out what they are doing, while he helps evaluate my findings with his own skills.  For instance, once I was forming thought-forms with my mind, and Spectral was able to find out what I was doing.  At one point I closed my eyes, and envisioned a ball with spikes forming above a coffee table.  He described, in complete detail, exactly what I was doing, with no hints given.  Now, although this greatly increased my trust of him, I do not consider it absolute proof.  Even if Spectral was to offer up absolute proof (though such a thing does not exist) that he is talking to Michael, it would still be foolhardy to expect everyone to put full trust in what he's telling them.  The information should be taken, and then evaluated heavily through personal experience to see if it should be applied or not.

James,

Absolute trust of anyone is foolish, people rarely know the debts of their own self, yet you trust those persons as if you do know. And if you have to conclude you do not know a person (which you can never do for the most part, as you're not him) giving all your trust is foolish. You can give someone trust, but stay aware and know that your trust can be misplaced.

James and his friends could be all fooled by the same entity. James and his friends could be all looking in the wrong place. James and his friends could be misinterpreting things wrong. James and his friends could be all misleading you. Could, not necessarily is, but there is always a possibility, that why you can never trust someone completely, besides this is not necessary to have the benefits of your relationship.

Now Spectrals meditating could very well be wrong. Besides all there is are words from him, there is no way that you can know if it's truly from Michael, even if you could see him in person, he can be lying or deceived. Having more persons (whit experience) verify his meditating Michael makes it more probable that he is meditation Michael, but even then it's not a complete certainty.    

Taken everything in account words from other people channeled or not are at best tools for you to work whit, that's how I will use the meditated words of Michael, to see if they point to something useful.

And for trust, I believe you can only try to completely trust yourself. (not that you have to be distrustful of everyone and everything, just be aware where and how much trust you place in things/persons.)

quote:

---

Spectral, I'm sorry but as far as mediators go, this is not correct.
If you are unable to tell people that the source can be trusted, and indeed unable to feel that trust yourself, Then stop what you are doing now and do not presume to tell people that you are mediating.
There should be no need for a "watcher" as you call it unless you are a student of mediumship and your watcher is a teacher that is confirming for you that what you are recieving from the spirit world is correct. I attend a meditation/psychic development circle like many that are around, and the lady who leads the circle is a spiritual/mediumship teacher who is capable of seeing all the spirits that the others in the group believe thay can see, and she is able to confirm or deny what they say they see or hear. This way we learn to TRUST for ourselves the messages we get because we are being guided in learning how to "feel" the spirits presence and interpret they're messages or visions correctly.

---

Here you are saying you should do it my way or not at all. Everyone can and should decide this for themselves.

quote:

---

What you tell me of the process of how you are in communication with Michael though is correct. But the thing is, if you are truly a mediator, and not just a learning medium, YOU should be fully aware of exactly who and what the being you call Michael is. You seem to be properly awre of this, yet you tell others not to trust. This seems to me to be a contradiction. Either that, Or I'm just not reading what you are saying correctly.

---

The issue seems to be in the definition of mediator. You define a mediator as someone who (or claims at least) knows for certain the entity he is mediating is exactly who he says it is. I don't know if spectral ever agreed to your exact definition of mediator.

Besides trusting your own mediating is not the same as telling everyone to trust you. Spectral is wise to caution people to be careful as to who's words to trust. I'm sure you know even Buddha said this to his followers and he is a Buddha.  

quote:

---

If you wish to present what you are doing as mediumship, or channeling, then please at least present us with someone who HAS the years of experience and education in this field that can confirm that the spirits you are in contact are real. This would be enough to satisfy me. You don't have to make out you're anything more than you are.

---

Is your opinion that spectral is making out more than he is?

quote:

---

I would much prefer to read the channelings of Jason, a person who is learning the skills of mediumship and who's communications have been confirmed by an experienced medium, than to read the mediatings of SpectralDragon who cannot confirm for us that he really is in touch with Michael, feels he cannot trust the words of a spirit spoken through another, and requires people to test his messages.

---

Nothing more than a personal choice. Other do find it worth their time to read spectrals mediating of Micheal.

quote:

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The former is someone I feel I could trust, as they are being honest about what they are doing, and are in the process of learning to open up and trust themself and what they're doing. The latter, I feel is just another egotistical joyrider on the channeling bandwagon.

---

I believe this to be an unfair judgment.

Lord of the Bunnies,
What you and Spectral are doing together is excellent!!! Very good way to learn and develop. Keep an open mind towards the issue of trust though. The more experienced you get, the more you will learn that there are spirits who will come to you that you should indeed trust. Working on a basis of trust with the spirit world is a very important step. That is not to say that you should trust anything or everything. It is to say that as your skills grow, your intuition and your sensitivity to the spirit world will tell you more accurately just what you should and should not trust.

Keep up the good work! [:)]

Akensai,
Could I suggest please that you spend a little more time studying mediumship before making such comments. I mean REALLY studying it, from people in the business, and from books by people in the business. Your comments are way off!

My definition of a mediator is NOT MY definition! It is the definition of mediums and spiritual teachers who have written books on the subject, and the definition used by those who study the practice.

You seem to be treating what I say as a personal attack against Spectral. Far from it. I believe, especially after what LoB has just spoken of, that he certainly is well on the way to having the skills needed to be a very good medium, and I'd dare say he could cofidently call himself a medium already - it appears he has the clairvoyance and clairsentience abilities there already.

When a medium gets to the level of skill to be a mediator, trust in the spirits being channeled is either absolute or not at all. A mediator must be that good, or they should not be mediating for others.

This is why I say I would rather listen to the words of someone who is honest and open in admitting that they are learning to be a medium, rather than someone coming straight out and saying they are mediating a high level being. The latter is not by any means impossible, read up a little on people such as Edgar Cayce. But it does require a skill set that I feel has not yet been shown here.

However, if Spectral or anyone else here CAN show that they have put the time, effort and study in, and CAN show that they have the skill set necessary to be a mediator, they are welcome to channel here.

Why I bring up this point is that this forum has had enough people passing themselves off as channelers, and more than enough arguments over the subject. I think it's time for that to be turned around, for people to firstly be completely honest and up front about what they can or cannot do, and NOT be in it for an ego boost, and secondly for others to realise that being a good medium requires a great deal of patience, practice and development, and not to shoot them down if they make a mistake.

If either of those things cannot happen, then perhaps people should seriously think about whether they should be channeling for a forum like this, or if perhaps they're better off developing their skills amongst friends and other mediums in their area, or just working one on one with people online via email or PM.

False channelings, as have been seen in abundance on the internet, do nobody any good at all.

Spectral,
I apologise if any of my words to you have come across as negative or discoraging. Please, whatever you do, don't be discoraged! I'd hate to see someone with your skills put off developing further because of disagreements on the internet. I come at this from a position of wanting to make sure that what is being presented here from the spirits is trustworthy. Yes, there's that word again, but I maintain that trust is such a very important element that people need to learn if they are to continue dealing with spirits, especially trust in self.

That, I think, is probably all I need say here on this whole subject.
As a forum moderator, and as a "medium in training" myself (in Australia learner drivers must display an "L" plate on their car - I should probably wear one when attending my psychic development circle [:)]), I'd really like to see this whole topic of discussion be taken out of the realm of the snake oil salesmen, and put squarly back where it belongs as an important and useful area of spiritual development.

Kind regards,
James.

quote:

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Originally posted by James S


Spectral,
I apologise if any of my words to you have come across as negative or discoraging. Please, whatever you do, don't be discoraged! I'd hate to see someone with your skills put off developing further because of disagreements on the internet. I come at this from a position of wanting to make sure that what is being presented here from the spirits is trustworthy. Yes, there's that word again, but I maintain that trust is such a very important element that people need to learn if they are to continue dealing with spirits, especially trust in self.

---

quote:

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Spectral, I'm sorry but as far as mediators go, this is not correct.

---

I am also going to say that what I said about mediums always being put to the question is not just my own... it's a known fact among many mediums. That Cassiopean site, for example (fake though it seems to be, I can't seem to find any Cassie's anywhere, nor reptilians unless they are in the guise of such to confuse I will note that I HAVE seen greys, surprisingly enough), also says "there is a chance something can go wrong" (they then go on to say that "but the chances of us going wrong are slim to none) Mediumship is just like everything else in life, there is always something that can go wrong, and especially with this. Since you seem to have made your choice in this that's all I am going to say on that matter except that this is a very questionable situation that mediums have been arguing about since the subject of mediumship was explored.

Secondly: I never said I was questioning myself. I will have you note that I have caught some spirits trying to fake micheal (very easy to spot them, micheal is quite unique.) I made no claims of my skills in mediumship up till this point because quite simply, I was pushed into doing this, and knew that eventually this thread would become "ovverriden/locked out/told to stop" It was inevitable. If I boast of my skill to prove that I can do something that is, quite frankly, contradictory to most people claiming to "set ego aside" for such things.

The pure reason I am telling people to question mediums: As a former skeptic, I understand that people do not want to trust this kind of thing. They have no reason to, and nobody gives suffiecient proof in the eyes of a skeptic.

James I agree you are only being fair here, but you seem to be...not trying to understand my point of view.

One thing I don't qualify for: very hard for me to translate the "vision/ atmosphere" way micheal speaks into words, very difficult to do :( If you wish me to stop because this is causing problems I completely understand.

Unfortunately I am having trouble getting my contacts.

Finally, from what you said above I am guessing you want me to halt my mediations for the moment?  Can I do the questions people wanted me to do on saturday but I didn't get to yet?

quote:

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Originally posted by SpectralDragon
I made no claims of my skills in mediumship up till this point because quite simply, I was pushed into doing this, and knew that eventually this thread would become "ovverriden/locked out/told to stop" It was inevitable. If I boast of my skill to prove that I can do something that is, quite frankly, contradictory to most people claiming to "set ego aside" for such things....

.....Finally, from what you said above I am guessing you want me to halt my mediations for the moment?  Can I do the questions people wanted me to do on saturday but I didn't get to yet?

---

You can detail your level of knowledge, experiences and skills without being boastful. It is not being egotistical to speak of your credentials when someone has asked about them.

Nobody has stepped in to shut down your thread, and nobody I know of intends to. This is your decision to make. If you feel you were pushed into this, do you feel that you are doing the right thing by others here by continuing this type of mediation?

As I mentioned previously, these actions carry with them kharmic responsibilities and concequences. I can't make the decision if you are or aren't doing the right thing here, only you can. Only you can say when you think this should stop. I won't get in the way.

Regards,
James.

It seems that everyone here is saying the same thing, but from a different viewpoint and everyone thinks it's different.  But I don't see much difference.

James feels trust verified from a more 'professional' type angle - an outter mentor, would make him feel comfy because he is the moderator and doesn't want any hokies on this forum and is worried about his readers (I assume here).  That is his best.

Spectral Dragon has cautiously gained trust in the Michael/Spectral Dragon relationship thru his own private methods of inner testing.  This is his best.

Akensai opinionates that true trust can only be had by the one doing it because the rest of us are spectators. This is his best view of it.

Lord of the Bunnies is helping Spectral Dragon verify as much as possible thru doing buddy work on the inner. This is his best.

So guys, it looks like everyone is all looking at the same object here, and it looks like a consensus has been formed.

I, for one, do NOT want to know what Spectral Dragon has had to go thru to get to this point.  It really is none of our business, and feel it would be very unfair to make him bare his soul needlessly.  I agree with Akensai, that, like anything else we come across in life, we have to do our own evaluating to see if we want to use it.  We do that with all other things (even going to the doctor).  It always boils down to that no matter what the source is. That is the bottom line, nitty gritty folks.

So, to the best of Spec's ability he is working his heart out for us.

I say to all of you.  There are those of us who like what he is doing, WE trust it, even if you don't.  If YOU don't like it, leave the thread.  There are many other interesting threads here.  This thread's purpose is not to provide proof to anyone about anything, I don't care what you want.  Like Spectral Dragon says -- take what you can accept or get off the boat and go where you feel comfy. And that is why he says it like that...you never force your stuff on anyone.  

It has already been established (as much as possible) that this is not a hokie site, those of us who are asking questions are VERY sincere.  And I, for one, don't want the rest of you messing up and chasing away this talented guy!

I came here to this forum expressly for this purpose.  I read all the way thru all the posts on 2 other channeling threads and everyone chased away the guy because they wanted proof, they weren't happy.  And neither was I when I got all the way to the end to find this out.  So don't I have rights too?  Give people some credit for brains here, ok?

Spectral deserves some space.  He has rights too!  You people have no idea how hard it is to find someone like this who is sincere and has scruples!  Don't chase him off.  

I think everyone, somehow, is slowly realizing they are saying he same thing from different aspects, and wants to continue.

......>putting duct tape over mouth before I get dragged offstage....

Heya Puff, very good that you mentioned that as reading through this thread I was amazed at the amount of times I'd seen the same argument come from the different perspectives.

You missed a few of the people off your list though, what do you think about Nay's opinion, or Blackbox's opinion?  Or should we stop singling one another out here and start trying to be a little more objective about what we are trying to prove.

I could make an assumption about what you just said, then post a big huge quote from somewhere...

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Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote Bighugequote

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...but that would make it seem like I have no ability to think for myself.  People be clear and consice about what your intentions are, because no-one wants to read through 2 pages of someones personal opinion.

Unless people who make posts on this forum are careful to tip-toe around everyones nay-saying triggers, there is always a big argument that is like a playground argument.  I have seen absolutely no tangible evidence in the arguments presented in this particular thread, other than mindless name calling.  Thanks to the provider of this website, but you really need to keep your children (of all ages) under control.

SD is doing his best to help other people, and if you don't need his help, don't abuse him.  So is every other decent person around here.  You wouldn't walk up to an ambulance driver at an accident scene and try to take his keys because you think automobiles pollute the environment too much would you?  If someone is trying to help other people who respect and request such help, what possible motive will drive you to try and stop them?  Is your help BETTER?  Is everyone being helped perhaps more stupid or ignorant than you because they trust the person who is helping them?  Do you realise this is how you are making the help-seekers feel when you attack their helper?

I talk about help because SD has helped me a great deal, which in turn has helped me actually get on with life.  If that isn't help then I don't know what is.  If you (yes, you) feel that this is wrong then that is your problem.  At least I am happier and don't think about killing myself every day any more.  Thanks SD, for reiki and advice and helping me deal with those pesky negs.

Anyway, rant over, feel free to flame me because I have the nerve to stand up and defend someone who has happened to help me a great deal.

Yikes!  someone pee in your cornflakes this morning Sam?

Haven't seen you about lately, how goes it?

I thought most of the posts in this thread were stated in a matter of fact way, not flaming as yours and puffs...Hmmmmmmmmm..very curious.

I would love to hear how Spectral has been helping, feel free to discuss it!

Smiles~ Nay

When I care, I get emotional.  Taking drink of tea...[:I]  Hmmm, so that is flaming.  To me it was discussion, and I rather enjoyed it.  Will try to be more 'tame' in the future, just be aware I have a portable soap box (my most favorite piece of junk furniture).  As I am aware you have a quick 'delete' key!

Wrote it this a.m. before leaving for work, so apologize for leaving out everyone else.  Early morning thinking isn't my cup of, well, tea.[:)]

aa

quote:

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Originally posted by Nay

Yikes!  someone pee in your cornflakes this morning Sam?

Haven't seen you about lately, how goes it?

I thought most of the posts in this thread were stated in a matter of fact way, not flaming as yours and puffs...Hmmmmmmmmm..very curious.

I would love to hear how Spectral has been helping, feel free to discuss it!

Smiles~ Nay

---

He has helped verify own view-points of things. First you come up with an idea that this must be so or close atleast. Then it gets verified.
As simple as that [:D]

Ahhhhhh..ok, thank you Mystic cloud..[^]

Smiles~ Nay

Since things have seemed to cool down here at least a little bit, I am waiting for lordofthebunnies promised "list."

Oh I'll get it eventually, I just have to round up a bunch of people and see it they want to add anything to it or not.  Since some of them haven't seen this debate, I'm not sure if they'll agree.

Posted - 04 March 2004 :  17:45:07  

Ouch, I have only done 20 mediations since then? [xx(]

88 pages on 10 point font...ouch That's a lot of reading you guys who just started this are doing...and that's just the questions and answers.

EDIT: I take that back, I am trying to make an easy to read thing for you guys but only got it down to 68 pages... ouch.. that's just Q&A not anything else.

You know SD, people get mediations like this published. Genuine ones (which i feel this is for the most part, aside from "interference") that are presented openly and honestly for humanity are wonderful to read. I've been studying The Kryon and other channelings and find it all fascinating. Still, i have to admit that the answers Michael gives are sometimes so cryptic and short that the answer is more frustrating than the question!

quote:

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Originally posted by narfellus

You know SD, people get mediations like this published. Genuine ones (which i feel this is for the most part, aside from "interference") that are presented openly and honestly for humanity are wonderful to read. I've been studying The Kryon and other channelings and find it all fascinating. Still, i have to admit that the answers Michael gives are sometimes so cryptic and short that the answer is more frustrating than the question!

---

That's my fault. I gave an explanation of this a few posts back.

Man, SD those anwsers are just great.  The kyubi that Michele talked about is also mentioned in an anime called Narato, a Nine Tailed Fox Youkai that ravaged the land, but was sealed into a young boy, a rather good anime.

I am very freaked out by his response to my other question though and I am fully convinced that this is real becuase he couldn't have known about her or the others in any other way unless you acctually 'know' me.  I won't post anything he told me here, it is too privite and I really need to think on the things that he said.

quote:

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Originally posted by Van-Stolin

Man, SD those anwsers are just great.  The kyubi that Michele talked about is also mentioned in an anime called Narato, a Nine Tailed Fox Youkai that ravaged the land, but was sealed into a young boy, a rather good anime.

I am very freaked out by his response to my other question though and I am fully convinced that this is real becuase he couldn't have known about her or the others in any other way unless you acctually 'know' me.  I won't post anything he told me here, it is too privite and I really need to think on the things that he said.

---

I didn't even know what the heck he was talking about [xx(] Though I knew what the kiyubi was I didn't know what he was refferencing it to.

But I am glad that it helped you out.

Yeah, I didn't think you would.  Though what he said is dead on, the strength through interference is right on with what happened, I don't know why he would start to mention this though and SD I have to say that this has to be true becuase you couldn't have known that I call my GF my mate.  I will think of some more questions when I can.

During my 'enlightened' period last spring I gained
vast amounts of deep and very abstract knowledge.

It was so abstract that I was not sure about the truthness about it,
but to my surprise some of Michaels answers (not to my questions)
have indicated directly that most of it has indeed been true.
This is also one reason why it is easy to connect and relate
to the answers because many things about the structure I have
already experienced.

Unfortunately I can't even remember half of it because
there were so much of it [:D]

Yo SD, you havent been on AIM much, and Ive been damn busy as well. But I gotta get some more info on the Chimera ive got.

Micheal said earlier, that I myself am not the Chimera. But that beggs the question still... WTF am I?

I know its been difficult to analyze my aura as of late, and the negs have stepped up their effort. I think they sense that they are losing the war, and begining to see me make foreward progress out of their hands.

Although this news is somewhat dis-concerting. I almost feel like f*ing Frodo and the ring. No one gives 2 s**** about be, instead, what I have.

Im gonna have to be awefully cautious these next few days. Im not sure who to trust anymore. You already know that my judgement has been affected as of late. At this point I am on the verge of not listening to myself. All I get from my gut feelings are lies[xx(]

I like the new and advanced version of Michael.

Still I can't imagine why, if there are any here, aliens would steal life energy from us humans. They should know better?

quote:

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Still I can't imagine why, if there are any here, aliens would steal life energy from us humans. They should know better?

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We slaughter 2nd density life for our food. Considering our placed ethics, morals, and advanced spiritual consciousness compared to animals, you would think 'we' would know better also.

quote:

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Originally posted by BlackBox

quote:

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Still I can't imagine why, if there are any here, aliens would steal life energy from us humans. They should know better?

---

We slaughter 2nd density life for our food. Considering our placed ethics, morals, and advanced spiritual consciousness compared to animals, you would think 'we' would know better also.

---

Hmm haven't thought about that in the termes of densities [:D]
Though I suppose we slaughter 3rd density life also for our food.
(Schimpansees for example, now talk about cannibalism [xx(] )

quote:

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Originally posted by BlackBox

quote:

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Still I can't imagine why, if there are any here, aliens would steal life energy from us humans. They should know better?

---

We slaughter 2nd density life for our food. Considering our placed ethics, morals, and advanced spiritual consciousness compared to animals, you would think 'we' would know better also.

---

Yeah that might be truth though. But in my frame of thinking the more spiritually advanced one becomes the more they despice taking advantage of others. Then again, if some one them supposedly have no emotions, they literally can't care. But then another...I can't imagine there are intelligent beings that have no whatsoever emotions at all, I mean isn't that the same like being a ...yeah..yeahh...a Borg?(first wanted to say computer)

Reality:

quote:

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But in my frame of thinking the more spiritually advanced one becomes the more they despice taking advantage of others.

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Would it be fair to say that in the spiritual sense takining advantage of another starts when a person expects to gain more out of the other than what he/she needs?
In other words hunting for food, for example, is not taking advantage but hunting beyond the need for food is?

2cents & L&L
jouni

quote:

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Originally posted by jilola

Reality:

quote:

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But in my frame of thinking the more spiritually advanced one becomes the more they despice taking advantage of others.

---

Would it be fair to say that in the spiritual sense takining advantage of another starts when a person expects to gain more out of the other than what he/she needs?
In other words hunting for food, for example, is not taking advantage but hunting beyond the need for food is?

2cents & L&L
jouni

---

Yes. If you put it like that hunting for flesh is indeed nothing but fullfilling our primary needs [there are other vegetarian ways though these days, however I steal eat flesh heh). Your point is clear enough anyway.

But uhmm...about aliens draining energy from humans, do they need it? I mean isn't there plenty of energy for all of us in nature, or not?

Well, anyway, if I ever meet such a being in the astral, I'il tell them they better stop doing so heh..:D

quote:

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But uhmm...about aliens draining energy from humans, do they need it?

---

Well, I think everyone will guess what my position on beings out to get something form us is.[8D]
I suspect they aren't draining anything since they would probably not have any use for anything we have.

Do you suppose that they don't have their deluded individuals just like we do?

2cents & L&L
jouni

quote:

---

In other words hunting for food, for example, is not taking advantage but hunting beyond the need for food is?

---

2nd Density life (animals) karmically have no ill-will towards being in the circle of life. They are here to have a predator hunt them, and be a predator towards their own prey. That is natural karma.

However, the word 'quality' needs to be analysed. Good food is food that came from high-vibrational animals. A high-vibrational animal would be an animal that, when alive, was loved, cared-for, treated in a proper environment with other high-vibrating creatures. In this type of existence, they do not disagree with their place on the food-chain. They 'know' that instantly after they are killed, they are incarnated again. It is us that complicate death to subjectively examine it as something 'bad'. If a person jumps of the roof of a 44 storey building, he is dead before he hits the ground.

The factories that handle our cattles, the production of our food, do not produce high-vibrational ANYTHING. The animals are in pain from the moment they are born and treated as meaningless forms of life. They are hence, low-vibrational, and the food we eat is low-vibrational, which puts us as levels of energy that, probably, have historically never been seen. It is disgusting to really think about how we treat other lives, all in the name of the Christian industrial age.

---

I could debate if Chimpanzees are 3rd Density form of life. I definately do not believe we evolved from them. That is like comparing one type of machine to another. The evolution theory is designed for skeptical Christians.

High and low vibrational food, eh??? WOW! I never thought of it that way! Our energy body absorbs energy from food right? Are you saying that animals that lived a more free and happily life, will contain much more 'energy' then the unlucky ones who have to put up with 1 meter of living space?

Interesting...so if we changed our whole food production system to producing 'high vibrational food' we hit a higher plateau ourselves as well..

These are ancient truths though, Reality.

The vibrational levels of our food are intended to be low. Humanity is being manipulated and has been for countless of thousands of years.

Why attribute something to an outside force when simple stupidity will do?
Vibrations in food or not, mankind is not exactly the shining crown of the planet based on its behaviour toward other inhabiting the planet, toward each other, toward their own personas...

Treating animals intended for consumption in a decent manner is simply common sense and should be obvious.

Humanity is indeed being manippulated into the proverbial handbasket and the manipulators are greed, egoism, fear and hatred.

2cents & L&L
jouni

quote:

---

Why attribute something to an outside force when simple stupidity will do?

---

Because I see method to the madness. Because I look farther than just 10 years and put everything that has happened before my life into context. Because many things have happened, step-by-step, bringing us to the situation we are in. I'm not so sure it is humanity to blaim...You don't necessarily blame the dog for attacking a child. You search for the owners.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackBox

These are ancient truths though, Reality.

---

According to my experiences no, they are not.

If you go down to second density you are basically going down to chaos. That is what Micheal has impressed me with. All entities we eat are, like ourselves, third density. If you can see it with physical eyes (or the equivalent of in higher planes) then it is indeed of that density.

I once projected myself down to the size of the atom. The way I saw those things work was so beyond my physical comprehension that I cannot possibly describe nor remember what I saw exactly, but below us is another realm of possibility that micheal says we originally came from.

Blackbox the way you are thinking of it, these "densities" appear to be more like "mental boundaries" than actuall density and vibrational levels of an atom. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Jilola according to what Micheal said (and of course as stated before you can take it or leave it I will understand) an animal is more of a group soul, and has little in the way of a personal soul. The impression I got from micheal is that if you hunt to eat the soul of the group won't care, but if you hunt them down to extinction for no reason then you are committing a "very high crime" against that soul.

What I did myself to verify the reality of this is to take a look at a fish tank, and instead of individual soul I noticed an atmosphere soul of sorts, and the fish as individuals were so small as to be almost unapparent, but still there nontheless. Those who can't view can probably feel this out.

SD you really ought to draw color pictures of what you see, that would make it a lot easier to understand!

quote:

---

Blackbox the way you are thinking of it, these "densities" appear to be more like "mental boundaries" than actuall density and vibrational levels of an atom. Please correct me if I am wrong.

---

I think you are correct in your interpretation.

I believe densities = levels of awareness

I personally believe the definition of densities that Michael gives you is disinformation.

When you look at the world as a human (3rd Density Life-form) your brain interprets all the vibrations, thought, energy and translates it all to 3rd Density matter.

When you look at the world as an animal (2nd Density Life-form) your brain interprets all the vibrations, thought, energy and translates it all to 2nd Density matter.

quote:

---

If you can see it with physical eyes (or the equivalent of in higher planes) then it is indeed of that density.

---

Your perception hence awareness determines your perspective of reality. If you are looking at the world through human eyes, you will see only that which is 3D, for this is your environment. The mistake you are making, SD, is that you are assuming that everything you look at looks back at you with the same awareness. A bug for example which you see flying through the skies does not interpret and see you in the same manner. That is absurd. It interprets you, through 1st Density awareness (sensations), which is you as what you really are: Vibrations of energy.

quote:

---

Blackbox the way you are thinking of it, these "densities" appear to be more like "mental boundaries" than actuall density and vibrational levels of an atom. Please correct me if I am wrong.

---

The problem is, as I have said before, you are mixing apples with oranges when contemplating these concepts.

Levels of awareness or "mental boundaries" as you call them, are DIRECTLY connected and inseparable from physical matter. Thought is Matter. What you percieve, your self-concept, your belief-structure, determines what you see, feel, hear, taste, smell. Your sensations are interpreted by your brain which interprets everything to 3D. If you did not have a brain, but were conscious through your spirit alone, you would not be limited/restricted by seeing everything as you do now.

Of course, when you try to think these concepts through while gripping onto your 3D assumptions, you will only see a paradox after another.

---

There are two roads in metaphysics. The one that your Michael portrays along with c-o-u-n-t-l-e-s-s of other new-age mediations/channels, and the other which is heavily attacked for its outright simplicity yet acute structure.

I have tasted both roads. I have debated them with countless of correspondents.

I know what I'm talking about here. "Density" is a highly crucial factor in understanding that will either stagnate or flourish your progress. You cannot define it without understanding it manifests your reality from your interpretation. You cannot assume that what you are looking at is looking at you in the same manner.

Namaste.

Michael is of a higher-density, no-doubt. This is why it has information at its disposal which will astound those who ask questions.

But please people, we are at a crucial moment in time. You must all be vigilant.

I see disinformation subtly slip-in from Michael's mediations from every corner. This great talent that SD has, is not something that hasn't been established before. It is of great-importance that one thing be acknowledged: NO-INFORMATION IS BETTER THAN DISINFORMATION

You will die, only THEN realizing that you were duped.

A 3D psychic could dazzle you in the same manner, but do not forget the bias that must be acknowledged. The Psychic must acknowledge it also.

If the people who read these threads think I speak like a juvenile, then brush my comments away. But if not, understand my main purpose in this life is to help my neighbours, my comrades. You are all here at this time because these are pivotal moments. In a few years, you will be shocked with how many other mediations of this exact tone will appear. They are all filled with half-truths to hook you in for disinformation, which will in-turn create assumptions in your minds that will damage your purpose.

quote:

---

I believe densities = levels of awareness

I personally believe the definition of densities that Michael gives you is disinformation.

---

If densities are indeed determined by levels of awareness and perception, then putting them into neat little structured boxes is inherently wrong.  They would vary depending on how you percieve things.  I think this is what Michael was trying to tell you in his response.

quote:

---

But please people, we are at a crucial moment in time. You must all be vigilant.

---

quote:

---

You will die, only THEN realizing that you were duped.

---

This sounds like Christian dogma to me.  Exactly what is going to happen if we don't accept the Cassiopeans interpretation on densities?

quote:

---

This sounds like Christian dogma to me. Exactly what is going to happen if we don't accept the Cassiopeans interpretation on densities?

---

Just making sure my opinion is broadcasted loud-and-clear.

Obviously I wont push it any farther, but as long as it's noted. [8)]

Toodles.

[EDIT: I think my latest post (not this one) was over-doing it. I even wanted to delete it, because it didn't come out the way I intended. I think it discredits my character, and I apologize. My difference in opinion on 'densities' stand.]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackBox

Michael is of a higher-density, no-doubt. This is why it has information at its disposal which will astound those who ask questions.

But please people, we are at a crucial moment in time. You must all be vigilant.

I see disinformation subtly slip-in from Michael's mediations from every corner. This great talent that SD has, is not something that hasn't been established before. It is of great-importance that one thing be acknowledged: NO-INFORMATION IS BETTER THAN DISINFORMATION

You will die, only THEN realizing that you were duped.

A 3D psychic could dazzle you in the same manner, but do not forget the bias that must be acknowledged. The Psychic must acknowledge it also.

If the people who read these threads think I speak like a juvenile, then brush my comments away. But if not, understand my main purpose in this life is to help my neighbours, my comrades. You are all here at this time because these are pivotal moments. In a few years, you will be shocked with how many other mediations of this exact tone will appear. They are all filled with half-truths to hook you in for disinformation, which will in-turn create assumptions in your minds that will damage your purpose.

---

So after me telling you that the casseopeans are full of dogma and are simply trying to lure people in you throw this out without proof?

quote:

---

The guy is channeling disinformation, IF he's even channeling. The tone of
what comes through is low frequency, something along the lines of a grumpy
discarnate entity, if not made up by SD himself. Even when something
speaks through another, the frequency and tone gets through, but not so
with this guy.

Also notice that "M" misunderstands questions - that can only be so if the
originator of the answers come through 3D thought process rather than
archangelic knowledge.

Next, notice that his stuff does NOT mesh with the C's/Ra material except
on the superficial things that don't affect our own spiritual progress,
our understanding of hyperdimensional reality, or our ability to transcend
the Matrix control system. M talks about multiple universes, but when it
comes to an actual topic like reptilians, organic portals, etc ... he
takes the "don't pay attention to that, it's not important" or "that's not
true" or "here's a smart-butt answer that sidesteps your question" approach
without EVER explaining why or giving more details.

Remember, STS forces tell the truth when convenient. Other times, they
suppress or divert it. M reminds me a lot of "The Author" of Matrix V. Not
saying they're the same person, but they do have the same tone and vibes.

Here's what he advocates:

- doing rituals to get in touch with "archangels" (michael, gabriel,
metatron, etc... are terms heavily promoted in the disinformative type of
channeling. Same goes for mother sekhmet, saint germain, sananda, etc...
These rituals uplink you directly to 4D STS, so of course something will
seem to "guide" you when you do them.)

- that reptilians are not real, and there are only some grays. (then who
made the grays? and why do abductees remember encounters with reptilians?
Why are some reported grays more reptilian in appearance - I've seen one
myself - suggesting they are hybrids but crossed with what? obviously a
reptilian. Why are there ancient accounts and depiction of reptilian
beings, such as the carvings at Mohenjo Daro, Mayan building statues,
ancient figurines, and elsewhere? Why do many world political leaders
obviously hosted by something evil have facial structures that look
reptilian, suggesting the reptilian energy functions as a template to
shape their physical growth over the years? Why are dragons so popular in
mythology from europe to asia?)

- that M occupies 27th density. Is that a joke? He has no understanding of
what a density is. Also funny that "The Author" of Matrix V claims to get
his knowledge from monroe's Focus Level 27. Why do disinformation sources
always use the same symbolism and terminology? Oh yeah, because it all
comes from the same originator.

My opinion is that SD is either making this up (lying, basically, and it's
more funny that later he said that the channeling sources you have
"verified" could be lying, something of a projection on his part) or else
he's tapping into the channeling disinformation pool that others connect
to, like these people: http://www.quatloos.com/NESARA.htm (scroll down,
in the left column are some audio files called "message from Lord Sananda"
and "afternoon with Mother Sekhment" - listen to one, and you'll know what
I'm talking about).

Later SD says this:

"Let me tell you one thing. If anyone ever claims ANY CHANNELING IS
"VERIFIED" they are full of it. The only way to know for a fact is to be a
watcher of the channeling itself, and you can't really do that very well
over the internet. Even at that viewing is not always a good way to know
if something is genuine, because the guy could easily be lying. You can't
know for a fact that a channeling is true, unless you do the channeling
yourself, and even at that you have to be a "master" at it. These so
called "elders" don't know what they are talking about, sorry to say."

Obviously he doesn't know the meaning of the term "discernment" or
"research" or "intuition". You don't have to be at a channeling to know
that it's legit. I attended a cass session myself, and could see myself
that no one at the board was making it up because the letters came too
quickly and the answers were of things that the board operators themselves
couldn't know (like personal details, answering the question correctly
when even the board operators didn't understand the question themselves),
but in fact, how it's done is inconsequential since what matters is the
material that gets through, which anyone can discern for himself as to
whether it's worthy or not. As I pointed out above, M gives crappy
information that's often false or contradictory or avoids answering the
question or misunderstands it completely.

What does it take to verify channeling? That it's self-consistent,
independent of the channeler's level of confusion or ignorance, that it
explains things better than any other theory out there, that no facts
disprove it's main premises, that it has a lucid and wise vibe and
demonstrates this through the conciseness and accuracy of answers given,
that it respects freewill but nevertheless intentionally guides one toward
the truth, and that it makes statements which later are verified through
independent research and experience.

Attending a channeling is one way for 4D STS to use their tricks to add a
"wow" factor to convince the gullible with levitations and balls of light,
things that have nothing to do with the material given by the channeing
itself.

Feel free to post this email to the board.

---

I originally was not going to comment on this, but if you actually take a look you can see what this guy is throwing at you and how he isn't really looking at my mediations at all, I did indeed give out personal information I could not have known at all. This specific statement is dogma all the way:

quote:

---

Next, notice that his stuff does NOT mesh with the C's/Ra material excepton the superficial things that don't affect our own spiritual progress,our understanding of hyperdimensional reality, or our ability to transcend the Matrix control system. M talks about multiple universes, but when it comes to an actual topic like reptilians, organic portals, etc ... he takes the "don't pay attention to that, it's not important" or "that's not true" or "here's a smart-butt answer that sidesteps your question" approach
without EVER explaining why or giving more details.

---

Most people can look at these channelings and tell by actions such as these that this is nothing more than simple dogma being thrown at them.

My point here is, blackbox, that your casseopean "religion" is all dogma, and I have yet to see anything of substance. I did read a lot of those channelings, and I found a lot of crap.

For the final time, I am done commenting about this to you. You have shown us many times that you are almost fanatically for these other channelings and as such arguing with you has become counter-productive.

I think the "reptiles" are rather humorous in a ridiculous way. It's a paranoid fantasy cemented by paranoia and nothing substantial.

I've read all of AA posts; some things align with ways I think, but in a lot of ways it's also always playing it safe.

At present I don't believe in mediations or channeling of any kind. I don't even understand how they are necessary given the abilites of so many other alleged paranormal things. As far as progression further spiritual understanding, I'm not sure the info has done anything at all.

In most psychic type divining or whatever you want to call it, people pick out the parts that relate to them and that they like, and the rest of it conveniently forget, especially the parts that falt-out contradict what they know to be true.

Can anyone make a synopsis of all information spiritually pertinent? Or is it all smoke?

SD, my concern is to have my opinion on your material stated so that any wandering readers will have it noted.

The cassiopaean material is not what I necessarily hold as 100% true. The channel labelled its mediations itself as 70% correct, 30% bias.

I believe in densities of awareness and that disinformation comes in all sorts of packages. I think you are mediating disinformation. Your channel will, of course, have information that will astound those who ask questions. But that is not an indication of verifying the source as safe. Your mediations are among countless others with the same tone and the same subtle strings of disinformation.

Your diagnosis on all of the material I think are credible, has always been with lack of time, effort, and an open-mind.

Namaste.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackBox

Michael is of a higher-density, no-doubt. This is why it has information at its disposal which will astound those who ask questions.

But please people, we are at a crucial moment in time. You must all be vigilant.

I see disinformation subtly slip-in from Michael's mediations from every corner. This great talent that SD has, is not something that hasn't been established before. It is of great-importance that one thing be acknowledged: NO-INFORMATION IS BETTER THAN DISINFORMATION

You will die, only THEN realizing that you were duped.

A 3D psychic could dazzle you in the same manner, but do not forget the bias that must be acknowledged. The Psychic must acknowledge it also.

If the people who read these threads think I speak like a juvenile, then brush my comments away. But if not, understand my main purpose in this life is to help my neighbours, my comrades. You are all here at this time because these are pivotal moments. In a few years, you will be shocked with how many other mediations of this exact tone will appear. They are all filled with half-truths to hook you in for disinformation, which will in-turn create assumptions in your minds that will damage your purpose.

---

I listened to the same frequency as you last spring for a while,
but then I switched it because I believed it was all BS. Or maybe
true for some and in some cases but for me it was . . . .. .

There are a LOT of frequencies out here that goes on 24/7,
most of them are junk anyway. One sure frequency is you, yourself
and your Higher Self.

But still, why are so many people hysterical about things?
We are in the end almost Immortal begins, so what is the
point in being worried? [:D]

And yes we are at a very crucial time in moment. Humanity will evolve from being a primitive 'idiotic' culture into being a primitive culture.

Blackbox, as I keep stating, take mediums with a grain of salt, and you seem to keep forgetting that I have repeatedly said that. I still have yet to see your proof, it's still a bunch of dogma.

Mactombs I think part of the problem with that is people interpret things differently.

xx

(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif)I'm the weird one out, so can someone explain what all these densities are?  What is the fourth density?  I THINK that it is just another word for planes, vibrations or something..I'm not sure.[:I]

PS. What is STO & STS stuff?  I know, it's probably been explained, but I need it explained again..[^]

Thanks,

Nay

xx

LOL..ahhhhhh of course, the next to the 3rd..[:D]

Still don't know what all the densities mean, perhaps, break it down for me.[?]  Gosh, I just know this has been talked about already.[:I]

Sorry, Nay [^]

Nay,

Read my 3rd post on this thread: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12807&whichpage=1

As I said in the other thread before I read this one, it would be interesting to figure out what guardian I might have. I was always the weird kid. Like Blackstream, I love dragons. The two I have created in my mind are Sun and Moon. I think my natural element is water, since I am a strong swimmer and feel good energy from it. I hope this is enough info and that you guys have agreed that Michael is indeed an Arch Angel. Anyway SD I hope this isn't too much trouble!
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
Please refer to me as SoulDragon so there is no confusion.

Tyler

SD I have noticed you seem to have some individuals that work hard to express how they are helping others by warning others that you are a fraud. When you look at this expression does it occur to you that they are saying the creator does not love these poor misguided souls enough to protect them from the " monster " they have labeled you? Are they saying that if not  for thier attacks on you and what your trying to do, that you all by yourself, could pervert the human race and that they with thier magic powers and hand made capes and opinions of what is truth are saving the whole human race from you and the readings your doing?  Seems to me they are calling the readers of your writings on your meditations simple minded.  I would hope instead that they understood that we learn from where we need to learn and are guided to look at what serves us best and that we can learn from you or michael or the fifth grader that smiles and gives us part of thier candy. If what we seek is unconditional love at the end of the day then if we love each other  we will allow unconditional acceptance to make the truth of others just fine with out need to attack or defend. I would suggest that in the same way you can not reason with a chemical in a drug addict you can not reason with fear energy and its compulsion to attack and defend it comings and its goings. Like you  those that need to reach out to you and what your doing will be pushed to read as you are pushed to write.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nay

LOL..ahhhhhh of course, the next to the 3rd..[:D]

Still don't know what all the densities mean, perhaps, break it down for me.[?]  Gosh, I just know this has been talked about already.[:I]

Sorry, Nay [^]

---

I think you would know 4th density better as "etheric" [;)] Hopefully that explains it for you, if not I can go into more detail though other people might be going under "different systems/ideals" than me.

quote:

---

SD I have noticed you seem to have some individuals that work hard to express how they are helping others by warning others that you are a fraud. When you look at this expression does it occur to you that they are saying the creator does not love these poor misguided souls enough to protect them from the " monster " they have labeled you? Are they saying that if not for thier attacks on you and what your trying to do, that you all by yourself, could pervert the human race and that they with thier magic powers and hand made capes and opinions of what is truth are saving the whole human race from you and the readings your doing? Seems to me they are calling the readers of your writings on your meditations simple minded. I would hope instead that they understood that we learn from where we need to learn and are guided to look at what serves us best and that we can learn from you or michael or the fifth grader that smiles and gives us part of thier candy. If what we seek is unconditional love at the end of the day then if we love each other we will allow unconditional acceptance to make the truth of others just fine with out need to attack or defend. I would suggest that in the same way you can not reason with a chemical in a drug addict you can not reason with fear energy and its compulsion to attack and defend it comings and its goings. Like you those that need to reach out to you and what your doing will be pushed to read as you are pushed to write.

---

Well this is true, but I do feel I am defined by the ones who wish to try to define me. In this sense I do care that when it comes to them saying "this or that is wrong," that understanding be reached.

Looking at it in the context you placed it, it does appear that both sides are being quite egotistical in that view [;)]

You know what, I dont think it matters what Michael really is. Nor that someone else can judge/make assumptions about him, except SD himself. If he's gotten so far that he's able to mediate, and astrally project as he claims he is able to, he can probably also decide what's best for him. Sorry that I'm speaking for you, but I felt this was needed to be said.

What matters is the answers he provides us with. And it's totally up to us how to interpret them. We can take them for the whole truth or for a total lie. You know what, I have a feeling that such beings might actually intentionally provide us with half truths, to stimulate the ones who read them, to think for themselves. ?

~reality

There is something that I'd like to hear about though, SD.

You said you receive your answers through visions right? Can you describe in what way you perceive your visions?

Because a few days ago in my sleep, I had a quiet extraordinary dream/projection/orwhatever it was. I found myself in my room, and suddenly a white spark of light appeared, and it grew almost instantly to a white screen of light at the size of a small home cinema, floating in my room. And in the middle was an even lighter figure that looked like it was a cloaked humanoid. It quickly vanished though, and I started seeing all kinds of images in it, that I dont clearly remember, and not interesting right now to elaborate on.

What do you think about that SD? Do you smell a similarity in the air? ;)

The visions I get from time to time are basically
'films' with 'emotions' attached to them. Imo it is the
communication behind language with words that is in a more direct
way.

Hard to explain what these are since they are beyond words.
It is not something that is even close to 'minds eye' or
imagination. It is something more real.

But I'll let SD answer how he experiences 'em [:)]

I'm continuing a discussion began in the main thread here (since SD requested it be moved)

quote:

---

Now who's being closed-minded? I suppose if you don't want to hear it one way, you can spend your time looking somewhere else. I can't tell you what reality is, because I have no idea.

---

I admit, I am a tad bit closeminded about objective vs subjective reality, but that's because I've already held that discussion like 20 times.  Anyways, my point was more like, for some people, the path towards greater awareness is not just a deeply personal thing.  Maybe some aspects are, but some of the more objective things like the existance of aliens and ways to do telekineses aren't so deeply personal, and that's where help from outside sources comes in.  I think that's what most people are doing with Michael.  Admited, some people are asking Michael things on the more personal side, but I see no reason to have to persue personal matters alone if you don't want to.

quote:

---

I don't know what it is that everyone else is supposed to know. If it's about spirituality, then just how does time affect it? What's 20 years in eternity? Again, spirituality is not Calculus. I will, however, concede that it is of value to listen to other people's advice, although with care, as cube pointed out. You also seem to completely miss the notion of the Higher Self.

---

20 years in eternity?  Nothing obviously.  But we don't live for an eternity do we?  I've only got about 60 years left to go, and 20 years is a pretty big chunk to take out of that.  Once I die, I take my knowledge and experiences with me, if I can't share what I've learned with others.  We as a species do have an eternity so to speak to progress higher if we share and learn from each other.  But if we are born, learn by ourselves, then die, then we'll spend an eternity learning the same things over and over again.

And what does the higher self have to do with anything?

quote:

---

Maybe you should read through the posts again. For instance:

quote:

---

Answer: There are always visitations by spirits to this solar system. The Zetas, or greys as most of you know them as, have based thier travel on phasing in and out of astral as physical trave through the stars is impossible. The pole shift and 2012 war are related in that both are going to happen and they won't take place in an instant, events will lead to them

---

---

I think I failed to find where Michael is starting a cult, raising emtions, telling people to abandon their possessions, or even prepare for a fight. How is this in any negative?  Especically if what he is saying is true?  The only way I can see this is if you think that the shift and war isn't happening, but there's no proof of this either way.

Also, just because it's already been said there is another reason for feeling tired doesn't mean that is the fact. Consider the source:

quote:

---

Has there been any other expanation offered about the draining than that offered by the "angel"?

---

The fact that SD says the same thing?  Only SD really knows what's going on... I'd tend to believe the tornado thing, but you'd really have to be in SDs shoes to really know what was going on.

quote:

---

I wouldn't even be replying if you weren't so adamant about Michael not being a negative entity.

---

Because obviously both of us believe the opposite thing about Michael :)


The fact of the matter is, the thing it comes down to is, the only thing we have to go off of is the drained feeling that SD feels after projecting.

Two questions though.

1) Why does Michael only come to him when he has a directly line to mars, if he's just a negative entity?  I'd have picked a tree or something so I could get SD talking to me more than once every 3 or 4 days.

2) This isn't really a question.  What it really boils down to is that the only way for us to know what Michael really is, is to talk to him ourselves.  Failing that, just take the meditations that SD does with a grain of salt, but keep them in mind and examine them (i.e., use critical thinking, don't just blindly accept them).  Which SD, Michael, and you have all said (and why would a negative entiy say to use critical thinking on his questions rather than blindly accept them?)

Some things to consider:

A while ago a relative to me died, so I made a
journey to her to see if she was alright and needed an escort.

When I got into contact of her I was really amazed and anxious
about the strongness of the field she was emitting. It literally
felt like I was being torn into different directions at the sametime.
Though I hadn't done alot of practices lately and wasn't that high
on average vibration, but the effects would still probably have
been very strong.

I got so anxious about this feeling that I wanted to quit it as
soon as I could. I stayed there for a while. Then I left and came
back. I felt tired afterwards. If I would have stayed for a long
time I would have probably gotten drained by the pressure and effort.

Today I went to buy crystals that resonated with my being.
I bought 7 of them and it was very demanding on my energy to
pick out the ones that resonated the most with my being.
After 3-4 crystals I got anxious and felt drained and my mind
was all confused and spinning.

So if something drains you of energy, don't think immediately
that it is a neg. Since that can be used by a REAL neg to just manipulate you further into its own benefits [}:)]

Also most negs(that I have stumbled upon) tend to emit a negative aura that is comparable to a very bad stench. If you have even the slightest psychic posibilities then you can detect this.

Of course I think that there are 'higher hierarchy' negs that
really are intelligent and have a wide energy knowledge.
Which can be used to trick people.

The safest thing is always to just trust yourself, and listen to yourself and your higher self. No one else matters but YOURSELF.
You can get answers from outside, but they don't mean anything unless
you already have pieces of them inside yourself. Outside sources
are mostly used to verify inner sources.

Too many people go along the religions with blind faith and
little practical experience and imo it is just stupid, since
many can use that for manipulation very easily.

With the Michael answers some of them have been very
perfectly tailored to fit my own Being at a deeper level,
and now I do _NOT_ mean the words that SD typed but something
much deeper than even language itself. This transmission
again is something that no one else but me can read and grasp.

For some others again they might experience that the answers are
just pure crap and nothing sounds truthful in them. Nothing wrong with this in my opinion. It is still ONLY your own opinion, maybe
many others too. But still that does NOT mean that it is the truth
for everyone, or the reality for everyone. We all live in our
own worlds and our own lives. Everything we experience are filtered
through our own consciousness(s). One might think we do not
even exist at all when the other may think that we live forever.

Step out of your egos and open your eyes.
Nothing has any "sense" in it anyway in the end, so enjoy
while you can... [}:)][:D]

Lite the sprite commercial said:
 "Trust your instincts, be yourself!"

'nuff said

Im a little late on this topic and have only recently read all the mediations. Only one thing pops to mind- which is why the HELL someone hasnt already tried THIS:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have looked extensivly for that ritual you described. Unfortunatly I only find shams and typical internet BS. Is there any other way of validing him?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

---

         


Answer: this ritual being described here is very complex. More so than it will seem at first.

You need a ritual dagger. Take the dagger and face south. Draw a circle in the air, as perfect as you can get it, and then draw the pentagram in the circle starting from the left-up point and going in the direction of the point directly right of the left most top point, and continueing in that pattern. This circle needs to be low to the ground and only natural ground like dirt will do.

Face east, and the circle now becomes a line, and you draw a circle around the line. Do another pentagram, this one starting from bottom left point, then moving to top right point, and continuing.

Do the circle again, this one on the ground aligned with the other two. The top point should point east. The point you start is the top, and the point you go to next will be the bottom right. Stab the middle of the circle and vibrate with your soul: Al-Leh (Metatron in some kind of language) Make sure that you are standing in the circle when you do this. The feelings you project through the blade MUST be strong while you do this ritual please note.

Please note that it helps immensely if you vibrate the following for each point of the pentagram: Top is "spirit"(so whenever you reach this point you vibrate "spirit",) Top left is Fire, top right is air, bottom left is Earth, bottom right is water.

---

Id be interested to know if the person who got this answer actually tried this..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zangatese

Im a little late on this topic and have only recently read all the mediations. Only one thing pops to mind- which is why the HELL someone hasnt already tried THIS:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have looked extensivly for that ritual you described. Unfortunatly I only find shams and typical internet BS. Is there any other way of validing him?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

---

         


Answer: this ritual being described here is very complex. More so than it will seem at first.

You need a ritual dagger. Take the dagger and face south. Draw a circle in the air, as perfect as you can get it, and then draw the pentagram in the circle starting from the left-up point and going in the direction of the point directly right of the left most top point, and continueing in that pattern. This circle needs to be low to the ground and only natural ground like dirt will do.

Face east, and the circle now becomes a line, and you draw a circle around the line. Do another pentagram, this one starting from bottom left point, then moving to top right point, and continuing.

Do the circle again, this one on the ground aligned with the other two. The top point should point east. The point you start is the top, and the point you go to next will be the bottom right. Stab the middle of the circle and vibrate with your soul: Al-Leh (Metatron in some kind of language) Make sure that you are standing in the circle when you do this. The feelings you project through the blade MUST be strong while you do this ritual please note.

Please note that it helps immensely if you vibrate the following for each point of the pentagram: Top is "spirit"(so whenever you reach this point you vibrate "spirit",) Top left is Fire, top right is air, bottom left is Earth, bottom right is water.

---

Id be interested to know if the person who got this answer actually tried this..

---

Micheal never told me what happens, so I myself am very intersted in this as well.

I've been trying a similar ritual, except that this one is for Gabriel and faces different dirrections.  Although it seems simple, its actually more difficult than the Lesser Banishing Ritual.  I have yet to get it just right, but I'll post my experiences when I do.

It seems I have been put under the looking glass quite a bit lately, no small wonder. There can't be proof I can give to prove that this is the real thing. The only thing you can really go on is heresay.

I think that after this week I am going to take a small break from this. I have other things I have to work on anyway.

There is an old saying "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy".

I think many people do not understand the hours of time and the intense mental effort required to do this.  Take a vacation [8D] and just enjoy the heck out of everything!

"all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy".
Now THOSE are some of the most enlightened words I've seen in this forum in a while!

Something I recently read in a book on psychic development that I think should really be taken to heart:

First rule of psychic development: have fun!

Last rule of psychic development: have fun!

quote:

---

Originally posted by James S

"all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy".
Now THOSE are some of the most enlightened words I've seen in this forum in a while!

Something I recently read in a book on psychic development that I think should really be taken to heart:

First rule of psychic development: have fun!

Last rule of psychic development: have fun!

---

That is soooo true. You have to enjoy this kind of stuff to get the most of it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SpectralDragon

It seems I have been put under the looking glass quite a bit lately, no small wonder. There can't be proof I can give to prove that this is the real thing. The only thing you can really go on is heresay.

I think that after this week I am going to take a small break from this. I have other things I have to work on anyway.

---

Was a few weeks ago going to propose a vacation from this,
but then I figured that it is your own personal matter [:D]

If you want to know why I don't take this to my site, it's quite simple. unlike you, I have a sense of pride. I will finish what I started.

Now go ahead and be a big hypocrit and call me a liar and idiot again. I am getting tired of you Nay, you don't listen, you said that I enjoyed my past of getting abused and going through shamanic initiation, and you continually bash my abilities.

can you tell I am ticked? shaken up? DOES THIS MAKE YOU HAPPY?

Please stop putting words in my mouth..

And why in the world can you not continue it over there????  Just add your website link to the bottom of your threads..I'll be happy to do it for you..

I'm sure Micheal can find you on either site..right?

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-085.gif)

Well, frankly it is surprising and confusing..  I think ya'll just like attention.  

You guys have done nothing but complain about how things are run here, and how people question things, if that is the case, then....well?????????

*walks off confused*

Nay

Edit:  

quote:

---

I am getting tired of you Nay, you don't listen, you said that I enjoyed my past of getting abused and going through shamanic initiation, and you continually bash my abilities.

---

I feel that this needs to be brought to the true light.  If you remember I was being attacked by four people on messenger..not good odds, but I digress, I was looking at what one of the other guys were typing not you, Jason..not everyone hangs on your every word.. so I was replying to the OTHER guy, not your abuse..and just like you to bring that up again..*sigh*  Why in the world would I enjoy someone getting abused, when myself went through abuse? I wouldn't period.  And I thought we hashed this one out already and found that to be the case?  Your manipulation of the truth is getting tiresome.  I just wanted to set the record straight that I'm not THAT evil..[^]

Ok..Runlola..insert your oneliner here..[:D]

I believe it is the content, not the amount that matters..[^]

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-084.gif)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nay

Well, frankly it is surprising and confusing..  I think ya'll just like attention.  

---

When I look at the big picture I do not see nor feel anyone
wanting unnecessary attention. Adding personal emotions to
matters just clouds it up into an emotional-based maya. Far
from the important aspects of the whole issue.

quote:

---

You guys have done nothing but complain about how things are run here, and how people question things, if that is the case, then....well?????

---

There is ALWAYS someone who complains. This happens especially with
people in 'power'. From personal experience I may say that it usual
makes only matters worse to try to 'convince' the attacker that
your own viewpoint is right. It is usually also energy draining.


Besides your own viewpoint is only your own viewpoint based on your
own life-experience. So why try to convince someone else that your
dream is the 'right' one?

Anyway this is still a thread for discussing the answers of Michael
and the meditation and not for personal flaming. In my opinion the
flaming or arguing can be done through PM or other chats.

Mystic Cloud.. You are quite right and believe me it has been done in PM's..[;)]

But I still do not understand why keep it here?...Am I the only one who doesn't get it?  If I had my own website, I would be spending my time there, wouldn't you?

It is not like we would keep people from going there and enjoying the wisdom of Micheal.  It's obviously been talked about enough to know Jason has his own website, which is great..so why not take advantage of that?

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-090.gif)

There were some things said on this thread (and the Fictional worlds thread), that I felt I needed to address.

quote:

---

is Spectraldragon really projecting, staying awake & typing whilst mediating an arch-angel ?!!

---

Spectral is not the only person I have heard of who talks about maintaining dual awareness on the astralplane and the physical plane.  There are some magicians and mystics who also possess this ability.  At times when doing the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, I myself have gotten impressions from the archangels which may have indeed been them trying to impart advice to me.  

For several years I heavily doubted Spectral's skill, partly due to my religious upbringing, but after he continually kept proving things to me I had to admit that something was going on.  Back when I first met him, I tested him out by having him watch at what I was doing through the astral while I stood at the other end of a house, focusing on my aura.  When he came back, he hold me that he saw my aura gather in close then stream upward, forming into a pillar that went upward, which was exactly what I had done.  Another time I was forming thoughtforms, and without any tips he saw me form a thoughtform that looked like one of those monsters from the movie Critters.  He saw it fly around the room and land on his shoulder.  Near the end, I closed my eyes, and visualized a ball with spikes forming in midair, which he also described in acute detail.  There were several other instances when he was able to observe the things in my room. Other times he surprised people at work, at one point he observed a woman coming in and taking off her coat although in a back room, much to the surprise of a friend of ours.

Also, I was present to observe some of the horrible events that lead up to his gaining skill at astral projection, and although inadvertant, it was easy to see how such experiences might force him to develop dual awareness.  In many ways it was more of a two-edged sword than anything.  I wont go into the specifics of what happened, as that is personal information, but needless to say it was far more intense "training" than what most people probably undertake in order to project.

Along with several other memberson here, I am really quite indebted to Spectral. Quite frankly, other than several things he has verified for me, I have seen precious little evidence for the astral in most posts here.  Furthermore, I might still be trapped in the Jehovahs Witness sect were it not for his help, something for which I am eternally gratefull.  

quote:

---

Or, is he merely (I'm guessing here) a teenage American male, sitting at his computer, getting kicks from all the interaction on the Astralpulse ?!

---

I can understand why it would seem this way, but this is simply not the case.  First of all, Spectral is not a teenager.  I have been with spectral during many of these mediations, and it was easy to see that he was not simply doing this for kicks, and was concerned about whether or not it would serve to help others.  He did indeed become quite physically tired after some of his mediations.  I could also tell that he did not particularily enjoy doing it, but rather felt that he had too.  It is often not easy to get an accurate picture of someone's inner self and motives over the internet, seeing them in person is far different.  I have known him for over five years now, and now him better than just about anyone.  You may not believe me, but I will state once again that he is not trying to fool anyone.  The only real criticism I have of Spectral, is that he should have done this later after he had gotten more skill at writing and interpreting what Michael told him.

Nay, you keep saying that Spectral should take this (along with the fictional worlds topic) over to his own site where everyone will believe him.  There is actually not that much discussion of these two topics going on at Spectral's site, and as to whether most of the members believe it or not, I don't know, as we haven't really asked them.  The members aren't all people below the age of 19 either, some are much older than Spectral.  I myself am one year older than Spectral, and I am not his "follower" either, as I aim to be better than him one day. [:P]

Also, one of the reasons Spectral is doing this here is because he does not want people swamping the website me and him created.  It is quite nice and peaceful right now, and we don't want it being swamped.  Oftentimes, forums begin to degrade in quality the more people there are posting on them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nay

Mystic Cloud.. You are quite right and believe me it has been done in PM's..[;)]

---

So why not continue with it?

quote:

---

But I still do not understand why keep it here?...Am I the only one who doesn't get it?  If I had my own website, I would be spending my time there, wouldn't you?

It is not like we would keep people from going there and enjoying the wisdom of Micheal.  It's obviously been talked about enough to know Jason has his own website, which is great..so why not take advantage of that?

---

Probably has not occurred to you that you reach more people here
than on the small grouped www site. Which means more feedback
on the whole issue etc.

Regarding information/meditation/channelings I hold Frank's post in
the Fictional worlds thread VERY high and in my opinion so should
everyone else too. It is repeated over and over from different
sources to not trust spirits but trust yourself only.

As Robert Bruce wrote:

"The fact is that one does not need spirits for psychic and spiritual advancement. It's far preferable to get in touch with one's own inner self, to develop contact with one's higher self, rather than to seek the help of unknown spirit beings. One should not look outside oneself for spiritual knowledge and development. As psychic development is a side effect of spiritual development, one best not sought for its own sake, it's unwise to skip the long-term application of self-discipline necessary for true spiritual and psychic development to unfold."

"Psychic abilities hold glamor, such that if sought for their own sake, they can greatly distract one from spiritual progress. Instead of stripping away inner barriers between one's inner and highest self, new barriers are created and existing ones reinforced."

I'm pretty sure most talented psychics know this fact already. A
well known kundalinist named Sri Swami Sivananda wrote almost
exactly like Robert Bruce that Psychic skills is the _SIDE EFFECT_
of spiritual development and not the other way around. This
is in many cases very unfortunate.

I myself cannot stress the importance of making a good contact
with your Higher Self. In it you will find all the answers to
all your questions.

Perhaps you mean WHY continue with it?

I don't know..been asking myself that question for some time now..

quote:

---

Probably has not occurred to you that you reach more people here
than on the small grouped www site. Which means more feedback
on the whole issue etc.

---

But the people already know of his threads here, plus it seems they know of his site there..so..I'm thinking they can put two and two together.  I have no problem directing people to his site..non what so ever.

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-085.gif)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nay

Perhaps you mean WHY continue with it?

I don't know..been asking myself that question for some time now..

quote:

---

Probably has not occurred to you that you reach more people here
than on the small grouped www site. Which means more feedback
on the whole issue etc.

---

But the people already know of his threads here, plus it seems they know of his site there..so..I'm thinking they can put two and two together.  I have no problem directing people to his site..non what so ever.

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-085.gif)

---

It is being continued here Nay, but hopefully without the fighting that just keeps going and going and going and going and.......

See that was more than a three lines, and it wasn't deleted.

Stopping it..no.. wondering why it isn't on his own website, yes.

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-053.gif)

This thread is going to get locked soon too, especially if Nay keeps it up. [8)] Is that your intent Nay? or are you going to look at things from our angle for once?

Yeah, such irony..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-059.gif)

What's wrong with my smilies? (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-027.gif)  I think they are cute.. he seems to use them alot on his forum, but no complaints over there..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-041.gif)

Check this one out..cute! (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-047.gif)  or this one..even cuter! (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-074.gif)

I've got a million of them..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/musik/music-smiley-026.gif)

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-006.gif)

Hahahahaha, I don't even know what that means..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/waffen/violent-smiley-031.gif)

If it means stealing..nope.(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/huepfen/jumping-smiley-021.gif)  They say use it at will..

You want the link?..pretty cool and very addictive..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/grinser/grinning-smiley-043.gif)

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/auto/car-smiley-011.gif)

It's not the smilies you just used, its the smug [^] smilies.  You use them frequently, and although it may not be your intention, it makes your posts seem very smug.

Hahahahahaha...I did not know that was a smug smilie!  That is considered smug? [^]<---- I just thought it meant I wasn't smiling so big that my teeth showed..  Kinda like a agreement smile..[^]

LOL..this is too funny, but hey, lordbunny, ya have to love this one..
(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-052.gif)

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-085.gif)

Edit: that wasn't the right one..don't jump on me, this is the one I meant..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-053.gif)

OOOOOOhhhhhhh...(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/teufel/devil-smiley-083.gif)

Guess I'll take my chances..too much fun right now..(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/grinser/grinning-smiley-029.gif)

Nay (http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/grinser/grinning-smiley-026.gif)

Nay,

Hmmmm....I don't know of a nice way to say this....

For a moderator I find your actions a hit below the belt and your words cutting and cruel.

You don't care about the rest of us WANTING this thread to continue, you don't care that the rest of us accept Spectral Dragon as he is, and you don't care to listen to anyone elses reasonable remarks.

Conclusion:  you are having a nice personal vendeta, using 'moderator' as a power shield.  

Note:  I think quite a few in this thread also enjoy other items on the forum, and your actions (as a moderator) reflect on the forum as a whole.

Duly noted Puff and thank you for you comments..[^] <---- not smug, just agreeing.

Nay

Yeah, if it was a cult following then everyone would be agreeing with Michels anwsers.  The only thing so far that I don't agree on was the fact that he said that the future isn't written in stone, but what I think is that there are more different paths leading up to what your future holds.  No matter what you do, you will always end up at that one spot and depending on what you did in the past could affect the outcome of that one spot in your life.

I do have to say that his anwsers to the questions that I asked so far have been right on, but even though they do seem accurate, I won't turn to Micheal everytime I need a question anwsered, which is why I have been having some trouble thinking up questions, I have either anwsered them myself through my higherself or through various sources, which is what Micheal was trying to get us to do in the first place.  Relfect on these things and try to improve ourselfs with understanding, so weather you really agree with what SD says that he is doing or not, you have still thought about it havn't you.

Here's an excerpt from John Michael Greer's book Monsters on the topic of angels:

quote:

---

It's worth remembering that not everything that calls itself an angel deserves the title. Fays, spirits, intelligences, and demonic entities, among others, are perfectly capable of putting on a vaguely angelic form and name if it suits their purposes. There are plenty of entities that will play such games.

This sort of charade is particularly common in the case of "channeled entities" who reveal themselves solely by way of a human channeler or medium. None of the traditional accounts of the angelic realm suggest that angels communicate in this way.

---

I also found it a bit eerie that the brief depiction of the archangel Michael goes: "guardian of the sun and slayer of the dragon".

Well it was Christian belief that the dragon was evil, the dragon was also the symbol of the burning desire to fight, that was the whole point to the story of the brave knight killing the dragon and rescuing the maidan.  Really it means getting rid of that will, so that you may live in peace, but I really don't think there will ever be a true peace, even if mankind were to obtain it there would always be something else willing to fight and kill at a moments interest.

Though Dragons arn't like the stories though, met a few and you become freinds with them easily if you are respectful enough, just don't make them mad as some have very short tempers.  Though this is the astral mind you and it could just be that they are thought forms that have gained sentience and souls like Michele says can happen.

Though Mactombs, SD says that he is starting to not feel so drained by this anymore and even if this being isn't really a true angel, the information that we are reciving when looking at it objectivly enough and really thinking about it and not just blindly accepting it as truth, is really good, REALLY good when it is cross referenced with some of the stuff that you already know about things.  Like I have said before, the anwser to my questions really startled me, this being obiosly has some power as its awnsers were really accurate as seen in this.

This is the personal anwser to my question about a dream that I had

3. I had a weird dream once, I thought that it was just from a neg attachment that I had, but now I want to verify it with you if it held any simbolic meaning.

M: You like the fight? (ask this of yourself he needs no answer--SD)

There are many people with such dreams, the fight is a sign of the will to live, and being the overseear of dreams I would like to say that the fight against fear was a sign to you from me, fear is the main thing a neg preys on. Do not let it control your fear.

Do you like the water, ever flowing during that one period?

Water is a calming part of the world, but it can suddenly, when used by other spirits, into sudden storm.

Is your link strong? (you know with who)

Friendship, companionship, Family, intamacy (not sex, people confuse sex with that word too much. He talks about your other half, your mate) is the biggest part of your strength. This was shown through interference. Take a deep look inside yourself and you will find many answers, but never forget that your ties also define you.

One day there is a strong chance you will get to talk to me personally, I look forward to it.
(end of Micheal message)

I guess he was thinking you have a high chance of success in that area.


1. There is no way that SD could know something about me having a mate, not only this, but if either, 1. SD was faking this, he would have probably said lover, not mate, he also couldn't have know about my mate through my profile either, as I am only 18 and it would be hard to judge through the internet about this without exposing himself.  2. Even if the entity being meditated was just some low level neg looking for its next meal, it probably wouldn't have come up with an anwser like this.

When I really looked at this and thought over it like Michele had said to, I started to really notice these qualities even more, though I don't fight, myself, I am intriqued by fighting.  I wan't to fight one day, the reason for this is to protect the ones that I love, the parts of my strength in life.  

The affalation with water is also dead on, I love to swim, thinking of water as a calming thing, but when needed can also be a powerful tool.

Notice also, that I didn't ever give a description of the dream, all I said was that I thought it was because of a neg, in the dream there was always fighting, but it could have been a multiude of things and SD just so happens to pick fighting.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mactombs

Here's an excerpt from John Michael Greer's book Monsters on the topic of angels:

quote:

---

It's worth remembering that not everything that calls itself an angel deserves the title. Fays, spirits, intelligences, and demonic entities, among others, are perfectly capable of putting on a vaguely angelic form and name if it suits their purposes. There are plenty of entities that will play such games.

This sort of charade is particularly common in the case of "channeled entities" who reveal themselves solely by way of a human channeler or medium. None of the traditional accounts of the angelic realm suggest that angels communicate in this way.

---

I also found it a bit eerie that the brief depiction of the archangel Michael goes: "guardian of the sun and slayer of the dragon".

---

that is The Dragon That is also a refference made by a man who does not understand dragons. Micheal refers to me as a dragon soul. I have come in contact with many spirits and beings in my travels, and the only refference to dragons that is bad is the refference to the great black dragon, Samuel The Arch Demon.

Micheal's love is very overpowering, it's not like the love a faker would throw at you, they can't copy the power of the love, or the intensity of it, they can only copy the feel of love itself[;)] That is why it says vaguely angelic form.

I think it has more to do with intreperatations. I honestally dont think it matters what he's is in contact with, if anything at all.

Either way, SDs words are very introspective, and provide alot of good piecring detail to the questions asked during these mediations.

Even if he is talking to his higher self, it doesnt really matter, he is doing good <or atleast attempting to>. For that I dont see where the issue lies.

For us gifted folk, names really shoudnt mean anything. It is the concepts and thought provided that means most.

Chipping away at people for the sake of seeing them crack is cruel. In that reguard I can see where the concept of "original sin" comes from.

I dont understand why people can just silently disagree. He never asked for your input and only gave out info when people asked for it.

It would be one thing if he paraded his gifts around, but he dosnt. To him he feels like he needs to share his experiences, which makes him feel whole.

Helping people in a way that may have prevented his problems, or helped him when he needed it.

Beating people up like that makes me furious. I can remember seeing this happen to other people. This sense of vengence and sorrow was what led me to the path to the light, and also what kept me in the dark.

There was once a point where things like this made me feel that non-psykes were sub-human...... A dangerous trait for someone like me.

We must all try to understand one another. Nay I know you must have you reasons, but plz dont be cloak and dagger about it. Say it up front.

If you think he's starting a cult, thats fine. But attack the concept not the person. You currentaly are applying the same philosophy that the Nazis did against the jews.

Blaming xxxx wont solve the problem at hand. Fix the problem and dont blame someone else.

If you honestally think its a cult, make people aware of it. Dont attack him and call him a liar. Even you know that denail and doubt are the #1 killers of psionic ability.

hi there Sentential !

I agree with you on some points, and disagree on others.... I hope that you don't get offended when I disagree with you ! [:)]

quote:

---

Chipping away at people for the sake of seeing them crack is cruel. In that reguard I can see where the concept of "original sin" comes from.

---

Yes, "chipping away" at people to see them crack is very cruel...yet that is exactly what Nay has been subjected to by many members, simply because she went against the status quo and dared to dispute the validity of something !!

quote:

---

I dont understand why people can just silently disagree. He never asked for your input and only gave out info when people asked for it.

---

Well, when you make a post on a public forum such as the astralpulse, you inevitably invite comments. Some people will agree with you, & others will disagree, as per the nature of debate. You have to take this kind of thing on the chin ! Its no use belittling someone who questions the validity of your post.

Heres an example... Lets say Mactombs started a new topic saying that he had developed super powers - he can fly like superman, & levitate heavy objects. Don't you think it would be very odd if nobody questioned him ?! If everyone disagreed silently, we'd have no debate !

quote:

---

Beating people up like that makes me furious. I can remember seeing this happen to other people.

---

Sentential, I sincerely ask you to take a look at the other side of the coin... who is really the victim here ?!!

Anyway, that's my 2pence worth on the subject. I hope that people can continue to agree & disagree here, remembering that we should always show respect for each other whilst doing so !

kind regards,
Mark

ps - I trust that mactombs hasn't already developed these "superpowers"....If so, that would blow my example out the water !

Clandestino, there were other people questioning Spectral and Michael besides Nay, just that they did in in a very different manner.

Anyway, I also do not agree with everything Michael has said.  I do think that Spectral is indeed mediating him, however I think that there may be other factors interfering.  Michael himself admitted that there could be negative entities interrupting the flow of information to Spectral.  Furthermore, since Spectral has to recieve the information through visions and then interpret it into the physical plane, there is much room for error.  The knowledge we bring back through the astral plane, whether through projections or dreams, has to be interpreted  and filtered to an extent in order to translate it into our physical existence.  Because of this, I'm quite certain that some of the answers were at least partly incorrect, and IMO, the answers for the face on Mars and Lemuria/Mu were most likely flat out wrong.

Ultimately, it will be far more beneficial to project into the astral and possibly meet with Michael yourself.  Or, you could do the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram and contemplate the Archangels afterwards.  I have been doing this lately, and I can feel a definte connection with them.  Actually, there was a pretty good thread about this on the occult forums.

http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=4061

quote:

---

ps - I trust that mactombs hasn't already developed these "superpowers"....If so, that would blow my example out the water !

---

Developed? Oh no, I've always had those. [:)]

quote:

---

that is The Dragon That is also a refference made by a man who does not understand dragons. Micheal refers to me as a dragon soul. I have come in contact with many spirits and beings in my travels, and the only refference to dragons that is bad is the refference to the great black dragon, Samuel The Arch Demon.

---

If you mean Greer is a man who does not understand dragons, I beg to differ. From what I have read of his material, he is a very clear-thinker and one of the few "New Age" authors I feel trustworthy. You may, however, be correct about what the "dragon" actually refers to in this context, which isn't explained.

quote:

---

Micheal's love is very overpowering, it's not like the love a faker would throw at you, they can't copy the power of the love, or the intensity of it, they can only copy the feel of love itself That is why it says vaguely angelic form.

---

Certainly this is more telltale. In Greer's book it says that beings that inpersonate are more discernable by the atmosphere or feelings they invoke, which is usually confusion and excitement. Also, I think it's important to note that you meditate rather than let the being "take over".

Anyway, as always, I like asking about other explanations for things. Knowledge about something is no good if you look at it with tunnel vision...

...There is, however, no alternate explanation for my superpowers. Do not question my flying or levitation of heavy objects!

Kane,

The Celestine Prophecy author is the son of the owner of a bookstore in Houston,TX called Aquarian Bookshelf.  The best place in Houston to go for new age books if you ever go there.

I read his books and liked them.  He is teaching life principles from his viewpoint.  And being raised in such a free-thinking atmosphere, I can see why his books did so well.  To me it was kindof like the Lynn Andrews books.  Storytelling at a good level.  But, again, that's what stories are for, to teach us things.[:)]

quote:

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My contacts are very dirty today, I can't seem to find where you explain why you hate it here, but continue to stay..please link me..

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I do not recall saying I hate the site itself. I believe that this thought came around from how you view me, as a 22 year old who is sharing experiences you have not tried yet and believe you cannot do. (And quite frankly I think you can, you just haven't tried it out, or if you have tried it you only tried it once and thought I was quite simply lying. I could be wrong, but from what I have seen of most people who have been projecting for fifteen years (at least I think that is how long you said you have been projecting) they have all the skill necessary.)

These things that I do are, after a certian point of what most people would call "mastery," (I actually hate that word in describing these things, but it's the only one I could think at the moment) or astral projection are quite simple, they simply seem impossible because the way you think influinces the astral, If your attitude is "I can't do this," then quite simply you have made it that much harder on yourself (please note that I did not say impossible[;)])

This is exactly the attitude I have seen concerning fictional worlds. "I cannot do this" simply makes it that much harder for yourself to do these things. If you fail once, that does not mean it's impossible for you to do, it simply means you have not broken past the mental barriers that are restricting you from getting to your goal. Again, I am speaking in refference to someone who has been projecting for 15 years. This will not apply to everyone who can project. It is unwise to project and think "I can go to another world now" when you haven't marked reaching the mental plane as an accomplishment.

Basically what I am saying in a nutshell is keep practicing and you will accomplish it.

quote:

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I honestly think its more a matter of sincerity, heartfelt open-mindedness, belief and a willingness to believe, than it is of skill or ability or natural talent. But I do not extend this thought to include the imaginations and fantasies of a vaporous mind.

Robert Bruce, excerp from article, Lauràelle, The Ceremony & The Sword
(Another lost chapter from the original Astral Dynamics manuscript]

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This is exactly the attitude I have seen concerning fictional worlds. "I cannot do this" simply makes it that much harder for yourself to do these things. If you fail once, that does not mean it's impossible for you to do, it simply means you have not broken past the mental barriers that are restricting you from getting to your goal. /quote]

Thanx....I always need to be reminded that it is me (and not others) that limit myself.  But, at the same time, I DO believe that some have a more affinity for it than others...everyone has something they excel at.  And I think that is what the whole idea of having forums (of any kind) is all about -- people pooling their knowledge and finding their own ideas in relation to things they see and hear....and then off they go on their merry way til the next 'nexus' appears in no-matter-what-form (a person, internet, a book, an overheard comment in a crowd).  

Synchronicity Happens!

Guys from now on I am only doing this privately. I apoligize if this is an inconvenience.

I've been reading the forums with great interest and I wanted to add a few of my own thoughts and opinions. It took me a long time to get through all the material and several hours of reading!

One thing I think some people assume is that wrong and inaccurate are the same thing. I mean wrong in a moral sense. I think most people could agree (maybe?) that people are on different paths to the same end. One person's disinformation might be another's meaningful insights. We are all probably wrong about something we believe strongly. Does that make our experiences with that reality any less valid than a "correct" reality? We seek our answers and find them in different ways.

I don't see why Spectral Dragon posting his mediations in an open forum would be a problem. People can read, think, and judge for themself. They can discard or accept at will. As far as cult-like behavior... I haven't really seen any myself or maybe I'm just missing that. I was surprised when I came across that idea... I have skimmed some, but I did read every page. He isn't asking for money or dictating how people should live. He is simply posting the answers he mediates. He isn't even demanding you believe his mediations as absolute truth.

This forum was made for the purpose of "Communications", right? He is posting the communications he receives.

Whenever you challenge the foundations of someone's beliefs and worldview there will be resistance. Sometimes you slightly alter your beliefs or change them entirely. It isn't comfortable to think of yourself as being "wrong". The Ego does not want to be wrong. You want to be admired as being knowledgeable or spiritually elevated and aware. Some people will think this is all s**t and some people will be too open and easily swayed in their beliefs. A good sense of balance is necessary. Don't be too rigid and closed to new ideas, but don't blindly accept anything either.

That's just what's been going through my mind as I read. I think you are doing a good job Spectral Dragon given the environment of an open forum. I look forward to more of your posts. :)

This link from the occult forums has several downloads which can be viewed on adobe, several of which are rituals which allow one to meditate with the archangels.

http://www.occultforums.com/showpost.php?p=41534&postcount=3

Please note that some of the tools and aspects of this ritual (such as having an alter, a robe, etc.) aren't absolutely necessary, though they do help.  Basically, you need to get the same essence down, as the practice of magic is largely internal, and the better you get the easier it will be able to connect with entities.

You people are seriously deluded.
the archangel micheal is a viscious psychopath. Make no mistake, spectral dragon WAS in contact with micheal, and he WAS being drained by micheal. PLEASE stay away from Angels, venturing into the occult and chanelling angels constantly, your energy is just food for them. He was not in contact with a Demon, as Demons is on the other end of the spectrum - the freinds of humanity, the true and original gods, not this young arrogant jehova who's ego is so swollen he claims he is omnipotent and omniscient. Alot of angels would not drain you from a "great psychic presence" because they are weak and pestilent (a Demon on the other hand, could accidently kill you from just appearing to you). Perhaps a higher ranking angel would, however.

Dude, you need to not take those satanist fantasy books literally. [xx(]

quote:

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Originally posted by aryanknight666

You people are seriously deluded.
the archangel micheal is a viscious psychopath. Make no mistake, spectral dragon WAS in contact with micheal, and he WAS being drained by micheal. PLEASE stay away from Angels, venturing into the occult and chanelling angels constantly, your energy is just food for them. He was not in contact with a Demon, as Demons is on the other end of the spectrum - the freinds of humanity, the true and original gods, not this young arrogant jehova who's ego is so swollen he claims he is omnipotent and omniscient. Alot of angels would not drain you from a "great psychic presence" because they are weak and pestilent (a Demon on the other hand, could accidently kill you from just appearing to you). Perhaps a higher ranking angel would, however.

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Err...who is the deluded one here?

I needn't have bothered in the first place. Well, its not my problem if you want to be Angel food,

I believe SD is confusing you. The angel itself isnt draining, but rather enovoking it. As you can imagine, you gotta make yourself a pretty big target, psionically, to be able to be "seen" by an archangel. Maintaing that level of energy is what is draining.

Now as for the "Satan is our liberator" theme, I am afraid you are sadly mistaken. No im not gonna start some Xtian rhedoric. I speak from the experiences of myself and a freind of mine.

Demons are not your friend. I cannot stress this enough. Ive been around alot of demons and my friend is a former hardlined satanist.

Former you ask? After a long battle with his "guide" SD and I finally broke the connection and allwed him to see how it was tearing his life apart. How it alienated him from the ones he loved.

I had a similar experience, although it was from a past life. I had no recollection of what I did back then, but my refusal to re-join them started a wave of violence so horrid words cannot describe.

My parents said as a child I would scream in the middle of the night as tho I was fearing for my life. As I got older it only kept getting worse. Ive been scared, choked, things PKed at me, hell I even been possessed.

Despite all this I broke my connection and things have changed for the better. I finally feel happy and have something to look foreward to. The negs still try to haunt me, but I am strong enough to destroy them.

As SD and others will tell you about myself, I am the proof of demons / neg's brutality. My advice is to stay the hell away from them, before they make an attachment with you

- Sen

quote:

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Originally posted by aryanknight666

I needn't have bothered in the first place. Well, its not my problem if you want to be Angel food,

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You would think that the whole of humankind's "Angel" and "demon" definitions would tune you in, but let me explain something to you mr. Know-it-all.

Demon: a TRICKY being who creates fear and chaos for it's own benifit. In other words bub, you are the one being fooled.

Angel: a being of unbound love, love that cannot be typically copied by another being. In other words, you will know an angel when you see one, which you obviously haven't.

Sorry to be harsh but somebody had to break it to you. I have been in practice for years, I know what I am doing.

If you want to read more about satanism and he ministry which I belong to please visit www.joyofsatan.com

quote:

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Originally posted by aryanknight666

If you want to read more about satanism and he ministry which I belong to please visit www.joyofsatan.com

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lol...joyofsatan...

[}:)][:D][}:)][:D][}:)][:D][}:)]

PS. take no offence but satan stuff tends to crack me up ;)

QUOTE FROM SITE:

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One's relationship with Satan/Lucifer is up to the individual, as Satanism values free thought and individuality.

Satan is the bringer of knowledge. The goal of Spiritual Satanism is to apply this knowledge. Spiritual Satanists do not just talk the talk about becoming a God; we work at it every day. Satan and his Demons guide us to use abilities we never even knew we had. We accomplish this through power meditation.

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I suggest you go with your own code of ethics. That took me literally 3 seconds to find. You, a practitioner, apparently didn't even know about this.

The being those people are actually worshipping is Samuel, an archdemon. Samuel in of himself is not evil. He is like acid to us though. Acid should not be touched, but it is not evil.

EDIT: This might sound harsh, but you need to try actually understanding what you are looking at instead of taking things literally. True enlightenment is understanding, not littering your mind with crappy dogma.

I think if you take a bit of time to read about on the site, you will see that we certainly do not consider ourselves to be worshippers of the "arch-demon sammael" who was by the way, not an Arch Angel but the leader of the seraphim. For run-down of our beliefs; we do not believe in a supreme, almighty, omnipresent God. We Believe in Satan, obviously, as a real being, which is what distinguishes us from modern or LaVeyan Satanists who are for the most part atheists. We do not believe in Heaven above, hell below. We are not the flip-side of Christianity. We believe Satan and the Demons for that matter, to exist physically, on another planet, which we mostly refer to as hell or Duat. We do not believe "Heaven" to be a metaphysical realm, either. We believe it to be physical domain, another planet, just as hell is. We do not usually refer to it as heaven, we usually refer to it as Nibiru, which is the 12th planet of the solar system, which only passes through orbit once every thousand years, if my memory serves me correctly. It has Gold in its atmosphere which keeps it so warm as it is so far away from the Sun. This initially caused the inhabitants of Nibiru to travel to earth in order to mine gold from Africa. The first nephalim or anunaki to reach earth was Enki, which is Satan. The nephalim/Annunaki who followed were intitially used as miners, but then Enki developed a more efficient worker by mixing annunaki DNA with that of a homo-erectus, forming a homo-sapein. The nephilim and homo-sapiens formed a close bond, eventually the mines were no longer needed, the nephalim were worshipped by the homo-sapiens in ancient civilisations, namedly sumeria/bablyon/akkadin and later on Egypt. The Annunaki gave homo-sapiens the substance to become as Gods. The enemy Gods later flooded the earth, however Enki, in disguise, managed to tell Zusudria what to do in order to keep his family alive. There was huge debate over destroying the human race, the Nephilim who had been living on earth were close to homo-sapiens and wanted them to become as Gods, they did not want to kill them at all, however other Nephilim just wanted to destroy them because the job was done. All of civilisation comes from the inspiration of the Nephilim. Humans obviously survived the flood and civilisation flourished, and there were Nephilim on the earth after the flood. The Nephilim who stood up for humanity were outnumbered and cast out of Nibiru by the enemy in a war. The Hebrews, who worshipped the enemy gods, came out of Africa, and eventually formed a mono-theistic religion which held that the young and arrogant Jehovah is omniscient, omnipresent, all-seeing, all-knowing almighty God, which is a downright lie. Christianity obviously developed much further down the line, and much of the libraries, information and monument to the old gods were sacked, pillaged and burnt in an effort to destroy all ties with them. They were degraded as "devils and demons".  There are literally billions of beings that make up the enemy; Gods, "angels", also reptilians and Grays are allied.
A subject of criticism with the Joy of Satan has been the connection with Zechariah Sitchin, who is notorisuly criticised as being a terrible scholar. Zechariah Sitchin is not 100% correct and we do not claim he is, there are a lot of problems with his work. The above mentioned stuff about the flood, the mining, nibiru etc is taken from Sumerian mythology, and Sitchin has an extra-terrestrial god theory surrounding this. However, we list Sitchin as reference material and recommended reading, high priestess Maxine, the founder of JOS ministries, did not read Sitchin's work and think "hey, I am going to make a religion out of this". The tenants of the JOS evolved out of Maxine's contact and interaction with Satan and the Demons, which is where all the information primarily comes from, Sitchin just comes reasonably close to the truth. As you quoted spectral dragon, Satan respects free choice and individuality, he does not force himself on anybody (even though I may seem a little pushy and forthright at times, obviously I am not Satan). We come to Satan out of free choice, and initially because we can relate to his cause and feel love for Satan and a true connection with him. We do not come to him with out indoctrination or fear. As Satanists we work hard in developing ourselves spiritually and developing the power of the mind. We do summon Demons and our method of Demonic summoning is detailed on the sight. We use the Goetia as a list of the Demons or the Gods, but we do not use the spiritually abusive methods of the lesser/greater key of Solomon with nine-foot protective circles and using enemy god names. Treat demons with respect and reverence, particularly in the early days. Our Goetia is slightly different to the lesser/greater key of Solomon. Maxine and other hp's have worked hard at perfecting it, communicating personally and directly with the demons to find out the correct information and have successfully freed ALL of the Demons from the curses of the Enemy gods, and now that they are liberated it is advised that if you do use the spiritually abusive methods of the lesser/greater key of Solomon, there is effectively nothing stopping them from breaking down the barrier and killing you. They are extremely powerful and could accidentally kill you from must appearing to you. A physical, full body apparition would, for a normal person, throw you back to a wall, a Demon could burn a person's skin back to their bone with their bioelectricity. The Gods are NOT just a more intelligent/advanced extraterrestrials, as they are extremely adept in the powers of the mind and can easily influence the environment around them. They can bend the universe at their will, and can leave their body any time to travel somewhere else in the universe. To manifest themselves physically they must use energies which is why you need to be powerful for a full-bodied apparition. Many of us have had wonderful experiences with the Gods. When we are very new we usually use a pendulum or Ouija board however obviously these are not the best methods of communicating. At this stage we usually keep practising with hit and miss methods etc in order to be able to get good readings. Eventually we can just suspend the pendulum from something and it will move or we can take the hands of the planchette with a Ouija board and it can move by itself, but when we become experienced we usually just communicate with demons telepathically or just Summon them. Meditation and awakenings, and hatha, aura work, charka and aura empowerment are all key elements in advancing ourselves. A lot of us do one our of meditations a day at the least. Spiritual warfare is very real and we are a part of this, being dedicated to Satan's cause is not a walk through Disney land. We do not have any mediators, we advise personal communication with father and the demons, which is the first priority relying on outside information. We have guardian demons (which is not the flip-side of a guardian Angel) that work with us and many of us have been to "hell" by the astral, as well as many other places in the universe, even enemy domains. Many of us have also seen the past and even the (probable) future by the astral. Demons can induce wonderful astral experiences and adventures.
We have all been under attack from the enemy, this is not always subtle. Many high priests and priestesses have been attacked physically by Angels and other undesirables, they have also seen the enemy bribe, threaten and even down-right plea to them in an effort to stop their workings and join them, this was happening a lot around the time they were doing energy workings and freeing the Demons.
Demons are NOT negatives and they are not evil. They are extremely powerful and intelligent and very knowledgeable in variety of areas, most of them specialise in particular areas. They are teachers of ethics, honour and truth are very important to them. Honour, sincerity and ethics are also very important to Satan. They have not caused chaos, dread, terror, for any of us, they have never had motives to screw us over or harm us. As you can probably understand, I find it hard to believe Satan is like acid to touch as I and many of have found comfort and peace and enlightenment with him and felt his love.

quote:

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Originally posted by aryanknight666

I think if you take a bit of time to read about on the site, you will see that we certainly do not consider ourselves to be worshippers of the "arch-demon sammael" who was by the way, not an Arch Angel but the leader of the seraphim.

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Dogmatic bullsh*&, PROVE IT. I astral project and talk to beings, do you? I don't need a cult religion to tell me what is right and what is wrong. We have brains, I chose to use mine.

BTW: I have taken the time to read a bit on the site. It's full of dogma and more of the same, I see no proof whatsoever for the claims on that site.

I'm sorry – you want me to prove that we are do not consider ourselves worshippers of the "arch-demon sammael"? We don't consider ourselves to be worshippers of Sammael the ex-leader of the seraphim either, but considering you're throwing around kabbalistic names like "sammael" that I should probably tell you that the kabbalistic figure sammael was meant to be the leader of the seraphim.
"you cannot prove anything on those pages"
How does one prove what we say we do on those pages? Can you prove that you "astral project and talk to beings"? Not anymore then I could.
Anyway what do you classify as a "cult" which you've so boldly described the JOS ministries as and how does the JOS fit that criteria?

quote:

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Originally posted by aryanknight666

I'm sorry – you want me to prove that we are do not consider ourselves worshippers of the "arch-demon sammael"? We don't consider ourselves to be worshippers of Sammael the ex-leader of the seraphim either, but considering you're throwing around kabbalistic names like "sammael" that I should probably tell you that the kabbalistic figure sammael was meant to be the leader of the seraphim.
"you cannot prove anything on those pages"
How does one prove what we say we do on those pages? Can you prove that you "astral project and talk to beings"? Not anymore then I could.
Anyway what do you classify as a "cult" which you've so boldly described the JOS ministries as and how does the JOS fit that criteria?

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I've proved my worth to individuals before. Sam, Sentential, Cube, ect are witness to that.

This argument is going nowhere.

My friend, Ive been drug through the muck. Ive seen where it grows. However nice and peachy they paint it out to be, do not belive them.

I follow no religion, only what I think is right. My view on the concept of Lucifer and those like him, I stand by it.

I could give a rat's a** about names or that stuff. I go by concepts. Lucifer is a betrayer, a liar, and a murderer. That very concept alone makes me dispise him.

I know your feelings on this matter, but please try to look inside yourself. Ive been through some horrible experiences, so has my friend. Do not be like us, dont play with fire. You *will* get burned.

I HAVE looked inside myself – it was looking inside myself which caused me to come to Satan in the first place. What causes you to believe Lucifer is a liar, a murderer and a betrayer in the first place?
If you think he is so terrible why not look at Jehovah – it is he who demands blood sacrifice. Human and animal sacrifice, cannibalism, vampirism, mass murder. Look at all he has murdered, in the deluge, with his wretched plagues. But can you find a single instance in your trusty buybull where Satan murders anybody? Or actually lies?

I feel that you are overly focused on folk tales and symbols which were eventually misinterpreted by the masses.  Satan was more so a symbol of man's temptation and dark side than anything.  Yahweh was an incorrect, amalgated version created by combining the term Yud-Heh-Vahd-heh (a term refering to the four elements of the divine, the tetra-polar aspect of the universe) with term Adonai (lord).  As often happens, the common people conceptualized all of this as anthromorphic gods, while the few priests who were initiated into the secret mysteries knew better.

Lucifer, or Samael, is not exactly the same thing as Satan.  Archdemons are not human, and human evil should not be applied to their actions.

Mythological beings and the folktales which grow up around them can be interesting, but trying to create some ill-informed ministery around it will never help anyone.  You come off as being a Christian, except that your Gods have been switched around.  Look closely at your posts and you will see what I mean.

I agree with LOTB. I am not myself Xtaian and choose not to be. But frankly what I would consider demons are scary people. I sense a great deal of hatred within you. Despite how oyu feel, negs only view you as lunch.

Keep that in mind.

"I sense a great deal of hate within you"

You're kidding yourself. Oh, but of course I must have a great deal of hatred in me, I am a Satanist [V]

"agree with LOTB. I am not myself Xtaian and choose not to be. But frankly what I would consider demons are scary people. I sense a great deal of hatred within you. Despite how oyu feel, negs only view you as lunch."

The word demon is the classic latin form of the modern latin word Daemon, which is a translation of the word daimon, which is a greek word, refering to an intelligent spirit not as powerful as a god but more powerful then men. In the original jewish texts, the gods worshipped by ancient civilisations were "lords", "idols", or "hairy men". They were said to be fallen angels, they were more powerful then the men who worshipped them but not as powerful as "God". Thus, it was translated as Daimon. The English editions also translated it as devils or fiends. Such "demons" were the gods worshipped by the philistines, Babylonians etc, so gods like baal, ishtar/innana, etc.
If you do not consider yourself to be a Christian, why do you believe in the concept of these so-called evil "demons" and "lucifer"? "Demons" were also meant to be the spirits at work in spirit mediumship, fortune telling, witchcraft, and all forms of spirituality. They were meant to be seductive so they weren't meant to terrorise people or appear to be negative. If you believe so called "Demons" and "lucifer" to be evil beings, then you believe in the Christian concept of demons and lucifer, which means you believe them to be deceptive spirits who are behind all forms of spirituality, magick, paganism and the occult, which means you would abstain from these practices. Someone put it well in the topic "do not invoke lucifer" (or it might have been "a word for the so-called Christians"), Jehova condemns magick because he wants you to put all your energy into praying to him. He does not want you to become powerful or use psychic energy because he and the angels want it ALL to themselves. Killing and death keep release a lot of energy which is what the three main RHP religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) cause a lot of. These provide enough souls to feed on after these people die, and it also is leading to the destruction of humanity and is keeping everyone fighting. Occultists who work with angelic beings and Jehova are there to be fed off on the spot.
All of these white lighters, new agers, wiccans, and "high magick" practitioners, are not allowed to practice black magick. One of the most important developments in liberation during medi-evil times was the long bow. It meant a group of knights could not just walk into a town of peasants and rape, pillage and steal whatever they want and torch the whole place. Get it?
Look at my last post on the previous page and you will see what I am talking about when I use the word "Demon", I'm not talking about "negs". A neg can be anything, a base level spirit that's being negative towards someone, a negative thought-form, etc.

"Yahweh was an incorrect, amalgated version created by combining the term Yud-Heh-Vahd-heh (a term refering to the four elements of the divine, the tetra-polar aspect of the universe) with term Adonai (lord). As often happens, the common people conceptualized all of this as anthromorphic gods, while the few priests who were initiated into the secret mysteries knew better."
The god "yaweh/jehova's" name was inserted, replacing the names of many other Gods. "Jehova" is fictitious. The name "Jehova" was stolen from the Roman God "Jove." "The pious Dr. Parkhurst. . . proves, from the authority of Diodorus Siculus, Varro, St. Augustine, etc., that the Iao, Jehova, or ieue, or ie of the Jews was the Jove of the Latins and Etruscans..." "YHWH/IEUE was additionally the Egyptian Sun God Ra: Ra was the father in heaven, who has the title of 'Huhi' the eternal, from which the Hebrews derived the name 'Ihuh.'" "Jewish mystical tradition viewed the original Jehova as an androgyne, his/her name compounded as Jah (jod) and the pre-hebraic name of Eve, Havah, or Hawah, rendered he-vau-he in Hebrew letters. The four letters together made the sacred tetragrammaton, YHWH, the secret name of God..."

This excerpt was taken from Encyclopedia Britannica, 1973 edition, Volume 15, entry "MOLOCH." Page 674:
"The diety to whom child sacrifice was offered was Yaweh, the chief; and for normative Hebrew religion, the only--god of the nation, honored in this connection as "the king." So repulsive was this abnormal practice, largely confined to the apostatizing reigns of Ahaz (II Kings xvi, 3) and Manasseh (II Kings xxi, 6), that the later Hebrews transformed the divine title associated with it into the artificial name Moloch, as though the sacrifices had indeed been offered to a foreign god."

"Satan was more so a symbol of man's temptation and dark side than anything."

Satan is meant to be a hebrew word meaning adversary. It was used to describe many adversaries to the Jews and certain biblical figures. "Lucifer" was the name of a lesser roman god, it was applied to Sammael, supposedly a fallen angel from heaven. He was given the name satan when he became the "dark lord" or whatever you call it. A lot of people argue that there is no one diabolical word called satan, it simply means adversary, it's a typo. This obviously isn't the case considering there are several instances where the word satan is used to describe an adversary in the Hebrew texts, which have been translated, but the being called satan has stayed the same. This is because it's given name was satan, regardless of what the word means. It is also meant to be a real being, not a representation, as you will see if you read what's said about satan the being, particulary in the new testament. He is the ruler of the spiritual world, the "dark lord" behind magick, witchcraft, spirit mediumship, everything to do with the occult.

Deuteronomy 12:27
And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.
Exodus 22:29 "Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me."
Ezekiel 20:25-26 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good and judgments whereby they should not live; "
20:26 "And I polluted them in their own gifts in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord."
II Samuel 21 is another example of blood sacrifice to appease Jehova when the Israelites faced famine.
21:6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib'e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.
21:9 And he delivered them into the hands of the Gib'e-on-ites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.
21:10 And Riz'pah the daughter of A-i'ah took sackcloth, and spread it for her upon the rock, from the beginning of harvest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest on them by day, nor the beasts of the field by night.
When seven men are murdered in cold blood in order to appease Jehova in hopes that he will end a famine, it can only be called human blood sacrifice.

Numbers 31:25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
31:26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
31:27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
31:30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
31:31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
31:32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
31:33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
31:36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
31:37 And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
31:38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.
31:39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.
31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.
This excerp was taken from "The Handbook of Jewish Knowledge" by Nathan Ausubel ©1964; pages 302-303
"Jephthah, one of the ruler judges following the conquest of Canaan, had sacrificed his only daughter to the God of Israel in a celebration of a military victory against the Ammonites; Samuel "the seer" had hacked in a sacrificial manner the body of Agag before God; David, the sensitive poet king had handed the seven sons of Saul to the Gibeonites "to hang them up unto God."
An example of this can be seen below, how the verse was changed in Judges 11:39.
In the others, the human has been replaced with a "lamb."
Judges 11:34
And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
11:35
And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
11:36
And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
11:37
And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
11:38
And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
11:39
And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
11:40
That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

CANNIBALISM:
Deuteronomy 28:53
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
28:54
So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
28:55
So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
28:56
The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
28:57
And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
28:58
If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE RITUAL SLAUGHTER OF ANIMALS AS WELL:

Exodus 20:24
An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
Exodus 24:4
And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
24:5
And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
24:6
And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
More instructions from jehova for blood sacrifice:
Exodus 23:18
Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the fat of my sacrifice remain until the morning.
Exodus 29:10 And thou shalt cause a bullock to be brought before the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron and his sons shall put their hands upon the head of the bullock.
29:11
And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
29:12
And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar.
29:13
And thou shalt take all the fat that covereth the inwards, and the caul that is above the liver, and the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, and burn them upon the altar.
29:14
But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin offering.
29:15
Thou shalt also take one ram; and Aaron and his sons shall put their hands upon the head of the ram.
29:16
And thou shalt slay the ram, and thou shalt take his blood, and sprinkle it round about upon the altar.
29:17
And thou shalt cut the ram in pieces, and wash the inwards of him, and his legs, and put them unto his pieces, and unto his head.
29:18
And thou shalt burn the whole ram upon the altar: it is a burnt offering unto the LORD: it is a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
29:19
And thou shalt take the other ram; and Aaron and his sons shall put their hands upon the head of the ram.
29:20
Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
29:21
And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.
29:22
Also thou shalt take of the ram the fat and the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards, and the caul above the liver, and the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, and the right shoulder; for it is a ram of consecration:
29:23
And one loaf of bread, and one cake of oiled bread, and one wafer out of the basket of the unleavened bread that is before the LORD:
29:24
And thou shalt put all in the hands of Aaron, and in the hands of his sons; and shalt wave them for a wave offering before the LORD.
29:25
And thou shalt receive them of their hands, and burn them upon the altar for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour before the LORD: it is an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
29:26
And thou shalt take the breast of the ram of Aaron's consecration, and wave it for a wave offering before the LORD: and it shall be thy part.
29:27
And thou shalt sanctify the breast of the wave offering, and the shoulder of the heave offering, which is waved, and which is heaved up, of the ram of the consecration, even of that which is for Aaron, and of that which is for his sons:
29:28
And it shall be Aaron's and his sons' by a statute for ever from the children of Israel: for it is an heave offering: and it shall be an heave offering from the children of Israel of the sacrifice of their peace offerings, even their heave offering unto the LORD.
29:29
And the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons' after him, to be anointed therein, and to be consecrated in them.
29:30
And that son that is priest in his stead shall put them on seven days, when he cometh into the tabernacle of the congregation to minister in the holy place.
29:31
And thou shalt take the ram of the consecration, and seethe his flesh in the holy place.
Leviticus Chapter 1
1:1
And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
1:2
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
1:3
If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
1:4
And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.
1:5
And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
1:6
And he shall flay the burnt offering, and cut it into his pieces.
1:7
And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar, and lay the wood in order upon the fire:
1:8
And the priests, Aaron's sons, shall lay the parts, the head, and the fat, in order upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
1:9
But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of "a sweet savour unto the LORD".
1:10
And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.
1:11
And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar.
1:12
And he shall cut it into his pieces, with his head and his fat: and the priest shall lay them in order on the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar:
1:13
But he shall wash the inwards and the legs with water: and the priest shall bring it all, and burn it upon the altar: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
1:14
And if the burnt sacrifice for his offering to the LORD be of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves, or of young pigeons.
1:15
And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and wring off his head, and burn it on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be wrung out at the side of the altar:
1:16
And he shall pluck away his crop with his feathers, and cast it beside the altar on the east part, by the place of the ashes:
1:17
And he shall cleave it with the wings thereof, but shall not divide it asunder: and the priest shall burn it upon the altar, upon the wood that is upon the fire: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Leviticus Chapter 7
7:1
Likewise this is the law of the trespass offering: it is most holy.
7:2
In the place where they kill the burnt offering shall they kill the trespass offering: and the blood thereof shall he sprinkle round about upon the altar.
7:3
And he shall offer of it all the fat thereof; the rump, and the fat that covereth the inwards,
7:4
And the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul that is above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away:
7:5
And the priest shall burn them upon the altar for an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a trespass offering.
Leviticus 7:14
And of it he shall offer one out of the whole oblation for an heave offering unto the LORD, and it shall be the priest's that sprinkleth the blood of the peace offerings.
THE "LORD" NEEDS EVERY DROP OF THAT BLOOD FROM THE BLOOD SACRIFICE:
Leviticus 7:27
Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.
Here, more blood sacrifice is needed to remove the curse of leprosy jehova has inflicted:
Leviticus 14:34

When ye be come into the land of Canaan, which I give to you for a possession, and I put the plague of leprosy in a house of the land of your possession;
14:49
And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
14:50
And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
14:51
And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
14:52
And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
14:53
But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
14:54
This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,
14:55
And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
14:56
And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
14:57
To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.
Leviticus 8:14- 32
Leviticus 9:1- 24
Leviticus 14:1- 5
Leviticus 14:12-28
Leviticus 23:12-21
Numbers 19:1- 7
Joshua Chapter 10- Nothing but mass murder
Judges 1:1- 18 More bloodbaths and mass murder
Judges 3:27- 31

These verses are not misinterpretations of anything. They are of the old testament, which is written in Hebrew, the original Hebrew version of the old testament is still intact in the jewish torah. All of these verses are present.

Well said, though I don't think it really matters to anyone what you belevie as long as you don't try to force this on other people then they really couldn't care less, but when you try to cram it down there througts that this is right and they are wrong they are going to fight back, so a friendly disscusion is fine as long as you can view the points objectivly and not with force, which I have noticed with you also SD, though I am sure you are tired of people BSing you please, try to remain calm.

Beings called angels and devils, only exist in judeao/christianity

You can call them by whatever means you want. A name is somthing that gives defination.

And belive me when I say, that I know "demons" / "negs" or whatever quite well. On a level that I wish I never got to. Trust me when I say this. Those "things" are not nice at all.

I really wish I could convey my thoughts in a mannor in which you would not discredit it.

As everyone will tell you. I have been put through qute alot. I finally am begining to get to the bottom of things. I know I cannot change your thoughts, but I do want to atleast give the suggestion of it.

"Demons" are not your friend. They are something to be both feared and loathed. The amout of emotional damage they can cause cannot be summed up in words.

I would implore you to see more constructive thoughts. Following for blind hatred will bring you and others inimaginable pain.

And yes, you do have such hatred in your heart. I understand. Im not sure where it lies, because I have not spoken with you other than these posts. Whether it lies with trying to be unique, rebellion or just hate in general.

Either way, you will find only suffering in a demon's arms. Trust me... I found out the hard way. Even tho my pact was from a great number of life times ago, I still am paying the price for it. Only after a number of horribly bitter years and constand struggle with negs, have they begun to let me go. My new and real guide is helping to finish off the process.

Hopefully my bonds will be broken very soon indeed

Some might be interested to note here that "Angels" are not judeo/christian in origin. It's just that christianity & judeism seem to have 'cornered the market' on angels so to speak.

The word "angel" comes from the Greek  word "anglos", which, like the hebrew word "mala'ak", simply means "messenger". Christians have no more rights to ownership of angels than any other religion. They are higher order spirit beings and do not belong to any one religion. They work as messengers and guides for those who's hearts desire to evolve spiritually.

What amuses me is that it seems far more non-christian people work directly with angels than christians. Possibly because they don't have religious dogma getting in the way.

Regards,
James.

No, you are deluded, do not tell me what is in my heart. I am me, therefore I know myself more then someone on the other side of the world posting messages on an internet forum. How can you say I am following a path of blind hatred? You are relying off ignorance as your definition of Satanism and the left hand path. You can not tell me anything about different forms of Satanism and what it is about. People are not willing to listen or learn, as my last post on the previous page outlined our beliefs, which have been largely ignored. I left the link for the ministry, for someone who is interested and wants to read about it, for whatever purpose. However, all I got was bull*** about it, because none of you actually bothered to read it, and of course you do not have to but if you are going to drop sweeping comments about it, at least have the courtesy to KNOW what you are talking about. LOTB claimed that it is a ministry built around "mythology, folk tales and misconception".
"I don't need a cult like religion to tell me what is right or wrong" – I'm not even going to touch that one. What are your beliefs and ethics, morals based off? I don't think I need to elaborate. Anyway, the JOS does not tell anyone what to do, what to believe and what is right or wrong. It is not a cult – it is the official website of the joy of satan ministries, founded by high priestess Maxine dietrich, it is a source of information for those interested in the ministry, who want to learn more about it, or those who want to be Satanists or have felt drawn to Satan. http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/FREETHOUGHT.html this sermon speaks for itself.
Satan and the high ranking demons are far older then "jehova" and other such gods. Satan is roughly 500,000 years old. They have been worshipped by the earliest civilisations of man, look at the key of Solomon, it's a list of so-called "demons". They are all pagan gods of ancient civilisations, and no, they were never "3vil!!!1111" or "dark gods". They predate Christianity by thousands of years.
I already explained the origin of the word demon and why it has been applied to these original gods.
If you want to know about Angels, don't rely off new age authors or any of that, maybe you should go straight to the source, they are not meant to beings of boundless, unconditional love. They are biblical figures and if this was the case, they would not be agents of plague, famine, mass murder and war.
You see, you can't really equate "angels" with the "good gods" of paganism and demons with the "bad gods" of paganism because demons are a Christian concept, and demons are meant to be, pagan gods, meaning both "good gods" and "bad gods" would be demons.  Good and evil dualism exists in many religions, however the good and evil beings of these religions still have very little to do with the Judaeo-Christian Islamic concepts of angels and demons.
Yes sentinental, I've read of your experiences. Screaming in the middle of the night as a child and such, its really not that uncommon, this happened to me as a child as well, it's a phenomena called night mares that all children and adults alike experience. And Just because an astral entity makes you feel uneasy or disturbs you in someway doesn't mean its "the d3vil!!!!11111" or "omfg d3mons!!!1111". There are people in real life who can disturb you in some way or make you feel uneasy, that doesn't make them Judea Christian demons or "the devil". Your proposition that demons can only cause negativity and lead you nowhere contradicts the experiences of roughly 1000 people that I know of, and of course there are many more then that. If that was true then the JOS would probably never exist, and there would be no successful members in the ministry, the high priests and priestesses have successfully freed ALL of the gods of the goetia from the curses and bindings of the enemy.
With negative thought forms, psychic vampires, angry or upset spirits, however, it might be a different story, but that is not what we are dealing with here.
With those situations, its probably best to actually try and help the distressed individual instead of selfishly insulting, slandering and threatening them which will only make the situation worse.

If you're interested in the gods and goddesses which modern Goetic "demons" are based upon(as well as the entities which modern conceptions of archangels are based), thats fine, but in that case insisting on calling it Satanism is rather pointless.  If you dislike Christianity, why base the name for your beliefs on a name which originally stood for something entirelly different than what it does now?  IMO you are overly wrapped up in words.  A common definition of demons I have seen is that they are aspects of the human-group mind that have seperated and incarnated independantly.  They are indeed very malicious, and form what might be thought of as the dark side of our greater selves.  These are the entities which inflict much woe on mankind, and it does not make much difference whether you call them demons or tinkle winkle fairies, they are what they are, quite independant of human philosophies.

However, I have been able to establish a connection with the aspects of the archangels evoked in the LBRP, and they are indeed loving beings.  Basking in their energy is quite a joyful experience.

Once again I agree with LOB. As I had said before. I know what I saw, and I know what they represent. You are entitled to your opinion. Diversity is what keeps us from becoming fundamentalists.

Desipte what you say, there is a great deal of anger from you and your posts. I never acused you of being dillusion. I only warned, and asked to look within yourself for anwsers.

I have a friend who was a hard-line Satanist. He spoke of the things you have. After talking with him for several weeks he saw how it was destroying his life, and in turn abandoned it.

I myself am not Xtian, in fact I believe them to be the bane of our existence. Conventional religion in general is a horrible thing. Too often does greed and power dillute and destroy a once beautiful thing.

I think LOB will agree with what I say. The "archangles" as some like to call them, dispise how it was tainted. The reason why we have yet to see them is because we as a whole have become closed minded to the point in which they would rather not speak. In their eyes the ones that matter can freely speak with them whenever they choose to. However most of the thing that they would say can be found from our guides.

Much like my words <sadly> the "angel's" true word falls on deaf ears[:(] In time I hope, you will see that I speak the truth.

Now as for my "nightmares", I dont paint quite the picture I should. Ive had the "gift" all my life. I know perfectally well what I saw. I am not going to go into detail, but know that there are forces out there that scare even me to death.

It's not as simple as that, LOTB. For a start, those gods and goddesses predate Christianity by a far throw. They are physical beings, and in fact came to earth, from another planet. Not all of the Gods in the Goetia are Sumerian. Thoth, Azael, Ashteroth, horus, etc are not Sumerian. Some of the Sumerian deities however, were worshipped in later civilisations under different names. Enki led the first nephilim to Earth, a supreme diety of sumeria, he is a water god, but he is much more then that. He created humans, by mixing homo-erectus DNA with nephilim DNA. Sumerian mythology is actually very detailed, describing space craft, mines, the creation of humans, lots of things. Yes, the Enki originally created man as a slave worker, because before nephilim were mining all the god (I explained in another post why they needed this), but the Nephilim became very attached to humans, and made several advancements, eventually the goal was to make them fully as Gods. Other gods simply wanted to destroy the humans after the project was finished and wanted to keep them simple, they did not want them to advance. Enki exposed them as liars, giving the more knowledge, the ability to become as gods, advancing them further (fruit of knowledge in the garden of eden, the serpent). The earth was flooded, as you know, and Enki told zusudria how to survive, disguising this by talking to him with a reed screen between them. There isn't actually one being called Yahweh, there are many of them. These are, in truth, enemies of humanity. They initially wanted to wipe everyone out with the deluge, but a family survived, and this was after the "tree of knowledge" incident. Before the flood the nephilim took human women as wives, and had intercourse with them,  to advance humans them once more (the offspring). These were basically super males (really tall, really strong), but with powerful minds.
These got wiped out in the flood.
As you might of already guessed the biblical figure Satan is Enki. Satan is described as "the lord of this world", "the prince of the earth", Enki literally means "Lord of the earth". The reason why its called Satanism, LOTB, is because Enki IS "satan" the original gods are the "demons" and they are in spiritual warfare with Yahweh. As you know the Hebrews came out of Egypt, the enemy gods were originally desert tribal gods. The Egyptian God "Ptah" is "Enki". As you know thoth and horus were Egyptian gods. The Egyptian concept of "heaven" (obviously they didn't call it that) is Satan/Ptah/Enki's kingdom.

Just out of interest, which goetic demons are considered "arch-angels" by you new age people?

Once again, your replies are ridden with statements like "you people" and so forth. The negs are trying to create a sort of disconnect within you, to make you feel seperated, or above the rest of us.

My guide tells me that "they" are very well aware of human histroy, and choose names to present themselves in a mannor in which the population as whole will have somthing to identify themselves as.

Ive heard of the sumarian history and several other, and am quite facinated by it. However I dont see a cooleration between satan and them.

Once again, if anything, Satan would be Seth, not Ptah. Mentions of evil goat like figures <and yes I know why a goat> do pre-date humanity.

However, it you truly feel happy and you are helping other progress themselves to find better and more fruitful lives, so be it. If this is the case, the one you call "Satan" is not him. You are reveraing somone else.

Now as for the archangles, most typically go by what the bible uses. However everone who is in contact with them, make very clear that the bible is only half true, and that there are quite a few more.

So what exactly is the aim of these "negs"? If they were "negs" it would seem that they have done nothing to gain benefit at the expense of us, and I cannot see how it could be heading this way at all.
Why are you so determined Satan is evil anyway? What indicates he is evil in the buybull? He reveals Jehovah as a liar, who tells Adam and eve they will die if they eat from the tree of knowledge. He appears to Jesus and says that he will have a wonderful life if the Nazarene comes to him, he promises him this and shows him everything he will have. We now know why this happened. Satan was trying to negotiate with the Nazarene, Satan could see what the Nazarene was going to do with the world and was trying to prevent things from happening.
You claim Lucifer is a liar, a murderer, and a betrayer. But actually Jehovah is, evidently, all three, and those claims about Lucifer go unsubstantiated. What exactly leads you to believe these are "negs"?
I know that Seth is certainly not Satan. Both Seth and Satan look drastically different. I am not going to tell you what Satan looks like, but Seth has long black hair, Black wings and light, olive skin. Satan is drastically different to this. They are definitely tow distinct beings.
If these were "negs" that we were contacting I don't really see what's so negative about what they're doing. They are willing to help us with anything we need or anything that would help us on the left hand path. They have done wonders for us and they are very compassionate and caring. Yes, you are correct when you say that Satan and the Demons lead us to live more fruitful and happy lives. Of course he is Satan, if he was not Satan what on earth would be the point in all of this, hmm?
Pause and think for a second, what the hell have "angels" done for you lately? Have you ever experienced a physical apparition or interaction with an "Angel"? Have Angels ever made helped drastically, ever provided you with anything you truly need in your life? Demons have helped us drastically in awakening the powers of the mind achieving God Head.
Jehovah tells his followers that they shall stone witches, magicians, sorcerers, fortune tellers and sooth Sayers to death. He forbids his followers to work on psychic matters and the powers of their mind. He forbids spirit mediumship, channelling and divination, because apparently if you want to know something or you need help with something you come to him. How on earth can you gain information or help from and Entity that you cannot see or communicate with? That's like saying "Don't talk to these people, come over here, say a bunch of stuff to me and you won't hear me answer back at all".
You're making sweeping claims that you cannot back up, either. When I said "you new age people" I did not mean this to be derogatory or to imply that I am above you or separated from you. Go and ask your precious "guide" what my middle name is. See what happens then.

I would say that though it would be interesting to see his guide tell him the correct anwser, he won't becuase it really doesn't have any implications on his life and is only a trivial matter, thought I will take a guess as for some strange reason I am getting a Michael from you, but I am more then likly wrong.  (Take note that I didn't question my guide on this, only a gut feeling)

Speaking of my guide, he seems to pop up when ever he wants too, never really called him ever and for some reason he hasn't been around lately, oh well.

Ive interacted with both negs and pos. Negs act like they are your freind and tend to be more flamboyant and boisterous than a pos. Positives tend to be very relaxed and subdued.

Now as for the angel / demon thing. I personally have never seen an "angel". The whole angel thing is actually quite new to me. My spitit has been under neg control for a number of life times apparentally, its not a pleasent story.

However, my current guide, and real guide, is a very positive entity. But as I have said, ive been thru both. Satanism is not the anwser.

I havent choosen that path, nor will I. The path to hate and suffering is very grim. Not only that but it bleeds over into the next life. Just keep that in mind.

Once again you make a very unsubstantiated claim: a path of grim hatred? sorry, but you're way out of your league here.
Obviously there is no one path for EVERYONE. I think different paths suit different people, wouldn't you agree?
However I am concerned about the immense weakness displayed by alot of modern occultists, something I've noticed quite a bit on this forum.

Your life is your choice, but as people will tell you, I speak the truth. But Im not gonna stop you. Just dont say I didnt warn you.[xx(]

As for "weakness" you have no idea. It takes a strong will to deal with the things ive seen and what ive been put through. You can choose to follow them, be my guest.

However to consider my compassion a weakness is just absurd. Im just giving you fair warning before you drown in the deep end. I was stupid enough to try the BS you are doing several lives ago, and Im still paying for it[}:)]

I have seen where hatred grows. If you would open your eyes for a minute you would see the maw you are about to enter. But yes, you can choose your path, however you should try to listen to the advice of others every now and then...... you have no idea what you are getting yourself into.

My experiences as a child were horrific at best. They werent dillusions or nightmares. Every psychic Ive met senses that on me. If you look at several threads you will see that many positive entities refused to anwser my questions. Both when I asked my friend's guide and when SD channeled Michael. My close ties from my previous lives are ridden with negs and pretty horrible things. From what my positive guide tells me, they refused to anwser in fear of what the knowledge would do to me, and partly becase they sensed too much of them within me. What you are doing will bring about sorrow and mallice for many lives to come.

Im not saying to turn to the church, becasue I disagree with them on a great number of levels. I myself am agnostic. Despite this I have seen your little friends, they are like foxes guarding the hen house.

I urge you to find the source of your issues before you try to smother them with blind hatred, or denial. Despite what you say, do not let your need for belonging or resolve allow you to travel this path or woe shall be you.

quote:

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Originally posted by aryanknight666

Once again you make a very unsubstantiated claim: a path of grim hatred? sorry, but you're way out of your league here.
Obviously there is no one path for EVERYONE. I think different paths suit different people, wouldn't you agree?
However I am concerned about the immense weakness displayed by alot of modern occultists, something I've noticed quite a bit on this forum.

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This is not what you claimed earlier.

And what did I claim earlier?

Many lifetimes ago aye? we're talking hundreds of years then?
That's funny considering they did not have real satanic rituals up until about 1966.
HP's probably have many times more experience in the occult then you have, I'd rather trust there word, maybe I can talk to this so called "pos" but I can not see or interact with them physically, or hve any real proof they even exist.
Just out of interest, what more does your guide have to say about me, demons and the left hand path?

aryanknight666, you've made your case, why not start a new thread with your views?

The Land of Mu is also mentioned in mayan times.
read The Tutankhamun and Mayan Propecies by Maurice Cotterell pgs. 23 thru i think its 30 or so. It explains a few things about the connections between Mexico, Egypt and Asia and so on.

Please continue discussion on Michael here so that it does not clutter the other thread.

Anyway, I noticed many people expressing concern that Michael might be an entity who is stealing energy from SD due to mentions SD made on being drained after a mediation.  There is something I thought I might add about this.  It comes from the Franz Bardon Home Page.  Franz Bardon is the man who wrote Initiation into Hermetics.  The site was written by one of his students who has talked to a number of spirits, including the archangel Gabriel.  Here is a short quote from that site.

http://lava.net/~pagios/gabriel.html

quote:

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But the Bible goes on in the prophet's words,  "And I, Daniel,
fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the
king's business;  and I was astonished at the vision, but none
understood it."  The point I wish to make is that Daniel was
exhausted from his encounter with Gabriel.  The presence of angels
such as Gabriel exert a great psychic force.  In interacting with
them, you are taken up out of history so that you look down upon
the affairs of men from the perspective of eternity.  
  This is a gigantic leap and a full blown encounter with one of
these beings can injure your nervous system in addition to leaving
you exhausted for many days.  The vision Gabriel interpreted for
Daniel spoke of the fate not only of the present but of future
nations.  Imagine having a contact like this at the beginning of our
century when the car and airplane were just being invented.  
   You would see the horrors of World War I and the millions upon
millions killed in World War II.  You would see the weapons they
used, entire cities obliterated, and the advent of weapons of mass
destruction.   To say the least, the visions themselves could be
enough to cause emotional shock not to mention the tension
produced from entering into this heightened state of perception.
  As I have outlined elsewhere, it is advisable, then, to work through
some basic training before jumping into the global and world
historical perspective of Gabriel's vision.  In the hermetic tradition,
this is summarized first in terms of becoming acquainted with the
four elements.  The air element allows you to relax completely and
open your mind so it is enlightened free of all attachment and as
clear as the sky.

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Quote from: CoveloTaken from The Arch Angel question Thread

SD,

I have a couple questions that you might be able to answer, or Michael. :wink:  

Is my friend, Carol, really in contact with Michael and what can she do or where can she get help for her constant onslaught of psychic attacks?

Also I might add that I asked my friend if you were really in contact with Michael and immediately he showed up, according to her, and he said, "No, I don't do that kind of thing."

Your responses could possibly help to settle this for me once and for all.

Be well...

Covelo

In my opinion, and keep in mind I have not channeled the AA on this matter, She is being harrassed. If she is being harrased, then it is not a loving entity that is harrassing her. Since I know micheal to be a loving entity, I do not believe it is micheal, or any of the other arch angels. What I believe is happening is you have a couple very nicely disguised fakes. It is important to note the overwhelming love coming from these entities when attempting to identify them.

In micheals Case, the love is of the "fiery" sort. He is a protector. Religious sources call him the champion of mankind for a reason. He is willing to fight to protect what he loves. Such a being would not harass a human, as that is not an act of love.

But then again, we will see what the arch angel has to say.