'Impossible' things manifesting physically

[zeno]

I think you guys are missing the point here.  This is all "in your head". The only daemons are in your head.  Even though projecting astrally may seem like an outward phenomenon, it's the mind capacity to create a virtual representation of the world you live in or think about.  Same thing that happens with lucid dreaming.  It doesn't lessen the the value, just shows that it's not worth focusing on the nagative aspects.

[cube]

It is extremely important to distinguish between reality and not reality. If it turns out something is all in the head then it definitely does lessen its importance and it's literally insane to think otherwise.

Experience is the only test, we can philosophize all day about whether the chair I'm sitting on is real but I'm going to say that based on my many 'sitting' experiences I've shared with it that it's probably part of reality. I'll leave the pontification for sctt483.

[volcomstone]

one thing  about modern psychology today is the internal external strugle.  

I hate sigmund freud (sp?), he was probally the most psychotic austrian I've ever heard of. (besides hitler)
his legacy continues today where modern science has proven only two methods of treatment

heavy drug use, or nothing.

[zeno]

I say this in light of Tibetan Budhism.  I've read many times over that even in the bardo state (after death) all things that appear to the soul are illusory, they are fears, hopes etc...  Like a mechanism that prevents you to distinguish truth from fallacy.

I am not saying ALL of these experiences don't exist outside the self, simply that some of these "fantastic" or "conspiracy" ones are most likely the ego trying to grasp on the last bit it can to prevent its demise.  You identify yourself with Ego, you say something about yourself, such as "I am a doctor" or "I am an OBE-er", you're thinking through your Ego.  Getting rid of this is one main objective in life (for Budhists anyway), but it can cause a lot of confusion.

I am obviously still making assumptions here, I'll never really know until I get a good taste of Ego-Death.  But the main idea I think is you can see the world without the veil placed on it by the Ego... an OBE won't cause you to see that much more clearly since you're still identifying yourself mentally in the same way.

[cube]

I agree with you zeno but the distinction is that some things are true whether we believe them or not. "I am a doctor" is dependent on your belief, you're no longer a doctor when you stop thinking you're a doctor.

But the chair I am sitting on will be a chair whether I pretend it's a chair or an elephant or an exploding sun or whatever. The chair doesn't really care what anyone thinks about it or whether or not Joe OBEer has experienced ego death. It's still a chair.

So the problem is deciding whether Bigfoot is like the chair or like the beleif in doctorhood.

[SomeBloke]

From:
www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism1/35348/0/collapsed/5/o/1

I particularly was interested in the bit that starts:

Within the human species, we find both higher and lower species who are more subtle than ourselves.



In reply to:
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It has always been my understanding that the higher you go up in the 14 planetary systems, the subtler the inhabitant's bodies are. I concluded that the lower you go, the opposite is also true. But, I'm not so sure any more. Would you be able to clear this issue for me?


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Though it is true that the bodies become more subtle as we go up in the fourteen planetary systems, it is not true that the bodies become more gross as you go down below the earthly planetary system. In regards to the physical nature of objects, the earthly planet is the lowest or grossest. The seven lower planetary systems are actually heavenly planets. Srila Prabhupada uses the words "subterranean heavenly planets" (bila-svarga) to describe them. These lower heavenly planets are actually materially more opulent than the higher planets. This is because most of the inhabitants are demons, and their interest is only in sense enjoyment. These planets are mostly inhabited by yakshas, rakshasas, nagas and danavas, who are much subtler than us.

The Sutala-loka is ruled by Bali Maharaja, who is a rakshasa. The inhabitants of these planets are described as possessing similar qualities to those of the devas. For example, they do not grow old, they do not perspire, they do not get sick, and they do not get grey hair.

In the Vitala-loka, a form of Lord Shiva resides along with many bhutas (goblins). The bhuta is a lower human species than us, yet it is more subtle. The planetary system known as Talatala is ruled by the demon Maya Danava.

The Patalaloka is inhabited by the nagas, a type of heavenly snake. Nagas possess three forms, one as a human, one as a snake, and one as a half-human half-snake. They are able to change between these three forms at will. These nagas have special jewels on their hoods that emit tremendous light, and this light illuminates the entire subterranean heavenly planets. The light of the sun does not reach the lower planetary systems, so the inhabitants depend on the light from the nagas for illumination.

Among the fourteen planetary systems, only three systems are visible to the human eye. These are the bhur-loka, bhuvar-loka and svar-loka. Other planetary systems, even those situated below the earth, are not perceivable to us. Thus all the stars and planets we see in the night sky, even with the aid of a telescope, belong to these three planetary systems, with a few rare exceptions.

Below the fourteen planetary systems in the intermediate space between the Garbha ocean and the Patalaloka exists the abode of Yamaraja. There are two aspects to this abode, one is the Pitru-loka, where saintly and religious people dwell, and the other is the Naraka-loka, or the hellish planets where the sinful are punished.

It is interesting to note that even the lower species in the other planetary systems are more subtle than ourselves. For example, the animals in the gardens of heaven, nandan-kanana, are physically subtler than our own bodies, despite ourselves belonging to the higher human species. They may be generally within the mode of ignorance, as animals are, yet we are still elementally grosser than them. If for some reason one of these animals were to be standing before us, we would not even be able to see them unless they revealed themselves to us.

Within the human species, we find both higher and lower species who are more subtle than ourselves. Yakshas and rakshasas are higher, and naturally more subtle, but bhutas and pishacas are lower species than us, yet they are also more subtle.

The inhabitants of the lower planets are generally described as asuras (demons), but we must understand that asura is not a species but a mentallity. Yakshas, rakshasas, etc., are species, whereas asura is a level of consciousness. One may even be residing in svargaloka, but if he is averse to the service of the Lord then he is an asura. In this sense there are only two classes of men, sura and asura, or the devotee and the atheist.

The sura or deva is defined as follows:

vishnu-bhakto bhaved daivah

"Those who are devotees of Lord Vishnu are known as deva."

The asura is defined by Lord Krishna at length in the sixteenth chapter of Bhagavad Gita, but in short it is like this:

pravrtitim ca nivrittim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam teshu vidyate

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them."

Thus we find that there are many cases of people who are rakshasas, yet who aren't asuras (demoniac). And on the other side we have people who are from higher births, yet are asuras by nature. One such example among the rakshasas is Bhakta Prahlada. Though being a rakshasa, he is the highest devotee of Vishnu.

[narfellus]

Bloke, what is that quote? I hadn't heard those terms/description before. As for the demon names, yes, some of those are familiar. I think it is probably just an older method of man's understanding of the etheric/supernatural. The more i read about it the more i understand how volumes of human knowledge are lost to time/discrimination, only to be found anew at a later age. Still, the 14 planetary thingees sounds weird, but i'm sure it fits into the whole cosmology somehow. Any theories??

[SomeBloke]

Hi,
Through several weeks in April I was witnessing on a continuous basis impossible things manifesting physically e.g
People and objects disappearing,
Faces of other people distorting beyond recognition,
Humanoid creatures with black holes for eyes and a mouth.
Telepathy with others, mostly evil 'people' reading my thoughts and commenting out loud on them.
Relatives/other acquaintances becoming (or have they always been?) evil and acting in obstructive ways.
'People' mirroring my actions constantly, e.g. I would go ourside and across the road someone would step out - I would pause, they would pause, I'd walk, they'd walk.  Constantly.
I saw a huge shadow fly overhead, like a massive asteroid was about to hit, but there was nothing in the sky.

Things have returned to a weird kind of normality, although there's all these entities wandering around in human form that simply are not human.  Now that all sounds crazy, but I promise you that's what happened.

I wanna know if I'm the only one who has experienced this crazy stuff?

It seems to come in waves with last months being by far the worst so far, and I get the impression we are in for an even bigger one towards the end of the year.

If other people start to experience this weirdness I just wanted to try and put together a few thoughts about how I should have dealt with this stuff better:

1) Mobile phones - at the start of this phenomenon I got weird cross talk on a mobile phone conversation with like a second voice of my friend sounding really distressed.  Don't use mobile phones.  Stop using them now.
2) The TV programs went crazy - don't watch TV if this happens to you.
3) Confusion - this is the biggie.  You are in danger of becoming so confused that you wander around aimlessly, possibly causing harm.  For me it was like whatever I did was also having an unseen effect elsewhere.  Doubling back on yourself seemed to be the main thing to avoid.
4) If what you are doing appears to be having a positive effect maybe you should keep doing it.  If it isn't maybe you should stop.

I hesitate to put down any other points in case I'm wrong - anyway it would be preferable if it simply didn't happen to you.

Someone on a different thread talking about the 'Astral War' said that by talking about it we were inviting it to happen - I'm sorry but seriously weird stuff is going on whether you want it to or not.  You may not have invited the Gulf War or 9/11 into your life but they happened anyway.

There is incredibly strange stuff going on focused on this little planet, and it seems like every type of entity speculated about in this forum has come to watch the show.

So, from reading these forums what do we have lined up for June?
Well, we have people saying big asteroids will almost certainly hit, and we have people saying the alignment with Venus will
herald a sudden awakening of psychic abilities in man.
Me? I'm gonna get fit and meditate more, 'cos I haven't got a clue what else to do.