I WANT TO BELIEVE

no_leaf_clover · May 28, 2003, 15:16:32

ever had an obe or lucid dream, etc? thats what this site is here for, to teach people to do those things and more.

jjnewbin · May 28, 2003, 15:49:13

Hi,

Yeah I have been a reader of this site for a long time. But no, I have not had any of those experiences that I am aware of. I did not mention OBE's or LD's in my post because this is the "General Metaphysics" forum and I was speaking generally.

But if I had an OBE that would be the proof (enough for me) that there is indeed more than the physical.

no_leaf_clover · May 28, 2003, 15:57:14

then thats what you should try for [

]

that 90-day program looks tough.. a lot of time has to be dedicated to it. thats why i'm going to have to wait for summer break to start. hopefully i'll be a lot more developed by the end of the program.. or else ill feel really idiotic. [

]

clandestino · May 29, 2003, 04:03:55

hi jjnewbin !!

try getting Robert Bruce's "astral dynamics" and giving it a good read.

This book really got me excited about the possibility of going OBE whenever I want..(Can't do it though-yet).

Anyway, it got my mind so worked up / excited that I had an OBE in the first week of reading it (just woke up one morning and I was floating toward the ceiling).
cheers,
Mark

jjnewbin · May 29, 2003, 06:55:01

That is impressive that you had an OBE in the first week.

I have had his book for a while now. Nothing that can clearly be called an OBE has happened. I did, however, have an experience that seemed to go along with the descriptions of the vibrational stage.

I like NEW, I just don't know if it is my imagination or not.

Ides315 · May 29, 2003, 07:37:48

Hey, jjnewbin.

Have you read the "catch basket concept" by Robert?

Also, try coming from the side that it needs to be disproven, not proven. One of the biggest blocks people have is there own mind. To accept what people here are doing is to toss the "material" world and almost all social conditioning on its ear. Your ego will fight this to some extent. Most people are comfortable in the "box".

Best to all

Nerezza · May 29, 2003, 17:46:20

I was sort of the opposite. I grew up having weird things happen to me(crazy crazy things), but as soon as I turned 12ish, it all stopped. Around that same time I heard about OBE's but decided against it out of fear. Over the next few years, I started to disbelieve what had happened.

Luckly I collected my experiences and have whatever evidence I was seeking. Now here I am ten years later, trying to master OBEs(only had one), no longer seeking evidence, only trying to regain what I had experienced for the first 10 years of my life.

Just keep trying, but don't do anything foolish like ask for neg's to visit[:O]

Rob · May 30, 2003, 04:29:28

Hey
There are a few safe things you can try playing with, see what you can find. For instance, EVP is readily accessible to anyone, and if you continue doing regular NEW style energy work and meditation, something interesting is *bound* to happen after a while!
But, maybe there is a lesson in this. Perhaps you have the wrong angle - all these little tricks are really quie irrelevant in the grande scale of things. If you look up towards the heavens then back at yourself, well, we are all so tiny and irrelevant. Someone with "amazing powers" eg abiltiy to pick up books with telekinesis - impressive maybe, but in itself, utterly pathetic. Whats impressive is the time taken and the strenght of will to be able to do it, the feat in itself is nothing.
adios!
Rob

Allanon · May 30, 2003, 14:24:58

For the skeptic who wishes experintial proff I reccomend trying the Shaman drink Ayahausca. You will have OBEs and entity contacts. No sitting around hoping for something to happen. It will happen.

jjnewbin · May 30, 2003, 14:37:02

Allanon, I am not much into the drug thing anymore. I am 32 now ya know! When I was in my early 20's drugs were, of course, cool. But, alas, they just aren't anymore.
Besides, I don't live in the Southwest, I live on the Gulf Coast.

The person before Allanon (that post doesn't show up on this REPLY screen) had a good point that maybe the journey to something like telekinesis is more important than the actual ability. That assumes telekinesis is real (I have no reason to think it is or is not) but I think you are right.

Ides315 · May 31, 2003, 11:05:45

He is very right. Most "abilities" that one devolops are infact side effects of personal growth.

Allanon · May 31, 2003, 12:58:17

The problem with dismissing "drugs" completely is that in the process you are missing the whole point. Alein abductions, OBE's, Telekinesis, and other sorts of paranormal activity are created by the brain. In a test dealing with DMT, 500 people were given very high doses of it and over half of them had alein abduction/encounters right in front of the doctors doing the experiment. You dont ever "see" aleins and ghosts because your brain is basically not secreting the chemicals to open the door into other realms. Sure this sounds like bullsh#@ to many here but think about it. Something cannot come from nothing. We here of people fasting, meditating and doinf all sorts of other techniques in order to invoke God or what have you. All you are doing is changing your neuro pathways to be able to perceive the other. The human mind is a filter of reality. You only see what a human is supposed to see. If your know of a chemical catalyst that stops that part of the brain (ie psilocybin and DMT) you will see as Kant puts it "Things as they really are". Ayahausca is not a "drug". It is a spiritual entity that has helped the Shamans in the amazon "see" for many, many centuries. It is a healing of your body, mind, and spirit. It will cause OBEs and entity contacts. If you want your proof that is where you will find it.

Allanon · May 31, 2003, 13:05:22

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/

Go to this forum and learn about the biological catalyst to other dimensions. (Sorry if that sounds like bullsh@# but I am telling you that it is scientifically documented to cause OBE's).

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892819278/qid=1054407819/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-3056814-1845546?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

In fact if anyone here is interested check out this book. It is chalk full of scientifically documented cases of a tryptamine such as DMT being the cause of a lot of supposed "aleins" and such. DO IT !!!! It is worth it. I promise.

Allanon · May 31, 2003, 13:08:42

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892819278/qid=1054407819/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-3056814-1845546?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

In fact this book is right up there in the top three for me as far as a book for seekers goes. I have read hundreds of books on OBEs, meditation, aleins, NDEs, etc, and this one is the one that sticks in my mind the most.

jjnewbin · June 05, 2003, 12:21:39

I believe you Allanon about these psychoactive chemicals leading to these experiences.

But how do you know that they are 'opening' up new perceptions or are just causing a hallucination?
That is the problem with chemicals (drugs) of all kinds.

I would never say never, but I would prefer to get to these higher states (assuming they exist at all) on my own.

Allanon · June 06, 2003, 00:26:23

We exist in eternity.

There are parts of the brain that deal with space/time.

There are chemicals that disable these parts of the brain.

When I mean a new "perception" I am meaning what I say. It is not a
"hallucination" as the mind is temporarily unable to "filter" what we percieve through the senses.

When I say I have met Christ it is because of the fact that I was "able" to due to my present "wiring". Believe what you may but don't put too much trust in false spirits because in the end they will betray you. Don.t put trust in yourself either. There is only One.

Fat_Turkey · June 06, 2003, 02:01:53

Just do NEW or some other kind of energy-related DEVELOPMENT. You can't learn to run without walking first.

If you don't believe after the development feelings, then give up. There's no point. You have to decide whether or not you're going to let science blind you or whether you decide that this is your truth. True inspiration and belief comes from within. If you don't believe yourself and try to rely on other people you won't get anywhere. Decide for yourself now or give up.

Later
-FT

TheSeeker · June 06, 2003, 14:42:15

I know you said you didn't want to do drugs. I'm trying to get back into doing this the natural way myself. But, proof came to me through acid/shrooms. I ate 1/2 an 1/8th of shrooms and my roomate and I formed a telepathic link a few times (he ate a whole 1/8th which I don't recommend), communicated w/out speaking. Which is hard to prove while you're tripping, hehe, but afterwards we talked about it and confirmed it.

I don't agree with Allanon with everything being real that you see, some of it is hallucination, like when I saw my roomate mutate into a rat-man, or when the tree branch ripped my friends head off, luckily i was experienced enough to know that I made myself see that by thinking about it. Even when you conciously project, your perception forms your reality, through meditation you learn to clear your mind and seperate what is there and what you made up.

As far as the people being tested on drugs, I believe they had some OBEs, but the alien abduction were most likely just hallucinations (i.e caused by perception) caused by being operated on or observed by doctors, and being confused.

Rob · June 09, 2003, 02:03:39

On the subject of drugs - there are some that are produced in the brain, and are effectively spiritual drugs, which will cause spiritual experiences if taken in quantity (dmt). Also there are the ORMUS/OMRE/M-state metals eg white powder gold, used for personal development (eg pharoes, bread of last supper, manna, etc) from before we the time that we even have records any more. So......

adiraz · June 09, 2003, 09:01:46

hi...I had to temporarily assume the role of a messiah, before what I saw then to be the god of all things good (now i think it was my higher self) revealed itself to me for the first time via an incredible blissful energy pulse. Even though I have this form spiritual 'proof' several times, I find myself quite often questioning whether reality is spiritual or not. This is of course my body and its mortality trying to confuse me. Which inturn causes me to want more proof. So like it happens with me; your body is tricking you to into needing proof for something that already is. You may find this out which is why faith makes a good friend... just dont expect the frustration to stop it'll increase as your body realises it has a serious contender lol.SUX HUH[

]

But I have an idea if your game... find a problem ... then ask for some distance work from Nita from AP [http://www.astralpulse.com/magick/nita/nita.htm] to fix you up. I was quite impressed with what happened when she did some magic on me, like for one I saw a absolutely crystal clear beige eclipse set on black background in my 3rd eye sponaneously for like 15 seconds (my 3rd eye is generally more like a dirty fish tank), and had my first OBE in a dream. I can't do real OBE yet even after 2 years but i cant say i really work at it. She was very powerful working parts of my energy body as well... and she was on the other side of the world. I guess this would be the kind of proof you seem to be looking for. Course I cant say you will get anything like what I experienced. If you dont have any suitable problems try a search for free distance reiki atunements... Can't go wrong.

jjnewbin · June 18, 2003, 15:54:33

quote:
Originally posted by Fat_Turkey

If you don't believe after the development feelings, then give up. There's no point. You have to decide whether or not you're going to let science blind you or whether you decide that this is your truth. True inspiration and belief comes from within. If you don't believe yourself and try to rely on other people you won't get anywhere. Decide for yourself now or give up.

Later
-FT

Wow, it seems you are often in a bad mood, aren't you FT? I noticed that with some other posts of yours. I am not aware that I let science blind me. Did I even mention science at all? I do do NEW actually. I am also a Reiki II. That is how unimpressed I am with "energy". I have not given up and will "keep on keepin' on" as they say. I particulary like Robert Bruce's idea of total deconstruction of your beliefs (found in the Catch Basket article) down to what you have actually experienced and know.

Of course, this will leave me with zero since I have not experienced or seen anyone else experience anything at all, but it is a beginning and good advice.

jjnewbin · May 28, 2003, 14:55:13

Hello all,

I posted this recently on another board on the internet, but I don't think many people go there. So I thought I would post it here too and see what you ideas you might have.

I have always been interested in the paranormal. I know many of you will say the 'paranormal' is actually very normal, but let me just use this word for lack of a better one.
I have also always linked evidence of the paranormal with spirituality in general...life after death, spirits, guides, ghosts etc...

I usually believe people who talk about their experiences in books, in person or on boards like this one. I have no reason not to.
But here is the problem: I have never experienced anything that shows me there is more to this world than the physical for myself.

Remember the X-Files? I think there was a poster in Mulder's office that read:
"I WANT TO BELIEVE"

That is me. I want to believe, but I have no reason to other than what is on TV, the internet and written in New Age books.
And believe me I have 'prayed' for some sort of sign or tangible proof of some kind that would show me, irrefutably, that there is more than the physical. Lots of people experience these things, I haven't.

You could say "Go on Faith" but anyone from really enlightened people to homocidal madmen could say something like that.

What to do? Without a real experience of some kind I am just left to believe millionaire New Age authors!

It certainly is frustrating. No one wants to pursue something that never shows evidence of its existence.

Brian
Texas

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I WANT TO BELIEVE