Is Jesus really a holy figure?

[amed_h]

Metaphysics simply describes phenomenon outside of our current handle on science/physics.. anything out of the ordinary that is unknown of origion by our current standards.

Your four points only stabilize his holyness, in that his neohuman abililties came from his complete trust and faith in the source.

[Azrioch]

I actually just finished a book that address this question. It has many theories. I think the most interesting one is that he was a hypnotist. All of his miracles can be described through hypnotism.

I think that he was a great person although I do not really think a religion should have been created revolving around him. Of course, each is entitled to their opinion but you have to ask the question:

If Jesus resurrected today would he be more at home with modern Cristianity or with Judism?

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"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" - Waking Life

[amed_h]

I believe neither.  I feel that he'd be most at home as a Buddhist, if he were to classify himself in an Earthly religion.  You can skip all of that and go directly to the Source if you wish, and I'd like to think he'd do that.

[Azrioch]

Well... I the point of the question was to illustrate if Christianity was in fact molded to what "Christ would have wanted" or if it was molded to something other than what he wanted and he would be more comfortable with Judiasm. Christianity was originally just an offspring of Judiasm. Just as much as Buddhism is an offspring of Hinduism.

From what I´ve heard the Gospels were written 100 years or so after Christ´s physical death.

*shrugs*

Maybe he would be more comfortable with Buddhism. I found it very strange when I was reading some of what Christ did (my knowledge of Judeo-Christian religion is very limited) that they compaired almost exactly to some feats that were accomplished by modern day Yogis. Ever read "Autobiography of a Yogi"? Sri Yukteshwar did the exact same thing that Jesus did just on a smaller scale. Where Jesus supposetedly took all the sins of mankind, Sri Yukteshwar took some of the karma of the author and as a result became visibly sick.

It´s just another one of those great mysteries. No way to really know, is there? Unless, of course, he resurrected.

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"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" - Waking Life

[kakkarot]

ok, i think i'll bite. but be warned that i will be arguing for why Jesus holy  

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auraseer said he was merely an advanced metaphysicist:
healed a blind man: well, he didn't just heal a blind man. he healed many people of many diseases. all of this could be explained through metaphysics, almost. in one of his healings he told a man to stretch out his hand, and the hand was healed. Jesus didn't even touch him.

in another example, a man wanted Jesus to heal his daughter (or was it his servant) who died as the man was talking to Jesus (a messenger told them both this), but Jesus declared to the man that the person would be alive when the man returned, and so the person was. too far for advanced, i think.

saw a prophecy: i really don't remember the bible ever saying Jesus say prophecy. could someone please indicate where this was? thanks

revived from the dead: yes, he was most certainly dead. the romans knew when people were dead and when they were merely faking it. the fact that both blood and water ran from the wound by the spear after he died is medical proof of his death, since it is supposedly impossible for a person to bleed at the same time as the water in their body leaks out from the same wound while they are alive.

rolled the stone away: yeah, it could have been metaphysical.

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the book Azrioch read said that Jesus' miracles could be explained through hypnotism, but how would a person feed five thousand men (the women and children in the crown weren't even put in the count) with seven loaves of bread and twelve fish using hypnotism? or bring lazerus (spelling?) back from the dead since hypnotism only works on the living?

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So is Jesus really a holy figure? well, first i think it might be important to realize that the original definition of holy is "to set apart for a purpose", and in that respect Jesus, who the Christ, was holy. He was set apart to live the life of an example for the rest of us, and then to die as a sacrifice so we could be forgiven.

If you mean holy as in having a divine slant, then it becomes more a debate as to what the potential of mankind is, whether the Christ broke that, and is there a limit before which a person is merely human and after which is part of some "divine" concept.

and finally, to Azrioch, the four "Gospels" of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were all written years after the Christ's death, but all within 100 years of Christ's death. there were a "historical" compilation from each author denoting what they could remember of the Christ's life. the rest of the new testament books are exactly what they claim to be in their respective openings.

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[Ides315]

Hey all.

Nice reply kakkkarot.

I would add 2cents

Spiritual would be better than metaphysical. Jesus was the perfect example of what we all could achieve, and should try to.

Jesus also used a persons own energy to heal, by the belief that it could be done. He performed many healings of his own, but also used someones unwavering belief in him to work for themselves.

There is much conjecture that OBE was part of Jesus's abilities. Given the stature of his abilities, it really is not even a question. OBE is only a break from the material world, into the true "universe" or "all" of full reality. His time on the material plan was for our benefit, not his.

As far as Ki, etc.... It is all energy and he had THE best tap to it. Perfection has its uses.....

Best

[amcturbo]

Hi all,
I'll ante up on the side of Christ being who He said He is and here's why.  I'll be speaking mostly from experiences I've had.  The rest will be info. I've been studying and highly recommend!

First off, I am a Christian and have been since 03-10-1989.  While I've been a Christian since the age of 15, I was raised in a church my entire life.  Until I was 15, I just didn't get it, as much of what I was taught was confusing and unclear.  However, during a performance of Jesus Christ Superstar, as I was watching Christ on the cross, I heard a voice (Jesus) say to me, "This is what I have done for you" ... and it all was suddenly quite clear what he had done.  That is experience No. 1.

Experience No. 2 occurs on 07-13-1990, while being Re-baptised.  I was 17 at the time.  I had previously been baptised at 12, for confirmation, but had no clue what baptism was about, so I decided to be re-baptised at a church camp retreat.  As I was submersed into the swimming pool, I was instantly surrounded by pure white light, as if I wasn't in the pool anymore (OBE basically).  This only lasted for a blink of an eye and I was then back in the pool.

The third experience occured last Fall, at age 29, while riding my mt. bike home from work.  I was deeply struggling with the recurring theme of Reincarnation being experienced in OBE's, NDE's and hypnosis.  At that point, I had already experienced this in a Dream and under Hypnosis.  I thought that if reincarnation were true, then Christianity was false.  My thoughts were, "So, if reincarntion is true, I can accept that, but how will that affect my marriage relationship?  What do I do with the Christ'experiences' I've had?"  Knowing that this would cause huge problems for our marriage and worrying about what the future holds when I discuss this with my Christian wife ... I telepathically hear THAT VOICE say again, "THAT future may never happen, Greg."  This is the same male voice I heard at Jesus Christ Superstar ... the voice of Jesus.  That's all He said and it was simply, yet powerfully and matter-of-factly said.  I had been ready to toss Christ out and accept Reincarnation ... my black-n-white all-or-nothing thinking was limiting me.  It's apparent that Christ was interested my delima and sought to help me out.  I am extremely grateful for that!

Shortly after this experience, I began coming accross all sorts of books that began revealing that Christianity AND Reincarnation have a common heritage in the ministry of Christ.  The more I read, the more amazing it becomes.  By far, the BEST material to read comes from Edgar Cayce, specifically "Edgar Cayce on the Dead Sea Scrolls", "Edgar Cayce's Story of Jesus".  Long-story-short on Cayce, he was able to, while UNCONSCIOUSLY asleep, access the Akashic Records of a person and give detailed accounts of their past lives, especially lives of those who were intimate with Christ through out history (among about 10,000 other topics covered).  Now for the interesting part, Cayce was a fundamental Christian, devoted to helping people with this Gift.  I highly recommend that you READ THE CAYCE MATERIAL ... it's truly amazing stuff!

Also, check out the following Bible verses where Jesus discusses that John the Baptist (his cousin) was the incarnation of Elijah:  Malachi 4:5 (the prophecy), Matthew 11:11-15 and Matthew 17:1-13 ... very interesting scriptures!

The Cayce material goes into depth regarding the incarnations of Christ, leading up the life as Jesus the Christ, where he lived the Example (self-less love) for us all and gave us the conscious awareness of how to ultimately return to God.  I'm still researching this, so I have much to learn.  I am also "researching" this on the Astral, when I'm out there.  

Lastly, my wife and I have discussed the Reincarnation and Christianity issue and have RECONCILED over it ... something I thought to be impossible.  For that, I am extremely grateful also!

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

Master Jesus was, and still is a very highly evolved Adept/Master, who chose to incarnate a couple of thousand years ago to teach Spiritual truths and realities in terms that the people of the day might understand. He did this because then, as now, mankind was taking the wrong path.

Everything he did, the healing, the so called miracles, are simple to a Master and Adept as high ranking as he was/is, using Universal laws. There are several Masters and Adepts who can perform similar feats.

Unfortunately, the writers of the bible a few hundred years later, omitted many of the important teachings, and explained the rest in material terms - the results is the bible and the basis for "christianity". Unfortunately, christianity became one of the biggest obstacles to the very Spiritual lessons that Master Jesus came here to teach.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[amcturbo]

Hi Adrian,
Thanks for the post!  In my reading of the Edgar Cayce material, he details a few of the incarnations of the Master (Jesus) and mentions that he had 30 different incarnations.  Are you familiar with any of this?  Some of the incarnations were Amilius (in Atlantis), Adam (in the Bible), Zend (in Persia ... founder of Zoroastrianism), Akunaten (in Egypt ... established the One God worship ... father of King Tut), Joseph (the OT Biblical amazing technicolor dreamcoat guy), Joshua (succeeded Moses), Enoch (OT Bible), Melchizedik (OT Bible), Jeshua (Bible), and lastly as Jesus the Christ.  Not all of his incarnations were discussed in Cayce's readings.  Funny thing is, when the sleeping prophet Cayce was asked what one could do to make this their LAST INCARNATION, he replied, "Do you expect to do in one lifetime what it took the Master 30 lifetimes to do?"  Makes one think, doesn't it?!

So, who are the several masters and adepts that can perform the feats similar to what the Master Jesus did?  Do you have any reading references that we could check out?

So, what are the important teachings of Jesus that were left out of the Bible, when it was compilated?  I am familiar with some of what occured with Emperor Constantine and the First Council of Nicea in 325, such as much of the VOTING on what they corporately believed or wanted to believe.

You make a good point about Christianity and it's current state.  Karmicly speaking, EVERYONE is right were they need to be, in order to learn the right Spiritual lessons at the right time, for their best good.  While everyone will not learn their lessons, this time around, they will learn them eventually.

[weagle]

Jesus Christ was the greatest saint (and teacher) ever lived (most will agree upon this) on this earth and I believe he is God because he said so and because of the fact that whatever uttered from his mouth happened exactly as he spoke it or believed it.  If he is God then God does not doubt himself thus everything he did he achieved instantly. At one time I believe we were exactly like Jesus Christ supermen when the first two human beings were created (adam&eve) and God stripped their power away because they didn't believe in him/trust in him anymore (when devil came to them and said eat this apple and be like God but ironically they had the fullness of God within them and just had to ask instead).  Even if you go back to history books look as josephus flavius "the jewish war" by penguin classics he was a jew commissioned to write for the romans on the history of the roman empire and he was compelled to leave his testimony of jesus christ he said he was the son of god himself he witnessed his miracles and he was not a Jesus believer.  Other books if you want to go back in time checkout mary agreda's book City of God (unabridged 4 volume set) she had the gift of bilocation (being two places at the same time) she preached the catholic faith to indians in usa while in spain she also had revelations of the beginning of the world, lessons on holyness, and also re-revealing the bible over again.  Even the metaphysical community look at her as some interesting spiritual character. Her body has not even decomposed after 350years as a sign.  She wrote about aiming towards being near god which are faith,hope,charity and moral virtues which we have to work throughout our life namely to achieve the end towards god which are Prudence, Fortitude, Temperance and Justice any religion doesn't follow these things is truly not from God thats for sure.

[auraseer]

Hi,
I watched a program a while ago, and it was the scientific reason how the earth was created. This theory made sense, and because I don't believe in God creating the people and earth I accepted it.

There was a follow-up to it and it was how the animals/humans were formed. It started off as a bacteria and it evolved into bigger things, and the apes evolved into humans.

This all makes sense. Any anyway, how can people write about what happened when there was only Adam and Eve on the planet (suggestively)?

What does everyone else think of this?

Cya,
auraseer.

[auraseer]

Warning: This post contains material that may be offensive or that may change your beliefs.
Hi,
I have recently been thinking about this one, and I have come up with the soloution that Jesus Christ may have been highly advanced in metaphysics.

Here is why:

• Healed a blind man - Healing, Ki healing.


• Saw a prophecy - May have been doing OBE or in his dream he was taken away by astral wind.


• Revived from the dead - May have not been fully dead in the first place. The is a chance he healed himself in the tomb.


• Rolled the stone away - Could have been a Ki practioner and used Ki to help him move it

What does everyone else think about this?

I am extremely sorry if this topic offends you.

Cya,
auraseer.

http://theteachingsofki.tripod.com/
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Everyone has limits. Learn to extend them and you will go further.
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