A friend had shared on her deep seated mistrust of channeled materials, teachings and entities.
The following (reproduced below) is is my response to her :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1105893311/4#4
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Hawk,
>>> In many posts, you mentioned that everything we needed to know we could just find out from our higher self. So, as a natural conclusion, we really don't need anyone else, even Hilarion, to give us insight in anything. We just need to be really honest with ourselves and we need time to figure things out... <<<
Firstly, yes of course, you should always do only what you're comfortable with, and only if that's what you yourself want, and not do something for the wrong reasons (eg. what someone else wants).
Secondly, again yes of course, we certainly don't *need* Hilarion to tell us anything, in the same way we don't *need* any guides and helpers at all (coz essentially, that's what Hilarion does, bless his soul). But hey, from our experience, Hilarion's Reading, as well as having guides and helpers, are a very good thing, coz quite simply, we find that all of us could always benefit from some good guidance and help (and this principle applies equally across all levels of Creation, to our peers, to our guides, to their guides, to Hilarion, to Hilarion's Guides, etc. ad infinitum). So yes, you're right, it's not *necessary*, not at all, but just oh so wonderfully useful, not to mention potentially life saving as well, if one happens to be struggling with extremely difficult and powerful issues, and are at the crossroads of destiny, so to speak.
The Law of Help states simply, that as you ask for Help, so you shall be given. The corollary of this is naturally, as you are asked for help, so you shall give it. We (all of creation) are afterall, One (and we as the One, is whom we call GOD), and so asking for help is the same as giving it. From one aspect of God to another, thus essentially GOD helping and loving It/Him/HerSelf.
But quite obviously, Hawk, your issue is not at all with being helped or helping others, it is rather a mistrust of the channeling process. Quite a number of individuals have this issue, and invariably (in addition to intrusion and attachment issues), it involves a negative experience with the channeling process in some past existence, either in this life or a previous one.
It is likely that you had perceived yourself (or a close one) to have been betrayed or misled, quite severely, in a past lifetime, by some channeled entity, teachings, or process. At this point, we offer the following perspective for your perusal :
All issues, particularly those involving mistrust and phobia, are invariably, at the deepest underlying level, due to a MISUNDERSTANDING on the part of the individual at the time the negative event took place. This (misunderstanding) is usually (and most insidiously) unconscious.
In the case of a mistrust of channeled material or the channeling process, it is often due to, in a past existence, the person had been exposed to the teachings of a channeled material or entity, and had devoutly 'trusted' or 'believed' in these teachings.
Now at this point, consider our words when we say that, the messages within any channeled material from any non-physical entity or group of entities, eg. Hilarion, Seth, Elias, Kryon, the Ashtar Command, the Nibiruan Council, Melora, Saint Germain, ArchAngel Michael, Sananda (Jesus Christ), etc, is in essence and verily, no different from the messages that your mother, brother, boss, colleague, or the roti-prata man down the street might have to say to you.
Sure the source, purpose, quality and intention of the contents might be markedly different, but then again, everyone's unique, so this is only natural. All of these messages, whether channeled (ie from a non-physical) or from the mouth of a physical being next to you, are exactly just that, messages. Nothing less, nothing more.
And remind yourself, that everyone (and we mean *EVERYONE* in all of Creation), is wonderfully unique, but also (true nature of whom is) equally GOD. That is to say, there ISN'T a 'correct' perspective or a 'wrong' perspective, ONLY PERSPECTIVES.
And is there any difference between a physical and non-physical being? Indeed (the only difference) is exactly just that - that one is (for now) physical, while the other is (for now) non-physical.
Does being non-physical make you omnipotent? Of course not, no more than being physical does. And neither do they (the true higher guides & ehlpers) ever claim to be such.
However of course, by virture of the natural differences (and this is understood by the soul before it incarnates into the physical) between the physical world/incarnational project and the non-physical worlds/state of existence, being in a physical body, naturally (and temporarily) 'limits' (it's playing a role, really) many of your (soul's) natural capacities (including intellectual, psychical, etc), as one now has to work with dense biological structures such as the brain, whose capacities are affected by genetics, chemicals, diet, etc. But that is not only all right, it is intended (how else could the movie play itself out if every character keeps on breaking out of his/her role mid-scene, "look Mr Director, the script says I'm supposed to shout out the wrong answer, but that's the wrong answer to the question! I protest!", when in fact, the plot requires the 'wrong' answer to be given, making it actually, the 'right' answer).
So, 'should' you trust totally the words of any channeled entity? Of course not, no more than you 'should' trust the words of the roti-prata man down the street. But to MISTRUST a message, merely because it comes from a non-physical source, ie. it's channeled material, is every bit as illogical, as unbalanced, and as fear-based, as to trust the words of a stranger, simply because he is physical.
What then, should we trust or not trust? The answer is of course, trust yourself, your intuition, your love, your connection to the highest forces. Not the words of someone simply because he's physical, or non-physical.
"Aha! So if that's the case, why should I bother listening to channeled material at all?" The answer is, of course, for the same reason you would listen to any non-channeled material, or the 9pm news on TV, because you might like to see for yourself if there's anything you might learn from it.
Do not forget you have been non-physical as well, and you will be non-physical sometime in the future. Does being non-physical automatically means you 'should' be excluded from doing your part to assist humanity in any way you can, in your areas of expertise, including by communicating your ideas via channeling?
Simultaneously, do not forget that all of us, are channeling at some level or another, in some form or another. The composer, writer, public speaker, the enginner, the artist, the designer, the researcher, the martial artist, simply being human, you are channeling the energies of everything that it means to be human. The very act of incarnating into a physical body, means you are channeling your soul (for the duration of your lifetime). And ultimately, every individual being, is by his/her/it's very existence, channeling the consciousness of GOD.
Do you realize, the non-physicals at times channel from the physical too? And that the non-physicals also channel other non-physicals. And that we physicals also channel from other physicals as well! This we do so because all of us are interconnected in so many ways, at so many levels. We are all channeling each other, as it should be.
Back to the difficulties some people have with the channeling process and with channeled teachings - once you (wrongly) attribute some 'divine authority' status to the source of the channeled teachings, and when the teachings prove itself to be 'wrong' (in the first place, all channeled materials are merely the PERSPECTIVES of the entity/entities being channeled, nothing more, nothing less), either because the channeled teachings happen to be simply not appropriate or helpful to you individually, or because the entity misunderstood the situation, or you interpreted the teachings in another way, etc, the bottom line is, it's just another perspective, and NOT meant to be the 'word of God' (there is only one true 'word of God' for each individual, and that is the Light within his/her own Love, that connects the individual to his/her true Self, GOD).
But if (in some past life) you might have (mistakenly) attributed some 'divine authority' status to some channeled ideas, even if this was done unconsciously, whereupon realizing that the teachings were 'false' (in that it did not apply to you, or was unhelpful (harmful even) to your evolution and your soul) you might then (the 2nd misunderstanding), perceive yourself as 'betrayed' and 'mislead' by these teachings, and feel hurt, outraged and (the 3rd misunderstanding a sense of deep mistrust of all channeled entities and materials. When in the first place, it was your own misconception and misunderstanding of the situation (misunderstanding #1 - attributing divine authority status to the non-physical for wrong reasons; misunderstanding #2 - thinking that the teachings are wrong and evil, just because they are indeed 'wrong' or innappropriate for YOU personally; misunderstanding #3 - letting fear based emotions make the false generalization or fallacy that if one channeled teaching is untrustworthy, all channeled teachings are by implication untrustworthy)
Reading a book of channeled teachings, or having a Reading from a channeled source, should not be regarded as any more 'correct' or 'divinely authorized' as compared to a visit to your doctor, your local gossip monger, or articles from the local tabloid newspaper. NOR ANY LESS.
Instead, as you read the material, or the personal Reading, it would be wise to TOTALLY DISREGARD IT'S SOURCE (physical or non) AND IT'S NATURE (channeled or non), AND JUDGE THE WORTHINESS OF THE IDEAS ON THE BASIS OF ITS MERITS ALONE.
But go ahead and expose yourself to any material (channeled or otherwise, the mode of transmission shouldn't matter, only the message itself matters) as you see fit, and give yourself the opportunity to gain and benefit from good ideas and such. It would be unnecessary and unwise, to cut yourself off from any source, simply because it's non-physical, or physical, for that matter.
As to the merits of any teachings, including channeled materials, Hilarion refers us to the biblical instruction, "BY THEIR FRUITS SHALL YE KNOW THEM". If a message (channeled or otherwise) invokes fear, coarser vibrations, contraction and darkness within you as you read it, DISCARD IT. (this does not mean the material was necessarily 'false' or 'evil', it means the way you have come to interpret it (*regardless* of whether the source had indeed intended it in this way) is indeed inappropriate (thus 'wrong') for you, personally, SO DISCARD IT. If necessary, cut off all personal contact from the source of this message in any way your intuition deems appropriate.
On the other hand, if the message (whether channeled or otherwise), has quality ideas, gives you a feeling of expansiveness as you connect to the ideas, inspires greater levels of love within yourself, helps you to understand, connect to, and empower yourself further, actually offers you clarification (enlightens you) rather than mere consolation, THEN THE MESSAGE IS OF MERIT, regardless of whether it is channeled or not.
Afterall, the message is just that - a message. It is then totally up to your free will (and your karmic self-responsibility), to accept it or to reject it, to be harmed/mislead/misguided by it, or to be helped/empowered/enlightened by the ideas which you chose to make your own.
NO MESSAGE (channeled or otherwise) CAN HURT YOU OR HELP YOU, UNLESS YOU FIRST CHOOSE TO AGREE WITH IT.
In conclusion, Hawk, whatever the deeper, underlying karma that gave rise to your mistrust of the channeling process, it will be up to you to decide if you (ever) wish to work it out (and why would you wish to work it out? perhaps coz a mistrust in something that was due in actuality to a misunderstanding in the first place, is not particularly helpful to cling onto?). But if you prefer to remain uncomfortable with it (for now, or forever) then certainly by all means it is also ok. As long as you are happy with it, coz really (for all of us), you're the only person you have to answer to.
Take care,
Kyo
-------------------------------------------------------
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1105893311/4#4
Hi Kyo,
Hawk made an exact point. It is our Higher-Self that we should aspire to connect with. In this time it is natural to mistrust the millions of channeled messages that are brought forth, as many channelers are hoaxers, even though they themselves do not know this about themselves.
The times we are in are floooded with this message and that from channellers, and much of it is hopelessly incorrect when compared with the knowledge we reconnect with when communicating with higher-self.
IN this respect Hawk was very correct.
About the reasons provided to illustrate the doubt-source of channelings... while this may be the case for some people, it cannot be the case for all people. The reason why I distrust most channeled material is because it does not resonate within the Higher-Self that I am.
Channeling has become the buzzword these days, so many people are doing it and even more people want to. Unfortunately, the effort put into learning to channel, for whatever motivation is behind it, could be directed into making and experiencing contact with one's own Higher-Self and the need/desire to channel would no longer be there for them.
Yet, I know that there are channelers out there who do such service to be of service to others and not for their own material gain. These are the genuine workers, the one's who have worked and tested the message providers to know who and what they are really dealing with. These people then provide a necessary service to others who are as yet unable to reach their own higher awareness layers.
So keep up the good work Kyo.
Love Always.
Your guides and helpers are advisors. They don't drive the ship, you do.
There is a big difference between working conciously with your guides (and Higher-Self is a guide in the context I'm writing in), and unconciously working with your guides. When you unconciously work with your guides, they are working on the pre-incarnation game plan. They throw things at you like you asked them to do before coming here. It's a fixed script.
Now when you get to the point of recognising and working with them, then the script becomes dynamic. You can re-write the script at anytime, you are the pilot of the ship. Just as you are journeying through this life, so is your higher-self journeything though it's existance. It's a partnership, not a master/slave existence.
Channelings. Yes, everyone seems to be doing them. Ever wonder about that? It's a lot easier to anymore, that's why. So why don't they resonate all the time? That's easy. Take a 5D or 6D wordless concepts, translate that into human Idioms thorugh a third party and your going ot have syntax and verbage issues. Now take that and read/listen to it for yourself and it's re-interpretted yet again. There is always room for mis-understanding, especially if the core concept is not soemthing your familiar with.
Now, let's talk Divination, or prediciton of the future. Why isn't it 100% accurate? Well, for one, knowledge of the future can change it. Suppose Tayesin get's a message that he's going to die in a car wreck on Wednesday the 19th of January 2005. Now like any of us, he stays home and goes nowhere near a car that day and night. So, the logical conclusion was that the prediction was false, or was it? Time is circular, events that 'never happen' because they were predicted are quite real. And when you throw in Alternate timelines, things get all confusing. Now I pick on Tayesin, because something like this happened to him with a trip to the Akoshic, so was the prediction false, or did a glimpse of the probable future cause him to change things enough to prevent a medical condition from getting out of hand?
Reality is subjective. That's what the big shift is really all about. Right now your locked into a collective reality. You can leave it, but you will have serious problems returning to it until the shift.
There doesn't appear to be any discord between people who believe in channeling and those who do not.
Those who do not believe in channeled spirits say that the channelers are "making things up in their thoughts" or are "imagining things."
The channelers usually deliver messages like, "thoughts are real," and that "imagination is real," in the context that we choose them and that they affect the world through our actions.
So when a channeler is accused of imagining things, there should be no disagreement.
Hello, everyone!
I also believe that there is an inflation of channeling today. And not all the sources are reliable. For me this seem to be the major point: whether these messages come from a reliable source or not. Because if it is not, all this information can be harmful and is simply to be avoided, and if it is, then it is to be unconditionally followed, because it comes from a guiding entity which is above our perception. Let's say the source pretend to be the Archangel Michael: either it is really him, and then it is a bit ridiculous to pretend that we can understand so easily the purpose and content of what he is conveying to us, or it is just a fraud and the question arises which kind of person would pretend such a thing :? . Either one who lacks awareness or one who has bad intentions.
The intention and the degree of consciousness seem to me to be very important.
Because seekers will practice all kind of things, than feel bad or mislead or accuse pains or have burns and hives and these should all be clear signs that what they are doing is not the right thing. They say they raise the Kundalini and they are hit, but Kundalini is their individual spiritual mother, it is the projection of the Holly Ghost inside them, why should it want to hit unless hardly insulted?
The group which practice channeling and which I trust are the Lightworker, because their messages have very good vibrations and the feeling I get reading them or putting my attention on them is of love and peace. I don't feel neither disturbance nor insecurity, but innocence of those people and the truth of their Group. But there are also many sources I encountered which are really ill meaning and fake and harming.
Another method I really trust is this Sahaja Yoga meditation I've been practicing for some years. (And I was wondering if someone here has heard about it or tried it, I'd be really glad to talk about this). I benefited by this technique much more than I could express in words. This is not actual channalising, is more meditation under the guidance of an enlighten, self realised person, with the purpose of awakening the Kundalini and getting self realisation. As I understood, channalising does not have this immediate purpose, it's rather preparing individuals for the event of some collective happening. Though I might be wrong, it might be the same? Is it?
Another experience I enjoyed much in the last month was meeting a Christian priest who has seen many times the Virgin Mary in his life time, she has effectively saved his life a few times. Once she appeared to save him when he had been arrested by communists and sent in kind of an extermination camp, and she literally showed him the way out and the accompanied him while living in a cave for about ten years. I mean, really she was there for him, in long winter nights, when he had almost nothing to eat and... And I believe him, because I went with some friends to meet him and we felt incredibly good during this and after, like lost in peace and gratitude that such people exist. And on a physical level I felt good after going there. That place and that saint gave us all that feeling on increased consciousness. I suppose this is also a kind of channeling, because he head his life under her complete guidance and in absolute surrender, and has also influenced many people. Also, she gave him a short prayer to convey to all those asking help from him. He calls her 'God's Mum' :wink: !
I suppose it is necessary to have such people around, after all the entire human evolution has been lead through the arrivals of special masters or divine persons. At least those who founded the great religions had a irreplaceable role to play.
About personal divination: I've heard someone saying that if we are supposed, let's say, to die on one particular day, and if we get self realisation the day before, than this event of death is neutralized, it won't happen. Because karmas are being modified or erased. :D :D :D :D It could be! I like this idea, anyway! That we are not so much slaves, anyway!
I suppose that people who have gone in their awareness beyond duality and conditionings can make their thoughts become reality. Like bringing the ideal pure world of their consciousness into what we call real life.
I wonder what dictates whether a person can percieve these beings, their guides or any other such helpers/guides/higher self etc? Or what dictates relative ignorance no matter what?
A couple of years ago, I met an obviously deeply disturbed person who told me all about the material she channeled. She said that her purpose in life was to bring about the end of the world as soon as possible. In the end, after hearing that I had some doubts about accepting everything she said at face value, she decided that she hates me. Fortunately, she does not have to do anything about it because in her own little world she has already finished me off for all of eternity.
It is not a question of how reliable material is because it has been channeled. It is more a question of how capable I am of evaluating the material. Anything that I cannot evaluate is probably best set aside until something changes and it is within my abilities to evaluate it.
Yea, it's a matter of discretion. I entirely agree with it!
Basically we have an inborn capacity of sensing danger and negativity, we just have to use it. But sometime we neglect it.
Through Kundalini awakening one will start feeling the vibrations of a particular person, or book or place, so will have the vibratory awareness to decide weather something is good or bad, but until we get to that stage, nothing precludes the use of common sense. I mean, we follow persons with an ideal behavior. Why follow someone who desires destruction or hates?
A master - disciple relation is like wanting to have reflected within yourself the ideal qualities of the master. Because, being a self realized person, the master is a pure reflection of the higher self. Actually this relation is a mere technique of drawing the attention onto some enlightened behavior patterns. If one's attention is not subtle enough to perceive these patters at the level of his own higher self, so this person needs to see them reflected on a more exterior level: and that's the master. That's how I understand the necessity for this relation. When our attention becomes subtle/enlightened enough, we become our own masters, and we will channelize our own messages. Actually there is no place left for channelizing, because there is only one self! :wink:
Rastus,
:P
That was the best post of your's that I have had the pleasure to read so far. Seriously. I've watched you grow so much and it is inspiring to see you have found the most effective words to put across what you have to share.
:D
I'd be deeply distrustful of a channeling if it cost me 90 dollars a pop too.
(information taken from kyo's link in the top of their post)
Hello:
Many people fail to realise that it is quite possible to alter your perception in consciousness, but not necessarily alter your area of consciousness. From my experience, it would appear there are many people who believe they are engaging within an energy exchange, or "channeling" as is the latest buzzword, but in fact they are engaging in their own belief constructs.
Virtually anyone can allow themselves an openness within consciousness and allow their own beliefs to be freely expressed. But they are not "channeling" in the true sense, as they are merely exchanging energy within themselves.
Yours,
Frank
Frank, how can you get away with saying that while still insisting that everything in the universe is made up of consciousness?
Telos:
And not just everything in this universe but EVERYTHING that is in every other universe both physical and "non-physical" is made up of elements of consciousness.
But I think the issue here is a complication caused by the fact that, as human beings, we also term the ability to think independently as being "conscious". Which has nothing to do with it. Well, you could say it is connected, in a manner of speaking. Elements of consciousness make up everything, as I say, so they are not only the driving force behind matter and action, they are matter and action also. But our general use of the word "conscious" tends to create an unfortunate mix in terms which causes confusion.
If you feel the above doesn't answer your point then please expand on your question and I'll be happy to explain further for you. Areas of consciousness and how the universe was constructed has been a pet topic of mine for a while now.
Yours,
Frank
Frank, how did you discover this information?
It's fascinating like everything else you write, but how did you learn about everything being made up of elements of consciousness? It's usually so hard for me to get my head around many of the things you write. So much of what you write is so different to what I'd thought before.
Potatis
Potatis:
Like I've said before, all this info is within you, all you need do is ask yourself. I don't know whether it's just me, but I am dead curious about how all this came about. I was reading on another post the other day about where a member was asking for good places to "astral project" to. Now, I'm not knocking this but merely using it as a comparison. Each to their own, ultimately.
But he had listed such places as a strip-club, and an Iranian nuclear installation. Like I say, maybe it's just me, but I would never think of projecting to any of these places. I enjoy being around women, I think they are utterly delightful creatures and some of the most joyous times in my life have been spent naked with one. But with me it has to be a "special" one, otherwise nothing works. Likewise with nuclear installations. If someone made a rule the only place you could project to in future was a nuclear installation, foreign or otherwise, then I'd give the whole thing up, nothing would work, I'd lose the ability. Do you see what I mean?
What really turns me on is finding out how all this came to be. But more to the point, how "I" came to be. Which is why I keep on doing it. And in finding out how I came to be, I'm finding out how everyone else came to be too, and how the planet was formed and all kinds of things like that.
That's the key to all of this. First you've got to study yourself, find out all your own motivations, your desires, your intents, your core beliefs. You've got to start noticing yourself *continually*. Monitoring every thought, every feeling, every reaction that takes place within you, and keep asking yourself WHY you think the way you do, and WHY you feel the way you do, etc., etc. keep doing this and, slowly but surely, you will start breaking through to the very core of your own Self.
But people generally don't do this. They think of Spirituality as a notion they objectify. They start learning techniques and methods and such like from books as if they were learning to pass an exam, following which they get a certificate saying they are now a "spiritual being". We are all spiritual beings already! No one person is any more or any less spiritual than any other! There is no such thing as spiritual knowledge, they are just belief constructs that we at one time created for the purposes of our experience.
But people have moved on since those days. Today, many of us have realised there is only one "knowledge" and that is, knowledge of SELF. Being "spiritual" has got nothing to do with being a Buddhist, or a monk, or whoever/whatever, it's got nothing to do with praying 5 times a day, or giving away all your worldly goods and living a life as a hobo. Being spiritual is simply about widening your awareness in order to incorporate all aspects of your own Self. In other words, "spiritual" is not something you learn about, it is something you become. Your physical self actually becomes a different focus of consciousness. It gradually becomes this different focus of consciousness as you learn to incorporate the wider aspects of your Self.
Once you do this, everthing else begins falling into place. Because, ultimately, it is all connected (there is no separation in consciousness). So really it boils down to asking yourself the right kinds of questions. I remember the day years ago when I sat down and asked myself, seriously, where did I come from? And I occupied my mind with that sole question for about a year.
Slowly but surely, over that time the answer began realising itself. Okay, I was fairly proficient at projection at the time as well. But I still believe the answers would have come to me the same (I wouldn't see that as a barrier, for there are no barriers in consciousness).
Yours,
Frank
Brilliantly said Frank.
:D
If you ever have get to the point where you are conciously working with aspects of yourself, all kinds of horizens widen. We unconciously do it all the time. But to conciously create, or conciously co-create as the catchpharse goes, is to start experiencing your life in your true form. To live your physical life as you live your non-physical one(which is what the Ascension is all about anyway).
I always like the Analogy We were created in God's image, which is litterally true. The key is to realise that body your wearing isn't your true form. It is the form your currently holding, with help I might add, and it is but an aspect of all that you are. You have the ability to change that form, to heal or harm it to great lengths. You also have the ability to transcend that form, to bring more aspects of Self into it until you reach the point being all that you are and still 'in the flesh'.
Thanks Frank, I do understand. What you said reminds me of exactly the same thing that some spirits said in a couple of the Leslie Flint seance recordings I have. As soon as you start to think "Who am I?" and "What am I doing here?", immediately your consciousness becomes raised, and you are guided by people in the spirit world who love to help.
In fact so much of what you and others write was said in Leslie Flint recordings 30 - 40 years ago. So much detail of what is in the afterlife is described, and corresponds with things people such as yourself discover first hand through obes.
Charlotte Bronte and Oscar Wilde talk about inspiration that people receive from the spirit world when their consciousness is raised.
A guy who died in a motorcycle accident talks about spending his time in the afterlife doing retrievals, and describes how it can be hard to convince people they are "dead", and they must move on.
Another man talks at length about his time in a belief zone. He was religious and he describes how he was eventually "rescued" from this belief zone once he allowed himself to raise his awareness and stop shutting himself off from people trying to help him. He thought he was in "heaven" and didn't want to leave that place, at least until he did and he realised that he was in a belief zone.
There is no God as humans imagine. God is described as the main "Force" in the universe, not a person-like being. A part of this force is in all of us, so there is a part of "God" in us all. We judge ourselves after death. And there is no hell. This is repeated a lot. If there is a hell, it is created by man himself.
Another thing that is talked about is thought creating reality, even here on earth.
Charlotte Bronte even talks about on some spheres, characters from books and whole plots are performed from people's imaginations when reading books in the physical. When millions of people are reading a particular book, the characters manifest quite solidly, though they have no real soul of their own. Thought forms are written about here.
These things are written about here in the forums, yet they were recorded on tape as long as 40 years ago. There are lots more examples too. I think it's fascinating to read people having first hand experience of all this, without even knowing who Leslie Flint was, or about the many hundreds of recordings of people in the spirit world.
Potatis
PS, if anyone's interested in Leslie Flint they can go here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ewichm/deathnoe.html
http://www.tanika.com/flint.htm
http://www.leslieflint.com/
How the spirits could talk by Betty Greene who helped make the recordings for many years:
http://www.freewebs.com/afterlife/flint/greenetranscript.htm
Free full recordings, though some not great quality here:
http://freewebs.com/afterlife/flint/flintrecordings.htm