Spiritual use of drugs

[Blossom]

As a non-drug user it is hard for me to be objective here but I will offer my opinion.  

My own feelings in exploring the astral and doing it high or straight are this:  Anyone can have a trip but it doesn't mean it is astral in nature.  One way to always be sure is to always be straight...  theres also an element of control involved which is important.  Control, I would think, would be easier to achieve if straight and not high no matter who uses it.  

Hope no offense was taken..
Blossom

Just wanting to learn....

[James S]

Hi Ben,

Big can of worms to open up! Don't be surprised if you get a lot of very strong opinions here, but bear in mind they are just that - opinions, derived from personal understandings or experiences. They will tend to be quite one sided, and in that you should still search your own heart on the matter.

The increased possibility of neg attack during drug use is more a logical perspective than outright fact. The less control you have over your situation the less able you are of defending yourself if you are attacked.

Robert Bruce writes in an authoritative manner based on his experiences. He has provided a lot of valuable help to those who have found themselves in similar attack situations to what he has experienced, but this does not make him the ultimate source of truth on the subject, and such attacks do not happen to everyone. This is why I say IF you are attacked, not you WILL be attacked. Always remain mindful though that it can happen.

Though you might want to seek out Tisha for information on Shamanism, as she is well informed in this area, I believe you are essentially correct that Shamans do you use certain psychotropic drugs to assist their spiritual work.
Remember though that these people have many years of training and experience, so they know how to use these drugs as a useful tool.
A trained doctor can do a great deal of good with a scalpel, but would you want a small child to be trying to use one?

Blossom is right in what she said about remaining in control. It might be easier to gain faster acces to the astral using drugs, but ultimately you will be doing yourself a disservice, because as long as you are relying on drugs for assistance  the "trip" will control you, and you won't learn how to properly gain control yourself. I'm not innocent here. I have tripped a few times, some have been pleasant, others have not. For that reason I tend now to err on the side of caution.

I do use much milder substances though for extended medititation, such as incense, or Frankincense in an oil burner. Frankincense is said to be good for raising spiritual awareness, but other than that It smells nice and helps set the atmosphere.

Good journeys,

James.

[goku22]

Cool, I'm glad I didn't get any "Don't do drugs because they're stupid!" kind of response.  Blossom, I agree with you about control and of course no offense was taken, I'm not a frequent drug user myself, I only had pot when I was working at this ranch in Idaho during the summer, I'm just curious. James, that was a VERY good post, thank you very much for writing it. Here are my thoughts. I agree that the shamans are pretty much Harvard grads when it comes to psycoactive plant usage, they aren't playing around, they have experience doing what they do, and it's never just for fun. They are the example that all people who decide to do drugs should try to emulate. I also agree that you're doing yourself a disservice by taking the easy road. The only thing that still makes me want to do careful experimentation is this, when one has a mystical experience with drugs it's easier to get back there without them than to start from scratch.  You have a rough map to work with, at the very least you know what it feels like so you could just meditate on that feeling until you go back. I feel that for me personally, the mixed road of VERY CAREFUL and well researched experimentation and determined sober effort is a valuable one that feels right in my core. That's the real reason I wish to experiment, it feels "right", there's really nothing more to it for me.  Ben

[Michael Ghostwolf]

Don't do drugs because they're stupid! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

I tend to look at drugs and mystic experiences as uncompatable. Only because we are searching for truths in whatever realm we may be in, and many substances can corrupt the validity of whatever experience we may have.

$0.02

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

[goku22]

[Rob]

Goku!
Likewise I haven't been around here much of late but posts about drugs always seem to catch my eye http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>
Apart from long term use, drugs probably won't do you any harm. Long term (ab)use and spiritual development, these are not compatible, but you are spot on with the "map" thing - once you experience a certain state of being/mind/etc on drugs (or whenever) it does make it easier to find it again when sobered.
As for being more susceptible when high, this does make sense, though I have never noticed it directly. I might have just been looking in the wrong direction (ie direct style attack rather than heavy influence).
Some people experience sudden devastating psychological changes with drugs, but only generally the harder stuff like acid and those people are always unstable to begin with, and very rare. People can also die crossing the road....
Experiment and learn I say, I really love drugs sometimes. IMO stuff like shrooms is heaven-sent, FOR us to play and experiment with. Ketamine is also veeeery intereesting, fun too. I also have a bag of *6 salvia waiting at home but haven't felt moved to really try it yet, had one bong hit and it did sweet FA. Make sure if you try it you get something stronger than normal ie *1, I have spent ages trying to get effects from that stuff in the past and noticed very little. But this differs from person to person. I have actually only been mildly "high" (not appropriate term here) on salvia once, and it was ummmm........not particularly great, but need to do more experimenting. It opens up portions of your mind that you don't regularly see.

love
Farmer Rob http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

[goku22]

Hey Inguma, thanks for responding. I still haven't gotten my Salvia from the Sage Wisdom shop on the internet, I got the plain old leaves from Mexico, so it might not have an effect at all, but I don't mind smoking a whole bunch to get the effect, I got a little Aqua Pipe thing, it's awesome, small and portable. I'm not going to smoke it until I go to my job at Angel Fire Ski resort in NM because there will be people there that could be my sitter, none here in Prescott. I don't want to do anything that isn't grown from the dirt, I feel that the plants and mushrooms that are psycoactive are that way for a reason, but lab stuff is just made by whoever without some higher purpose to it. They also have alot of BAD side effects, no thanks, they also just have a gross feeling in my mind when I think of them. You're right about the long term use, these plants may have been put here by whatever created all this for us humans to catch a glimpse of "something else",  to further our progress, but they sure aren't meant for us to focus solely on them and not real life.  Ben

[goku22]

Hey everyone, I haven't been here in a few months, time to get back into it. I was wondering about drugs because I've been readin PPSD and Robert talks about how they can increase the likelyhood of neg attack. I was wondering specifically about the spiritual use of so called "teacher plants" like Salvia Divinorum, Psylocybin cubensis (sp?) (obviously not a plant), peyote, and cannabis.  Shamans in Mexico and other places around the world have been using these and others for millenia to assist in spiritual development, healing, and journeys into the other world to gain wisdom. My gut instinct tells me that this is not a negative thing, that with the right "set" and "setting", to use the common terms for your state of mind and environment, it is possible to have fufilling, spiritual experiences that would only make your resistance to neg influance stronger. What are your thoughts? Thanks.  Ben