I think you're right on some level. I also realized when I tried to move a pen with my mind I dont think ill ever believe that theory.
I really want to believe I can move something wiht my mind but I cant help feeling like a fool. And since the theory is you have to KNOW and not just think "maybe"... I dont think ill ever know.
I do wish it was true though. I already try going through life knowing its not as "real" as it seems. Meaning since there's so much more out there this is just a little tiny piece of reality. I really would love to get to the point where Im more detached from the reality here. But then again I think we might not learn lessons if we realize its only a dream.
Are there limits?
I was a hardcore atheist most of my life. I didnt believe ANYTHING I couldnt detect with eyes, ears, science, etc, and I never did. For some weird reason, I felt like it might be possible to do telekinesis (no faith here) and it felt good when I tried to do it, so I did. Eventually I did it and got it on video. That satisfied my scientific mind so I could investigate other "illogical" things.
You're right that you are here to learn lessons while you're ignorant. I have reasons for knowing what I do. This is my absolute last "reincarnation". I have been in and outside of my spirit to verify this (focus level 35).
"Are there limits?"
There are definitely limits on the lower levels. I dont know about higher. Some things will be unlimited like speed.
beav31is,
I fully agree with your theory. I've always tried to live by that, but I've never really seen it much. But using metaphysical knowledge, you can use logic to come to this theory.
I like your explanation of why it is difficult too. Society has a big impact on the world. In fact, it completely controls and governs it.
I think this is exactly what The Matrix is about too. He finally realizes you can do anything if you escape from society.
Sometimes just one paranormal or unusual event will open a door to an entire new universe. To your credit, beav31is, your experiments with TK created that door and you seized the opportunity to go through it.
Many people choose to ignore the door when it appears to them (via lucid dream or accidental OBE or whatever). This refusal to accept the reality of the larger universes can result in permanent skepticism.
It's important to at last consider the validity of other peoples' reports. Even if the majority of people are lying or are hallucinating that still leaves hundreds or thousands of factual True experiences.
If any of you are going to try affecting this reality as if it were a dream (like telekinesis), you cant use your brain because it has no power. Instead, use your spirit.
I think your right beav31is! This 'reality' is really just a dream, a very believeable one.
I once couldn't sleep for days and I achieved perfect mind over matter, then one day I tried turning off a street light like I would in a dream and it happened! I then tried turning off other street lights and it happened! but then I started to sleep again and I lost the ability :(
It sucks how much control everybody else has on us. They should mind their own business. I'e lost my powers temporarily for a few days, but I'll get them back! I've done it before.
3 thoughts on reality is a dream.
Thought 1. Sure it is! That explains many things previously unexplained and opens doors to ideas that we cannot yet even dimly comprehend.[:)][?]
Thought 2. Maybe reality is a dream. The analogy between reality and dream is like that of science to religion. They both exist yet seemingly they are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Future breakthroughs and understanding will be needed to reconcile the two and merge them into One.[?][8)]
Thought 3. No Way Jose. The only similarity between reality and dream is that they are both perceived by Mind (and brain). Yet there are many states of consciousness. Dream conscious may border upon waking reality (and other states of consciousness) but it is Not the same.[V]
Personally I am undecided on this issue but presently lean toward though 3.
Well, im not too sure, because in our dreams it could just be hinting or sort of telling us how to use our abilitys. I once read somewhere that a long time ago before we were homosapien that we used our psychic abilitys to survive, dreams we have might be trying to tell us how to use them. If it was a dream why would we need to sleep at all? Why would we die at an almost set time? Why do we have so much control over what we do? Why do we get hurt and not be able to fix our injury with thoughts?
and when i say before we were homosapien i mean before the human race evolved to homo sapienm, i forgot to add that on accidnet.
"Well, im not too sure, because in our dreams it could just be hinting or sort of telling us how to use our abilitys."
Dreams are a good place to do that.
"If it was a dream why would we need to sleep at all?"
biology
"Why would we die at an almost set time?"
Walk naked in dark alleys with a liquer bottle, an unloaded gun, a bag of cocaine, and a fat wallet and you'll see how set it is.
"Why do we have so much control over what we do?"
You can have the same control in a normal dream. Here, you dont have as much control as you think. Choose to eat a live spider. Its not allowed by your dna.
"Why do we get hurt and not be able to fix our injury with thoughts?"
You could if you were skilled enough. This is a weird dream where other people have as much control as you, and they think you cant do that. It would be easier if they arent paying attention to the injury when you do it.
when we awake what are we? are we going to lose everything we cared for in this dream?
By set time i mean sorta like everyone dies in there 60s- early 100s of old age. I would have to say this has to more then a dream because some stuff happens that wouldnt be in a dream, such as elderly people having problems walking and deadly diseases such as cancer. Also, why are we here for so long, 60+ years seems too much for a dream, that would mean everything that happened is in some way fake or never happened.
"when we awake what are we?"
A white/clear oval shaped ball of energy with incredible power.
"By set time i mean sorta like everyone dies in there 60s- early 100s of old age."
The "laws" of physics are part of the dream. They are responsible for predictability.
"Also, why are we here for so long, 60+ years seems too much for a dream,"
bigger dreams for things of bigger intelligence
"that would mean everything that happened is in some way fake or never happened."
Dreams are not fake.
Are you using the word 'dream' as a metaphor, or the literal sense?
literal. Hard to believe, but its true.
I accept it as a metaphor - that we can accomplish anything within our mind's capacity, as we do in dreams, but i do not believe that we are "asleep in life's waiting room" or anything like that.
I believe there is sleep, which we all take part in, where we conjure up complex fantasies or try to discover truths about ourselves. I believe we have our waking state, where a vast amount of people are bound to social laws by their mind and it's inability to break down barriers. I don't believe that i am dreaming right now though.
Sure, it's possible, but, at the moment, i lean towards the 'no' side.
You can believe what you want, but "as a metaphore" is not what this thread is about.
Its not the same kind of dream. Its a group dream. Everybody controls it, and right now they want it to be a predictable physical place so it is.
If I asked you while you were in a "normal" dream if you were dreaming, you would probably say no, so if earth is a dream, you probably wouldnt know. If you answered yes while in the "normal" dream, your answer would be based on earth not being a dream. They are too different to be the same thing, you think, and since everybody here says this place is real I'll believe them... It seems solid enough. Maybe solid is a sign of illusion and you've been tricked. How do you know they arent reversed, earth being a fantasy and dreams being reality? How do you know either one is real? I think they both are. Astral (where dreams are) is more flexible. It could contain both dreams and earth. It can contain just about anything. Physical "reality" cant contain astral, but some things from astral are here, like telekinesis and ghosts. Can they exist in a reality incompatible with their own? Dont take this on faith. You wouldnt learn anything. Just think about it.
quote:
Originally posted by beav31is
"Why do we get hurt and not be able to fix our injury with thoughts?"
You could if you were skilled enough. This is a weird dream where other people have as much control as you, and they think you cant do that. It would be easier if they aren't paying attention to the injury when you do it.
When I was working in a summer program with children and they fell and grazed themselves, if you as the knowledgeable figure go over to them and say that's nasty and take them to hospital it will still hurt for them. But if you say "Whoops, that was a funny thing to do, give it a rub and then off you go and you'll be fine" they seem to be fine in minutes. This is what I learnt during my time there and it was surprisingly effective. I understand you could easily argue against it but it is a possibility.
Oh my god!!! Something just hit me!!!
THINK ABOUT THE PLACEBO EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for the capitals but the very though excited me. For those of you who do not know about the placebo effect it is something that scientists (psychologists in particular) use to explain why something happens to a subject even when nothing has been done to them, they just think it has.
In my yr 12 textbook I read of a experiment done to determine the effect of alcohol on human's when driving. One group of people where given real alcohol to enjoy and then involved in a driving test. Another similar group were told that they were drinking real alcohol but really it was just a sugar drink that tasted somewhat like alcohol. Another group were just asked to take the driving test.
The results were as follows.
The group that had no drink did fairly well.
The group that were given alcohol did considerbly worse.
The group that were given the placebo (They thought they were drinking alcohol) also did worse than the group that didn't drink![:O]
They thought they were drunk and so they drove drunk!!! Just because they believed that they were really drinking alcohol they strongly believed they would really get drunk and in the end they actually became drunk effectively.
See what I mean. What a revalation![:O]
Their belief became their reality.
Glad I got that out of my system. I was actually supposed to post something else but I'll put that in the next post so that people realise it's not a direct continuation.
Wow, this is all very interesting. I actually read an article in a 'New Scientist' magazine that was stating that it's possible that maybe this world was created by other beings and stuff like this. It mentioned that write now we almost have enough technology to shape the weather as we desire (It just costs a hell of a lot for money for small results). If humans can achieve this then why couldn't another civilisation create worlds and universes with all their technology. You will notice this article was very technologically based. But it is still a possibility that something similar has occurred.
Maybe we are all test subjects being observed by some other race, maybe not, it is not that important. What is important is that there is more we can do then the majority of us currently know we can do.
I believe the Matrix movie's are very enlightening, the way I see it is that 'In the Matrix' is similar to us in our dreams (maybe not astral planes and stuff though but nevertheless). Neo has very little trouble manipulating the Matrix after he discovers it is possible and BELIEVE'S it is possible, like Morpheus says "He is starting to believe". It can be similar to how we think of Lucid dreams. Most people experience their dreams and just watch them go by, like how most of the people in the Matrix live their life. But for those of us who KNOW and BELIEVE the existence of Lucid dreams, we actually take control of these dreams and manipulate them in which ever way we want. As we see Neo has mastered the Lucid dreaming ability and like most of us here can only do it in his dreams(matrix) well he is just 'human' in the 'real world'. BUT (Warning spoiler for matrix reloaded up in next sentence if you haven't already seen it) in the Matrix reloaded we have Neo at the end of the movie manipulating his surroundings in the "Real world". He brings through the skills he has learned in his dreams and applies them to his physical realm. Effectively you could say he uses telekinesis, he can do it because he realises he can.
Some people say they can do telekinesis in our physical world and I believe that there is a lot of things that the majority of the population don't know.
Most of us will have heard the saying (If you've studied a bit of Psychology anyway), "Our perception determines our reality". In our lives we have been told that in our dreams, anything can happen. As you've probably noticed, anything does. But we have also been told that in the waking world everything obeys the laws of physics such as gravity etc. and thus through the combined power of everybody's beliefs these things become our reality. We perceive things to be this way and so they appear this way. We see what we believe we will see.
But what if we could change our perceptions.
What if we believed what was originally impossible, was possible.
What if we gave ourselves the power to determine our own reality.
What if tomorrow the war could be over (oops, matrix quote)
No doubt some of us here already are shaping their reality. We have people here doing telekinesis. That's right, moving objects in no manner explainable be the laws of physics. Not explainable by the world's regular 'perceptions'. These people are beginning to realise that they have the power to do whatever they believe is possible.
As I right all these words I can fell my mind spinning and changing as it tries to understand the implications of these words. To it, none of this fits with what it knows. But I keep coming up with arguments they contradict what it knows, throwing it into turmoil, presenting it with a choice. The red pill or the blue pill. To either believe that there is more out there than we know, to discover the truth. Or to go back like it never heard any of this stuff, back to the world governed by the laws of the universe (Which humans created, along with the laws of physics).
With the power of all of our minds on this forum believing something is possible, it is providing my mind with the possibility. From possibility I can derive Belief. From Belief I can began to Know. To know the truth. To essentially, make my own truth, my own perceptions of how things are.
As I look around my study after writing this I see that nothing quite seems as solid as it used to appear. If I observe the gap between two objects I see the space between them bend and flex, changing the distance between them. How is this possible? I don't know but I am ACCEPTING that it is possible! It could be really happening.
As you can see it is beginning.
"He is starting to believe"
Jazzarati
PS: Also thanks Beav31is, without reading this thread and your idea I would have not really relaised this stuff.[^]
Jazzarati "Their belief became their reality."
That happens a lot.
"If I observe the gap between two objects I see the space between them bend and flex"
I have seen this a few times. I wish I could see it more often. You are thinking in the right direction.
"What if tomorrow the war could be over"
Be careful not to interfere with the way earth is controlled now. Its controllers wont like it, and they probably know more psychic stuff than you.
"The red pill or the blue pill."
Give me 2 red pills. Throw that blue bottle away. I dont need it anymore.
PS: I'm happy you learned so much from me. Its important to let the other humans (if they're ready) know where they are, cause they probably wont figure it out on their own.
Wow, if I didn't know better I'd say my vision is playing tricks on me. I mean if I sit in my chair idly not thinking about anything while looking at my screen I can see it seemingly grow slightly larger. Sometimes it seems to drift sideways or down. But whe I actively try to comprehend what I have seen, it looks like it has not moved, there are no marks on the table etc.
hmmm... we shall see...[:D]
Interesting topic discussion.
Well let me tell you this is a dream. In the famous 'Gita' Lord Krishna stated that everything is a dream and realising it is our destiny.
Now many of you argue that dream is used as a metaphor. This is wrong. First of all you do not know what a dream is. Dream is an illusion. It is said that the Universe is an illusion. It is 'MAYA'. Now many of us relate this dream with the dreams that we have. Sure they are illusions. Some say why don't we get born and die in our dreams. This is difficult to explain but it is because our Dreams are like Demo's of a full version. They are like practice grounds or just a piece of reality just like I said 'Demo's of a Full Verion'.
Everyone has th capability to do anything. We just have to practice and know that it can be done. For Example how does a baby start to walk. First of all he see's people walking and knows that it can be done. Then he tries to move his limbs and hands and thus gradually cradles. Then after some practice he can stand and ultimately walk. Same with speech. So if this proceadue would have been put up for realising reality as a dream or to do any other kinesis, we would have been Neo till now.[8D]
I hope now everyone knows the meaning of Dream and why is reality a dream.
Well if anybody has any questions just post them.
Cya...
Think theres defintly something to this. I have a ton to say so its going to take me abit. Will post back in abit.
Cheers.
quote:
Why is it harder? Because there are many people controlling it with their thoughts, and they think the laws of physics always work, we cant fly without wings, etc.
Well this would be quite strange i think, as it supposes that at one moment everyone at the same time decided to
invent the same laws of physic from
nowhere and to apply them without reason. I don't see any good reason for this ... If you can fly you fly, you don't suddenly decide that there is a law that prevent you from this as you have done it all your life.
But this problem of knowing if life wasn't a dream is a constant in many philosophies and religions. Indeed, for exemple in hinduism, reality is Maya, the Illusion, and is only a kind of dream of the ego to prevent him from going back to Bhrama, the universal spirit (roughly said). Philosophers have come to the conclusion that this reality couldn't be another dream, for a simple reason : all my senses agree to describe the same thing at the same moment (not like in a dream, where some senses are even "shut down"), also everything is constant and stable, it doesn't change at each second, there are laws that are independant from us and a logical time. Also we need to eat, etc to survive, which doesn't exist in dreams, where we cannot die really. Thus reality is very different from dreams, and not a special type of dream neither.
The problem of psy-faculties has nothing to do with this btw, as there simply come from unknown capacities of our brain or energy body and not by the fact that reality can be altered by us. I have been practicing tk for quite a long time for energy work training and i feel the energy going from me (my hand or forhead) to the object, therefore it's like a direct contact. I'm not thinking things like in matrix, that reality doesn't exist, that everything is possible etc, i'm just doing what i know my body can do. But most of people don't try so they don't know, because they think they'd look like fools, and thus nothing happens. So saying that we can develop psy faculties doesn't mean at all this reality is a dream. It's just that we don't know the power of consciousness on us (like for the placebo effect - it's all in the brain, but it doesn't mean the pain isn't there, just that we are usually overdoing things. It's all about auto-persuading ourselves).
And for those who don't believe me, go to your window and jump, you'll see it's not a easy as in any type of dream :)
I've said it before and I'mm saying it again 'The dreams that we have are like DEMO'S OF A FULL VERSION'. Therefore it will have very less features as the FULL VERSION.
Now my language is Symbolic so don't take the literal meaning.
Now it's up to every person perception to believe it.
Yeah maybe a full-on shared dream is a bit over the top, I was just looking for something to explain why it was harder for someone to do telekenisis when surrounded by dissbelievers than we surrounded by more open-minded people. It was one possiblilty.
But I have being thinking a bit more recently as this as sort of liek a projection to the physical plane maybe, the question is maybe though, what is projecting it?
Well the spirit projects itself.
Projects itself where?
The astral? The physical? Both?
More info please[:)]
Well, actually I don't much about astral projection.
But as much as I think it's upon a person to know whether he has projected into the astral or the physical.
I'll let you know more when I have read the whole article.
Cya...[8D]
I agree with you, Kalonek.
We can make things float or move, not because of this existence being a dream, but because it is an innate ability of the mind to do these things without the use of our limbs. People just don't realise this.
Physical existence is made up of matter. I'm no scientist of any sort (i failed science in yrs 9 and 10), but i've people describe theories where this matter is energy and if this is true then, with the right amount of mind power, anything is truly possible, whether this is a dream or not.
Now, just to further clarify the definition of a dream, are the people who are saying this a dream saying that a dream is simply a state where we are unaware of something (in this case, life)?
If that's so then i agree, and the first paragraph does too. That's the goal of enlightenment, isn't it? To break away from the boundaries and the lies, to discover the power of the mind, the truth?
But, if you're actually saying that what we are percieving isn't real, that the objects we touch aren't really there then i'd have to disagree for now.
quote:
Originally posted by Euphoric SunriseI agree with you, Kalonek.
Well same for me, i totally agree with you too [;)]
Euphoric Sunrise "We can make things float or move, not because of this existence being a dream, but because it is an innate ability of the mind to do these things without the use of our limbs."
I agree it has that ability, but WHY?
"Physical existence is made up of matter."
What is matter made of?
"people describe theories where this matter is energy and if this is true then, with the right amount of mind power, anything is truly possible, whether this is a dream or not."
Assuming a mind has enough power, it would also need the ability to control what the energy does at a distance. Methods other than using energy could exist to change things.
"Now, just to further clarify the definition of a dream, are the people who are saying this a dream saying that a dream is simply a state where we are unaware of something (in this case, life)?"
A dream is a place made of thoughts.
"But, if you're actually saying that what we are percieving isn't real, that the objects we touch aren't really there then i'd have to disagree for now."
It is real.
i haven't read through the entire thread yet, just wanted to point out something:
if you ever wonder whether you are in a dream, you will KNOW. right now, you ask yourself if you are dreaming. unless you are very confused, you will say "no". when you are dreaming, if you ask yourself whether you are dreaming, you will definitely say "yes".
tried and true, the only difficulty is getting to the point where you actually ask.
still haven't read the whole thread, but i would like to point out something:
on the second page, starting with kalonek's post, there begins a contest of realities. interesting, and i thought i would point it out.
i would also like to say that all of the realities presented are equally real... which is to say completely real or not real at all.
QuoteOriginally posted by beavis
Euphoric Sunrise "We can make things float or move, not because of this existence being a dream, but because it is an innate ability of the mind to do these things without the use of our limbs."
I agree it has that ability, but WHY?
>>>I really don't know, i'm not a creator. All i know is that i know it's possible to do these things with mind control. The only decent theory i've heard is energy.
"Physical existence is made up of matter."
What is matter made of?
>>>Again, i don't know. Like i said, i'm no scientist. They never asked us that question in science. Like i said, matter could be energy. But then you'll ask what energy is made of. You could go on forever, so i just don't debate how something exists, just that it does or doesn't.
"people describe theories where this matter is energy and if this is true then, with the right amount of mind power, anything is truly possible, whether this is a dream or not."
Assuming a mind has enough power, it would also need the ability to control what the energy does at a distance. Methods other than using energy could exist to change things.
>>>Yep they could, but i've never heard of any.
"Now, just to further clarify the definition of a dream, are the people who are saying this a dream saying that a dream is simply a state where we are unaware of something (in this case, life)?"
A dream is a place made of thoughts.
>>>Thanks.
"But, if you're actually saying that what we are percieving isn't real, that the objects we touch aren't really there then i'd have to disagree for now."
It is real.
>>>Real was a bad word to use. Let we rephrase it. If you're actually saying that what we are percieving is soley a creation of of our minds then i don't agree at the moment.
I hope i made sense [:P]
Greetings,
quote:
While to THE ALL the Universe must be unreal and illusionary, a mere dream or result of
meditation–nevertheless, to the finite minds forming a part of that Universe, and viewing it
through mortal faculties, the Universe is very real indeed, and must be so considered.
To take familiar illustrations, we all recognize the fact that Matter `exists` to our senses–
we will fare badly if we do not. And yet, even our finite minds understand the scientific dictum
that there is no such thing as Matter from a scientific point of view–that which we call Matter
is held to be merely an aggregation of atoms, which atoms themselves are merely a
grouping of units of force, called electrons or "ions," vibrating and in constant circular motion.
We kick a stone and we feel the impact–it seems to be real, notwithstanding that we know it
to be merely what we have stated above. But remember that our foot, which feels the impact
by means of our brains, is likewise Matter, so constituted of electrons, and for that matter so
are our brains. And, at the best, if it were not by reason of our Mind, we would not know the
foot or stone at all.
Kybalion.
I would highly recommend to everyone interested in this topic to read the book. Here is the link
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5512
Regards,
Osiris.
Hmm, while I do agree to some extent that this all might be a dream, I think that to have those thoughts every minute would be dangerous.
For example, you're walking down a street, and you see a person who yells at you for some reason or another. You think: I'm in a dream. This person is not real, so why do I care? Then, with that line of thinking, you could kill the person (hey, this is just a dream, I didn't do anything wrong! you think).
I think you get my point by now. By believeing that this is all a dream, you could hurt people, and not care about them at all. (Like in the Matrix film, they killed police officers and didn't care, because that was a made up reality or something.)
[Spoiler: ending of Matrix Reloaded film] As for the person that talked about the end of the "Matrix Reloaded" film, which I haven't seen, I think that was supposed to show you that their new "real" world might not be "real" after all. Maybe they are stuck in another made up reality.
That was my 2 cents!
-Ater
Euphoric Sunrise ">>>Real was a bad word to use. Let we rephrase it. If you're actually saying that what we are percieving is soley a creation of of our minds then i don't agree at the moment."
Its a creation of your mind OR SOMEBODY ELSE's.
rantboi, I must believe what I think is true. I am not a hypocrite. You must have missed the point that dreams are real. It is still being an moron to kill people in this dream.
Misconception, Misconception...
You have not understoog the meaning of the word Dream.
Don't relate it to your dream at sleep. That is only a very small fraction of the real dream ie. the reality as we call it.
Even you just dont go around killing people when you are dreaming. Such dreams will certainly cause you many nightmares. Now if nightmares can be the aftereffect of killing in dreams and dreams are just a fracton of the real dream ie the reality, then thing what will be the aftereffect of really killing a person.
This is my theory. If you've heard it elsewhere, I havent...
Dream = astral. Spacetime (where we are) is a cross-section of astral. Anything you can do in a dream, you can do here with more difficulty. Why is it harder? Because there are many people controlling it with their thoughts, and they think the laws of physics always work, we cant fly without wings, etc. But I still have some control over this dream. I can do telekinesis and I do it the same way I control dreams. I have had rapid psychic development since I've realized earth=dream. Before, I was confused, not knowing how to proceed, but then I remembered its easy. All I have to do is use dream actions here.