I've read in a lot of books including Robert Bruce's, that there are a lot of different planes, levels/ dimensions above ours. One vibrational level higher is the Real Time Zone, and on top of that one seven planes that vibrate at even higher levels.
But what would it mean if our level of vibration, the " solid " plane, wasn't the lowest one ?
Maybe there's one or more levels BELOW us ! Maybe WE are subjective shadows of people living in the superlowvibrating plane.. ..
Maybe there is an entire universe that's infinitely dense and heavy, and the beings there are unable to move due to there mass, they just are there and they dream , and we live out their dreams...
Yup my imagination is going overdrive ! Any thoughts or additions to this " theory " ?
Hello:
I can understand your line of thought but the physical is an end result and there is nothing "beyond" it.
Yours,
Frank
Your are probably right Frank, but what makes you so sure it's not possible ?
Hello:
Taking about whether it is possible and whether it is are two different things. I suppose it is possible. Ultimately, there are no limitations, only those we place on ourselves for the benefit of our experience. So anything and everything is possible. But when you look at the current reality, the physical is an end result and there is nothing what you might call "beyond" it.
Yours,
Frank
there is a lower plane the second and first dimension just its not what you think
Quote from: GANAMOHAthere is a lower plane the second and first dimension just its not what you think
Yeah I think 2nd dimension would be lower beings of lower consciousness and 1st would be inanimate objects with no consciousness?
QuoteMaybe there's one or more levels BELOW us ! Maybe WE are subjective shadows of people living in the superlowvibrating plane.. ..
Maybe there is an entire universe that's infinitely dense and heavy, and the beings there are unable to move due to there mass, they just are there and they dream, and we live out their dreams...
Yup my imagination is going overdrive ! Any thoughts or additions to this " theory "
Using the vibrational model, there is nothing beyond the state of "absolute zero," or no vibration. Interestingly, such a state would theoretically be timeless, as nothing would move and there would be no events. Since spiritual experiences often relate to an experience of timelessness, you're absolutely right to be asking this question!!
Naturally, the coldest things in nature are in the darkest recesses of outer space. But space is completely filled with "cosmic background radiation," which can be measured at 3 Kelvin above absolute zero. So nothing in our "physical plane," that is, nothing we can observe physically, naturally exists in a state of 0 K, or absolute zero.
This is the amazing part. In laboratories, we've been able to cool gases far lower than 3 K, all the way down to 0.000,000,001 K or a
billionth Kelvin. When matter reaches these low levels, they condense in a very peculiar way, to form a new type of matter called Bose-Einstein condensates (BEC). In this state, electrons, atoms, and quantum particles share the same quantum state and, therefore, the same point in space and time. The result is an extremely dense "super atom."
This is all very recent. BEC were only demonstrated in 1995, earning the researchers the Nobel Prize in 2001. This is leading to a new theory that suggests black holes don't exist. Instead, what we think are black holes are really "gravastars," or BEC super atoms in a graviton vacuum shell, protecting them from cosmic background radiation, allowing them to reach degrees closer to absolute zero. Gravastars would create gamma ray bursts, which black holes are thought to create.
And gamma rays have often been described as an evolutionary agent on Earth, since they cause genetic mutation. Could super atoms be animated by a cosmic intelligence?
No one yet knows what would happen at absolute zero, given our knowledge of BEC. Furthermore, no one knows what would happen at 0.000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,1 K above absolute zero. Maybe another new type of exotic matter results?
"... and 1st would be inanimate objects with no consciousness?"
Hello:
I am sorry to sound directly contradictory, but there is no such thing as an inaminate object with no consciousness.
Yours,
Frank
Really? I'd love to know more about that! :-). I tend to treat most inanimate objects as inanimate, except for vehicles-which I talk to regular :-)
Haha !! Thanks Telos, THAT was the kind of reply i was hoping for. It's so much more fun to speculate then to simply say : " Nah thats not possible "
Well done !
All this stuff about higher dimensions " vibrating " at higher speeds seems rediculous to me anyway. I't svery hard for me to imgaine it. In physics, more , or higher or faster or whatever vibrations just means that stuff gets warmer. If molecules move faster they simply get hot, not extradimensional, right ?!
Don't get me wrong, higher dimensions don't sound that strange to me, it's just the way they are explained that doesn't make a lot of sense. At least not to me.
Thought=Reality, this plane or any other.
What holds a rock together then? Take that to the limit.
Simple concept with staggering implications.
"... Really? I'd love to know more about that!"
Everything within all of reality is ultimately made from the same base material, which is consciousness. We are an expression of consciousness just as much as a piece of rock. The only real difference between a human-being and a piece of rock is Intent.
Obviously, the rock's Intent is to be a piece of rock. Our Intent is, of course, radically different. But the elements of consciousness that go to make up the rock, are no different to the elements of consciousness that make up human beings (and everything else for that matter, both physical and non-physical).
Yours,
Frank
Frank, what's the difference between intention and Intention? (little "i" and big "I")
Hello:
Each cell or molecule within the physical incorporates consciousness. It holds its own purpose, its own function, and cooperates collectively with all the other cells or molecules within the whole expression; whatever that whole expression may be: a human being, an animal of some kind, a rock, and so forth.
Intent, is the potential a physical expression holds to be fulfilling of its value fulfillment, within the pool of probabilities available to it. Personally, I think of this more as a primary intent, that I denote by capitalising the initial letter.
Yours,
Frank
Quote from: Joeriiwhat would it mean if our level of vibration, the " solid " plane, wasn't the lowest one ?...Yup my imagination is going overdrive ! Any thoughts or additions to this " theory " ?
interesting concept ...
a Native American spiritual practice of fire medicine was used
for seekers to go to a lower dimension
to speak to animal totems directly
on a spiritual plane for animal spirit guides
that was supposedly lower than the physical earth
and was located within the earth in the realm of the Earth Mother .
To get there the seeker meditated to the sound of drums which got lower in their volume and deeper in their pitch and slower in their beat
progressively . This slowed the vitals to enter the meditative stance to take the spirit out of the body and into the spiritual realm of Gaia .
This lowered their consciousness and their vibration .
But was it truly a lower dimension ? I cannot say .
I did have a mate take me on a drum journey but i felt it was to a lower plane in the astral
or 4th which is entirely above us or so i am told
.. it would be good to learn more on this i suppose
Did you see the film
Ghost where the dark spirits drag the bad guy thru the floor at the end of the movie ? I have seen ones like this and they are negative dark earthbound energies i feel they do exist at a slower lower vibration .
Interestingly we intimate that
faster moving neat spheres of bright colours are good
and
slower denser dark fuzzy voluminous energies are negative
If they are on a lower vibration are they existing on a lower plane than us ? or just the lowest of the ones above us ?
One theory on the subplanes :
http://www.multidimensions.com/uncon_dreams_travel.html
(
Quotebtw I don't agree with all this site describes but i put it forth to demonstrate other ideas of lower planes )
FOURTH DIMENSIONAL SUB-PLANES
There are seven sub-planes of the fourth dimension. Each sub-plane resonates to a different frequency. The higher sub-planes resonate to higher frequencies and the lower sub-planes resonate to lower frequencies.....
Lower Astral Plane=fear and negative emotions
The Universality of Meditation
"To every man there openeth
A Way, and Ways, and a Way.
And the High Soul climbs the High Way
And the Low Soul gropes the Low;
And in between, on the misty flats,
The rest drift to and fro.
But to every man there openeth
A High Way and a Low,
And every man decideth
The Way his Soul should go."
-John Oxenham
From the bottom up, the four layers are astral, physical, cosmic, and spiritual. The laws of these planes make them appear to be many more. For instance, the cosmic is just made of physical energies, such as magnetism and radiations. Many religions believe in three planes.
However many dimensions make up this spherical universe, I find it possible that there are numerous amounts that we cannot perceive, even with awakened abilities. The reason being, perhaps, because we don't have sensors for them, that we are familiar with. For instance, a being that exists in the height, length, width, time, astral realm(our primary existence), could share time and mind with us, but have three other dimensions which could equate to something totally unlike physicality, that you would have no idea how to understand it. Through the astral dimension though, our souls might be perceived as such, floating about their universe, which overlaps ours, as we walk about our normal lives. Hmm... vibrations would probably be something shared throughout however many dimensions make up the definitions of this very strange place we exist in. I see it as kinda a spider web, with a sphere representing each dimension... with branches splitting off from each sphere to the other dimensions connected to it. Kinda like the bonds between molecules, eh? XD Anyways, I can't say any of this with any certainty, I'm only speculating.... Any thoughts?
PS: Mi taku yasin.
Sensors into any particular dimension are relative to what spirit you are working under - physical, mental, or spiritual.
On televesion, cartoon characters can jump in and out of comic books. That the same is possible in the astral realm does not inicate an infinite number of astral dimensions.
When we watch the TV on the couch, every channel we view is not another dimension, just another part of the same.
In the spiritual realms, where there are say - fruits of the spirit, every intention can unfold into a number of symbolic events. These are all spiritual.
What about Klipoth.. :?
Link: http://www.gnostickabbalah.com/Klipoth/klip%20intro.html
Quote
The Ten Sephiroth are Ten Spheres related with the multidimensionality of the Universe. This is the Tree of Life with its divine attributes, which are explained methodically in Four Manifested Cosmic Systems of Worlds that are called in Kabbalah: Atziluth, Briah, Yetzirah and Assiah.
However, there exists according to Kabbalah the shadow of that Tree of Life which does not manifest any divine attribute, but instead is the opposite of all of the Four Manifested Cosmic Systems of Worlds. This is the world of Klipoth.
I don't know a whole lot about it, but it seemed worth mentioning. Perhaps someone can elaborate..
To be exact, dimension refers to one of the laws/boundaries that define the universe, while universe defines everything in existence. There are many dimensions is what I'm saying. More than just height, length, width, time, and the astral(which is pretty much the combination of all of those, with the mind dimension being most dominant?). I think that the other dimensions though cannot be perceived by us, because we don't have the proper receptors to view them.
Edit: To clarify even more. If you had not the sense of taste, even if awakened, would you know what a taste was, or even how to describe it?
QuoteTo be exact, dimension refers to one of the laws/boundaries that define the universe, while universe defines everything in existence.
I can agree with that. The three existenses would more-or-less be a spiritual heaven, a physical middle ground, and an astral hell, though different regions of each have different properties.
Kabbalistic doublespeak would make long a clarifcation on Qlipoth, and the reply may still not be easily understood by all.
The Tree of Life is a good example of the idea of that cartoon character's jumping in and out of comic book stuff. It is really a system of chakras throughout the astral body, which some people explore by means of works as though the circles on that tree were different worlds.
http://www.spirit-alembic.com/mazloth.html
"Why, as though living in the world, do ye subject yourselves to ordinances, Handle not nor taste, nor touch (all which things are to perish with the using), after the precepts and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but are not of any value against the indulgence of the flesh' - Colossians 2:20-23
What I am trying to say is that there are a series of rituals, etc, which are said to make the Kabalists worthy to explore these places within their own body. By means of will-worship the explorers get to the crown chakra, which is what they would call heaven.
However, there is a real heaven and Jesus is the only way to get there.
In general, the astral realm is associated with the Devil, solar energies, and the will. You get the idea that travel throughout the tree of life is will-enabled, but the places on that tree correspond to chakras. Therefore, I say that it is a map of the astral body.
You could forceably imagine almost anything into existence. This what the old-school Theosophists were referring to when they called the practice of material mediumship "astralism." The lower vibrations of that realm always deplete extra energy from the physical or spiritual plane in order to be raised into existense.
The two halves of the tree represent the two attributes of the Devil. The top is like Lucifer, and the bottom is like Satan.
Pod: True Worship brings true adventure my friend.
Acting in life is an act of will. Introspection is not devil worship. That is if one were to believe in a devil to begin with, but if we were half devil and didn't know it, now that fruit would have really played a trick on us now wouldn't it.
Whats your thoughts on the gnostic cosmology of us being sparks of source suck in matter? The gnosics of coarse being strongly dualistic in their philosophy, believing matter to be purely evil, and spirit purely good.
pharmakeia
Of course there is, how about the dimension of fantasies we create? Fiction, TV, drama, video games, etc. I'll make a dimension out of that any day.
QuoteOf course there is, how about the dimension of fantasies we create? Fiction, TV, drama, video games, etc. I'll make a dimension out of that any day.
Imaginary places would be of the will/mental/astral realm.
QuoteWhats your thoughts on the gnostic cosmology of us being sparks of source suck in matter? The gnosics of coarse being strongly dualistic in their philosophy, believing matter to be purely evil, and spirit purely good.
Again, there is basically a plane of each of mind, body, and spirit, even though there is material we cannot see. The material area is spiritually neutral. Money, sex, food, drugs, etc,etc, are not evil in and of themselves, but of the approach of which they used.
We are not stuck like sparks in matter if you believe the stories of Biblical prophets who were translated into heaven after having become spiritual bodies. Many Christians also believe that they will be raptured up similarly.
In general, qualities of the spirit will cause matter to be elevated while those of the astral will cause it to be denegrated.
Quote from: JoeriiAll this stuff about higher dimensions " vibrating " at higher speeds seems rediculous to me anyway. I't svery hard for me to imgaine it. In physics, more , or higher or faster or whatever vibrations just means that stuff gets warmer. If molecules move faster they simply get hot, not extradimensional, right ?!
Joerii,
IMO, stuff 'vibrating' at higher speeds is just a metaphor, which people use to cover up the fact that no one really knows anything about it. The terms like 'energy' and 'frequency' are borrowed from science in an attempt to describe the unknown in familiar terms, but the result was that people who cant experience these things directly get easily confused.
Above does not indicate that the 'planes' etc is only imaginary, of course. There is some truth in it.
Btw, used in physics the term vibration means that a body is executing periodic motion, i.e the motion traces the same path again and again in a given time. More frequently (faster) it does, more is the frequency, called frequency of vibration.
Now, we know that the atoms and subatomic particles that make up the matter are on move constantly...they vibrate. But you are wrong in saying that the temperature indicates the speed of vibration. Actually, it indicates the kinetic energy of the molecules. And the kinetic energy = (1/2)mv^2, it has nothing to do with the vibration frequency of atoms/particles. So more KE a atom has, faster it moves from one place to another, while vibrating at same speed around its position. Heating is a process of transferring KE from one atom to another via their collisions.
Atomic vibrations occur, even at absolute zero temperature (a quantum mechanical effect) and increase in amplitude with temperature, frequency remaining the same.
It is proposed that there is a form of matter that has entirely different kind of vibrations, called astral matter.
String theory says, that matter subparticles are nothing but multidimensional strings that vibrate in multidimensional space. The frequency of vibration of a string determines the type of particle. So possibility of so called astral matter is real.
In fact there can be a whole universe overlapping ours made up of strings that vibrate differently compared to our worlds known particles.
In continuation to above post, coming back to the question of dimensions..
Again, the term dimension was borrowed from mathematics, where it is used to define the degree of freedom of the quantities being expressed. So a circle is 2D because the equations have a power of 2 in them (x^2+y^2=r^2), and a sphere is 3D because a power of 3 describes it.
The 3D equations corresponds well with the real world, so we call our world as 3D world. Obviously there is no such thing as a 2D or 1D world in reality, if you follow the correct definition of 'dimension'. Even an equation having 100D would only describe something of a real world, and not something of spiritual.
The new-age-ish interpretation of 'dimension' is totally different. Here a dimension corresponds to 'spiritual plane', and just because there are numbers below 3, would not guarantee a plane below the physical plane.
Anyhow, the physical is wrongly called a 3D, its actually 'the first plane', which happens to contain 3D objects perceived during our daily lives. Of course now we know that physical plane is also not strictly 3D, but multidimensional.
But, the possibility of planes 'below' physical remains open, as there are no rules of this game, no proofs, no equations. If you want one create one.... as simple as that :)
Generally speaking, more evolved a soul is, more planes it can perceive. And, given the fact that we are not aware of any planes below the physical, we are least evolved ones, and are on the lowest plane possible. That means we are just starting the evolution and we are a form of most primitive kind of soul.
You can compare ourselves with a single celled organism at the start of life on this planet.
What if there where a lower dimesion than this one ?
than we have a problem
if a gate way is open between us and them then we will be invaded
:shock: :shock: :shock:
There are lower plans, ones in which time changes the flow of a vibration. It's a place in which changing physical location and Physical body's is possible. It is the next step of evolution, conceptualizing on the world beyond, above and below. We are souls, but live because the soul itself cannot separate itself form "energy" the binds of its existence. We live to uncover that link, we must know self as self and make in image of that for the soul to keep and separate essence form the universal. Our conceptions of the world are so small, and pathetic. One must turn to feelings of the soul and trust in them to make the body a use full tool in separation. One place that we have explored in depth is the astral, above us at a higher vibration. The lower vibrations are actually distorted vibrations by time itself, and can only be entered by someone that has separated themselves form the oneness. It is easily seen in memories, that everything is preserved in a specific time and place by our brain, but what does that instant in time represent to our soul? Nothing more then action, movement, our soul watches. Forget what you have read and learned and just look. You'll see that "3D" and Time are but one thing and that Time itself is an object that can be manipulated, changing vibration to a lower under dimension that leads back and away.
I'd just like to say that nothing exists outside of the physical and beyond the reaches of [future] science. It is my belief at least that all these realms percieved as spiritual are just different parts of the one reality, and the difference is the frequency of the vibration.
As we know in music, a note can have an exact same pitch, tone, and note value within the same octive range, and still sound different because of it's timbre, the "flavor" of the note, which is near impossible to describe sometimes. So let us also keep in mind that it may not just be the vibration and frequency of matter and energy which dictates what it is, but it's [equivelent too] timbre, and once that is thrown in, multidimensional theory becomes much more vast in itself.
But to stay on topic, becuase of frequency of vibration it is safe to assume that there are "realms" or "dimensions" lower then the physical. I believe, however, that human travel to them is unlikley. We are evolutionary beings of progression, and the idea that we may lower our vibrational level for some sort of gain is rediculous. There would be no natural mechansim to "regress" becuase we would have never evolved to have it, becuase we only evolve to have abilities which assist our survival in some way. A baseball team trying to win the world series wouldn't spend time practicing how to suck.
Quote from: SethdoodI'd just like to say that nothing exists outside of the physical and beyond the reaches of [future] science. It is my belief at least that all these realms percieved as spiritual are just different parts of the one reality, and the difference is the frequency of the vibration.
This seems like a little contradiction, Sethdood. You said there's nothing outside the physical, followed by saying that spiritual realms are really manifestions of the One All, or God, or whatever.
Quote
But to stay on topic, becuase of frequency of vibration it is safe to assume that there are "realms" or "dimensions" lower then the physical. I believe, however, that human travel to them is unlikley. We are evolutionary beings of progression, and the idea that we may lower our vibrational level for some sort of gain is rediculous. There would be no natural mechansim to "regress" becuase we would have never evolved to have it, becuase we only evolve to have abilities which assist our survival in some way. A baseball team trying to win the world series wouldn't spend time practicing how to suck.
Let me try to explain a little bit from my own understanding of these matters. My opinion of course. The terms higher and lower and faster and slower vibrations can get confusing sometimes, especially considering the illusory nature of physical reality. Meaning that physical life IS physical, but it is not as solid as it looks. On a subatomic level everything is in motion, everything is changing, and everything is born, lives, dies and is born again. All particles have consciousness at the smallest level, the Monads, and everything IS the One All, just at varying degrees of awareness.
The physical level is "lowest" in that it is heavy, with weight and dimension. There is no level that is "lower" or "heavier" or "more" of an illusion to the perception of our Higher Selves. That said, it is possible for knowledgeable persons to effectively "become" one of their constituent simpler elements, whether Air, Earth, Fire or Water, but this takes place on a spiritual level, not physical.
Interestingly enough, a keen imagination is at the core of all magical practice. It's easy to think that anything "weird' is just all made up hooplah anyway. That's the standard explantion in western society anyway, quickly followed by "it's work of the Devil." Not to say that such archdevils don't exist. Anyway, an interesting follow-up to the importance of imagination is that we and all of existense are effectively the "imagination" of Divine Providence, turned inside-out to experience Himself in a way that makes sense to an Infinite and Incomprehensible Intelligence: by purposefully forgetting what It is (Us) and remembering it all over again for the first time, through us. Which is what many people on these boards enjoy doing, pushing the envelope of reality.
just wanna say there are dimensions such as the after life where you pass on to the after life :twisted:
and heaven and hell :twisted:
many religions have there beliefs on nthis as wel such as islam and chrtistianity and buddhismm and et al
Are you guys serious? There are alot of them lower then us.
I'm not going to say how you can go there, but you can. I'm sorry, sometimes I have to remember there are alot of people not as skilled or experienced as me.
I always thought this area was more of a step sideways than up/down...
The questions is valid.
Theoretically there should be no reason why not:
The physical plane, if it is "vibrating" at all ( would be great if this could be measured somehow, eh?) can not be vibrating at the lowest possible vibration.. there is no "lowest vibration"; there is always one lower....
Could there be a frequency that is lower than 1 cycle per second? Why, yes: 1 cycle per 10 seconds.. or 100 seconds. or one cycle per gazillion gillion trillion millenia. Granted, things will happen very (VERY!) slowly, relative to a realm that zinked on and off at 1 CPS (cycle per second), but things would still happen there..
Until we can say precisely, in a thin lipped and thickly bespectacled scientificky type measurable repeatable manner what in tarnation it is that we are (or would hope to be) measuring and how fast it is cycling, though, we really have only a vague clue as to what we might be talking about.
THe Astral plane is not as "grainy" as the physical plane seems to be, in my (limited) experience. So that would at least support the notion that the AP has a higher vibration... but what is vibrating and how fast does it go...? Can these vibrations be registered by any independent thing at all? Anyone that can figure out a way to measure this will be halfway to solving the universe!
MH
The questions is valid.
Theoretically there should be no reason why not:
The physical plane, if it is "vibrating" at all ( would be great if this could be measured somehow, eh?) can not be vibrating at the lowest possible vibration.. there is no "lowest vibration"; there is always one lower....
Could there be a frequency that is lower than 1 cycle per second? Why, yes: 1 cycle per 10 seconds.. or 100 seconds. or one cycle per gazillion gillion trillion millenia. Granted, things will happen very (VERY!) slowly, relative to a realm that zinked on and off at 1 CPS (cycle per second), but things would still happen there..
Until we can say precisely, in a thin lipped and thickly bespectacled scientificky type measurable repeatable manner what in tarnation it is that we are (or would hope to be) measuring and how fast it is cycling, though, we really have only a vague clue as to what we might be talking about.
THe Astral plane is not as "grainy" as the physical plane seems to be, in my (limited) experience. So that would at least support the notion that the AP has a higher vibration... but what is vibrating and how fast does it go...? Can these vibrations be registered by any independent thing at all? Anyone that can figure out a way to measure this will be halfway to solving the universe!
MH
great question...in feed back more than anything else. lots of different opinions...that's always good. franks response was strange, but he's got it all figured out (i wonder what that feels like), a lot of firm believers in science and text books...that's always useful, and a few people with some experience in the lower realms (namely myself & Arcaenis).
THERE ARE LOWER REALMS.
it goes as far in one direction as it does in the other...it goes out in all directions, but no one asked a question about that. thank god. :wink:
as above so below is a sound principle for beings that are only capable of thinking in the liner. it always amazes me when humans try to sum it all up with such grandiose explanations. there is more than we could ever imagine and i for one am comfortable with that.
not that i like of drawing a line between men and women, but it's too bad in a way that it isn't listed in the profiles...becuz i have a feeling that those who are the most open to the possibilities are women, or just really together guys.
:wink:
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