What part of the brain do we "Notice" our dreams?

[moondog44]

I've always wanted to understand this question. When we dream, we see the dream in color, and it feels like we are part of it, as if it was real. Are we getting this energy from our Pineal Gland or another part of the brain?
Jeff

[Lexy]

I've always wanted to understand this question. When we dream, we see the dream in color, and it feels like we are part of it, as if it was real. Are we getting this energy from our Pineal Gland or another part of the brain?
Jeff

there are different theories regarding dreaming, so no one really knows.

[Stillwater]

Yeah, no one can really say.

The pineal gland is interesting insofar as it is the only other place outside eyes that retinal tissue, the type that can create an optical signal, is found. No one can say for sure what role the pineal might play in dreams and mental visualizations though.

If you are talking about gaining lucidity dreams, I would guess that there is alot of frontal lobe activity there, as gaining lucidity involves activating the part of our brain where we usually experience waking awareness.

[personalreality]

there are some theories that believe absolutely nothing related to the dream in any way happens in the brain.  instead the brain activity measured during entranced (or sleeping) periods is basically "self-cleaning" mode like on an oven.  during these times the brain is repairing broken neural connections, replaces connections that are no longer needed, regenerating cells, wiring new pathways for new experiences from the day, etc.  so the question has been, is dreaming just a side effect of this house cleaning, or does the brain just instinctively utilize these times of brain synchronization to do some work?  one of these choices makes consciousness a purely secondary characteristic of normal brain function.  the other recognizes the brain as a very very sophisticated machine and "user-interface" and not much else.  i'm of the latter opinion.  i really don't think the physical brain has much to do with most of this stuff.  however, it does benefit from the "side-effects".  for example, someone who meditates regularly or practices AP regularly is providing their physical brain with more down time to effect repairs and updates.  this would imply that those people's brain is potentially operating more efficiently and effectively because it has more time to keep up with daily experience and more daily experiences can be assimilated into the whole. 

but, that's neither here nor there.  there isn't a lot of "scientific" evidence about the role of consciousness relative to the brain and vice versa.  you'd think something as neat as altered states would get a bit more attention these days, but in most orthodox psychology and neurology, altered states are still seen as a pathology, a problem.

[Stillwater]

I tend to suspect something similar. From a philosophical basis, I have difficulty with reasoning out a way that first-person, self-aware type experiences can result from a bio-mechanical machine. If you believe whole-heartedly in materialsm, you must also accept that computers, when they are sophisticated enough, may harbor consciousness, and that it is also possible to make a machine out of magnets and tinker toys that is self-aware, if it is complex enough. It is an absolute mystery to me that most of the scientific community accepts without questioning that what they consider inanimate, sterile matter may be aranged in such a way that it becomes self-aware. Where would the first-person experiences come from?

Don't get me wrong, I think a great part of our identities is housed in our brains, and will ultimately die with it- observing how those with brain injuries change so drastically should be proof enough of that; but I don't think our brains are capable, from what science knows of matter at this point, from originating our consciousness itself.

I think on death it will be shown that our brains are indeed an interface as you say, but I also think we will lose the human perspective we had before, and see things through an entirely new direction.

[CFTraveler]

I've always wanted to understand this question. When we dream, we see the dream in color, and it feels like we are part of it, as if it was real. Are we getting this energy from our Pineal Gland or another part of the brain?
Jeff

I don't think moondog was talking about the role of consciousness in the brain or in dreaming- I think he was looking for the mechanical role the brain has in dreaming, as in, "why do we see stuff when we dream?" (in pictures, etc.) and I have the understanding that dmt is what makes the pictures happen (maybe even in waking consciousness, but I'd have to look that up to make sure this is so) but in dreams for sure.
The experience of dreaming is possibly something that happens in the mind (not the brain), but it's experienced by the brain, through neural pathways, and imaged by dmt in the pineal gland, then fed into the visual cortex, where images are formed.  However, here is a dandy description of what happens to the brain when we dream.
http://www.realmeaningofdreams.com/dreams-and-the-brain.html

[Killa Rican]

What i really want to know is..Through a scientific perspective, where in the brain are 'you' when you dream. 

[CFTraveler]

What i really want to know is..Through a scientific perspective, where in the brain are 'you' when you dream. 

I wouldn't know- I am not a part of the brain.
I was simply trying to answer the question as the OP asked it, not give an opinion on what I think the world is.  So if you're trying to start an argument, you're barking up the wrong tree,  compatriota.

[Killa Rican]

I wouldn't know- I am not a part of the brain.
I was simply trying to answer the question as the OP asked it, not give an opinion on what I think the world is.  So if you're trying to start an argument, you're barking up the wrong tree,  compatriota.

Actually I Wasn't trying to start an argument. I really do want to know. <_<

If our consciousness is just a wide blob of energy from that which compromises 'us'. Or does our brain mimic our physical shells we call a 'body' and molds this energy/consciousness into a humanoid form we may call the 'spirit' or 'astral body' or whichever.

Hard to describe, but i was already talking about it with Xanth in IRC chat last night lol.

[CFTraveler]

In that case I'll answer.   I don't know what consciousness is.  I don't think it's energy, I don't think it's information, I just know that I am.

[Pauli2]

Yet today science has not found any area of the brain which stores memory. Something to think of..

[CFTraveler]

But it has found the mechanism in which it stores it, and the areas of the brain that do this.  (The synapses in some parts of the brain).  So even though memories may not be stored in the physical part of the brain, it does use the brain to do it.

[Stillwater]

I am not convinced that memories are not stored in the physical brain at all, though. Just because we have not found the way they might be encoded does not mean they are not. It seems strange that they would not be there in any form, since dreams and other unconcsious activity reference memory to such an extent.

[Xanth]

I am not convinced that memories are not stored in the physical brain at all, though. Just because we have not found the way they might be encoded does not mean they are not. It seems strange that they would not be there in any form, since dreams and other unconcsious activity reference memory to such an extent.

I'm actually convinced that they're not stored in the brain.  But that would just be my opinion.  hehe
I'm still of the belief that the brain is only the control mechanism for the physical body.

[CFTraveler]

But it has found the mechanism in which it stores it, and the areas of the brain that do this.  (The synapses in some parts of the brain).  So even though memories may not be stored in the physical part of the brain, it does use the brain to do it.

When I said 'memories may not be stored in the brain', I didn't mean they're not.  I meant 'they may or may not' be.
Just clarifying.

[Stillwater]

Yeah, I think I read you post about the same way.

The thing was though, that because of the structure of the wording, it seemed to favor one possibility over the other, and I addressed that possbility ( the possibility that they were not encoded in physical body); the whole abscence of evidence not evidence of abscence argument, mainly.

But yeah- I think we are on close to the same page.

[Fourthdimension]

I just been studying about memory and if you look at some of the theories that are presented like the working model of memory. It does make it sound possible that it is inside our brain that memory takes place.

Where else would it take place?

Before i started this i guess i was very skeptic and then i became very curious and pasted everything off as something paranormal but now since i been doing psychology i realise that there is a hell of alot that can be explained with ease that we over complicate or i over complicate.

Firstly , If we only percieve from the brain how can we be sure that anything external exists outside of the brain and so if were not sure anything exsists outside of our brain how can we say that our memories are stored outside?

If by having a projection or lucid dream we are saying that there is some higher force or something external to our brains and that that is where our memories are stored . we might just as likely by going inside our brain and accesing other parts of it and not going outside so either way that would still make our memories stored in our brain.

we say this world is real but then when we have a dream without realising were dreaming we think that at that time it is also real. At the time of this dream we see our selves with a body . we dont think that it is non physical- why should we be thinking that if we think our experience is real.

so just think of this wild scenario,

nothing outside of our bodies exist i know that causes alot of problems and is impossible but just imagine it for a second. at this time our eyes start to create some sort of simulation that makes us think we are interacting with this enviroment even if were not really here. Like a video playing in our minds making us think and feel like we are here just like the matrix ...........we sleep and it changes the enviroment we think we are in and plays another scenario in our mind that we  are somewhere else interacting with that enviroment and the same with projection.

Which makes none of it and neither this real and makes the only thing that is evidently real is the body and mind.

am not syaing i dont believe in projection cause i do it alot and i believe its real and there is more to life but what if there was not...what if what we belive was nt real or anything we have ever thought to be real? What happens if were the pawns thinking were the kind when really were just the rubbish pieces been used first

anyways sorry for going off topic just have nt posted for a while

[Stillwater]

Yes, but then how does our brain lead to perception?

I am not asking how an optical signal is transfered to the thalamus and angular gyrus, and to the occipital lobe for processing, etc; I am asking how a bio-mechinical machine creates an experience that a previously non-existant entity, your consciousness, undergoes? Where does this entity which is self-aware come from in all this, what physical process is capable of creating it? Don't say a network of neurons communicating, because that is a cop-out; tell me how these machines talking to one another with signals can create a self-aware being.

[Fourthdimension]

Sorry for the short reply , I am off out for a meal and to the cinema for valentines. so happy valentines everyone and xanth will you marry me? Gay marry is legal here now joking

If this is just all some big illusion . Like films such as the matrix propose minus the machines haha   then we are nt really self aware .
What makes you think awareness cant be some side effect or chain reaction or that we can't evolve into awareness?

If you can't really measure awareness wats to say everything in the physical is aware. I thought only living things have souls yet when we project we see the astral double of chairs and beds so that means either we are all animate or we are all inanimate with the exception of our egotistical race who belives there superiority must mean they have awareness. i dont actually believe this but thats the thing nobody knows even if they done experiemnts because even science itself is based on belief and faith that all the fundementals of science is correct and thus there conclusion from a certain task and experiment must mean "A".

I have a washer and i feed it powder and it cleans my clothes. In the process of cleaning my clothes not only does it produce heat but it also uses water and it has a nice user interface that says press this for this or if you want this press this and if your sick of hearing me spinning feel free to press the power button and turn me off.
It uses electricity. I dont know much about electricity or electronics but i do know that theres a number of sophisticated components beyond my knowledge but those i do know consist of resistors and transistors , a circuitry board.
All these things are soldiered onto this board and then when it has its shell (casing) on i just run some energy through it and bingo it works like magic and does exactly as i want.
I say as i want but when i press a pre programmed button it runs a preprogrammed course.

this is exactly how we are. We are bits of components all put together with energy running through us to make us work and we got loads of biologically preprogramming (maybe we mistake this for awareness) and when we do these tasks we alsolet off a lot of side effects. such as soon as the energy is running through me i start to let off heat. I eat and thus i need to wee.

So we are just machines doing pre programmed tasks so how do you know what you conisder as awareness is just not another one of those tasks ?

enjoy your valentines day evryone

[CFTraveler]

Sorry for the short reply , I am off out for a meal and to the cinema for valentines. so happy valentines everyone and xanth will you marry me? Gay marry is legal here now  joking

I'm keeping this for posterity.    I know it's going to come in handy some day.

[CFTraveler]

4D, I'm going to answer your question not from a 'reality is an illusion' standpoint, but from a 'we are data' standpoint.
It has been discovered by science that reality (that is, physical reality) may be holographic.  It also has been observed in physics that measuring or observing an incident affects it.  Some physicists say it creates it, some others say it changes it.  But they all (or most) agree that measurement of observation makes something happen, either creates or changes an outcome.
So far with me?
Now some other scientists (astronomers, I think) seem to have discovered that in the farthest reaches of the universe, spacetime seems to decohere, something that happens in a hologram.  And, like it has been said earlier in this thread, the brain processes stimuli holographically.
Now, put all of this together, and think about it for a while.  Don't try to fit it into any paradigm.  If you need to, look up things, to clarify in your mind what I'm talking about.
Then let's talk next week about it some more.

[Fourthdimension]

Cft sorry i have nt replied yet i have been busy and am still kinda tied up but not in a bondage sense of the word unfortunatly. I ll try and reply to this reply tomorrow

[CFTraveler]

Cft sorry i have nt replied yet i have been busy and am still kinda tied up but not in a bondage sense of the word unfortunatly. I ll try and reply to this reply tomorrow

I didn't necessarily want you to reply- just to look up the stuff I talked about- I know, it's too much like homework, but well worth the time, I think.