The Astral Pulse

Even if you exclude the made up fake communications, the amount of useful knowledge that any spirit has ever communicated is almost nil.
I can expect that the info coming from so called 'lower beings' and ordinary spirits would be useless or nothing new, but even the so called 'higher beings' just go round and round in circles with meaningless gibberish.
So far I never came across any kind of 'intelligent communication'. So I may be wrong here. By such communication I mean any information which helped in some kind of achievements or reveling any truths.
Moreover they never try to disclose the mechanisms by which they communicate and sound very vague when asked.

The whole situation puts spirit communications in the category of pseudosciences such as astrology, where there is a lot of heat but no light.

I can only guess the reasons for it -
1. Its all fake, no one can communicate with spirits really.
2. Spirits don't want to interfere with normal workings of the world, so don't pass any higher knowledge down.
3. They want us to learn in a hard way, using our own intelligence.
4. They do say things in thought forms which are useful, but our physically rooted minds distort it and filter it out during communications.
5. They think that we have enough knowledge about the physical and non-physical to carry on, and there is no need to over burden us with things which we wont use and understand anyway.
6. They are only as intelligent as we are, so don't posses any more knowledge then we do.
7. They are not interested in physical at all.
8. They have got rid of all things related to physical and cant seem to relate to them anymore. So our questions about physics are Chinese to them.
9. They are afraid that we would misuse the knowledge.
10. They prefer to communicate useful things via dreams, inspirations, insights, gut feelings, intuitions and such.
11. They are already in full communication with our 'higher selves', so there is no need to repeat the things here on earth.

And I can think of more....but that's all for now. ;)
I'd like to have your opinions on the matter.

I agree with you

Not always. Channelings from Azazel, Thoth and Lucifer at www.joyofsatan.com do make sense. Most of meditations there were designed with their help.

I may go blind if I read those red texts on black.
But I tried reading the section on meditations and its some eastern occult stuff in a language of video game story.

12. They possess less knowledge than we do.

Psan,
Number 4 suites me best.

Quote4. They do say things in thought forms which are useful, but our physically rooted minds distort it and filter it out during communications.
 

IMO, there is a time factor that contributes to less than ideal communication methods, for the sender as well as the receiver.

Spirit Guides communicate their knowledge to you by telling you what NOT to do when the time arises. Like, DON'T take that road. Or, SAVE your money. Or, DO IT NOW, not later.

Communicative, tangible relationships exist, but in order to experience them, you need to develop those abilities. You sound a lot like where I am right now. Believe me, you are not alone in being confused, or should I say, doubtful about the whole process. If you want to learn more about spirit guides, Sylvia Brown is a very recommended and highly respected mystic.

You will find her to be very level and competent, much like Robert Bruce.

Spirit Guides are not omnipotent beings. Supposedly, they are there to ensure our charts are met and that our contract with God continues on task. The only reasons I would communicate with them would be for insight or confidence.

Since imagination is the bridge between them and us, it's common for messages to be misinterpreted. To compare with an example, imagine the task of translating another language into English using an on-line translator.

Spiritual communications are that foreign language. And it is up to your mental software -- imagination -- to translate it into something understandable. On-line translators are never accurate, and neither is your mind. The problems for both the software and your imagination stem from the programming. In this case, any success with your imagination comes from focus.

Remember, focus keeps your imagination from running wild. Don't waste time telling yourself you have the focus. You'll know if you're a novice like me if, during an exercise, you ask a question and it comes back in gibberish. Like, "Yes, my name is WuuuWahOOOooEEeAAooUUUAhhhEEe. . ." and so forth.

You'll also know if you're making it up if there's no sense of notice or urgency in your heart or chest area. You'll know especially if you can control the conversations (by writing off the answer and putting words into his or her mouth).

But don't worry. This falsification can actually summon something up, even if you believe it's false!

The second element here is intuition. Again, it can be hard to tell what's real and what isn't. You may have had one or more of those experiences where you KNOW something is true. There are signs to look for, but since they are subtle, you need hands-on experience to distinguish them.

The feeling will NOT go away if you try and shake it off. It will come from the heart, or the chest or stomach, and often, there will be a powerful overwhelming feeling about it. It comes in the form of choice usually, and often as a warning. People identify this as their inner voice, intuition, or premonitions. Everyone gets them. You never HAVE to listen to it, but if you don't, there will be hell to pay. The feeling is unmistakable. There is always a powerful urgency to it. "DO IT NOW! THERE'S NOT TIME TO THINK! I IMPLORE YOU TO HEED MY ADVICE!"

Spirit guides are only interested in keeping you from getting your butt into a sling. They're not there to turn you into a wise, all-knowing guru about everything (i.e. intellectual subjects, like space and medicine).

I want to add that the whole bit on imagination came to me a few days ago when I was "imagining" an exercise with an "imaginary" spirit guide. There was a turning point when it felt like another presence took over and from there the conversation became about easing my doubts about spirit guide communications being "just my imagination".

If you ask me, there are many components you can develop that are related. It is the same as in college where you must take many difference courses that are independent, but related.

You know, as I grow and learn more, I really get the sense that the answers we're looking for are far simpler than we may think. I think it's the typical human mind that complicates and distorts things.
There are levels of understanding. For instance, understanding something logically just touches the surface of knowledge. As you grow and gain more experience, you can often look back on concepts that you once thought you understood with greater clarity. I mean, you really did understand them at the time, but your depth of understanding, you realize was at the bare minimum.
I think it's all a matter of the depth of your understanding. Words and logic offer such little depth.

Beyond that, I think it's our job to figure our way through this world. I get the sense that if guides are helping us, it's their responsibility to do so in a covert way, so that we learn our lessons for ourselves. Otherwise, they'll be infringing on our growth.

Telos: That might be true for many of them. But we cant generalize. In many of the communications they try to pose as very wise and all knowing but fail to convey any smart and practical things.

wisp: Whats this time factor? I couldn't get you.

Chaoslogic: That's a good post. I see that you focus only on guides, whose intention is obviously not to cater to your curiosities. They only warn or direct or advice in personal matter. I think there is no way to know whether any intuitions that we get come from guides or not.
The imagination method works for many. I read Robert Peterson's account. Here I have a doubt that you are talking to your subconscious, not to external entities. A quick check is to ask something that you yourself don't know(even remotely) and can be verified quickly and unambiguously. It should be a easy to answer question not about yourself or about 'big' philosophical things or related to future.

Nostic: You have some good points. Its hard for me to believe that all the useful things that a spirit or a guide would tell us will be an obstacle to our growth.

I think that there are two types of people who want to receive that kind of information from spirits:  People who want to increase their personal wisdom and power, and people who want to convey it to the world, i.e. the ones who go on about huge fleets of alien spaceships hurtling towards Earth to arrive in 20 years or some such.

It makes me think that the majority of such communications are false, from trickster spirits having a joke on us and manipulating our hopes and beliefs.  I also believe that for people who are ready to receive such information, spirits or angels or whatever sometimes reveal truths of a more or less profound nature, which if the person so chooses, they can reveal to those they also believe to be ready.  But a website full of crazy-sounding prophesies or truths, to me, is probably junk.

Psan,

Messages come in various ways. When I get a chance I'll write up an example how time is a factor regarding getting information through to one's present.

One source may very well be our own self. Do we meet our later or earlier selves along the way in life? I believe this happens. The most obvious are in dreams.

GB,
Future events is an interesting subject. I believe misunderstandings of the future is easy to do. If we exist in past, present, and future at the same time, it seems to reason some things can get misconstrued. Some things may be intentional, but some may be honest misunderstandings. When a group gets together, there may be a tendency to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Quote from: Psanthe amount of useful knowledge that any spirit has ever communicated is almost nil..... even the so called 'higher beings' just go round and round in circles with meaningless gibberish.So far I never came across any kind of 'intelligent communication'. So I may be wrong here. By such communication I mean any information which helped in some kind of achievements or revealing any truths.Moreover they never try to disclose the mechanisms by which they communicate and sound very vague when asked.The whole situation puts spirit communications in the category of pseudosciences such as astrology, where there is a lot of heat but no light.

spirit and angels have inspired music inventions literature films and art
they have prevented tragedies and casualties
they have uplifted and encouraged
they have moved our hearts to romance
to courage to virtue to compassion
they have motivated us

spirit communication is open to all but it is not easy for all
it takes time practice and patience
when we are too suspicious we remain closed off
when we are too accepting we are open to confusion and deception
so how to go ?
go to the source
check it out yourself

it is easier to speak to a grandmother in spirit than to an angel
an archangel is harder to see or hear

how much meaningful communication can come from our deceased rellies
when they never learned to speak to spirit as humans they don't speak well to live humans when they become spirit it takes time to

mahatma and archangels have useful information to impart
but how many have learned to hear or see them or even tried

it is easier for spirits to  reach us in dreams but how many live ones recall their dreams ?

and how many live ones are  spiritually aware
I would guess it to be a small percentage
i feel it would be less than 1 percent of humanity

what is the purpose of this life ?
we are spirit in a human form learning or attempting to learn
to evolve the universal mind and shift our consciousness forward and upward

Spirit does teach us the way to enlightenment
that is something

muses inspire us make us hear the music
see the plan
have the dream
make the technological advancement

i  feel you need to prove it to yourself by sitting in meditation
and making a connection with your own guide

mine gives me heads up signs

my son's life was saved when he heard an angel tell him to stay at a mate's house and not go out to the cinemas he heard this message repeated but ignored it and was hit by a car at 80 kph
then he heard the angel say you are not meant to die today
you will escape death
but not the pain
next time
listen

my life has radically changed due to spirit communication
i could not begin to persuade you with my own experiences
who am i
why should you trust me
you should not
you should find out for yourself
go straight to the source

my words will mean nought to you otherwise
we must all see and hear for ourselves

so if you are truly curious about how life altering spirit communication can be you should open your channel and tune in

Om Shanti

Psan, in fact, that entire conversation about 'imagination' came about from me asking such a question. Even when it was all in my imagination, I was saying that it could "just be my imagination". Whether or not it was made up, I still got a very insightful response. And that response changed my perception for the better. In fact, I have a better understanding of how spirit guides can communicate with people, when previously I was looking at it only as halfway idea instead of a full one.

I've read Peterson's treastie, but oddly enough, I don't recall any of those methods. That's where I first learned about inner voices (being connected to spirit guides. Previously, I had grown up with my mom mentioning how they saved her from car accidents).

During inner monologues, I'm always impressed by how wise and articulate my thoughts are. It's my voice, but it is being guided; like a hand that is being guided to draw, write, or feel by another hand.

Quote from: Psan

Nostic: You have some good points. Its hard for me to believe that all the useful things that a spirit or a guide would tell us will be an obstacle to our growth.

Yes, I agree, not all.

redcatherine,
Was that a poem?  :lol:
I think you misunderstood the problem that I'm addressing. I did not deny the possibility of spirit communication. The warnings, prediction of accidents, inspirations and art/romance etc are good enough signs of spirit communication.
We also have very direct communications which prove their existence.

Its also true that its very hard to communicate with higher beings, given our limitations and their limitations. But whenever such communications are realized, we get no new knowledge out of them which humanity can use for its evolution.

The unscientific and 'just for my own problems' approach is so unfortunate.

Indeed! Personally I wil be convinced when a spirit is able to lucidly and fully communication the working principles of the zero-point field or resonant healing. Either would be acceptable!!!!! And either would have the effect of massively reducing human suffering....I'm not holding me breath though

Quote from: ChaoslogicDuring inner monologues, I'm always impressed by how wise and articulate my thoughts are. It's my voice, but it is being guided; like a hand that is being guided to draw, write, or feel by another hand.

I can second that as I have similar experience. Sometimes during inner dialogues I would stop thinking along the habitual lines and something out of the box pops out. It often sounds like a wise quote from a great man, but totally new to me. Then I wonder how could I make such a statement, it feels like a 'foreign thought'.

I don't know if there's any psychology going on here or it is a real communication from someone who's 'listening' to me.

Quote from: Psanredcatherine,
Was that a poem?  :lol:

no it lacks rhyme , metre or alliteration
and as such is not poetry

i am quite serious in my discourse i assure you

QuoteBut whenever such communications are realized, we get no new knowledge out of them which humanity can use for its evolution.

What does one expect ? Is not spiritual enlightenment , technology, music ,art and literature useful ? What would you have instead ?? ...lottery numbers ? What do you really expect ?

How do you suppose we will evolve if not spiritually or technologically ? Spirit communication aids both of these . Or did you mean comically or economically ?

As for physics and Maths ...do you suppose these have not been divinely inspired ? Math mimics nature . The human energy body develops along the lines of Fibonacci as do many patterns of nature . God is the greatest mathematician and notable minds like Sir Isaac Newton studied his great work in the spiritual alchemy of the human body .

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What does one expect ? Is not spiritual enlightenment , technology, music ,art and literature useful ? What would you have instead ?? ...lottery numbers ? What do you really expect ?

How do you suppose we will evolve if not spiritually or technologically ? Spirit communication aids both of these . Or did you mean comically or economically ?

As for physics and Maths ...do you suppose these have not been divinely inspired ? Math mimics nature . The human energy body develops along the lines of Fibonacci as do many patterns of nature . God is the greatest mathematician and notable minds like Sir Isaac Newton studied his great work in the spiritual alchemy of the human body .

Technology? Show me at least one channeling that has any technological value.
Also math has nearly nothing to do with nature. In nature nearly everything is partially random, and in math nothing is random. There's also no proof of connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence, and if there is, show it to me. Physics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

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spirit and angels have inspired music inventions literature films and art
they have prevented tragedies and casualties
they have uplifted and encouraged
they have moved our hearts to romance
to courage to virtue to compassion
they have motivated us

I think that best motivation comes from within, and spirits are not needed at all for humans to create something beautiful. Courage and compassion are taught by parents/life, not spirits.
Also show me a definite proof of "spirits preventing tragedies and causualties". Of course I am not talking about things like one prevented death, but something bigger. Spirits don't prevent things like in Iraq and Sudan.

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it is easier to speak to a grandmother in spirit than to an angel
an archangel is harder to see or hear

It's not true. I think that Angels are just too proud to communicte with people, they consider human race unworthy. If it isn't so, why then communicating with demons is extremely easy, much easier than communicating with dead relatives?

Dude yous post is full of assumptions and innacuracies.....catherine I hope you don't mind me fielding this one! Sure you wont  :wink:

QuoteAlso math has nearly nothing to do with nature. In nature nearly everything is partially random, and in math nothing is random.

Say wha?? Whether things in nature are random is hugely debateable. Quantum shows us probabilities but apparent random-ness on this scale his little, if anything, to do with the macro-world of nature. I mean its pretty tricky to apply Schrodingers Cat theory in reality - the cat knows damn well where it is and will make sure everyone else does too!! But I jest. Thats the biggy in quantum interpretation, whether its truly random or just appear so due to out lame probing techniques. As Einstein said in that famous debate:
"God does not play dice" to which Bohr replied "who are we to say where God places his dice?". When you have two of the biggest giants of physics in the last century at heads on a topic like this, your certainty in yourself is......um.....

Besides, maths is our way of describiing nature, and it seems to do such a damn good job.....oh yeah and maths can describe probabilites (random) quite adequately too....

QuoteThere's also no proof of connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence, and if there is, show it to me.

Proof? You mean mathmatical proof of something relating to the energy body? ROFLMAO good luck!!!!
Anyway.....I can give examples, would that be acceptable do you think?
All through nature. Sea shells, plant growth, etc etc etc etc.......etc.......etc....just google is FFS. In brief, in nature growth follows these sequences to harmonise themselves with the natural movements of energy.

Other research which has been done on the direct connection between fibonacci sequences and the movements of energies is in a book called "The Golden Vortex" which is crazy cool. Highly recommend, but only if you've got a seriously open mind...

Other examples of spirals (perhaps fibonacci) being crucial include:
- Beltrami force free vortex
- Russian tosion fields
- Need I go on?

QuotePhysics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

Are you actually serious in all these "show me the proof" statements, or are you just trying to sound clever and shut Catherine up?
Besides, do you honestly think any respectable scientist would jeopardise their career and work by admitting it was given to him by spiritual entities? The very idea is ludicrous. Further, most scientists are 100% switched off to this stuff, so any entity that did want to help through these things would probably have to do so through subconsicous channels. Still, the best we have in the public domain is the discoverer of DNA and his dream about snakes.

QuoteCourage and compassion are taught by parents/life, not spirits.

What gives you the right to say that? Besides you've wrong, I've learned important lessons on these thigns and more from both my parents and various entities, both dark and light.

QuoteIt's not true. I think that Angels are just too proud to communicte with people, they consider human race unworthy

I have never met an Angel, but from the above statement its obvious that neither have you. However, some people have, such as RB, and I feel quite confident he would not agree with you.
Angels are high spiritual beings, the concept of them turning their nose up at us is very low and IMO quite silly. The reason they dont communicate so much is more likely so that we dont come to rely on them - we are, after all, here for a reason, and no doubt they know this very well too. Conversely, if you read RB's account of the high spiritual world you'll see he saw plenty of angels there, which would indicate interaction.

Come on Caco, I'm sure you're both more intelligent and less arrogant than your post makes you out to be! I guess we all have bad days :x  :shock:  :?  :D .

Rob

Quote from: CaCoDeMoNTechnology? Show me at least one channeling that has any technological value.

Thats right. There are none.

QuotePhysics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

Physicists are far away from spiritual activities, so there's no chance that they would communicate with spirits for proposing theories. And as we all know very few theories survive the test of time, so anything if it was communicated 100 years back to physicists is wrong !
Now dont tell me that spirits lied to physicists just for fun.

And whoever inspired a scientist to build a nuke or bio-weapons was not very intelligent. Perhaps he was a demon not an angel, one would say. I admire his knowledge of nuclear science. It is strange that no angel prevented its use, or even warned. On a serious side, its not possible to get a proof. You are breaking your head on a wall, if you are asking a proof from people who are already "sure" about such communications.

QuoteSpirits don't prevent things like in Iraq and Sudan.

Thats why I say that the "only for personal use" approach is so unfortunate, given their powers to predict so accurately.

Quotewhy then communicating with demons is extremely easy, much easier than communicating with dead relatives?

Even demons don't leave a trace. But its not correct to say that angels are proudy, they could be at most indifferent or work in background. Although demons usually make their intentions very clear, angels are shy in giving away their secret methods of operating.

These are not my views, just some observations. So if anyone knows about things that are otherwise, please put them down here.

Quote from: IngumaBesides, maths is our way of describing nature, and it seems to do such a damn good job.....oh yeah and maths can describe probabilites (random) quite adequately too....

So, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?
How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?
How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

I wouldn't be surprised if you find these questions stupid and are laughing on me. But hopefully I conveyed the point that only physical plane yields to mathematical analysis. And perhaps we dont need spirits to tell us that, we are spirits ourselves who are in the best position to see that.

What we do expect that if a higher spirit on a higher plane has learnt any such laws about their own planes, which can help us here to progress spiritually, should have communicated them by some kind of systematic means. But obviously that has not happened, and we are wondering the whys and hows of that in this thread. Its a different matter altogether that you chose to support the "claims" of someone you know for whatever reasons.

QuoteAre you actually serious in all these "show me the proof" statements,

Well I dont know what CaCoDeMoN is asking here, but I feel he is just saying that her claims are just her opinions and personal experiences, not based on scientific experiments. Even if true, they are not acceptable because that's how science works.  :)

We all assume the mind exists, even though there is no physical proof of its location or its nature. Should I believe that the mind doesn't exist because there is no proof that it does, likewise to how one can't believe in spirit guides for similar reasons?

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Proof? You mean mathmatical proof of something relating to the energy body? ROFLMAO good luck!!!!

" connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence" is a mathematical statement so there should be mathematical proof for it or it'll be just a pointless statement.

Quote
Are you actually serious in all these "show me the proof" statements, or are you just trying to sound clever and shut Catherine up?
Besides, do you honestly think any respectable scientist would jeopardise their career and work by admitting it was given to him by spiritual entities? The very idea is ludicrous. Further, most scientists are 100% switched off to this stuff, so any entity that did want to help through these things would probably have to do so through subconsicous channels. Still, the best we have in the public domain is the discoverer of DNA and his dream about snakes.

This way you could also say that sciencists get their ideas from aliens, but don't want to say that in public, so their reputation will not be destroyed. Both of these are claims without evidence. I think that some ideas can appear in dreams because when the conscious mind is occupied with something, subconscious is occupied too, and it's far more powerful than conscious mind. Even I sometimes have dreams that are not based in physical reality, but are all about mathematical equations.

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Come on Caco, I'm sure you're both more intelligent and less arrogant than your post makes you out to be! I guess we all have bad days

If someone has different point of view it doesn't mean that he's arrogant. I am probably less intelligent than most users on this forum, but at least I see that not all that seems to be paranormal really has to be so, frequently there are much more realistic explanations.

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And whoever inspired a scientist to build a nuke or bio-weapons was not very intelligent. Perhaps he was a demon not an angel, one would say. I admire his knowledge of nuclear science. It is strange that no angel prevented its use, or even warned. On a serious side, its not possible to get a proof. You are breaking your head on a wall, if you are asking a proof from people who are already "sure" about such communications.

"Sure" doesn't necessarily mean "right".

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Even demons don't leave a trace. But its not correct to say that angels are proudy, they could be at most indifferent or work in background. Although demons usually make their intentions very clear, angels are shy in giving away their secret methods of operating.

They do. Not in physics/mathematics, but once I've found excellent chakra meditation that was channeled from Azazel. It was many times more powerful than anything I've seen before. Also I've seen a meditation channeled directly from Satan but I've never tested it.

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Well I don't know what CaCoDeMoN is asking here, but I feel he is just saying that her claims are just her opinions and personal experiences, not based on scientific experiments. Even if true, they are not acceptable because that's how science works.

No, I'd just like to see an example of a channeling that has any scientific value.

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So, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?
How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?
How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

I think that answers for questions 1. and 2. could be researched, but at 3. is should be first checked if there really is such thing like frequency of the planes.

QuoteSo, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?
How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?
How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

Well, maths and physics is worked out by....mathmaticians and physicists! Who for the most part have not applied themselves to this problem. I am, however, of the opinion that one day they will and it will yield to analysis.
Infact, this has already begun. Tom Bearden, in his book uuummmm "Excalibur Briefing" does give a differential equation which he claims governs the movements of chi-type energy. Also wilhelm reich made good headway in understanding the dynamic movements of orgone, and a lot of the stuff I mentioned in my last post could be linked to this (chi - ZPF and vortex connections for instance).
Second question - no idea! In terms of frequencies (infolded etc) and 3d coordinates I suspect.
Third q - probably logarithmic and with discreet steps
:)

QuoteI wouldn't be surprised if you find these questions stupid and are laughing on me.

Naa!! As you can see they are questions I take quite seriously. But I also realise that our current level of understand is way too limited to go around demanding absolute mathmatical proofs.

QuoteBut hopefully I conveyed the point that only physical plane yields to mathematical analysis.

Well, as you can see, my opinion differs!!

QuoteIts a different matter altogether that you chose to support the "claims" of someone you know for whatever reasons

I dont know catherine, my interaction with her has been limited to a couple of posts, no more. I was not trying to support anyone, merely point out the unerasonably-ness and flaws in cacos post.

Rob

Caco:

Quote" connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence" is a mathematical statement so there should be mathematical proof for it or it'll be just a pointless statement.

I disagree (betcha couldn't see that one coming???! hehe). Experiencial and observational proofs are the best you're gonna get, and quite valid, especially in a place like this.

QuoteThis way you could also say that sciencists get their ideas from aliens, but don't want to say that in public, so their reputation will not be destroyed. Both of these are claims without evidence.

Yup, my point was we dont know, so trying to back someone into a wall by demanding proofs is unfair.

QuoteEven I sometimes have dreams that are not based in physical reality, but are all about mathematical equations.

wow, cool!!!! Tell us about them, sounds fascinating!

Rob

Math is limited in a sense; you can not calculate everything and this is easily to prove if only you start to play with the number ''infinity''.

You cant solve (-1)^infinity = x. So what? The problem has no logical meaning. Its gibberish. All words are limited because "sdkjkjweuruxnmshiswiuermnjsdfu" exists.

I think I was not clear enough, sorry.

QuoteSo, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?
How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?
How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

This is the reason why there are ''limits'', you can't calculate or ''measure'' something if you do not set boundaries. Example: it is impossible to find coordinates if a person is in a infinitely wide astral plane (maybe somebody know if astral planes have some type of boundaries?). Or if God is infinite, how can science prove it with somekind of mathematical formula? You can't really ''measure''  God if he is infinite.

It is more in that sense I meant it; how can we deal with some problems if we adopt the infinity concept at different levels?  Maybe I'm totally off topic and I'm sorry If I have done so!  :lol:

Take care,

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Math is limited in a sense; you can not calculate everything and this is easily to prove if only you start to play with the number ''infinity''.

It's because infinity is not a number. It's only a symbol used in some deinitions, but never in calculations. I would explain it, but I can't translate this from Polish language(there's no math terms in my English dictionary)

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wow, cool!!!! Tell us about them, sounds fascinating!

It certainly was funny. I was studying math for an exam, and when I gone to sleep I had such dream. I've not seen anything in it, it was also not verbal, there was only a function, but existing on a different level of thinking. I could "feel" and fully understand it, it's hard to describe in words...

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This is the reason why there are ''limits'', you can't calculate or ''measure'' something if you do not set boundaries.

Not really. When there are no boundaries of plane, coordinates on it can be easily measured relatively.

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You can't really ''measure'' God if he is infinite.

IF he is infinite.

Patapouf:

QuoteThis is the reason why there are ''limits'', you can't calculate or ''measure'' something if you do not set boundaries. Example: it is impossible to find coordinates if a person is in a infinitely wide astral plane

hhmmm interesting....but the physical is, to all extents and purposed (and, honestly, there is little to disprove this), infinite, yet we still have reference points. OK so in the absolute sense you cannot specify coordinates since there is infinite on all sides therefore coordinates are impossible, but you can always start somewhere. For instance, in the astral, there already appears to be a mapping system in place (re: astral plane surface structure). Interestingly, RB wants to create a complete map of the astral some day!!

Caco:

QuoteIt certainly was funny. I was studying math for an exam, and when I gone to sleep I had such dream. I've not seen anything in it, it was also not verbal, there was only a function, but existing on a different level of thinking. I could "feel" and fully understand it, it's hard to describe in words...

Very nice! Exams do get right into you head huh? You must've been revising like a real demon!! (yeah terrible I know sorry....lol)
Have you ever had the experience of waking up and seeing text scrolling past your minds eye, during times of heavy learning? I've had that a couple of times, and RB has noticed it to. I would love to hear from anyone else who has.

btw apologies if I was a bit harsh in laughing at you before, I can be so impulsive at times! Anyway, sorry!

peace

Rob

Quotebut the physical is, to all extents and purposed (and, honestly, there is little to disprove this), infinite, yet we still have reference points. OK so in the absolute sense you cannot specify coordinates since there is infinite on all sides therefore coordinates are impossible, but you can always start somewhere.

Yeah, if you start somewhere (ex: planet earth for the physical or another thing for a specific astral plane), it might be possible to create some type of coordinates and reference points to map the astral (and help others on their OBEs). To create a map of the astral isn't easy to do, you probably need a lot of experience like Robert to do that! I have never been to the astral planes while having an OBE so I really don't know how it looks like. The drawing in the back of  Robert's book Astral Dynamics is one of the only glimpse that I may have of what an astral plane looks like!

Take care,

Quote from: ChaoslogicWe all assume the mind exists, even though there is no physical proof of its location or its nature. Should I believe that the mind doesn't exist because there is no proof that it does, likewise to how one can't believe in spirit guides for similar reasons?

This looks like off topic, but there's not much fun when you only post on topic  :D
Your mind is nothing but you yourself. There is self reference when you assume that you exist, there cannot be any assumptions, because you are identical to the mind you are assuming. No other proof is required, other than proving the identity -> YOU=YOU. Which any simple logic allows.

Nevertheless there is no direct proof of existence of other minds (which leads to an interesting debate covered under solipsism). You must infer it from others actions. Simple experiments can tell you that there are more 'minds' other than your own. You cannot perceive the mind directly because its not a physical object and your senses and scientific instruments are designed to detect only physical entities. However you can easily infer the existence of other minds by communicating to them, if you get a meaningful communication which is consistent and repeatable and verifiable. You can also check the effect it has on its surroundings and detect its presence, just like we detect physical 'energy'.

Spirit guides are non-physical and we cant see them directly for the similar reasons, they are only 'minds'. However you can communicate with them, through unknown means, perhaps by lending them your own 'hardware' (brain) for a while. What we lack is the ability to do it consistently, only a few have such talents and skills.
Moreover, there are no publicly verifiable accounts of such communications, except personal experiences. So although existence of minds other than your own is established beyond doubt, we have far less evidence for the existence of spirit guides and such, to establish them scientifically. Possibility that they are real cannot be denied. Only way to show this is to set up rigorous experiments, which seems to be a difficult task ATM.

Quote from: patapoufYeah, if you start somewhere (ex: planet earth for the physical or another thing for a specific astral plane), it might be possible to create some type of coordinates and reference points to map the astral

How are you gonna effectively map astral when everyone perceives it differently? Even your own perceptions of the same thing (e.g your room) in astral differ from visit to visit. The liquid nature of it defys any such attempts. There are no directions and no time, no laws and no maths holds. Bruce will surely map it, but it will be his own version.

What we need here is different pointers, perhaps of mental nature, which can be unambiguously shared by all. Then we can proceed to invent a logic not based on numbers, so that one can follow those pointers using a special astral logic and arrive at some destination without having any previous experience of that astral location. This is of course my guess only.

Perhaps spirits know about shared realities, which are somewhat permanent, and as there are no geometrical relations holding here, we can at least list them out, if some spirit bothers to tell you. You can't visit them because you don't know they are there, and without anyone to guide you, you are on your own mostly. Create your own and let it dissolve in seconds, back to your body....

What we really need is some way to observe the astral independent of perceptions.  Figure out the underlying workings of the astral.  Once we can do that, then we can start mathematically figuring stuff out.  Until then, it's like daydreaming about 2 girls and trying to figure out how far apart they are.

I'm a bit angry here. Why is that everyone we channel insists on being self-help guide instead of providing us with interesting knowledge? Practical knowledge? I don't care about the other planets we're never going to discover in this life time. Where's the cure for AIDs or cancer that would save hundreds of lives? If it's in the Ashkashic, as all recorded knowledge of the past, present, and future is (and the certainty of a future discovery of cures is an inevitable possibility, and not a matter of "if" it is discovered), it should be accessible! So where is this information?

INSERT: I'm getting the intuitive feeling here that they could tell us, but thatwould be cheating. It still doesn't answer why projectionists and channelers couldn't do this.

Quote
I'm a bit angry here. Why is that everyone we channel insists on being self-help guide instead of providing us with interesting knowledge? Practical knowledge? I don't care about the other planets we're never going to discover in this life time. Where's the cure for AIDs or cancer that would save hundreds of lives? If it's in the Ashkashic, as all recorded knowledge of the past, present, and future is (and the certainty of a future discovery of cures is an inevitable possibility, and not a matter of "if" it is discovered), it should be accessible! So where is this information?

INSERT: I'm getting the intuitive feeling here that they could tell us, but thatwould be cheating. It still doesn't answer why projectionists and channelers couldn't do this.

What if there's no records of future, only probabilities? If there would be records of future, and people would know it, it's logical that they could change it, and then records would be not true.
About cures for AIDS, etc. : What if Earth was meant to be a damned concentration camp  and sometimes even slaughterhouse for the most of humanity? What if all these guides agree that people should suffer? Truly terrifying perspective. I think that it could be so.
What if that's all for some silly kind of "higher good"? Channelings posted by Rastus some time ago seem to support these statements.

Quote
Very nice! Exams do get right into you head huh? You must've been revising like a real demon!! (yeah terrible I know sorry....lol)

Not really. Just like every other person could do. Brain can adapt itself to be used in many completely different tasks, and with enough training everyone can get to a level when performing some task requires no verbal thinking - I call it a level of "true understanding"(like Vipassana meditation but on the math :) ). The problem is that people are lazy, and want to put all the sh*t served on TV channels at their free time into their brains rather than do something more useful.

Quote
Have you ever had the experience of waking up and seeing text scrolling past your minds eye, during times of heavy learning? I've had that a couple of times, and RB has noticed it to. I would love to hear from anyone else who has.

Only a few times, the text can be read but not always makes sense, it happens at the state of consciousness that some people call Focus 12. When I relax more there occurs smooth transition to 3d.

Quote
btw apologies if I was a bit harsh in laughing at you before, I can be so impulsive at times! Anyway, sorry!

No problem.

This is infinite but boundaries were still found. The graph of a small equation.

(http://www.borndigital.com/tree/esa/ag/brot.gif)

Quote
This is infinite but boundaries were still found. The graph of a small equation.

There's easier way to get something infinite, but with boundary:
1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16+...=1
or:
0.9999999.....=1

I have a feeling that this world is a prison and we are being kept here so that we learn our 'lessons'. We are brainwashed before the birth and programmed to forget everything. Somehow we get bound to a body and cannot escape. We are forced to stay in this body, and the punishment for escaping - severe pain. We avoid death to avoid pain.

Fear is programmed into us so that we dont venture too much into non-physical. Although there are some loop holes and hacks (AP), but it is kept effectively under check. If you look at what we really do here, you'd find it absolutely ridiculous. We eat, sleep, excrete, fight like dogs for food and space and struggle every second of our lives. We have emotions programed into us to keep us in control. Those who behave nicely in spite of these pressures are allowed out, else you are pushed back again in a new birth.

No spirits (except the negative ones) want to interfere here, although they may help someone who is doing well. All things are kept secret, especially the non-physical ones by hook or crook, but by mostly supplying contradictory information. Physical laws are built such that we cant escape too far away from this small ball of mud and rock.

I came across similar ideas on Internet, so its definitely not a product of my mind only. Its too negative for me accept and I avoid such thoughts if possible, but something bugs me often, that it could be true.

Quote
I came across similar ideas on Internet, so its definitely not a product of my mind only. Its too negative for me accept and I avoid such thoughts if possible, but something bugs me often, that it could be true.

I think that it could be true. Or false. And what if life on earth is like soviet concentration camp, full of meaningless work,hate and suffering. How can people living in extreme poverty in africa learn anything?(damn, this conversation reminds me of "human slaughterhouse" vision my brother had)

It can be a training ground to develop your abilities and control your mind by slowing it down to a low vibration. The solid physical dampens the thought = action spiral effectively, giving you a better control.

Having said that, why would anyone build such a horrific training school? And why would one still like to come here after a single experience.

If you really wanted to learn something it could have been at least painless and a little bit pleasent, with an option to painlessly abort the training. Oh, and most importantly, I dont see a need to destroy all the knowledge of youself before going to a school.

will you want to do something else if it is pleasant?

will you do it because of pleasure or because of it?

Quote
Having said that, why would anyone build such a horrific training school? And why would one still like to come here after a single experience.

Maybe because it's fun? I think that sometimes even suffering of a person can be fun to their deeper aspect - "higher self". I know that it's sick, but when a person has problems like a depression, their "higher self" probably has similar problems too(but from a different perspective)
I've also found out that when mind is perfectly controlled, there will be no problems with external reality too. I don't know how, but it works.
Another interesting perspective is that life is like a computer game, and this would explain why nearly all the problems are there.

There is so much hurt in the world true. But there is so much beauty too. All these "training school" ideas and other nonsense like it just explain and simplify way way too much the reality of our world.  I see what some skeptics mean when some of things people believe are almost designed to attempt to explain everything away somehow.

I've been suicidal in my life, and depressed and yep it feels yuk and never ending. However it's part of a spectrum of experience, why we have that spectrum I don't know, but I think it might be important.  At the other end of the scale, I sat on boat the other day-one that we seriously are considering buying-or one like it. She's 30 yrs old and gorgeous-I could "feel" her but that's all I'm saying on that one. Basically being there on her, and in the surroundings of water, countryside, peace etc..well it's the other end of the scale.

Some people find comfort and a weird kind of security in beautiful fluffy visions of the universe, and others-many others find that security in almost horrific, completely negative sounding viewpoints ("this place is hell" etc).  The truth is imho extremely unlikely to be anything like these two extremes.

I don't feel that there is fate and a guiding force in any simplistic way at all. The truth(s) are going to be more complete, more solid and more powerful than anything anyone has ever come up with-and they won't just be a product of human invention, though that IS probably going be a part of it as we are a part of that truth.

sloof,
can you elaborate ?

Pain and pleasure, reward and punishment..... can be very effective methods of trianing, as we all know. (For the less evolved).
I feel that its only natural that we find ourselves in such a system. Perhaps the next level in this game will be driven by a hunger for knowledge, desire to create, curiosity and enjoyment.

CaCoDeMoN,
I can see what you mean. I hold the view that we are only capable of one emotion - pleasure, at the highest level. The other emotions, including the negative emotions that we experience are 'colors' of it. From the perspective of a 'higher me', they are all same -- i.e a kind of enjoyment.

Quote from: PsanHaving said that, why would anyone build such a horrific training school? And why would one still like to come here after a single experience.

Have you asked yourself how much fun it would be to be an eagle? Or ride the wives as a dolphin for a day?

QuoteIf you really wanted to learn something it could have been at least painless and a little bit pleasent, with an option to painlessly abort the training.

"pain" is something we created ourselves and only exists in this physical realm ;P More important, pain contrasts pleasure. Because what is pleasure without pain?

QuoteOh, and most importantly, I dont see a need to destroy all the knowledge of youself before going to a school.

If you were learning a lesson on catholic monotheism, and were brought up in Islam, you would be reluctent to accept any facts or beliefs based on catholic knowledge. So, for the purpose of the class, you decide to keep an open mind and explore the subject further.

What im trying to say is, we cannot learn anything if all we are doing is looking at the situation and saying "Gosh, when my brother was murdered in my past life and i then went out and murdered his killer, things didnt turn out so well." and yada yada yada.

I mean think about it, if we remembered our past lives we would make NO progress as a species.

QuoteOr ride the wives.......

Now thats fun, only if their husbands dont mind :D  :twisted:

Anyway, why see only the bright side? Imagine the constant fear of being eaten and the day long hunt for a piece of meat. Is there any specific reason for you choosing the creatures on the top of food chain? However I dont deny that pleasure and pain exist together. The point is that this system of pleasure and pain has its merits and demerits, and we dont have any other option but to evolve through it. Once you realise that these things are controlling you every second, it becomes sort of annoying, IMO.

QuoteI mean think about it, if we remembered our past lives we would make NO progress as a species

Well, I thought about it, but I dont see it. Just think about your school, what would be your condition if you forget completely the things you learnt in the past standard, as soon as you enter the next standard ?

This is the only thing that bothers me about reincarnation, otherwise its a good enough theory. So my only guess is, they clear the past knowledge so that you don't escape this prison, sounds bad ;)

They dont clear past knowledge, it is there for you to find if youd like ;)

Memories from past lives can be remembered through meditation etc., just like memories from your early childhood can be remembered.

You say "They clear past knowledge" like someone else does it to you. You make a concsious decision IMO.

As for only seeing the bright side, there are 2 sides to everything. Pain and pleasure only control you if you let them, again IMO. There is no "system" of pleasure and pain, you bring these things upon yourself.

QuoteWell, I thought about it, but I dont see it. Just think about your school, what would be your condition if you forget completely the things you learnt in the past standard, as soon as you enter the next standard ?

Thats not a very good metaphor. I guess a more accurate metaphor would be, you go through kindergarden, graduate, and decide wether or not you want to move on to 1st grade. Once you start 1st grade you can of course remember all the past teachings,(this knowledge we call intuition) but you forget things like conversations you might have had with classmates, the grade you recieved in K, etc. etc. But using a school as a metaphor isnt very reliable in itself :P

Ben,
I acknowledge your answer. Right now I can't say whether whatever views I hold are true, its all a theory. So I will let the time decide, while I sit here on the fence :)

Quote from: CaCoDeMoN on April 18, 2005, 04:12:33
Another interesting perspective is that life is like a computer game, and this would explain why nearly all the problems are there.

Hi :)

From my understanding, yeah. Life is like one huge virtual simulator. Not sure if its necessarily a concentration camp, but think about it....what would happen if an intelligent virus took over the World of Warcraft servers?

Ive been aware from many seperate sources that if 3D existence is like a computer game, then the Egyptian god Thoth would be the master programmer. Incidentally, he also runs the Akashic records.

So why dont ya'll astral project to the record hall and say "Hey! Thoth-bird-man-dude! We need to have a talk!" and ask him all this stuff yourself? As the god of communication (among many many other things) I think its safe to say that wont annoy him, lol, and he most certainly would have something interesting to say or do. He is the trickster god as well, so it may not be what you expect. Hehe, and tell him Corie sent you!

:Love Light and Peace:

Corie

Holy crap necromancy. I was wondering why I got an email saying someone responded to a topic on a board I haven't been to in years. This topic is about 4 years old man.

Quote from: Blackstream on April 21, 2009, 15:33:35
Holy crap necromancy. I was wondering why I got an email saying someone responded to a topic on a board I haven't been to in years. This topic is about 4 years old man.

Yeah well Im a noob and it was an interesting topic. :)

I get useful communications from spirits and deities ALL the time!
I think the first 'reason' you should have listed is: "You were not ready to listen, hear, or learn.", But, I guess, if you had known that, you would have been. Also, what constitutes 'useful', as far as you are concerned? I mean, imagine having access to the internet, but there are no search engines? There's an amazing amount of incredibly useful information available, but no way for you to find it, or find the kind of information that would be most useful to you at this time. From your posting, I feel that it is unlikely that you know the first thing of any interacting-with-spirits techniques or magickal techniques. These are the equivalent of having a computer with an operating system in your language and the beginnings of the knowledge of URLs so that, given enough time, intelligence, and focus, you can 'patch together' your own "search engine". And then there's the phenomenon that there are a large number of magickal systems out there, and only a few (but no-one knows which until you try them and find out) are going to 'fit' you, work well for you, return any 'useful' results for you. A major barrier to learning any such techniques, or fully trying any such systems is a lack of readiness to listen, hear, or learn. You have to become open to the possibilities to experience any of them.

I fully hope that you realize the value of what I am trying to say, that from it you get a clue, and open to hearing, to learning, and that you find the way that works best for you!!!
Biggest Brightest Blessings!!!

Quote from: GorillaBait on March 25, 2005, 11:21:23
I think that there are two types of people who want to receive that kind of information from spirits:  People who want to increase their personal wisdom and power, and people who want to convey it to the world, i.e. the ones who go on about huge fleets of alien spaceships hurtling towards Earth to arrive in 20 years or some such.

It makes me think that the majority of such communications are false, from trickster spirits having a joke on us and manipulating our hopes and beliefs.  I also believe that for people who are ready to receive such information, spirits or angels or whatever sometimes reveal truths of a more or less profound nature, which if the person so chooses, they can reveal to those they also believe to be ready.  But a website full of crazy-sounding prophesies or truths, to me, is probably junk.

What is interesting is th holographic, synergistic nature of communication. For those ready to hear, listen, and learn, even the communications intended to convey the least sense possible can be an inspiration to discover the truths of whatever the hearer is focused on. Intense mystical truths can be found in the animated Pink Panther series. I know the writers did not intend them to be there, but to the open mind EVERYTHING is a clue, and those who are communicating cannot help but be used by spirits deep within all to get certain things across to those who are ready.
Those who aren't ready could receive the specifications necessary to create a Pentium 4 computer in 1976, and not be able to make heads or tails out of this amazingly useful data.

Quote from: Psan on March 26, 2005, 05:07:13
redcatherine,
Was that a poem?  :lol:
I think you misunderstood the problem that I'm addressing. I did not deny the possibility of spirit communication. The warnings, prediction of accidents, inspirations and art/romance etc are good enough signs of spirit communication.
We also have very direct communications which prove their existence.

Its also true that its very hard to communicate with higher beings, given our limitations and their limitations. But whenever such communications are realized, we get no new knowledge out of them which humanity can use for its evolution.

The unscientific and 'just for my own problems' approach is so unfortunate.

And if we did get "new knowledge which we  could use for our evolution", would we recognize it, would we use it, would we value it? So many people have problems with ideas like predestination, how do you know that a spirit who shares knowledge that helps you evolve is going to have your own ideals of where you want to grow toward at heart? So then your choice is to use the info or not, without knowing the result until you do. Meanwhile, all sorts of personal and group evolution techniques are out there, having become rife and popular since the 1900-s, but they take work, dedication, and an attitude where you don't mind if 'normal' people think you are crazy to apply and get results out of. Where do you think that all these techniques came from? I mean, few were dictated directly from the Spirit Realms, but most were inspired, then tried out and refined, by such people as Mathers, Crowley, Dionne Fortune, William Butler Yeats, Ernest Holmes, Jose Silva, Eric Bandler, the list goes on and on.

Quote from: Rob on March 26, 2005, 06:20:15
Indeed! Personally I wil be convinced when a spirit is able to lucidly and fully communication the working principles of the zero-point field or resonant healing. Either would be acceptable!!!!! And either would have the effect of massively reducing human suffering....I'm not holding me breath though

Imagine not being a college student, not being in any kind of relationship with the guy at all, and going up to a professor of Quantum Physics and saying anything like : "I will be convinced when I hear a lucid and jargon-free communication of Quantum Physics...but I'm not holding my breath." Do you think the result would be anything positive? Even if he was in a good mood, what indication does he have that you will be open to his explanation should he try to give it? Then if he gives it, it isn't going to be jargon-free...so it might not be as lucid as you seem to want. Why should you expect that someone who doesn't live in anything like our reality is not going to have completely different ideas that might be difficult to translate clearly? Why should the spirit have to do all the work in presenting the message in such a clear and your-world-view-way that you will accept it. Can you not see that making such requirements is a barrier to receiving that communication that you are putting up purposefully?

author=CaCoDeMoN link=topic=18156.msg157692#msg157692 date=1111861151]

Technology? Show me at least one channeling that has any technological value.

Ever heard of Nicolai Tesla? If you've read his original notes it is evident that he often communicated and worked out details of his devices with entities that were not physically there.


Also math has nearly nothing to do with nature.

What? Do you really think that Fractal Geometry would be anything more than just a bunch of nice-looking Julia-sets unless there were all kinds of confirmations of its usefulness in Nature?
The leaves on trees tend to grow in orders of geometrical progression, and throughout nature, anyone who looks can see applications of the the square-cube law.

In nature nearly everything is partially random, and in math nothing is random.

Oh right! There's no math having to do with perceived 'rules' of chaos or anything!

There's also no proof of connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence, and if there is, show it to me.

Show me any 'proofs' of things involving the energy body! The only one I've ever run across is that when the probe of a galvanometer is run across a person's skin and it goes across an acupuncture point, the needle in the gauge moves suddenly and intensely. This proves that some kind of energy difference involving electrical potential is exactly at the spots mapped thousands of years ago in China. It doesn't prove anything more than that. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still (Ben Franklin, I think). Because of that, it isn't proofs or facts that matter in regards to spiritual matters, magick, dealing with the energy body, or anything like these, it is experience! You can't have an experience that your mind is closed to the possibility of.

Physics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

I don't know the exact quote, but the guy who discovered the benzine molecule first saw its shape in a dream.

I think that best motivation comes from within, and spirits are not needed at all for humans to create something beautiful. Courage and compassion are taught by parents/life, not spirits.
Also show me a definite proof of "spirits preventing tragedies and causualties". Of course I am not talking about things like one prevented death, but something bigger. Spirits don't prevent things like in Iraq and Sudan.

And would we want them to interfere in how we work out our free-willed destinies if they did? There are records of such interventions, but only when most of the population involved has an open-to-spirit outlook before the intervention begins - - - see the various miracles of Our Lady of Guadalupe, not to mention the entire life of Joan of Arc.

It's not true. I think that Angels are just too proud to communicte with people, they consider human race unworthy.

It's not that. When an Angel learns something s-he knows it forever, s-he can't un-learn it and adjust to swiftly changing events. Angels do communicate with humans but so rarely that the events involved are catastrophic, and then rarely recorded. The vast majority of Angels learned how humans were when they first interacted with us, thousands and tens of thousands of years ago. Having that idea of who we are, why would they be interested in communicating with us at all? Understand that when you communicate with a Devil, while you are interacting, it automatically activates and inspires all the baser parts of your nature,, and thus when you communicate with an Angel, not only does it activate and inspire all the higher parts of your nature, but you activate and inspire all the baser parts of its nature. Why would anyone want to go thru that experience? The motivation has to be truly intense to get over the negatives of the experience itself. It's not about worthiness, it's about how things are. Imagine that a homeless person who hasn't bathed in years, continually picks his nose and butt, and has Tourette's Syndrome has the ability to summon you whenever he wants, trying to beg or steal the good things you have. Are you going to want to interact with him much? Regardless of his innate worth as a living being, are you going to enjoy interacting with him?

If it isn't so, why then communicating with demons is extremely easy,

There are several reasons why communicating with either Devils or Demons is easy, and the primary one is that our intense emotional reactions are like luxury-food to them. Imagine being summoned by someone who always looks more beautiful than you, who has a better attitude to everything than you, and who radiates chocolate and fine liquers. Aren't you going to go out of your way to make it easy for such a being to summon you? Then there's how reactive we are. Humans are easily scared, and fear is almost exactly to Demons what chocolate is to most women. Tasty and intoxicating. Another reason is that, because of how automatically they activate and inspire our own baser natures, when a Mage can heal a Demon or a Devil, his own baser nature is healed very intensely, and he goes thru intense personal evolution. Angels don't need to be healed, and neither do our own higher-natures. Of course, it is quite rare that a Mage even tries to summon a Demon or Devil in order to help it, or can follow thru when that is the intent.

much easier than communicating with dead relatives?

What techniques have you tried? When have you tried them? Do you understand that the very techniques by which Devils and Demons are summoned can be used for any spirit? Or are you just talking out of your hat?
[/quote]

Sorry, delay caused me to double-post.

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg157785#msg157785 date=1111907362]

Thats right. There are none.

Physicists are far away from spiritual activities,

Depends on the Physicist. Quantum Physics is approaching reflection of quite a few mystical/ metaphysical theories from the past.

so there's no chance that they would communicate with spirits for proposing theories.

If you want to deal with matter, investigate matter, become a hero of matter, you incarnate into a material body. Why would discarnate spirits be interested in the whole hypothesis, test, theory sequence concerning matter?

And as we all know very few theories survive the test of time, so anything if it was communicated 100 years back to physicists is wrong !

Truly? So sure are you? What if the information given was just not recognized or applied correctly, or was given to those, like you, not ready to hear? Ever heard of broadcast power? Free electricity? Radical idea, but JP Morgan seemed to have major problems with it.

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg157789#msg157789 date=1111909425]

So, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?

I'd tell you, but you wouldn't understand half of the terms.

Oh, heck, why not!

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.


How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?

By the time you began, you would have moved, since on the Astral you instantly go wherever you are thinking about. Think about the Rocketeer movie, where the rocket-pack--wearer would turn toward whatever he was looking at.

How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

Error. Is like asking how much more the volume of space on the surface of Luna is compared to all of space. The space on Luna is a subset of all space. The Buddhic plane is one of an almost infinite number of Astral Layers. It might be important, when asking these questions, to research and know a little bit of what you are talking about before you try.

I wouldn't be surprised if you find these questions stupid and are laughing on me. But hopefully I conveyed the point that only physical plane yields to mathematical analysis.

Okay. When has anyone said anything that opposes that?

And perhaps we dont need spirits to tell us that, we are spirits ourselves who are in the best position to see that.

What we do expect (is) that if a higher spirit on a higher plane has learnt any such laws about their own planes, which can help us here to progress spiritually, should have communicated them by some kind of systematic means.

Why? Do college students who aren't majoring in education visit kindergarden and systematically communicate anything to the kids? If they did, what would the kids retain and use? It's not about worth, it is about our ability to be open to the info, and then to process the info, to integrate it into our lives.

But obviously that has not happened, and we are wondering the whys and hows of that in this thread.

Not just that, but the way you have presented yourselves, you seemly aggressively and smugly closed-minded, so even if there were such communications for you, you will not acknowledge or use them.

Its a different matter altogether that you chose to support the "claims" of someone you know for whatever reasons.

Well I dont know what CaCoDeMoN is asking here, but I feel he is just saying that her claims are just her opinions and personal experiences, not based on scientific experiments.

Again, science is not the only way to do things or discover things. Since these areas are affected by the quality of the thoughts of the explorers, the scientific way automatically makes certain experiences impossible. You seem to be trying to say that the only useful information anyone ever gets is discovered or communicated by way of science only. If you'd said that from the start, I'd have ignored you completely.

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg157960#msg157960 date=1112013789]

How are you gonna effectively map astral when everyone perceives it differently? Even your own perceptions of the same thing (e.g your room) in astral differ from visit to visit. The liquid nature of it defys any such attempts. There are no directions and no time, no laws and no maths holds. Bruce will surely map it, but it will be his own version.

What we need here is different pointers, perhaps of mental nature, which can be unambiguously shared by all.

That already exists, in the form of the Astral Layers. The 'lowest' one and the easiest to get to (automatically once Projecting) is a complete reflection of all of Physical existence. Then, depending on the culture in which the mapper is based, various layers are either numbered or named or both. The last thorough such mapping was done thousands of years ago in India, although a vague-er map was created more recently called the 'Tree of Life' figure of the Qabalah.

Then we can proceed to invent a logic not based on numbers, so that one can follow those pointers using a special astral logic and arrive at some destination without having any previous experience of that astral location. This is of course my guess only.

Sounds like you're ready to dive deeply into the Qabalah.

author=Chaoslogic link=topic=18156.msg158100#msg158100 date=1112082718]
I'm a bit angry here. Why is that everyone we channel insists on being self-help guide instead of providing us with interesting knowledge? Practical knowledge? I don't care about the other planets we're never going to discover in this life time. Where's the cure for AIDs or cancer that would save hundreds of lives? If it's in the Ashkashic, as all recorded knowledge of the past, present, and future is (and the certainty of a future discovery of cures is an inevitable possibility, and not a matter of "if" it is discovered), it should be accessible! So where is this information?

INSERT: I'm getting the intuitive feeling here that they could tell us, but thatwould be cheating. It still doesn't answer why projectionists and channelers couldn't do this.

Your feeling about 'cheating' is correct. They could do this. They can do this. They do do this all the time, but then we stop the game of existence, define what is cheating, remove the actions of cheating, penalize those who cheated, rewind time a bit, and start everything up again (this is often what perceptions of 'missing time' are about). It does no good to an individual to take away his/her chosen challenge, the way s/he wants to learn about matter and mortality. It's like helping a butterfly emerge from its cocoon without struggling. The struggle is necessary to form its wings properly that it might fly. If you help it, its wings don't form right and it cannot ever fly. So, when you look at helping or healing a person, whom are you helping? Cheating to take away a person's challenges is even worse in effect on the growth of those involved. If there are cures for AIDS accessible on the Astral (and there are), the thing to do is to get the person afflicted skilled at Astral Projection, so if it is part of his/her pre-scripted way of learning and being entertained, then s/he can involve it in his/her story.

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg158440#msg158440 date=1112279587]
It can be a training ground to develop your abilities and control your mind by slowing it down to a low vibration. The solid physical dampens the thought = action spiral effectively, giving you a better control.

Exactly.

Having said that, why would anyone build such a horrific training school? And why would one still like to come here after a single experience.

The lessons learned here, the memories of this place are amazingly persistent.

If you really wanted to learn something it could have been at least painless and a little bit pleasent, with an option to painlessly abort the training.

Yeah. Such lessons don't 'stick' at all. They are incredibly forget-able. No-one sticks thru the rough periods in such places. Try out Yahoo chess, and watch how many opponents will quit a losing-game rather than seeing it thru and possibly getting enough negative experience to learn from it. The 'abort' is painless, and doesn't affect their rating, where a loss would definitely do so.

See, you can find metaphysical lessons almost anywhere!

Oh, and most importantly, I dont see a need to destroy all the knowledge of youself before going to a school.

A large part of the 'adventure' is self-re-discovery. Would any of the Survival shows have been nearly as entertaining if everyone had access to all of their things and resources? So life of Earth is like one tremendous 'Survival reality TV show' where the most important resource of each participant, his/her memory of self and abilities, has not been removed but veiled and passworded so that it can't be accessed without a lot of personal work.

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg160979#msg160979 date=1113944698]
Pain and pleasure, reward and punishment..... can be very effective methods of training, as we all know. (For the less evolved).

Nah, they work on pretty much everyone! What's most intense about this existence is that the relief from pain is itself an intense pleasure!

I feel that its only natural that we find ourselves in such a system. Perhaps the next level in this game will be driven by a hunger for knowledge, desire to create, curiosity and enjoyment.

This "level" is driven by those for some people (or you wouldn't have the terms to use).

Quote from: phantoms_rose on April 21, 2009, 01:03:06
Hi :)

From my understanding, yeah. Life is like one huge virtual simulator. Not sure if its necessarily a concentration camp, but think about it....what would happen if an intelligent virus took over the World of Warcraft servers?

Ive been aware from many seperate sources that if 3D existence is like a computer game, then the Egyptian god Thoth would be the master programmer. Incidentally, he also runs the Akashic records.

So why dont ya'll astral project to the record hall and say "Hey! Thoth-bird-man-dude! We need to have a talk!" and ask him all this stuff yourself? As the god of communication (among many many other things) I think its safe to say that wont annoy him, lol, and he most certainly would have something interesting to say or do.

Indeed, but be ready to have to make agreements with him to share the knowledge you learn, and be delegated the training of someone who comes to Him that He doesn't have time for. That, in a nutshell, is a lot of what happened to me.

He is the trickster god as well, so it may not be what you expect.

Knowledge is tricky! Pretty much all knowledge gods are trickster gods (Hermes, Coyote, etc).

Hehe, and tell him Corie sent you!

:Love Light and Peace:

Corie

QuoteI'd tell you, but you wouldn't understand half of the terms.

Oh, heck, why not!

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.

That is not good enough, lol.

You can't just write an equation like that- you need to define the terms and operations involved. For instance, what does the (~) indicate? Equations like that have no meaning if the terms are not defined.  I can say
De= {5(wL^4)}/384EI, but if I don't say De-deflection, or w-uniform load, the equation is gibberish.

I am legitimately interested- you should explain what you have written. It is of no value to speak to an Arabic person, and Answer their questions in Russian, unless you are going to translate for them  :wink:

Quote from: Stillwater on May 16, 2009, 13:44:39
That is not good enough, lol.

You can't just write an equation like that- you need to define the terms and operations involved. For instance, what does the (~) indicate? Equations like that have no meaning if the terms are not defined.  I can say
De= {5(wL^4)}/384EI, but if I don't say De-deflection, or w-uniform load, the equation is gibberish.

I am legitimately interested- you should explain what you have written. It is of no value to speak to an Arabic person, and Answer their questions in Russian, unless you are going to translate for them  :wink:

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.

Vtnl = 'Volitional', meaning an entity that can focus its will on something. F is 'focus'. ^ is exponential, so ^2 is 'squared'. lim is 'limit'. A = 'acceptance'. The operator is not " ~ ", but " )~ ", and I don't quite get what it means, but it means something as much more intense than exponential than factorial is more intense than addition.

So, the maximum value of Chi in an area is determined by (racial energy throughput times minimum spatial sample) [intensified at a greater value than exponentially](the will of the volitionals involved times their Focus squared) limited by the general Acceptance minus the Acceptance of the group of volitionals in that area.

Got it?
I'm not sure that I do.

Quote from: PurplAstrlMagma on May 30, 2009, 16:12:02

The operator is not " ~ ", but " )~ ", and I don't quite get what it means, but it means something as much more intense than exponential than factorial is more intense than addition.

For the non-math geeks, 'factorial 5' would be 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1; and the result would be '120'. Since multiplication is 'only really fast addition', this could be represented as (5+5+5+5) = 20, (20+20+20) = 60, (60+60) = 120, (120+0) = 120. So I'm sure that )~ can be worked out thru multiple applications of the exponential operator, but I'm not exactly sure how.

Obviously we have gotten a bit off track :-)

I have pondered this question once before and its a bit of a doozie of a question, here is why:

First of all, what most people don't understand is that spirits with a good identity, we will go under assumption that all spirits are of similar form (race), tell us nothing but the things that matter. They can tell us there is eternal life, there is a god, not to sin, compassion, love :-(, ect.

When we ask ourselves, what is useful? Surely nothing interpersonal is useful. Anything I could ask for in a greedy fashion is downright silly. Something like healing knowledge is very useful, and has been given to quite a few.

Ok the big one, where is the cure for cancer? Well, quite honestly I dont think I have ever met a person who asked for it. Professor Howard Storm, very famous man these days got all of his questions answered by a christian angel. Since I am sure there are many different religions on this forum I wont go into too much detail, but time and time again we hear stories of prayer healing things. If faith is all a person needs to live their <100 year life, and staying unselfish. Then it becomes quite obvious: All knowledge that we need to know is already here (within your religious texts), NDEs, because anything pressing another definition of useful is likely to be selfish.

David Herzog can cure. I can cure. Faith can cure...

If someone comes up with an intelligent 'useful' information, I will take this a bit more seriously.

Thanks, and great topic :-)

Quotetx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.

Vtnl = 'Volitional', meaning an entity that can focus its will on something. F is 'focus'. ^ is exponential, so ^2 is 'squared'. lim is 'limit'. A = 'acceptance'. The operator is not " ~ ", but " )~ ", and I don't quite get what it means, but it means something as much more intense than exponential than factorial is more intense than addition.

So, the maximum value of Chi in an area is determined by (racial energy throughput times minimum spatial sample) [intensified at a greater value than exponentially](the will of the volitionals involved times their Focus squared) limited by the general Acceptance minus the Acceptance of the group of volitionals in that area.

Thanks, purple. What are the units involved, though? What quantity, for instance, is focus, or "volitionals"
measured in?

Most likely though they know you don't deserve to hear the answer to the information.

Quote from: Stillwater on June 07, 2009, 22:40:04
Thanks, purple. What are the units involved, though? What quantity, for instance, is focus, or "volitionals"
measured in?

I wish I knew, or could understand the answer when Source tells me. I've asked for explanations of the answer, and those answers just confuse me too. Sorry.

"but even the so called 'higher beings' just go round and round in circles with meaningless gibberish."

It's true. The ones who call themselves 'beings of light' or 'higher beings' became higher beings the same way the rich got their money - they suck the life force out of anyone who can't defend themselves. So when you look to them for information, they're not going to give you any answers because they don't know the answers. What they DO know is how to portray themselves as an all-encompassing, all-knowing force you cannot defy.

Well has ANYONE ever been told of anything from higher biengs/spirits in the OBE world which was useful? surely it cant ALL be nonsense what they come out with. Anyone been able to confirm anything they've said?

I've gotten some useful information from spirits, but a rule of thumb is, never listen to someone who says they're higher than you. That alone says they are liars

K what did he tell you please that was useful? TY.

I've gotten a lot of useful information too.

Quote from: Psan on March 24, 2005, 07:16:48
I can only guess the reasons for it -
1. Its all fake, no one can communicate with spirits really.

That's not it.

Quote2. Spirits don't want to interfere with normal workings of the world, so don't pass any higher knowledge down.

That's true sometimes.

Quote3. They want us to learn in a hard way, using our own intelligence.

That's true sometimes too.  But you say "hard," really it is natural and inevitable, so nothing really has to be said, that we won't figure out ourselves in due time due to necessity caused by eternal change all across the universe.

Quote4. They do say things in thought forms which are useful, but our physically rooted minds distort it and filter it out during communications.

There's truth to this too.  But I would say it's more our selfish and material desires that cause all of the distortion, and more critically render the knowledge useless. The people that really "got it" before the rest of us already left society and dedicate most/all their time to meditation.  We're still stuck here learning to get on with it until we can get on without it again.

Quote5. They think that we have enough knowledge about the physical and non-physical to carry on, and there is no need to over burden us with things which we wont use and understand anyway.

I'm sure this is the case sometimes too.  Not to mention hardly anyone is ever listening or would even know how to any particular spirit.

Quote6. They are only as intelligent as we are, so don't posses any more knowledge then we do.

I would say they all possess "different" knowledge than we do, and that also applies to all your human peers on an individual level.

Quote7. They are not interested in physical at all.

Only out of ignorance should they not be interested! 'For every motion in heaven, there is a corresponding motion on Earth.' - and vice-versa

Quote8. They have got rid of all things related to physical and cant seem to relate to them anymore. So our questions about physics are Chinese to them.

There are obvious answers to huge scientific problems that science itself will never be able to approach without deep modifications.  There are known today, have been known for thousands of years by many different people, but cause much scientific confusion and can't be scientifically quantified.  Pi is one example of this.  I could give reasons as to why no algorithm can predict the digits of pi, that it has to be measured, but it would probably classify as "meaningless gibberish" or however you put it.  But I would still say I have a better understanding of the number than modern science has.

Quote9. They are afraid that we would misuse the knowledge.

There are already natural mechanisms that prevent this, though they are very hard to explain in so many words.

Quote10. They prefer to communicate useful things via dreams, inspirations, insights, gut feelings, intuitions and such.

People are typically much more receptive to energy from "outside" in those states, yes.

Quote11. They are already in full communication with our 'higher selves', so there is no need to repeat the things here on earth.

Something like that.  Life-force (including "spirits," the "secret of the universe") is already present all over your body, and is what actually makes your body alive and able to grow, adapt, etc., from the DNA level (and below) and up, but mostly on very tiny levels where all kinds of miraculous things can take place.  To be able to make larger parts of your body able to resonate with these energies on a larger scale, to make your body fit and healthy as possible, to open up your chakras, raise kundalini, etc., is to bring this coherence already within your body to an extraordinary level where it manifests on a completely different level, through your own attention and care.

For anyone who has recieved information from higher spirits - has there been anything you have verified and could not had known if they had not told you? for example maybe they had told you something about the near future that happened as they said or maybe they gave you information on solving a problem which would had been alot harder for you to do alone.

Guess there hasnt.

They do, all the time..prehaps your not listening

I've had things that were verified and things that were not.  I learned to tell the difference in how the voices made me feel.  If it was a voice that sounded as if someone was next to me, and I felt disconnected from the answer, I discount it.  But if it the answer seems to come from deep inside, and I 'know' it's true, it is.
Now I can't tell you if it's 'guides', or what, but because of the quality of the stuff I'm going to go with 'Higher Self'.