Evil Marriages???

[Sentential]

Thankyou boydster for summing up what I could not lol.... I dunno I just couldnt find the right words, but you most certianly have.[8D]

[jilola]

Boydster:

quote:There is a repulsion effect which is overcome by the internal passions of those involved and a thrill is definitely experienced.

Strange thought. How would such a repulsion manifest itself?
Certainly you agree that many gay couples are extremely happy in their relationship, more so than many hetero couples.
Or do you refer to society's repulsion which is entirely based on the physical illusion and the prejudices of each society.

2cents & L&L
joun

[kiauma]

"Homosexual sex appears to me to be kind of like pushing the positive ends of two magnets together instead of a positive and a negative. There is a repulsion effect which is overcome by the internal passions of those involved and a thrill is definitely experienced. In the long term though, I think it messes up the energy fields of those involved and they suffer in a number of debilitating ways."

Or, Boydster, it could be one of many otherwise benign and meanigless conditions that presents situations to allow others to expose their own rationalized prejudices - but hey, I'm just 'thinking' here too. []

[kiauma]

http://www.guidancetochangeyourlife.com/gaysoulmaking.html

http://www.iraniangaydoctors.com/gaysoul.htm

http://www.gayspiritvisions.org/

"http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1899171827/104-9378536-6549569?v=glance"

[kiauma]

I would be interested to hear his clarification.

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

"Homosexual sex appears to me to be kind of like pushing the positive ends of two magnets together instead of a positive and a negative. There is a repulsion effect which is overcome by the internal passions of those involved and a thrill is definitely experienced. In the long term though, I think it messes up the energy fields of those involved and they suffer in a number of debilitating ways."

Or, Boydster, it could be one of many otherwise benign and meanigless conditions that presents situations to allow others to expose their own rationalized prejudices - but hey, I'm just 'thinking' here too. []

Kiauma,

I can only give you my word; I have no axe to grind here. And, as you noticed, I carefully worded my statement as an opinion.

That said, my opinion is based on direct observation, not academic speculation. I'm not sure what you hoped to do with those links you published. I explored them all fairly thoroughly, and it would appear that you may have perceived me to have implied that gays are all soulless sinners who have no desire for or understanding of higher consciousness or constructive activities. I can assure you that I do not think that way.

When I meet a person for the first time and get to know them during a conversation, I see first a soul. I see that souls motivations in life, his burdens, his skills, his weaknesses. Next I begin to take note of the conditions which this particular soul is experiencing in this life, in this body and social situation they are currently in. I get grief from my wife and friends because after such an encounter, I'm completely clueless as far as that persons clothes, hair or eye color, nationality, etc., all the outer stuff is kind of lost on me, other than how those things reflect in the self image of that soul.

My point is that I'm quite beyond the kind of shallow, biased perspective you may be mistaking me for indulging in. As I said, I have no axe to grind with any group, except possibly with those who are wantonly destructive, such as organized crime, satanists or pedophiles who hurt and destroy children, etc... My goal in life is to help others find their highest spiritual path and to find peace and happiness.

[kiauma]

Yes, you worded it as an opinion, but as if to state it as fact you further qualified it in your clarification that there is no speculation involved, that you base it on "Direct observation."

Why specify that it is only your opinion, then further try to validate it as fact?  What a curious turn.  Honestly, if you feel it is fact, why don't you just say so?

Of course, that homosexuals suffer implicitly because of their homosexual unions is not a fact any more than heterosexual people suffer a plethora of mental, physical, spiritual, and energetic maladies in heterosexual unions implicitly because they are heterosexual unions.  Okay, there may be a couple exceptions in both cases - unwanted pregnancy being one, the stigma of homosexuality (by others or themselves) being another - which then makes it a toss up which situation causes more suffering, because what is inherint to one situation is impossible in the other, and vise versa.

My point is that I'm quite beyond the kind of shallow, biased perspective you may be mistaking me for indulging in.

I am often shallow and biased, and the bull still smells the same.

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by runlola

Boydster: "Homosexual sex appears to me to be kind of like pushing the positive ends of two magnets together instead of a positive and a negative. There is a repulsion effect which is overcome by the internal passions of those involved and a thrill is definitely experienced. In the long term though, I think it messes up the energy fields of those involved and they suffer in a number of debilitating ways."

In this case, I believe Boydster is referring to homosexual sex being experienced between two people who are actually heterosexuals. According to the book "Hands of Light" written by a psychic healer who can see the aura, women & men have different chakra activity that complements each other during sex and is very healthy for the energy body.

I don't see homosexuals and heterosexuals as being different. What I see are souls incarnated in bodies for the purpose of learning opportunities. And all of us souls are constantly making decisions. And there are consequences for every decision. We all have the same basic goal, reunion with our higher self and greater opportunities for growth and creative expression.

That said, my comments about gay love-making were meant to be a dispassionate description of the basic energy/physics of the phenomenon. I didn't mean it to be a commentary on rightness or wrongness.

As Runlola mentioned, men and women's physical/energetic bodies, the temporary housing for the soul, are different from each other, they are complementary, ergo my metaphor of the positive and negative ends of magnets and their behavior in proximity. We are made that way. Like it or not.

But people are much more than just the sum of their bodies, their animal passions and desires. There is the soul in there. And it's quite possible, actually common, for a soul to feel out of step with her surroundings, family, social status or sexual situation. This is because we jump from body to body, situation to situation in the process called reincarnation. So far, have I said anything un-PC? Hope not.

So the soul is the captain of the ship more or less. And if the soul decides, before birth, to change from being a male after 6 times in a row of being male, to a female, and then has a hard time adjusting to her own decision, does that sound a little bit like how some gay people describe their lives and their feelings?

As for the issue of gay sex, the body and energetic structures still are what they are. When two people of the same sex put their genitals together there isn't a very good match, physically or energy/polarity-wise. It doesn't mean that those two souls don't love each other, or that they can't be happy together. But energetically speaking, the activity of the chakras and their anchor points and influence in the physical body get eroded over time instead of the intended refreshment and complimentary activity noted in hetero bonding. It's like pushing an organ or body part to do something it was not designed to do--erosion and failure can happen, depending on the frequency of occurance and the overall vibrancy of the organism. I don't think it matters, as Runlola asked, whether the people involved are self defined gay or not--I see only souls inhabiting bodies experiencing the results of their decision. I don't see right or wrong unless someone without a choice is being harmed.

So now how am I doing on the PC scale?? Honestly, I'm just describing what I see.

As an aside, to tie this all in with the original post of this thread, I see the Catholic church as having a lot of problems. Calling people evil is a serious thing which I usually reserve for murderers and such. I think the institution still has to go on and do it duty to those who follow that path. But they need to fix their internal problems before they start legislating morality.

[Nay]

I came back to this thread twice, thinking I might have  something else to contribute, but...naw, Boydster summed it up quite elequently..[]

Thanks ~ Nay []

[kiauma]

I apologise Boydster.  I questioned you and your (still) unqualified statement that homosexuals "suffer in a number of debilitating ways" as a direct result of their sexual orientation, when it appears you are apparently a psycho-energetic Medium Guru of unprecedented caliber.  You even make the passivley aggressive implication that the basis of my comments are simply PC!  You have humbled me sir.  You have shamed me.  You haven't answered my points, nor have we even discussed my own knowledge on the subject, but you know you know better (prejudice) and never account for a persons outer appearence (bias), so actually sorting out particulars obviously isn't for the likes of one as high as yourself.

Perhaps I will find some real dialog with some of the other plebians, others more on my level.

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by runlola



Could a homosexual who looks & acts very much like the opposite sex also have the charka activity of the gender they identify with? Wouldn't their minds influence their chakra activity? I have known some healthy homosexuals who seem to be the happiest people I have ever met. Why do you think they call it Gay?

Physical matter is certainly pliable and subject to our wills. Yes, the way we think affects our physical/energetic structure, for sure.

But even with gender changing operations there are still some things which are probably not changed. For instance, the energy channels along the spine are arranged differently in men and women. With men the Ida starts at the left of Sushumna (at the base chakra) and the Pingala on the right. From there they proceed upward in a distinctly ordered interwoven spiral up to the crown chakra. In women, the position is reversed, which makes for a different polarity. It seems doubtful that this type of basic circuitry can change very easily. And these kinds of structures do have an effect on our outer lives, our organs and glands and such.

As for whether gay people are happy or compassionate or whatever, I agree with you. I have personal friends who are gay and they are beautiful souls.

Please don't think that I'm trying to assert that gay people are all sick or sinful or somethinglike that. That's not my point at all.

I read an ongoing discussion where some people were discussing this issue. I felt that since this is a forum for ideas that I'd add my own. And I welcome debate.

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

I apologise Boydster.  I questioned you and your (still) unqualified statement that homosexuals "suffer in a number of debilitating ways" as a direct result of their sexual orientation, when it appears you are apparently a psycho-energetic Medium Guru of unprecedented caliber.  You even make the passivley aggressive implication that the basis of my comments are simply PC!  You have humbled me sir.  You have shamed me.  You haven't answered my points, nor have we even discussed my own knowledge on the subject, but you know you know better (prejudice) and never account for a persons outer appearence (bias), so actually sorting out particulars obviously isn't for the likes of one as high as yourself.

Perhaps I will find some real dialog with some of the other plebians, others more on my level.

Kiauma,

Obviously I can't prove anything to anyone by typing something on a keyboard. We're all expressing opinions here. It's the nature of a forum. It's implicit, or did I miss something? If some guy says, "I had my first OBE last night!!", do you say, "prove it"?

Everything that I've expressed here on this subject is a product of my personal observations and interior reflexion, not medical studies, not polls, no proof. As to answering your challenges, I did the best I could. If I failed, then sorry.

I would point out though that everyone involved is pretty even keeled except you. Your last couple of posts resembled emotion-filled personal attacks.

[kiauma]

Your last couple of posts resembled emotion-filled personal attacks.

Sorry you take it that way.

Where I am coming from is the rather trite but personally held beliefs that being good is not causing others to feel bad, and that we create our own worlds.  While I do not expect blessings, your attitude, which I take to be reflected in your words, as applying to homosexuality in general, implies the impossibility of the redemption of homosexuals because, to use a slightly different wording, it is against nature - the energy structures are 'repulsed'.  

If my words sound strong, it is because you appear deaf to what you are saying, and the implications of what you are saying.  No, it is you that is repulsed, and you cannot see it.

Yes, men and women have energy structure differences - so does a violinist and a chef.  This is far more complex than a simple yes-or-no it-fits-or-it-don't question - far more complex - and no one needs yet another voice (like out of the past) complicating and obstructing these people from finding out who they really are, and finding joy in who they really are.

These days 'homosexual' is a loaded word, loaded with stigma and preconcieved notions about what it is and why it is so.  Let me give you another word Boydster, 'Negro'.  Not long ago, that word too was loaded with connotations, like 'nature' had place these people below the white man in evolution, that God had put him there to serve the white man.   Now, it simply means a black man - a human being who is black.  I look forward to the day when 'homosexual' is also stripped of superstition and ignorance - the day when it simply refers to a persons sexual orientation.

Of course, that is just my opinion.  That is just my hope.

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

I apologise Boydster.  I questioned you and your (still) unqualified statement that homosexuals "suffer in a number of debilitating ways" as a direct result of their sexual orientation, when it appears you are apparently a psycho-energetic Medium Guru of unprecedented caliber.  You even make the passivley aggressive implication that the basis of my comments are simply PC!  You have humbled me sir.  You have shamed me.  You haven't answered my points, nor have we even discussed my own knowledge on the subject, but you know you know better (prejudice) and never account for a persons outer appearence (bias), so actually sorting out particulars obviously isn't for the likes of one as high as yourself.

Perhaps I will find some real dialog with some of the other plebians, others more on my level.

No Kiauma, I haven't seen anything in your posts of your knowledge on the subject. I haven't seen any point, counterpoint, no scientific discussion at all; I read your posts over and over and mostly all I see is an opinion you have about me personally. What I keep seeing is your speculation and analysis of my reasons for posting what I have. You used the actual words, "prejudiced" (twice) and "biased", along with a rather transparent attempt to lump me in with racists.

Do you have anything of substance to say on the subject? Why don't you enlighten me? Oh, also, my comments had nothing to do with the social aspects of homosexuality. My two main comments were:

1.That sexual preference can form as a result of habits and momentums carried over from past lives while inhabiting a series of bodies of a single gender.

2.Sex between people of the same gender resembles (clairvoyantly, to me) pushing the positive ends of two magnets together--there is a repulsion effect in the energetic structures which alters the flow of spiritual light energy, and can cause problems in physical organs and systems which correspond to these lower chakras involved.

I would add that I think oral sex as well as anal sex between anyone, hetero or gay, causes similar problems also. And one more thing which I left out originally because I was concerned with provoking an explosion, is that these activities all involve the light stored in the base chakra, the light of creation. And esoterically, this light and the structure involved are directly linked to the immune system.

In an honest attempt to avoid having this topic run over a cliff again, I did NOT SAY that gays are beyond redemption (your words and disparaging implication)(redemption from what???), I did NOT SAY that all gay sex instantly causes immune system problems. I've never used or implied the concepts of right or wrong, good or bad. In case you thought I did, read what I wrote again. Please!

Kiauma, if you'd really like to discuss these (specific) two ideas then I'm interested in hearing your knowledge on the subject. If you again devolve into berating me personally, then I'm pretty much done with this thread. It's up to you.

[Nay]

Wow..ok ya'll..call off the dogs..[]

One thing though..

quote:I would add that I think oral sex as well as anal sex between anyone, hetero or gay, causes similar problems also

Please tell me I'm not going to mess up any chakras for the first part of this statement..LOL!

If that is the case...omg..I'm soooooo done for it...[]

*disclaimer*  sorry if I caused anyone nausea for that statement, thinking it was too much info..but had to be said..[]

Nay [8D]

[James S]

quote:Originally posted by Nay
Please tell me I'm not going to mess up any chakras for the first part of this statement..LOL!

If that is the case...omg..I'm soooooo done for it...[]

Hehehe....
Gotta agree with you on that one.

Boydster,
you just take all the fun out of it!

[]
James.

[kiauma]

Whoa!  Take it easy Boydster, before you pop a chakra or something.  I don't consider it a crime to be a missionary man, but if all you saw was personal attacks then maybe stepping back would be the next best step.

In an honest attempt to avoid having this topic run over a cliff again, I did NOT SAY that gays are beyond redemption (your words and disparaging implication)(redemption from what???), I did NOT SAY that all gay sex instantly causes immune system problems. I've never used or implied the concepts of right or wrong, good or bad. In case you thought I did, read what I wrote again. Please!

Boydster, I have already run through my thinking on this, and if you can't see it, well then you just can't see it.  I can accept that.

I am not saying there isn't something to your views and your observations, however for my part I find a complete lack of the fundamental link between spiritual energies and emotions, a complete lack of the BIG picture in your statements.  Thousands upon thousands of homosexuals, male and female, enjoy perfectly fruitful long term relationships with extremely healthy energy systems and long life, and have since the dawn of man (which I infer from the prevelance of homosexuality even amoung primitive tribes, when there was such a thing), and do to this day, which is completely inconsistent with your statements.  

If by 'immune trouble' you are making some veiled reference to AIDS, I would remind you that AIDS affects str8s just as well, and that it is only a phenomenom of the last few decades.

You seem in a very self-satisfied place, and I certainly don't mean to threaten that, however you might want to take a peek outside your 'observation circle' once in a while, just to see what other perceptions might make sense to look for.  Not to is the essence of bigotry.

"No matter how gently one pulls the trigger, a gun kills just as dead."
-Unknown

[Nay]

I think both of you have great points! [^]

It seems like ya'll are saying pretty much the same thing...so for the life of me, I can't figure out why you're arguing.[]  Guess I'm having a blonde day..[]

Let's talk more about what James and I were talking about..LOL [)]

Nay

[Aileron]

whoo! What an exhausting topic.
I have to agree the fun seems sucked right outta here.

I'd like to say that I disagree however about sexual preference being a result of past lives. Though I believe in reincarnation, and I do think that it affects who we are to a point, I'm inclined to feel that our current incarnations tune into what our needs are towards people whether of the same gender or not.
Certain people are just connected (Perhaps through past lives)and need each other. Our desires from past lives through different embodied genders should only have the minimal of roles in our current states.

I also dont think certain sexual "outlets," unless corrupted, have anything to do with twisted energies.
People believe natural law and the way we have been raised socially seems the inexplicable ways our in and outs should work, and in one essence it is true, but just because the creative energies flow through the masculine symbol and into the feminine to create, does not represent error by nature if two people decide to have oral sex.
Many animals in nature have sex with their own gender (more than you would know), and dolphins being the only other species to have sex for the pleasure should symbolize humanities need to connect not only on one level but many.

We arent one dimensional creatures, we need the experience of the entire universe.

I'd also like to point out, that many homosexuals are acutally quite active, if not more than many heterosexuals, in trying to stay healthy. Many being new age fanatics, practicing yogi's, vegans/ vegetarians. I have many friends who are homosexual, and they are all much healthier than I am, and have a much better connection to their surroundings and environment.
Not to say all who are gay and lesbian are strict health nuts, but I have found a large majority being more aware of their needs than heterosexuals.

Whatever it is you believe there it is, I just think everyone has the right to be with who they feel connected to. The universe does not see gender, it sees evolution.

[kiauma]

quote:The universe does not see gender, it sees evolution.

Wow, I feel the love in that one!  I couldn't agree more.

Well said.

[kiauma]

quote:"It's incredible that Lord Tebbit manages to shoehorn his extreme prejudices against gay people into a discussion on child obesity."

Isn't it though.  [V]