Extraterrestrials

[Wi11iam]

For some reason, I can't watch anything from that website. Can you give me a rundown of what he says?

I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Off the top of my head:

He says he was a simple farmer who enlisted and was eventually recruited by CIA, was privy to the blue book project, that it was all way over his head but he was encouraged to persist.

At one point he and his superior visited the President (General Eisenhower) who wanted to know what was going on in area 51 and was told that it was none of his business so the President gave them a message for those controlling area 51 that they had better deliver the goods or he would order an armed invasion of the area 51 and sent them on their way.

He then maintains that when they went to deliver the message to their superiors that he was given access to sighting actual living ETs of the 'Greys' variety and to alien space craft - both wreaked and in good order - as well as secret aircraft being created by American interests for spying.

They returned to see the President (not this time at the White House) and that Hoover and Nixon were both present at that meeting and he and his superior gave them the information he had been allowed to see.

That is off the top of my head - might have some of the details wrong (or not) but dont really want to view the vid again.  Hope it helps.

[Astralzombie]

Wow Will.  What's going on over there in the land down under?

When you say this:

I am not against YOU (or the 'we' you allude to be representing - btw if any of these 'we' are reading this, please step forward and speak for your selves) I am FOR honesty, sincerity, truthfulness and pulling aside the veils of mystical subjectivity for the sake of the collective objectivity.

Are you referring to this from Lionheart:

You even said we should be preserving the future, instead of preserving the past, in another thread made here on Pyramid destruction. We still have no idea what the Pyramids were built for and what their uses could be. We haven't delved deep enough into the mystery yet. There is valuable information to still be found in them. But, in many areas Archeologists are being blocked from digging deeper.

That's the only thing that Lionheart wrote where he mentioned the word "we". That being true, it may seem as if I am just trolling by asking if that is the "we" you are referring to but that's what makes the tangent you went off on so...well, it's a little disturbing. I'm concerned about your well being Will. It is completely obvious to me that the "we" that Lionheart referenced is mankind in general and in total. Yet you took it to mean that Lionheart is speaking for some sort of secret or underground group of members here on the pulse. 

That is a gross misunderstanding. So much so that a court would find you negligent since you just got through making these statements (I feel obligated to put a disclaimer here and say that there is no actual court):

They [Lionheart's accusations against you] show a distinct inability to comprehend collective consciousness...

as well as

we can barely communicate honestly and maturely among ourselves!

I know that you can't see it from your position but you are the one that actually lacks the ability to understand or relate to people. I'm not saying this to be rude.

I like to reply to your comments William, but you make it hard to sometimes. You misconstrue so many statements. Statements that are often times just off the cusp or said jokingly but had no real purpose other than attempts of humor. I always feel like I need to triple clarify some of my replies just to make sure that there is no possible way you can misunderstand my meaning and/or intent.

The radical conclusions that you often arrive to make me think that you are slight paranoid, grew up in extreme isolation from peers, or that you may have a mild form of autism. I am not saying that to be funny or to imply that there is anything wrong with that but it would help me to understand you a little more.

I feel as if I need to say that I am not speaking for Lionheart. I say this because he is most likely not gonna respond and I don't want you to say that I am. It almost feels like junior high all over again but without all the fun.

BTW. Thanks for the synopsis on the video. That was very helpful.

Your friend,

Simon.

[Bedeekin]

It would be so much easier to speak to you William through your Ouija board communication device. 

I find it amusing that we anthropomorphise aliens... trying to second guess their agenda based upon our own paranoia... assuming that the government are privy to their knowledge etc.

[Wi11iam]

Simon

There was reference was in that post which you refer to but the post has been modified and the reference is no longer there.  My bad since I should have quoted.

It is far better to speak for yourself than for each other.

I will re-post what I said which is pertinent to communication - on topic and applicable to all of us.



We can as we choose hide behind personas and sound off spiritually (for example) but any hidden content of any communication can still be uncovered logically and rationally and it is easy enough to 'get to the bottom of things' if one is persistent and has the opportunity to do so, and pursues honest and open communication as the preferred (and hopefully mutual) expression.

Often when people complain in the way you have done here, it is because they think they are being exposed rather than that their message is found to have gaping holes in it which need to be honestly questioned and it is this honest questioning that is distasteful to their senses.  This is because they believe in what they are expressing so that the message IS them, which it is not really, not in reality - but because of this perception and misconception they think they are being questioned when it is the message which is being questioned, because they cannot separate themselves from the message and so respond by ignoring the message which exposes the holes in their own message and making personal comments about the messenger, which either shuts the messenger up or, in my case, gives me an opportunity to clarify - I am not against YOU (or the 'we' you allude to be representing - btw if any of these 'we' are reading this, please step forward and speak for your selves) I am FOR honesty, sincerity, truthfulness and pulling aside the veils of mystical subjectivity for the sake of the collective objectivity.

[note:  Personal comments such as referring to the nature of someones state of mental health, and alluding to possible reasons for their perceived mannerism which ignores what they are clearly saying in preference to some made up theory which suits the agenda of the 'court jury' - not honest, sincere, truthful or particularly useful other than to steer the focus of the thread away from having to adress the hard questions.]

In my communications with ET, this was one of the fundamental things they worked with me on - pulling away my own belief systems by questioning them through showing me the holes/inconsistencies in them.  I know it is hard at first but it is well worth it.  Many times in the early days I got snotty with them, much as you are doing with me.  I even pronounced them 'bad' and refused at times to speak with them, but they knew me well enough that I would come around as I just needed the time to absorb the data and was just reacting knee jerk and immaturely but in my heart I wanted to be truthful to myself and those whose paths cross with mine, and once I fully accepted the truth of their observations and realized the uncomfortable feelings being brought to the surface had to do with my own belief systems being shown to be faulty and that those feelings belonged to me and could be sourced within my own psyche - buttons being pushed meant that I had things to deal with and those helping to show me this were not my enemy - they were just not interested in molly coddling me or reinforcing said beliefs by playing along with them - of necessity they tolerated these beliefs through understanding, but they are not interested in pursuing communication forever on those terms because it is of no value in the long term to anyone.

You see - there is no 'Prime Directive' which prevents ET from communicating with anyone as if to do so is to interfere with the individual creating some unperceived and irrevocable damage.  All that is required is an honest and humble intent and an openness to learn and willingness to discard belief systems which do not promote unification and truthful communication.  It is really that simple.

All I ask is that in your time of 'muteness' where I am concerned you consider my words here and keep an open mind and see that I am not an enemy....but rather a potential friend.  

Thank You!

[and you and you...]

In regard to 'new information' that General Eisenhower threatened to invade area 51 - while it might be a first, it is not world shaking and does not really address or add to the topic of why ET chooses/or is forced to remain undisclosed, apart from adding weight to the argument that human beings are not communicating and thus working together effectively and honestly and this is possibly a major contributing factor to why ET remains undisclosed.

Who was it that posted in this thread 'WE ARE NOT READY'?

[Wi11iam]

It would be so much easier to speak to you William through your Ouija board communication device. 

I find it amusing that we anthropomorphise aliens... trying to second guess their agenda based upon our own paranoia... assuming that the government are privy to their knowledge etc.

It would be interesting if you could elaborate on your anthropomorphic comment and why this amuses you Ben.

[Stillwater]

I find it amusing that we anthropomorphise aliens... trying to second guess their agenda based upon our own paranoia... assuming that the government are privy to their knowledge etc.

We could only be second guessing their agenda if they had for instance told it to us themselves... at best be are making a long series of first guesses, lol.

I think to assume governments are in on this is only natural, because it is the only narritive that has been given to us that includes extraterrestrials. I mean yes you also have the touchy-feely channeled stuff, but with that stuff you need to take it on faith that you are being dictated to by aliens. The direct testimony of people who claim to have had experiences with them on earth are the only ones subject to possible future corroberation in the short term.

Now either we have visitors coming, or we don't. If we don't, everyone who has spoken up is a liar (which may be true, but makes alot of liars); if we do have visitors, then everything we have heard about them comes from witnesses such as discussed in this thread, and literally every one of them bar a small few mentions governments in connection to them, so it is sort of a starting point; if you believe any of the witnesses may not be liars, then governments are almost without fail involved somewhere.

To me paranoia would be taking neutral information and extracting a negative or dangerous connotation to it; but in the case of these testimonies, it isn't the viewer that is suggesting the government is hiding something, they are being told that by every speaker, so the information is not neutral to start with on that issue. So that must mean the whole disclosure and testimony movement itself is a movement of paranoia if anything about it is. But then if every source is discredited as a paranoid one, then how does a person figure out what is going on at all? If you want any data to evaluate at all, it is really your only option.

[Wi11iam]

We could only be second guessing their agenda if they had for instance told it to us themselves... at best be are making a long series of first guesses, lol.

I think to assume governments are in on this is only natural, because it is the only narritive that has been given to us that includes extraterrestrials. I mean yes you also have the touchy-feely channeled stuff, but with that stuff you need to take it on faith that you are being dictated to by aliens. The direct testimony of people who claim to have had experiences with them on earth are the only ones subject to possible future corroberation in the short term.

Now either we have visitors coming, or we don't. If we don't, everyone who has spoken up is a liar (which may be true, but makes alot of liars); if we do have visitors, then everything we have heard about them comes from witnesses such as discussed in this thread, and literally every one of them bar a small few mentions governments in connection to them, so it is sort of a starting point; if you believe any of the witnesses may not be liars, then governments are almost without fail involved somewhere.

To me paranoia would be taking neutral information and extracting a negative or dangerous connotation to it; but in the case of these testimonies, it isn't the viewer that is suggesting the government is hiding something, they are being told that by every speaker, so the information is not neutral to start with on that issue. So that must mean the whole disclosure and testimony movement itself is a movement of paranoia if anything about it is. But then if every source is discredited as a paranoid one, then how does a person figure out what is going on at all? If you want any data to evaluate at all, it is really your only option.

You are correct I agree.

Where did the thought about ETs originate?  Where did the imagery come from which give us examples which distinguish the three main ET types which Paul Hellyer speaks about in the video posted at the start this topic?

We cannot automatically assume that the secretive nature of Governments are the result of sinister agenda. 
We cannot seriously take any-ones testimony (including channeling) to be representative of truthfulness and as such ETs are more in the realm of the fringe subjects, such as AP, Occult, Religion, Spirituality, Alternate universe etc... science fiction.

They are not speaking for themselves and even governments are not speaking for them.  There is also the aspect of being motivated to believe based on assumption that a higher advanced space faring civilization would be in a position to 'save us from ourselves', or from our governing oppressors.

Even taking what information is available, the picture seems to be that the differing types of ET are not all working together and follow their own cosmological philosophies which clash with the others, and it is possible that information on one type is misinformation from another type.

There is some evidence that the Zeta Reticuli (greys) have had interaction with some cultures - I am thinking specifically the Maoris  - and such interaction can be seen in the stories and artwork of many cultures but ... I am reminded of Whitley Strieber...what might appear to the one experiencing 'abduction' is reminiscent of AP stories and is the most likely source where the concept of ET originates.

[Wi11iam]

We could only be second guessing their agenda if they had for instance told it to us themselves...

If I am told anything about someone BY that someone I would take them at their word until such a time as it became necessary not to. 

I have communed with individuals through Ouija who said they are ET and even identified which particular specie they were (Zeta Reticuli).  What information I got from this type of communication was revealing, helpful and worth the effort.

From the information communicated, they are and have been involved quite intimately with us as a specie for a long time on both the collective consciousness level and at individual level and that while they are extremely more advanced they are still themselves learning and this is part of the reason why they persist.

They also have a sense of humor. 

I have only seen one type of Zeta Reticuli and that was a good 25 or so years ago.  It is my assumption that this being was Zeta due to its large dark eyes and grey hued skin, but it definitely was not the popular stereotype which media often portrays... you know, this one...



Due to this encounter (which happened while in hypnagogic state) when developing the communication techniques of Ouija many years later I eventually asked about the experience I had had, and also if it were possible to commune with the Zeta over the Ouija - and the affirmation was that I certainly could, so I did.

I have never seen a flying craft of unknown origin, but have seen unexplainable lights in the sky at night - I cannot immediately assume that these lights are from flying craft of any sort although the circumstances surrounding this particular event allow me to see something of a message being communicated, and a kind of shared humor.

[Volgerle]

You see - there is no 'Prime Directive' which prevents ET from communicating with anyone as if to do so is to interfere with the individual creating some unperceived and irrevocable damage.

Yes and no. If they have a prime directive like in Star Trek it would be more about the "ban" on contacting the collective (mankind) officially, e.g. the sterotypical scenario of a landing on the White House lawn and saying hello to the President.

Of course the prohibition does not involve personal contacts (or groups who are open enough) also to start a slow process to help evolve the species (up to now done for millenia already I suppose) or help establish contact gradually in order to prevent a shock caused by the societal paradigm shift in case they did the 'mass contact / landing' thing.

[Wi11iam]

Yes and no. If they have a prime directive like in Star Trek it would be more about the "ban" on contacting the collective (mankind) officially, e.g. the sterotypical scenario of a landing on the White House lawn and saying hello to the President.

Of course the prohibition does not involve personal contacts (or groups who are open enough) also to start a slow process to help evolve the species (up to now done for millenia already I suppose) or help establish contact gradually in order to prevent a shock caused by the societal paradigm shift in case they did the 'mass contact / landing' thing.

Yes - essentially that was what I was aiming at in regard to why ET remains undisclosed in the manner that many would like them to be - the subject of 'prime directive' was offered as a possible reason why.

In general it could be argued that we as a species are ready for 'landings and mass contact' due to our far better understanding of science and the universe.

Perhaps too there would be resentment if such a thing was done without any invitation?

Anyway, it appears there are more reasons why ET should remain hidden, than for them to be revealed.  Perhaps it is 'the mark of a species' if it actually gets its act together with minimal outside interference...or maybe the focus is on the individual to make the connections.

[Astralzombie]

Who exactly isn't ready to know? Is it mankind in general, organized religions and their followers, the boy scouts.

It seems to me that the people of the world are foaming at their mouths to get their governments to 'fess up or show some actual proof that they too are in the dark, though I do wonder how the govs can prove that they don't know something.

In regards to Christianity, it's starting to appear as if the Catholic Church is priming it's flock for disclosure.

Here's a quote from Catholic.net:
Father Funes, who took over as head of the observatory in 2006, denied that the existence of other intelligent life-forms would contradict Christian belief.

"As there exist many creatures on earth, so there could be other beings, also intelligent, created by God," he said. "This doesn't contradict our faith because we cannot put limits on the creative freedom of God. To say it as St. Francis [of Assisi], if we consider some earthly creatures as 'brother' and 'sister,' why couldn't we also talk of an 'extraterrestrial brother'? He would also belong to creation."

It should be mentioned that Father Funes is a Jesuit. Jesuits are a secret society of males within the Catholic Church. Through out the church's history, Jesuits have held positions that are usually deemed to not be in line with official policy. This gives them their aura of mystique which the church uses to their advantage. This allows the church some wiggle room to be involved in controversial matters. It's note worthy because they now have their first ever Jesuit Pope. I guess that means Jesuits now speak officially on behalf of the church. This could get very interesting.

Considering they forced Galileo to recant the truth about the planets revolving around the sun under threat of death, it's a little odd to some people that they have one of the largest and most sophisticated observatory in the world. Yeah, they might just be looking for Wormwood but every other observatory in the world is on the lookout for doomsday threats as well so that doesn't sound too plausible.

Since the Catholic Church seems to be embracing the idea of alien life, you can bet that this will have a huge impact on the Protestants as well. In Christianity, there is the Catholic Church and the other denominations fall under Protestant and breakdown from there.

The only other major religions that have not yet made any kind of "welcoming" statement are the Muslims and the Jews. I expect that will change soon as well.

I'm not sure what the Boy Scouts think about alien life but if it's anything like their policy towards homosexuals, I'm sure it's pretty archaic.

[Wi11iam]

Who exactly isn't ready to know? Is it mankind in general, organized religions and their followers, the boy scouts.

It depends upon exactly what there is to full disclosure.

What questions would arise in regard to what is revealed?

How will that affect the desired outcome?

What would be the desired outcome?

Will the ETs involved support full disclosure and are they even united?  For example, I have read channeled info that says the Zeta are not part of the Galactic Federation, because they are non supportive of major directives which others have agreed to.

Will full disclosure reveal that a lot of channeled information is human fabrication?

According to Jewish tradition, ETs are featured in their holy book as 'the gods' and thus so too is this a recognizable feature in Christian doctrine - even in Revelations there is reference to Jesus returning with a host of heavenly angels to land on the Planet and take control of the situation - that would be a mighty big disclosure but not necessarily full disclosure.

How would it be if an ET species would land on the planet and play the role of God over human beings and how much of this information has been distorted to suit human agenda?  How do we know that in ancient day the gods disclosed their intentions to the tribal leadership only to have that information twisted to effectively make those intentions next to impossible to carry out?

How would people react to being informed about the interactions of the past and the cover-ups and lies and distortions?

Would our specie be mature enough to accept the mistakes of the past for the sake of the future?

There is a certain role that an aspect of Zeta Reticuli species have had in relation to human beings, which is zoological and veterinarian, as well as other scientific roles, and also 'God'...how would such information be reconciled?

[Volgerle]

There is a certain role that an aspect of Zeta Reticuli species have had in relation to human beings, which is zoological and veterinarian, as well as other scientific roles, and also 'God'...how would such information be reconciled?

The expression 'zoological and veterinarian' implies that we regard us and consider us to be regarded by the ETs (greys and/or others) as sth inferior, even animal. However, this is open to debate, many channelled messages and information retrieved under hypnotic regression bears other messages from ETs, they talk about admiration and appreciation, since they see the soul essence in us which is not different from them. But of course this might be misinformation again ... who knows, and maybe there are different fractions and parties of ETs with different agendas and views of humans indeed ...

I'm asking myself, however, if there are so many species out there, they must still somehow coordinate and work together or at least do some counselling amongst each other. E.g. who prevents any of the races to go it alone and make "official" contact by mass landing. It did and does not happen. So who or what (authority?) would be keeping them from it? I think this is a good argument to suppose a kind of policy (or 'prime directive').

[ForrestDean]

Well, I feel that all things occur exactly as they are intended, and that there are reasons for all that happens, so whether there is a massive global visitation or full disclosure or not would of course be for some purpose, be it a learning opportunity or whatever.

However, I personally feel that any mass visitation on a global scale in our current state would be highly inappropriate at this time.  The entire global society is currently going through a massive transitional phase, both on a personal level as well as collectively, and is a transition that we must work through completely on our own.  This is a period in human history that should not nor must not be interfered with by any perceived outside influences.  I strongly feel that the next few decades, and maybe even the next 100 years will be a very defining moment in our history.  How we make it through this transition will be and must be completely determined by the collective consciousess of Earth's global population, whether we "succeed" or "fail".  But in all actuality there is no success or failure, there is only experience.

If we not only survive but successfully thrive at the completion of this transitional period, we could potentially have a new global society never before experienced in Earth's history, and it could be us visiting them instead of the other way around.

However, if we fail miserably to the point of near extinction, if not total extinction, then I guess whatever aliens that may or may not be observing us can just move on with nothing else to witness here, and we humans who had our chance on this planet can just continue experiencing life elsewhere.

It just depends on what we choose to experience.

Again, if there was a massive visitation, or even an invasion, this could majorly disrupt our path to enlightenment, and distract us from our Self.  Even if it resulted in transforming society into a more positive one, we would have learned little, if anything at all, because the learning opportunities that we have created for ourself would have been taken away in the process.  An event like this would deny us the choices we should have made on our own.  If we don't learn from those opportunities then we could very likely make the same mistakes down the road, and this perceived alien rescue would have been for nothing.

As it is today, the majority of society continues to look outside of themselves for a savior.  Due in no small part to many of the religions and other belief systems, we continually look for some thing or event to rescue us from our perceived problems instead of looking within ourself for the solutions.  A perceived rescue from a massive alien visitation would turn our attention onto them and away from ourself and only reinforce our belief that we can only be saved from someone other than ourself.

[Wi11iam]

[1:] The expression 'zoological and veterinarian' implies that we regard us and consider us to be regarded by the ETs (greys and/or others) as sth inferior, even animal. However, this is open to debate, many channelled messages and information retrieved under hypnotic regression bears other messages from ETs, they talk about admiration and appreciation, since they see the soul essence in us which is not different from them. But of course this might be misinformation again ... who knows, and maybe there are different fractions and parties of ETs with different agendas and views of humans indeed ...

[2:] I'm asking myself, however, if there are so many species out there, they must still somehow coordinate and work together or at least do some counselling amongst each other. E.g. who prevents any of the races to go it alone and make "official" contact by mass landing. It did and does not happen. So who or what (authority?) would be keeping them from it? I think this is a good argument to suppose a kind of policy (or 'prime directive').

On point 1 - there is enough info re Zeta Reticuli to know that they are scientists and experiment, recreate, develop and explore pushing the limits of knowledge. Also from data recalled by those who have had the experience of being 'abducted' there is a lot of feedback on being examined and tested physically.
In watching human zoological and veterinarian at work I don;t get the impression that they think of animals as inferior although in general it seems that human beings do think of animals as being inferior, soulless, but from my own communications as well as other sources we are not considered anything less than they (the greys) but more 'of them' because of the thread of life recognized as consciousness through which we are all connected - the forms we are in may be superior to other earthly creatures because we can do so much more with what we have and we can use our bodies to operate on critters and help them to get well.  In that sense, our bodies being 'superior' ET forms might be superior from our own forms.

We can admire any critter for their particular talent - something we greatly appreciate or can't do ourselves (like swim like a dolphin, or run like a cat etc...) 

On point 2 - there are great distances involved in travelling the galaxy and one of the disadvantages for biological lifeforms is that space travel is murder on the body.
Arguments that ET can get around this problem by jumping through dimensions might be relevant but we don't know if this is real or fictional since our own science is so limited in this area.
If there is a galactic federation this implies that they communicate somehow over great distance or that they are all in one place or that they convene in some other dimension and discuss, argue, agree etc but even if 99% of the different species for example all agreed that Humans should be left alone to develop naturally, any species which is able to ignore any agreement can do so and may not even be able to be prevented from doing so.   

Anyway there is a lot of data to show that ET has indeed had a lot to do with our development.

[Wi11iam]

Well, I feel that all things occur exactly as they are intended, and that there are reasons for all that happens, so whether there is a massive global visitation or full disclosure or not would of course be for some purpose, be it a learning opportunity or whatever.

However, I personally feel that any mass visitation on a global scale in our current state would be highly inappropriate at this time.  The entire global society is currently going through a massive transitional phase, both on a personal level as well as collectively, and is a transition that we must work through completely on our own.  This is a period in human history that should not nor must not be interfered with by any perceived outside influences.  I strongly feel that the next few decades, and maybe even the next 100 years will be a very defining moment in our history.  How we make it through this transition will be and must be completely determined by the collective consciousess of Earth's global population, whether we "succeed" or "fail".  But in all actuality there is no success or failure, there is only experience.

If we not only survive but successfully thrive at the completion of this transitional period, we could potentially have a new global society never before experienced in Earth's history, and it could be us visiting them instead of the other way around.

However, if we fail miserably to the point of near extinction, if not total extinction, then I guess whatever aliens that may or may not be observing us can just move on with nothing else to witness here, and we humans who had our chance on this planet can just continue experiencing life elsewhere.

It just depends on what we choose to experience.

Again, if there was a massive visitation, or even an invasion, this could majorly disrupt our path to enlightenment, and distract us from our Self.  Even if it resulted in transforming society into a more positive one, we would have learned little, if anything at all, because the learning opportunities that we have created for ourself would have been taken away in the process.  An event like this would deny us the choices we should have made on our own.  If we don't learn from those opportunities then we could very likely make the same mistakes down the road, and this perceived alien rescue would have been for nothing.

As it is today, the majority of society continues to look outside of themselves for a savior.  Due in no small part to many of the religions and other belief systems, we continually look for some thing or event to rescue us from our perceived problems instead of looking within ourself for the solutions.  A perceived rescue from a massive alien visitation would turn our attention onto them and away from ourself and only reinforce our belief that we can only be saved from someone other than ourself.

Failure or success in terms of survival or extinction on a mass scale is not the most likely criteria.  If we are talking in terms of 'spirit in a material world' then data of experience amounts to spirit utilizing the material universe in various forms, some of which are more apt - the human form seems able enough to be useful for gathering the data but not so apt at feeding back the data but it is likely not the form so much as distortion of data - for example, an individual who has experience to which he or she is unable to understand and they share the information with someone who they believe is more able to decipher that data and produce an understandable answer as to "why" - a role which tribal seers  took on and cultures and religions evolved from.  It is easy enough to see how this happens and for the more physical side of everyday life on earth it is education, science, finance and politics which have evolved to become that which will 'save'.

In terms of 'only the physical' mass extinction might well be an answer to a problem perceived, even as 'spirit' finds that data of experience being gathered is of no particular value to its own evolution - I use the word 'spirit' but am suggesting rather 'collective consciousness of our species' and that extinction might well play a very important role - it has already been experienced at least once and other types of form to experience through developed as the dust settled.

It is interesting to consider options - do we stand and watch as less fortunate countries suffer under harsh political laws and terrifying constraints or do we interfere?  The decisions made are always political/business motivated and cost of interference must be weighed alongside possible return of investment and if there are to be no likely profits which offset the investment, then there will be no interference.

We cannot easily know what motivates ET to become involved or remain at arms length or what opportunities it affords their own 'species spirit' to learn by observing any others or indeed to what extent these species-spirits are entwined - what the relationship is at those levels of collective consciousness...how intimate they might be...for mostly, whether we are focused upon only the physical or consider also the 'spiritual' most of us as individual do not pay particular mind to such, content to play in our own subjective fields of experience and indifferent or simply unaware of the 'bigger' things occurring, and how those things might be viewing the reality unfolding and interpreting that unfolding in a co-creative mutually agreeable way - for reasons beyond the perceptions of individual human wants, desires, etc...

[ForrestDean]

Failure or success in terms of survival or extinction on a mass scale is not the most likely criteria.  If we are talking in terms of 'spirit in a material world' then data of experience amounts to spirit utilizing the material universe in various forms, some of which are more apt - the human form seems able enough to be useful for gathering the data but not so apt at feeding back the data but it is likely not the form so much as distortion of data - for example, an individual who has experience to which he or she is unable to understand and they share the information with someone who they believe is more able to decipher that data and produce an understandable answer as to "why" - a role which tribal seers  took on and cultures and religions evolved from.  It is easy enough to see how this happens and for the more physical side of everyday life on earth it is education, science, finance and politics which have evolved to become that which will 'save'.

Yep.  Again, all things serves it's purpose for very appropriate reasons.

In terms of 'only the physical' mass extinction might well be an answer to a problem perceived, even as 'spirit' finds that data of experience being gathered is of no particular value to its own evolution - I use the word 'spirit' but am suggesting rather 'collective consciousness of our species' and that extinction might well play a very important role - it has already been experienced at least once and other types of form to experience through developed as the dust settled.

I agree.

It is interesting to consider options - do we stand and watch as less fortunate countries suffer under harsh political laws and terrifying constraints or do we interfere?  The decisions made are always political/business motivated and cost of interference must be weighed alongside possible return of investment and if there are to be no likely profits which offset the investment, then there will be no interference.

We learn from the conditions that are presented to us.  It's important to understand why our political institutions, who pass these laws, exist to begin with.  If we perceive there to be problems or unpleasant situations in society then there is only one way to change it.

We cannot easily know what motivates ET to become involved or remain at arms length or what opportunities it affords their own 'species spirit' to learn by observing any others or indeed to what extent these species-spirits are entwined - what the relationship is at those levels of collective consciousness...how intimate they might be...for mostly, whether we are focused upon only the physical or consider also the 'spiritual' most of us as individual do not pay particular mind to such, content to play in our own subjective fields of experience and indifferent or simply unaware of the 'bigger' things occurring, and how those things might be viewing the reality unfolding and interpreting that unfolding in a co-creative mutually agreeable way - for reasons beyond the perceptions of individual human wants, desires, etc...

That much is for certain.  But in any case, I'm just here for the ride.    I can realize all this deeper meaning stuff whenever that moment presents itself.  I'm certainly in no hurry.  

[Wi11iam]

I'm just here for the ride. 

Interesting expression.  While we all are, our 'rides' can be whatever meaningful thing we choose, or have no meaning at all.  I want my particular 'ride' to find data of experience which might assist the 'spirit' of our species - for example, if I were addicted to porn, heavey drugs and violence as my preferred 'ride' the data of experience might be of minimal use - again - if I am ticking along in a worker role raising a family, paying a mortgage, that particular data may be as useful as the first example.

Again, if I use an ability to traverse the integrate realities (AP) and fight dragons or play war-games, or hang out in malls or have sex etc...the data of experience may still be of little to no value.

Therefore a particular type of data is of value - one which allows us as individuals to explore the 'deeper meaning stuff' associated with their ride, in relationship to the collective 'ride'.



This attitude derives from ego-personalities understanding the importance of 'who they are' in relation to their shared reality with others in whatever existence of experience they are involved, rather than focus on the importance of their solitary life or the particular group (family, friends, like-minded etc) to which their 'ride' consists of.

One thing for sure, one can't easily get to the realization that ego-personality is not the center of the universe of its experience (ride) without going through that phase...riding through it joyously rather than getting stuck in the role of... 

[Bedeekin]

It would be interesting if you could elaborate on your anthropomorphic comment and why this amuses you Ben.

I would think it's fairly obvious.

[ForrestDean]

Interesting expression.  While we all are, our 'rides' can be whatever meaningful thing we choose, or have no meaning at all.  I want my particular 'ride' to find data of experience which might assist the 'spirit' of our species - for example, if I were addicted to porn, heavey drugs and violence as my preferred 'ride' the data of experience might be of minimal use - again - if I am ticking along in a worker role raising a family, paying a mortgage, that particular data may be as useful as the first example.

Again, if I use an ability to traverse the integrate realities (AP) and fight dragons or play war-games, or hang out in malls or have sex etc...the data of experience may still be of little to no value.

Therefore a particular type of data is of value - one which allows us as individuals to explore the 'deeper meaning stuff' associated with their ride, in relationship to the collective 'ride'.



This attitude derives from ego-personalities understanding the importance of 'who they are' in relation to their shared reality with others in whatever existence of experience they are involved, rather than focus on the importance of their solitary life or the particular group (family, friends, like-minded etc) to which their 'ride' consists of.

One thing for sure, one can't easily get to the realization that ego-personality is not the center of the universe of its experience (ride) without going through that phase...riding through it joyously rather than getting stuck in the role of... 

Exactly!

Which is why the practice of letting go is one of the most liberating things one can do.

Be free.  Enjoy the ride.  Journey well. 

[Wi11iam]

Exactly!

Which is why the practice of letting go is one of the most liberating things one can do.

Be free.  Enjoy the ride.  Journey well. 

[Lionheart]

Communication with who?

Wi11iam, I respect your honesty.

I just returned from a show traveling on the road, so I didn't get a chance to read all of these replies when they first came in, until just now.

But we could have done without all the problems and hardships that this caused both of us, if you just would have answered the question with a simple "ET's".

No elaborate justification or explanation of any kind would have been needed.

That's all I wanted to hear. 

[Wi11iam]

Wi11iam, I respect your honesty.

I just returned from a show traveling on the road, so I didn't get a chance to read all of these replies when they first came in, until just now.

But we could have done without all the problems and hardships that this caused both of us, if you just would have answered the question with a simple "ET's".

No elaborate justification or explanation of any kind would have been needed.

That's all I wanted to hear. 

Not sure what you are referring to guy...justification?  Hardship and problems?  There are a few pages of this thread...perhaps you can just point me to what it is you are referring to here...??

(you know I don't go around making problems and hardships for anyone, at least not purposefully, don't you?)

What is your name btw?

[Wi11iam]

An interesting piece of data re shifts in reality and ET contact on a world wide scale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VvTPwLQq6XI

Subject matter:

Change...= shifting to the preferred vibration.
Start to see through the eyes of that which you will become (are becoming)
'New Earth' reality reflecting your own vibration.
What is the world that you prefer and are you aligned with its vibration.
Often we understand 'what we are' by reflecting off that which we are not.
The more an individual understands who they are for its OWN SAKE - without needing to see a 'counter offer of what you are not, the more those things will be no more...
What is the world we each look through...
Shifting = changing the world we look through...
Infinant choices within All That Is
Allowing makes it easier for the self to experience the reality that you prefer...

The energy now - many things are shifting.
Economic and political systems
Have new systems in place ready to go when the old ones no longer work.

Old ideas fall away as the shift happens - new ideas attract to yourself invented by you and others
which can be implemented rapidly.

Economic collapse is coming but there will be things which can replace what is washed away

Never approach things (change)  with fear and event is not an event until YOU have responded to it.

Not what happens but how you respond which makes the event whatever it is you experience it to be.
Respond well to all these things and they will serve you well in you shift.

Understand the true worth/value talents and skills in a way that is not recognized by artificial symbols to represent the idea of value and exchange - the exchange between people will be sufficient.

Free Energy...will assist unifying society.

There will be an increase in the awareness and existence of ET.

Eventually open contact will occur in this shifted reality.

Open communion and contact will occur in relation to open and willing contact within your own society.

[Stillwater]

I almost forgot about the vedic accounts of "Vimana's"- the divine sky chariots that sound eerily like spacecraft in the vedas.

The most famous account is from the Mahabharata, which is the story of the great Kurukshetra war between the Pandavas and Kauravas; in the climactic battle, a sky chariot (vimana) was said to have hurled a terrible weapon which decimated both sides, but the Kauravas most so, and that resembles a nuclear device in pretty much every respect of its effects and consequences- there is description of a "parisol-like cloud", a sickness which causes the hair to fall out... blinding flash... the fact that water temporarily relieves the sickness associated with it, as it does in irradiated areas; literally 8 or 9 pieces of information like that describe an atomic weapon perfectly.

It sounds very much like there has been a race of humans with technology far beyond what history would allow, or else that extraterrestrial visitors have been playing their hand at times. I suppose it could also be a coincidence, but the connection in these verses has always been uncanny to me.
-----------

"Gurkha, flying a swift and powerful vimana ,
hurled a single projectile
charged with the power of the Universe

An incandescent column of smoke and flame,
as bright as ten thousand suns,
rose with all its splendour.
A perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...

It was an unknown weapon,
an iron thunderbolt,
a gigantic messenger of death,
which reduced to ashes
the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

The corpses were so burned
as to be unrecognizable.

Hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
and the birds turned white.

...After a few hours
all foodstuffs were infected...
...to escape from this fire
the soldiers threw themselves in streams
to wash themselves and their equipment."
"Dense arrows of flame,
like a great shower,
issued forth upon creation,
encompassing the enemy.
A thick gloom swiftly settled upon the Pandava hosts.
All points of the compass were lost in darkness.
Fierce wind began to blow
Clouds roared upward,
showering dust and gravel.

Birds croaked madly...
the very elements seemed disturbed.
The sun seemed to waver in the heavens
The earth shook,
scorched by the terrible violent heat of this weapon.

Elephants burst into flame
and ran to and fro in a frenzy...
over a vast area,
other animals crumpled to the ground and died.
From all points of the compass
the arrows of flame rained continuously and fiercely."

— The Mahabharata