Kerry and Bush Debate on Thursday

[no_leaf_clover]

I'll probably just watch the Daily Show's review on Comedy Central. That show has about the most honest news on cable, just presented in a creative way.

The rules are pretty bad... I heard Nader talking about it on Coast to Coast. He said that back in the 1980's, debates switched over to a more privately organized event agreed upon by the republicans and democrats. This way, other parties can't really get onto the debates, nor do anything about it. Even though they aren't official debates, the media still covers them obviously, and they still get cost breaks from the government as if it were an official event, so really the only difference is that 3rd party candidates aren't given a chance to speak.

Along that same note, Jon Stewart noted on the Daily Show that though people will be allowed to ask the candidates questions, they questions had to be submitted before the debate, and, when read, if the question is deviated from the written version in the slightest, the citizen's mic is immediately muted and the debate moves along. They're really going out of their way to make sure no one hears anything they shouldn't.

[TheDarkApprentice]

quote:Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

I'll probably just watch the Daily Show's review on Comedy Central. That show has about the most honest news on cable, just presented in a creative way.

The rules are pretty bad... I heard Nader talking about it on Coast to Coast. He said that back in the 1980's, debates switched over to a more privately organized event agreed upon by the republicans and democrats. This way, other parties can't really get onto the debates, nor do anything about it. Even though they aren't official debates, the media still covers them obviously, and they still get cost breaks from the government as if it were an official event, so really the only difference is that 3rd party candidates aren't given a chance to speak.

Along that same note, Jon Stewart noted on the Daily Show that though people will be allowed to ask the candidates questions, they questions had to be submitted before the debate, and, when read, if the question is deviated from the written version in the slightest, the citizen's mic is immediately muted and the debate moves along. They're really going out of their way to make sure no one hears anything they shouldn't.

Yeah I get most of my news from the Daily Show and plan on watching their conerage tonight as well.

Yeah the rules are horrible. They want people to submit their questions before hand because they don't want the public to hear the real truth about the country. Too bad nadar isn't in the debate. Then it would be somewhat entertaining.

[TheDarkApprentice]

Anyone gonna watch this so called "Debate". With all these rules I dont know if you can really call it that.

[TheDarkApprentice]

Any one see any of the debates? God I hate the two party system. I hate all these people thinking that they only have two choices for their lives. Some one will say "Yeah I disagree with Kerry on most of the issuses but he's better than Bush" Just stuff like that makes me ticked. People have no ideea what their talking about. " President sounds like a nice guy and talks like me so I'll vote for him."

How stupid can people be?? Have you ever seen any of those shows on C-Span or other networks where people call in to voice their opinon. What opinons are these?? I dont care if you dont like poltics and dont know much about our government, but please do some research on a candadite before you vote for him. There are much better options out there. We just live in a two party world and they dont want competion. You would think that Howard Dean sounds more like Ralph Nadar then a John Kerry like figure.

Damn, just mad at the poltical process. It's not a field I'd go into, but I hope some one can change our 2 party spciety

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I watched the first and last debate. I missed the courthouse style second one. I think they were helpful and made me feel better about my choice. I think some people, ok most Americans, do not make an effort to find out about the candidates so this was a chance for them to hear their stands and ideas. This atleast gives the lazy a chance to learn.

I do agree that the two party system limits choices. I think there are more and more people that do not really fit into one or the other party, but would feel more comfortable with one of the other "lesser" parties. But most people do not know much about them and do see them as lesser parties. One potential I see that might change this is within the Republican party. Bush has put a rift in it with his less than conservative actions. If this rift is big enough to actually split the party then I think the two halves would be big enough to make changes happen to make the system more multi-party friendly. I would really like to see parties that are actually different come in to play, because lets face it the Republicans and Democrats are not all that different.

I think one of the big problems with the US political system is the apathy from the citizens. Most people seem to care little about politics, are not very politically aware, and make little effort to actually find out about the politicians. They just take whatever they say in their propaganda speeches as truth, when in fact it can be filled with inaccuracies. But how is anyone suppose to know if they don't look. And when inaccuracies are pointed out, those people are criticized (mostly for making people feel uncomfortable because Americans are lazy and would rather just trust than think that someone would lie).

By the way, PBS is re-airing a show tonight about Kerry and Bush and their lives. It might be interesting if you want to know more about them. I missed it the first time but want to catch it this time.

Exercise your right and go vote!

[Nay]

I only have a couple things to say.   One...I was totally shocked when Kerry used Chaney's lesbian daughter as some dirty political tactic!     How in the world could he use her like that...I was horrified for her.  I suppose that is what she gets for being honest about whom she is, I guess at that point your "open game" as one of Kerry campaign aids said in a interview after the debate.  What does that mean, open game? is this hunting season?

I'm also horrified by a democratic flyer that is being handed out by Kerry's team, is nothing sacred anymore?  Allow me to copy and paste for ya'll.

The ad shows a picture of a Special Olympics participant running a race, with President Bush's head superimposed on top.  The caption reads: "Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You're Still Retarded."  Well isn't that nice.

The flyers have been distributed from Fitzhugh's campaign office for two weeks.  By the way, that office also serves as the Kerry/Edwards campaign headquarters.  So now what is The Poodle's campaign going to say?

Now imagine if you will what would happen if somebody on the Republican side had done this.  It could be somebody running for school board in the middle of Montana.  Immediately the mainstream media would pick it up, and the outrage would snowball.  As it stands now, other than a mention here or there, the Democrats are getting a huge pass.  It would appear they're going to get away with insulting people with disabilities.

Remember...there are two sets of rules.  One for Democrats, who can say anything they want without scrutiny, and one for Republicans who can't.

They should be ashamed of themselves!  

Bush has my vote all the way...

JMHO

Nay

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Remember...there are two sets of rules.  One for Democrats, who can say anything they want without scrutiny, and one for Republicans who can't.

That is actually rather laughable considering that after the US invasion of Iraq anyone criticizing the President or his decisions were heavy ostracized and deemed unAmerican and unpatriotic, merely for having different views in the "land of the free".

Both parties do such things. You merely notice the Kerry side doing so because of where you stand.

And issues like Social Security (the fact that it is unlikely I will get any because someone spent the surplus that was suppose to be for my Social Security), Health Care, Taxes, the Economy, and someone who can actually answer a question that is asked of him are more important to me than whether someone sends out doctored photos, which seems unlikely anyone associated with either candidate would actually do.

[Nay]

I swear that flyer is totally true!!   I just think it shows what kind of people we're dealing with, that's all.  I mean they are making fun of mentally handicapped kids for goodness sakes! just to sway votes.

I didn't even think SS was brought up last night..I was kinda sticking to what I saw last night, so I can't really comment on that without doing some research..  

I did find out I misquoted the "open game" statement and I didn't have the name at the time.  It was Mary Beth Cahill, John Kerry's campaign manager,  she called Mary Cheney's sexuality "fair game" in a post-debate interview with Fox News Wednesday night.  

I really don't understand a comment like that...fair game??   yes, I'm for Bush and blinders might be on, but can someone explain to me, how in the world this makes for fair game?  I'm really open for any shots at that...lol..shots.NO pun intended..  

Take Care,

Nay

[SpectralDragon]

I am going to be honest here, I HATE both of them. Kerry, OMHO, is just as bad as bush. Bush went to war knowing full well there was no reason to go. I would not be surprised if, in the event of his losing the vote, he declares war again to keep his power. (By law if we go to war the change in office doesn't happen.) Kerry, as you have obviously seen in Nay's post, isn't a very honorable man.

I am not sure about the third parties, but I get very bad vibes about both of them running this countries defense. (remember it is congress that makes the political decisions, not the president, he just OK's it or says no. However change in presidency often results in change in the way congress works...)

I have not watched the debate, as I don't like either of them. I hear that both men, though, are arguing like children, throwing insult after insult. That is not a debate in my opinion, that is a childish argument/fight. I don't want individuals who act like children making decisions for the whole country, but seeing as I have little choice in the matter, even though this is supposed to be a democracy, I have to grit my teeth and deal with it as it comes.

I have seen some very funny comics about this debate which, unfortunately, I find to be quite true. One of them was of a regular citizen being placed on a spinwheel, the citezen acting as the needle. The citezen had the obvious look of stupidity, and kerry and bush were behing podiums as if the debate were a game show. I don't remember exactly what the caption read, but it went something to the tune of "let's see what the next topic is." The point I got out of that one is this: to those two this is just a game and us regular citezens are simply the idiot bystanders of it, they don't care at this point that we are the ones who are SUPPOSED to have the final say. But then again, how do you expect to have respect for, quote: "The stupid masses."

I can see this country going into another depression, either way. That isn't a psychic prediction, it's based on simple common logic. We still have troups in iraq, and if bush stays we will continue to war against terrorists. It is my belief that the next target we will hit will soon be the india region and surrounding countries, because of the nuclear threats that pop up every once in a while. Dealing with that is expensive, and we all know what happens during a depression caused by war.

With Kerry, the man obviously has no honor whatsoever. I question whether the man has our best interests at heart. Keep in mind, I am only going by the vibes I get from the man, and I have not looked into the man past this. While I know bush from his past actions, kerry has shown very little and little pops up easily in his history that isn't influinced by the opposite party. It is my belief we might have somewhat of a watergate with kerry, which will cause problems and lead to the eventual depression noted above. Since kerry would likely see himself getting rich, if he isn't rich already, he would likely influince things to make life easier on the rich, that means for us regular folk we will see a lot of things that don't make us happy.

This is just my opinion, but then again since I feel so strongly about it it's more than an opinion at this point, especially concerning bush, since I have his past actions to show what he is likely going to do.

To make this whole post short and sum up: I gotta bad feeling about both of them.

I swear that flyer is totally true!!   I just think it shows what kind of people we're dealing with, that's all.  I mean they are making fun of mentally handicapped kids for goodness sakes! just to sway votes.

I didn't even think SS was brought up last night..I was kinda sticking to what I saw last night, so I can't really comment on that without doing some research..  

I did find out I misquoted the "open game" statement and I didn't have the name at the time.  It was Mary Beth Cahill, John Kerry's campaign manager,  she called Mary Cheney's sexuality "fair game" in a post-debate interview with Fox News Wednesday night.  

I really don't understand a comment like that...fair game??   yes, I'm for Bush and blinders might be on, but can someone explain to me, how in the world this makes for fair game?  I'm really open for any shots at that...lol..shots.NO pun intended..  

Take Care,

Nay

"fair Game:" anything that can be used as a scapegoat/attack point/hook to debunk the oposition in the debate and overall campaign.

-Jason

[Nay]

That is a good point Spectral..but they are the only two we have to choose from..  and may I add, that was alot to say for someone whom hasn't watched the debates.

And yep, Kerry is rich..or should I say his wife.  She is the widow of the Heinz ketchup man..she is worth Billions.

I want to say that I'm not going on psychic vibes or anything, I'm just doing alot of research to find out the truth on both sides, and so far between the two, Bush is a better canidate IMO.  He's not without his faults, but givin the other choice..well..I've already said that.  

I will say, that everytime we have had a Republican in office, our home  had a much better money situation in our lives.  I can't explain why..it just seems to be that way.

Take Care,

Nay

P.S.  copied from boortz.com

OK ... so you've fallen for the Kerry line that George Bush is the first president in 72 years to actually lose jobs during his first four years in office.  Fine ... believe that if you want to.  Please, though, try to come up with a cogent and reasoned answer to this question if you can.  The Bureau of Labor Statistics issues a document entitled the "Employment Situation Summary" every month.  The most recent survey was released at 8:30 a.m. on Friday, October 8, 2004.  This survey indicated that there were 139.5 millions working during September.  That, my friends, is a record.  Never before have 139.5 million Americans had a job during any survey period.

Here's your question:  If a record number of Americans were employed in September of 2004, how can it be said that jobs were lost under President Bush?  Come on, folks!  Tell me!  How do you lose jobs and end up with a record number of Americans working?

By the way ... some more information you can sling around at lunch or dinner today to make yourself seem inestimably wise.  The unemployment rate for September was 5.4%.  That's considered to be low.  Here's a breakdown:

Adult men – 5.0%

Adult women – 4.7%

Teenagers – 16.6%

Now teenagers aren't generally heads of households.  That would mean that the unemployment rate for people who actually have to work for a living and support a family is somewhere between 4.7 and 5.0%.

If you want to base your vote for president on the current jobs situation ... fine.  Do it.  Just get the correct information before you do.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

One thing is sure about the debates, both candidates have trouble with facts. To get the facts straight look here: http://www.factcheck.org/article281.html

I do not know if Kerry would use his Presidential powers to make money but it would seem that Bush has done so. Bush's family is in oil, and oil prices are up. Oil companies were the most profitable business world wide last year. Bush and Cheney have connections to companies that deal with the military and such companies are always profitable during times of war. Bush gave most of this tax cuts to the rich top 10% of Americans, which happen to include both him and Kerry. That top 10% received 53% of the tax cuts. In the debate Bush said that most of his tax cuts went to the middle and lower classes, which is not true. Kerry on the other hand has voted to raise taxes, but that has been for the upper class. Kerry has voted to lower taxes on the middle and lower class many times, but any claims and number on such things are hard to pin down since so many bills can have so many articles attached to them. Hence Kerry's comment about playing with the votes.

Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter is not really appropriate but it was hardly distasteful. I am not saying he should have said it, but it was done respectfully in my opinion.  I also think said statement can cut both ways, displaying that Cheney is not a bigot but at least tolerant when having to deal with homosexuality.  But Kerry should not make assumptions about others and their family.

One thing I would have liked to have heard asked but was never mentioned is about oil prices and alternative energy sources.  I have never heard Kerry's views on this subject and I feel it is an important one with the demand for energy growing world wide. Oil is only in limited supply and some day it will run out. What is one's plan to prepare for this and make America more independent again when it comes to energy?

About the flyer, I have no idea on that but I am not saying it does not exist. It sounds more like poor choices of someone local. If Kerry actually said he endorsed said flyer then that would be cause for concern. Each party has foolish, extremist that would do and have done stupid things.

I do not think that either man is all that honorable.  So I choose, because I think it is important to do so, the one I feel I agree with most on issues.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Oh by the way, Social Security was brought up, briefly. Truthly no one actually has said anything that will fix Social Security. Bush has a plan but I have heard many problems with that. Like the gap it would leave because the current workers are paying the current retirees. Taking money out of it now would hurt the whole system. Then there are many fees to be paid if money is moved out into other accounts. All anyone can really agree on is that it is going to be a big problem. So it would be wise to find other ways to pay for your retirement years if possible.

[TheDarkApprentice]

I only have a couple things to say.   One...I was totally shocked when Kerry used Chaney's lesbian daughter as some dirty political tactic!     How in the world could he use her like that...I was horrified for her.  I suppose that is what she gets for being honest about whom she is, I guess at that point your "open game" as one of Kerry campaign aids said in a interview after the debate.  What does that mean, open game? is this hunting season?

I'm also horrified by a democratic flyer that is being handed out by Kerry's team, is nothing sacred anymore?  Allow me to copy and paste for ya'll.

The ad shows a picture of a Special Olympics participant running a race, with President Bush's head superimposed on top.  The caption reads: "Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You're Still Retarded."  Well isn't that nice.

The flyers have been distributed from Fitzhugh's campaign office for two weeks.  By the way, that office also serves as the Kerry/Edwards campaign headquarters.  So now what is The Poodle's campaign going to say?

Now imagine if you will what would happen if somebody on the Republican side had done this.  It could be somebody running for school board in the middle of Montana.  Immediately the mainstream media would pick it up, and the outrage would snowball.  As it stands now, other than a mention here or there, the Democrats are getting a huge pass.  It would appear they're going to get away with insulting people with disabilities.

Remember...there are two sets of rules.  One for Democrats, who can say anything they want without scrutiny, and one for Republicans who can't.

They should be ashamed of themselves!  

Bush has my vote all the way...

JMHO

Nay

Yeah is was suprised when Kerry brought up Cheny's daughter. Edwards did in the VP debate too. They're just trying to establish a point. Although I don't think they had to bring her into it. Just trying to get votes.

And I highly doubt that those ads would go out. I don't think they would go that far

[TheDarkApprentice]

I am going to be honest here, I HATE both of them. Kerry, OMHO, is just as bad as bush. Bush went to war knowing full well there was no reason to go. I would not be surprised if, in the event of his losing the vote, he declares war again to keep his power. (By law if we go to war the change in office doesn't happen.) Kerry, as you have obviously seen in Nay's post, isn't a very honorable man.

I am not sure about the third parties, but I get very bad vibes about both of them running this countries defense. (remember it is congress that makes the political decisions, not the president, he just OK's it or says no. However change in presidency often results in change in the way congress works...)

I have not watched the debate, as I don't like either of them. I hear that both men, though, are arguing like children, throwing insult after insult. That is not a debate in my opinion, that is a childish argument/fight. I don't want individuals who act like children making decisions for the whole country, but seeing as I have little choice in the matter, even though this is supposed to be a democracy, I have to grit my teeth and deal with it as it comes.

I have seen some very funny comics about this debate which, unfortunately, I find to be quite true. One of them was of a regular citizen being placed on a spinwheel, the citezen acting as the needle. The citezen had the obvious look of stupidity, and kerry and bush were behing podiums as if the debate were a game show. I don't remember exactly what the caption read, but it went something to the tune of "let's see what the next topic is." The point I got out of that one is this: to those two this is just a game and us regular citezens are simply the idiot bystanders of it, they don't care at this point that we are the ones who are SUPPOSED to have the final say. But then again, how do you expect to have respect for, quote: "The stupid masses."

I can see this country going into another depression, either way. That isn't a psychic prediction, it's based on simple common logic. We still have troups in iraq, and if bush stays we will continue to war against terrorists. It is my belief that the next target we will hit will soon be the india region and surrounding countries, because of the nuclear threats that pop up every once in a while. Dealing with that is expensive, and we all know what happens during a depression caused by war.

With Kerry, the man obviously has no honor whatsoever. I question whether the man has our best interests at heart. Keep in mind, I am only going by the vibes I get from the man, and I have not looked into the man past this. While I know bush from his past actions, kerry has shown very little and little pops up easily in his history that isn't influinced by the opposite party. It is my belief we might have somewhat of a watergate with kerry, which will cause problems and lead to the eventual depression noted above. Since kerry would likely see himself getting rich, if he isn't rich already, he would likely influince things to make life easier on the rich, that means for us regular folk we will see a lot of things that don't make us happy.

This is just my opinion, but then again since I feel so strongly about it it's more than an opinion at this point, especially concerning bush, since I have his past actions to show what he is likely going to do.

To make this whole post short and sum up: I gotta bad feeling about both of them.

I swear that flyer is totally true!!   I just think it shows what kind of people we're dealing with, that's all.  I mean they are making fun of mentally handicapped kids for goodness sakes! just to sway votes.

I didn't even think SS was brought up last night..I was kinda sticking to what I saw last night, so I can't really comment on that without doing some research..  

I did find out I misquoted the "open game" statement and I didn't have the name at the time.  It was Mary Beth Cahill, John Kerry's campaign manager,  she called Mary Cheney's sexuality "fair game" in a post-debate interview with Fox News Wednesday night.  

I really don't understand a comment like that...fair game??   yes, I'm for Bush and blinders might be on, but can someone explain to me, how in the world this makes for fair game?  I'm really open for any shots at that...lol..shots.NO pun intended..  

Take Care,

Nay

"fair Game:" anything that can be used as a scapegoat/attack point/hook to debunk the oposition in the debate and overall campaign.

-Jason

You are right about one thing, Kerry is as bad as Bush. He's not sure on the issues, and still is for the war. It's funny how John Kerry won the caucus in Iowa. Oh, maybe because him and John Edwards took Howard Dean's position.

As for third party canadites, most of them don't get a chocie to state their opinon much. Did you know that the Green party canadite and the Libertarian canadite tried to get into the second or first debate but got thrown out and arrested. I hate people who say " A vote for a third party canadite is throwing your vote away". That's not true at all. This is a democracy and everyone has the right to run. You could also argue that George Bush takes away votes in Texas from John Kerry and John Kerry takes vote from Bush in New England. '

There are reasons that thrid party canadites dont have a legitmate shot for the presidency. Publicity is one. The only network I ahve seen the other canadites get air time is C-Span. This is excluding Nadar. People also don't vote with their heart. Someone may disagree with Kerry on most of the issues but still will vote for them because they feel that Bush isn't a good option and vice versa. People don't care. They dont even know what their voting for. Someone will say, "Oh I'm voting for Bush because he did a god job handeling 9/11 and is really strong on the "War" on Terror." That's crazy. Almost any president who would have been in Bush's shoes would have done the same thing handeling 9/11. People may vote for bush because of 9/11 even if they disagree with the Iraq war. Which was totally unnessacry. I guess we have to invade every country with a dictator now. Lets go to Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea and blow the mothers up. Why not? It's ridiculos. You also can't tell other countries to abolish their Nuclear Weapons programs when we ourselves have weapons.

................So frusterating that a majority of our country is blinded by all of this.

[SpectralDragon]

indeed I was actually going to say, Nay, that you could always vote for third party candidate, but I think Dark Apprentice above said what I was going to say better than I could