I've been following the path of psi based consciousness research recently concerning mainstream science. It seems to be coming to the forefront as the Religion vs Atheism argument has simmered away and evolved.
Recently two TED talks were removed from their website because of the mainstream materialist views at TED being challenged on an intellectual level. One by Graham Hancock and another by Rupert Sheldrake.
I think everyone here will find both talks pretty cool and the following article.
Here are the two videos that were removed from the site... I suggest you watch them... they are both astounding.
Graham Hancock: The War on Consciousness - (Removed TED Talk)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw
Rupert Shelldrake: Rupert Sheldrake - The Science Delusion BANNED TED TALK... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg
Here's an article about the TED banning.
http://weilerpsiblog.wordpress.com/2013 ... ntroversy/
Thank You for sharing this Bedeekin! :-)
I wish he would have said more about the Dogmas of the mind and Consciousness.
His speech peaked my curiosity and I found this video, where he has more time to speak on the other Dogmas that are plaguing Scientists today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waMBY3qEA4
I liked Craig's analogy in the comments where he said:
"My sense of this struggle is that it will be like a river quickly building up behind a shaky dam. Downstream you will see almost no evidence of the building pressure until finally, one day, the dam breaks. Suddenly it's everywhere."
This type of crap is really starting to tick me off. This makes mainstream science look pathetic. This is becoming much more important to me than before. I am starting to get a few personal experiences and would love to see all this taken more serious.
What is the real harm in admitting that something is really going on?
The fact is, we cannot allow children to be taught materialistic science. It will wreck their ability to deal with the rapid changes that are coming and put them behind their properly educated peers. Consciousness science is best learned from early on, where children can accept the new ideas without having to push out the old ones.--from the article Beedeekin linked.
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 25, 2013, 03:52:17
What is the real harm in admitting that something is really going on?
Because it would show people that they are "free" no matter where they are or what their circumstances are.
It couldn't be governed! :wink:
Quote from: Lionheart on March 25, 2013, 03:56:53
Because it would show people that they are "free" no matter where they are or what their circumstances are.
It couldn't be governed! :wink:
Yeah, you're right.
Soon.. there will be a consciousness revolution... within the next 10 years I propose.
The thing is mainstream materialist science is becoming fundamentalist and as preachy as the religions it abhors. This screams as the last flailing moments before it gives in.
The fundamental materialists and religion has been at each others throats for so long that the middle ground idea that we are part of... consciousness exploration... has snook up behind them and is tapping them both on the back and saying...
"hey Black and White... everything's really just a shade of grey... chill"
IAB, here is your answer.
This is a video that Bedeekin posted recently on another great Forum, that many of us have become familiar with lately.
Your answer is at about the 34:00 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg&feature=player_embedded#!
The entire video is excellent as well.
ohh those materialistic scientists. they shouldnt explore the universe and reality while their ego is following them like a shadow and hiding the truth with a cloak of skepticism by telling that this and this sounds like nonsense.
By the way this reminds me this quote: "The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence." - Nikola Tesla
Quote from: astralnaut1 on March 25, 2013, 06:38:13
ohh those materialistic scientists. they shouldn't explore the universe and reality while their ego is following them like a shadow and hiding the truth with a cloak of skepticism by telling that this and this sounds like nonsense.
I think that this goes for all forms of exploration.
In the second vid, there is mention of the wise race of Egypt and were supposedly clued up on 'the after life' but this same race does not have the best of reputations in regard to how they used other races and even how they used the less well off of their own 'kind'.
There is mention of 'hell' in the second vid as well - a kind of 'wake up kicking' Rupert Shelldrake speaks about.
I think something like this is going on:
The Astral Plain is not as it might appear. Its properties are such that human imagination make real of the things imagined and thus those things imagined came after human beings, rather than before.
If so, then this explains the existence of heavens and hells and angels and demons and unicorns and Easter bunnies and every other thing which human beings have created in their imaginations.
Ironically, humans are not aware that they do this – that they are able to do such a thing.
This gives the usurper the advantage because it was created by humans and resides in an aspect/zone of Astral as real as the Astral properties make it.
So the creators (humans) have created these gods etc...and assigned these ones all manner of power, including the title of 'creators of human beings' so there you go...The creators created something and then unwittingly gave that something the title of creator of human beings.
Would such a thing want to relinquish its title and assumed powers granted by its human creators? Would want to enlighten its creators to the truth?
Even if it wanted to that it could easily do this?
What if humans no longer believed in it? Would it begin to cease to be - to become erased?
Aye – there are zones in the Astral which are fading, falling apart – all due to lack of focus or belief - human focus and belief.
Yet these creations need not be erased. They need to be seen for what they are, not for what they are not.
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I like the idea of being tapped into every one's mind. I was more or less concerned with the harm of mainstream science acknowledging the existence of telepathy, remote viewing, and other phenomenon. But you can't just open that can of worms and expect the other stuff to remain hidden so I see why the powers that be would prefer it all remain one big joke.
William- I'm not sure what you mean by some parts of the "astral" may cease to exist, unless you're referring to belief territories that are sustained through beliefs that are themselves ceasing to exist. I'm of the belief that it only takes one consciousness to believe in something to make that a reality for themselves. You absolutely nailed it concerning why negative entity concepts as well as other stuff continue on because people create them through their beliefs and can thus "see" them in the "astral".
I know we say all the time that we can create or manifest whatever we want through out thoughts but in my experience, it takes intent. In other words, I never saw demons in my early years of exploration even though I believed in them at the time because I never wanted to see them. So I certainly never tried to manifest one.
You really do need to consciously make an effort to have an OOBE with awareness and explore for yourself. I may be mistaken but it appears as if you are very suspicious of the "astral". There is no doubt that there are some entities that do choose to deceive those that they can but that doesn't mean anything in and of itself. That's life, or more appropriately, that's lesser evolved consciousness.
Regardless of what came first or the intent behind the "astral", there is very little evidence, if any, that suggests we can avoid it or do much about it once we lose our physical bodies. We are all glad to answer questions and debate what we have seen and learned but the best remedy to any problem is to go and see for yourself. I think you are slowly accepting this but for whatever reason, you are still hesitant.
Whatever you have learned through Ouija may be good data but you are at a disadvantage by not seeing who you are communicating with. I know it's possible and attempted quite frequently by some to change their appearance in the "astral" but if you personally have good intent, you will be aware or at least, feel that something is amiss. And the more experienced you are, the harder it is to be fooled.
While Michael persinger is actually coming a few steps on from his original completely materialist views... he is still stuck in little picture science. Hopefully he will see the error of his ways.
Quote from: Wi11iam on March 25, 2013, 12:15:09
What if humans no longer believed in it? Would it begin to cease to be - to become erased?
Aye – there are zones in the Astral which are fading, falling apart – all due to lack of focus or belief - human focus and belief.
Yet these creations need not be erased. They need to be seen for what they are, not for what they are not.
Like an ageing film-set that's grown over with weeds and falling apart exposing the carpentry behind the plaster clad brick walls.
'Dream Middlesbrough' is a great evidence of this... only to my own experiments and investigation.
It appears that there be a shared and constructed version of our earth. It's much smaller than this one.. locationally countries are much tightly packed and towns/cities are separated by almost no distance... depending on how 'lived in' or 'travelled' the road to each is.
In Bray we have a church that when you enter... can be seen the moment you drive or walk into it... if you come from the south going north.
(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/51/56/515613_29017820.jpg)
(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/97/66/976690_c4497fce.jpg)
This has been visible and a landmark to visitors since 1300s.
When I am in the nonphysical version of Bray it is there... like in the photograph... perfectly reproduced, including the flag.
However, when I go to the actual church, the bell tower is almost non-existent and looks very abstract... only being a quarter of the height and the church itself is smaller and resembles what it used to looked like probably when it was first built.
It's interesting that a quarter way up the bell tower is where the bell ringers ring the bells. The tower itself is a collective construct made up of people looking up into the bell tower (the bell ringers) and the people who have lived and travelled through Bray... reinforcing the tower at a distance but breaking down as an abstract view because it's not that visible when you get close... the only view it is visible in is the main door when looking up. Even then it looks massive.
This is evidence to me that the local nonphysical is a construct of our shared view of the world.
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 25, 2013, 12:56:23
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I like the idea of being tapped into every one's mind. I was more or less concerned with the harm of mainstream science acknowledging the existence of telepathy, remote viewing, and other phenomenon. But you can't just open that can of worms and expect the other stuff to remain hidden so I see why the powers that be would prefer it all remain one big joke.
William- I'm not sure what you mean by some parts of the "astral" may cease to exist, unless you're referring to belief territories that are sustained through beliefs that are themselves ceasing to exist. I'm of the belief that it only takes one consciousness to believe in something to make that a reality for themselves. You absolutely nailed it concerning why negative entity concepts as well as other stuff continue on because people create them through their beliefs and can thus "see" them in the "astral".
I know we say all the time that we can create or manifest whatever we want through out thoughts but in my experience, it takes intent. In other words, I never saw demons in my early years of exploration even though I believed in them at the time because I never wanted to see them. So I certainly never tried to manifest one.
You really do need to consciously make an effort to have an OOBE with awareness and explore for yourself. I may be mistaken but it appears as if you are very suspicious of the "astral". There is no doubt that there are some entities that do choose to deceive those that they can but that doesn't mean anything in and of itself. That's life, or more appropriately, that's lesser evolved consciousness.
Regardless of what came first or the intent behind the "astral", there is very little evidence, if any, that suggests we can avoid it or do much about it once we lose our physical bodies. We are all glad to answer questions and debate what we have seen and learned but the best remedy to any problem is to go and see for yourself. I think you are slowly accepting this but for whatever reason, you are still hesitant.
Whatever you have learned through Ouija may be good data but you are at a disadvantage by not seeing who you are communicating with. I know it's possible and attempted quite frequently by some to change their appearance in the "astral" but if you personally have good intent, you will be aware or at least, feel that something is amiss. And the more experienced you are, the harder it is to be fooled.
As I have shared in other posts Simon – I am in no particular hurry to investigate the Astral – the main reason would be that it would likely provide only subjective evidence and also the experience might be completely different once the actual physical body is removed from the equation.
Sometimes collecting evidence is best done without added distractions, and the evidence so far collected supports the secular scientific stance that there is little point in investigating the "astral" because those who make claims of consistently experiencing this are themselves (by and large) supporting the concept that it is a subjective self created thing which goes a long way to supporting the theory that it is 'all in the individuals mind' and while Rupert Shelldrake suggests that the 'mind' is more a shared thing – that it does not reside in a persons head, this is not so apparently understood by those who are accomplished travellers – their experiences are still largely seen to be something they themselves and no one else shares or has access to, and even the 'astral pulse island' conceptual experiment has produce no conclusive evidence to the contrary.
In relation to Ouija, I can underline the fact that using such device of such dubious reputation shows in itself that I am not afraid to investigate and am careful in examining the data presented.
Certainly face to face might seem the ultimate way to converse. Often it is simply not an option ... take the internet for example – and this way we are ourselves communicating – how do we 'know' the other personality (ies) are actually even being truthful? The answer is to examine the expression – and if necessary get them to come out from behind their avatar –
How can this be achieved through Ouija? Most of the information I am relaying comes from that data access – not to say that I did not suspect through my data gathering processes years before I finally used Ouija but yes, the confirmation was given that I was definitely on the right track about those suspicions when I questioned the various 'personalities' I engaged with therein and ultimately through the process I was informed that I was really communing with aspects of the same thing (that 'mind/consciousness) which altogether equalled "Me" – I was told this and it took a long time after this for the data to 'register' in my understanding.
...Which is mostly the case... I collect data in its raw state and process it as more data comes along which allows for that processing. This is what forms the picture that is otherwise unseen.
Some of the earlier communions through Ouija quite often had to do with the expression 'Try to remember William' – something I often replied with 'Remember what?'...no answer to that question was forth-coming and I can understand far better now why that was so.
I have remembered on my own volition and the data I have been collecting is what has enable me to remember..
Inevitably and why I can understand that these vids were removed from TED – is that they criticise secular science with nothing more than subjective claims and quite rightly deserve to be treated so on account of this.
The nature of the subjective is that is has no room for the collective...even the collective mind/consciousness, and regardless of personal bias for or against science, it simply would not exist as the tool creating entity that it is if not for the fact that the tools were created through objective minds working together, as my thread here speaks about:
Our Future In The Physical Universe (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html)
I am not disadvantage at all in not communing face to face because it is about what is being communicated to me (expressed) and in this, even face to face in this universe, if the data being communicated is corrupted or otherwise suspect, I know this due to other data I have verified as true. My usual response is to share that data with the other and depending on their expression returned regarding the data I share, allows me to ascertain their most likely motive regarding me and why they want me to believe in their data.
Standard stuff.
On your wanting clarification – I am likely speaking about ancient belief systems which have long since faded in the collective mind of human beings...the result is that these fade away because they require collective human belief in order to make them 'real' – and the Astral properties are what give 'life' to belief, subjective personal or collective.
Beliefs though, are in themselves not REAL, simply because they are believed. Even that the creative instant manifestation properties can make them 'real' to the perceiver does not in itself mean they are actually real.
Simply put – there are religious pastors and such who claim to have witnessed first hand the existence of 'hell' and thus that data confirms the truth of their beliefs in their religion and their gods etc...
It is not evidence of the truth of their beliefs at all – but is perceived to be.
Quote from: Bedeekin on March 25, 2013, 14:01:48
While Michael persinger is actually coming a few steps on from his original completely materialist views... he is still stuck in little picture science. Hopefully he will see the error of his ways.
Like an ageing film-set that's grown over with weeds and falling apart exposing the carpentry behind the plaster clad brick walls.
'Dream Middlesbrough' is a great evidence of this... only to my own experiments and investigation.
It appears that there be a shared and constructed version of our earth. It's much smaller than this one.. locationally countries are much tightly packed and towns/cities are separated by almost no distance... depending on how 'lived in' or 'travelled' the road to each is.
In Bray we have a church that when you enter... can be seen the moment you drive or walk into it... if you come from the south going north.
This has been visible and a landmark to visitors since 1300s.
When I am in the nonphysical version of Bray it is there... like in the photograph... perfectly reproduced, including the flag.
However, when I go to the actual church, the bell tower is almost non-existent and looks very abstract... only being a quarter of the height and the church itself is smaller and resembles what it used to looked like probably when it was first built.
It's interesting that a quarter way up the bell tower is where the bell ringers ring the bells. The tower itself is a collective construct made up of people looking up into the bell tower (the bell ringers) and the people who have lived and travelled through Bray... reinforcing the tower at a distance but breaking down as an abstract view because it's not that visible when you get close... the only view it is visible in is the main door when looking up. Even then it looks massive.
This is evidence to me that the local nonphysical is a construct of our shared view of the world.
Our shared view of the world is not 'on the same page' which explains why there are pieces missing in the 'local nonphysical' which are not missing in the real physical.
It goes a very long way in explaining why the non-physical – or that aspect of it which creates from human belief systems, is not actually real.
This is not to say that overall IT is not real, but that the aspect of it most experienced by travellers is not real.
My data suggests that it is this vast aspect which acts as a shield or curtain or wall or thing which obscures and hides the actual REAL and does so purposefully...or an aspect of it consciously works to keep the REAL hidden behind the façade.
My data also verifies that steps are being taken from both the physical and the non physical to remove this veil...for the sake of all.
QuoteInevitably and why I can understand that these vids were removed from TED – is that they criticise secular science with nothing more than subjective claims and quite rightly deserve to be treated so on account of this.
I may be wrong but my understanding of these particular talks in question were not to bring forth and debate any particular evidence but were rather intended to encourage the direction of focus. Under this pretense, I consider it appalling for the scientific community to outright dismiss their ideas.
Regardless, there have been many studies done by reputable labs across the world that have studied certain aspects of the "supernatural" sciences and have independently confirmed or verified that something is indeed happening that is out of the realm of our (we the peons) current understanding. If this were the case concerning any other science, there would be a frenzy generated to understand more. Call me naive or foolish but I'm past the point of thinking they are just skeptics and I wholeheartedly believe that much of this is known as fact to the "powers that be" and there is a massive campaign intended to discredit any scientist that takes this stuff seriously.
Quote from: Wi11iam on March 25, 2013, 17:19:55
Our shared view of the world is not 'on the same page' which explains why there are pieces missing in the 'local nonphysical' which are not missing in the real physical.
Exactly.
Quote from: Wi11iam on March 25, 2013, 17:19:55
My data suggests that it is this vast aspect which acts as a shield or curtain or wall or thing which obscures and hides the actual REAL and does so purposefully...or an aspect of it consciously works to keep the REAL hidden behind the façade.
My data also verifies that steps are being taken from both the physical and the non physical to remove this veil...for the sake of all.
I quite like the veil.. it has my dog Bobby and my dad here... and Bray and flowers... and my Kathryn. I love the veil... the veil has been great to me... has it not been great to you? Do you want the veil lifting?
what good would it do to have this veil removed?
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 25, 2013, 19:19:14
I may be wrong but my understanding of these particular talks in question were not to bring forth and debate any particular evidence but were rather intended to encourage the direction of focus. Under this pretense, I consider it appalling for the scientific community to outright dismiss their ideas.
Regardless, there have been many studies done by reputable labs across the world that have studied certain aspects of the "supernatural" sciences and have independently confirmed or verified that something is indeed happening that is out of the realm of our (we the peons) current understanding. If this were the case concerning any other science, there would be a frenzy generated to understand more. Call me naive or foolish but I'm past the point of thinking they are just skeptics and I wholeheartedly believe that much of this is known as fact to the "powers that be" and there is a massive campaign intended to discredit any scientist that takes this stuff seriously.
Are you suggesting conspiracy Simon?
I don't think the scientific community outright dismiss such ideas. The type of science to which is being criticised is what I call your average garden variety type which is concerned with and financed by various administrations and involves governance and directives aimed at social order and control.
Such things as 'supernatural' do not warrant investigation and such investigation would not be authorised by either investors or taxpayers.
That 'something indeed is happening' is irrelevant to the average human being focused upon their part in the social structures who have or don't have particular beliefs and are involved in achieving what they can with what is available for themselves and families etc.
Others dabble – either with religious inflection or through less mainstream recognised manner.
No one categorically knows for sure what this 'supernatural' stuff really is about, and the evidence suggests that having such beliefs are detrimental to general wellbeing and social peace...religion is historically guilty of some heinous stuff but in general the world is turning away from the superstitious and focusing upon the more hard-copy evidence which is abundant in this physical universe.
It is understandable enough – even given that there are no doubt many sincere individuals involved in exploration of the mind...and are not a disturbance on the society they live in.
Even on this board I have seen it expressed that this physical universe is of no particular interest to 'the supernatural' and is seen as some kind of ...well not nice thing, especially in regard to human beings and what human beings do.
This attitude seems to permeate through religion and culture to some degree...we are often lead to believe that in general we are worthless and nothing much and treated as such. This is from those who believe in 'supernatural' as much as from those who don't.
'The Powers That Be' would know this, and how it affects individuals – even on a mass scale, so why would they promote investigation into something that seems to resist investigation anyway, and in general produces negativity through the believers against them ?
Ultimately it may just get down to the individual but in the mean time I am within a universe which offers not only a subjective reality but also an objective one and the objective one seems stable and less bendable to subjective will, and thus a good place to develop team work and this particular science seems to have the edge over...supernatural, religion, belief, etc...because it works toward a collective agenda which circumnavigates the human drama of which much of what humans believe are contributing factors to that drama...general science is used to capitalise on the human drama for profit, which might be what you are seeing and responding to.
Even so, what is it you have discovered in your supernatural travels which would help change the way life is lived on this planet in relation to the masses?
This stable universe also means that it is easier to map the progress of Consciousness which is involved within this universe and see where it is heading, despite that human drama.
Quote from: Bedeekin on March 25, 2013, 19:44:36
I quite like the veil.. it has my dog Bobby and my dad here... and Bray and flowers... and my Kathryn. I love the veil... the veil has been great to me... has it not been great to you? Do you want the veil lifting?
what good would it do to have this veil removed?
You like something which hides the truth?
Quote from: Wi11iam on March 25, 2013, 20:24:44
Even so, what is it you have discovered in your supernatural travels which would help change the way life is lived on this planet in relation to the masses?
Once again Wi11iam states how he does not wish to access the NPR himself because "it would likely provide only subjective evidence and also the experience might be completely different once the actual physical body is removed from the equation".
But, he still does wishes to live it through those of us that do.
Why do you fear it Wi11iam? What's the real reason?
I have a very strong feeling that you are the one hiding the truth! :wink:
Quote from: Wi11iam on March 25, 2013, 20:28:42
You like something which hides the truth?
I just love my life... I can't help that. I love my family and those around me and I prefer it just the way it is. I like dealing with pressures and the bad things... the challenges and the pitfalls. That's me though... that's my truth.
Hopefully this will be a selective unveiling... and if so.. I hope it is all you want it to be.
Just because I try to understand the different perspectives of groups who agree with their objective realities does not mean that I agree with what they do or why they are doing it.
Flinging veils aside is the object of true scientific discovery and we would do well to appreciate our part in this investigation of both physical and non physical realities.
The one thing which stood out for me in the vid is the story of "The Earth Mother" whom I immediately recognised as a primary personality with whom I communed a great deal with *over the Ouija.
(*like over the telephone)
She is a wonderful informative adaptable individual who just happens to have access to all the records specific to Earth, and that is a lot of data.
Most of what She spoke with me about went over my head at the time but is more relevant now due to my own progression.
That which didn't go over my head, surely has been helpful. I am in awe still, but more focused and it is fortunate that I was already over worshipping anyone/thing or I would surely have fallen head over heels.
I find myself in a difficult position in having the opportunity afforded to me by human science to pass the data on in an understandable and reasonable way – a task more doomed to fail than not, but one I would be remiss not to at least give a perpetual try at.
I am learning and adapting daily. I have discovered a fondness for many of those whom I have met through this invisible connection that we know involves wires and electricity and programs of codes and interaction and the veil of being able to remain anonymous.
Central to this is my knowing that the core of each of us resides the Source and the Codes of recognition which we can remember – if we so choose to do so.
The fact that TED has censored is a veil correct?
It is not the only veil nor is science the only sector doing the veiling.
Eventually I knew Her as "QueenBee"... (/ʘ\)
Quote from: Bedeekin on March 25, 2013, 20:39:45
I just love my life... I can't help that. I love my family and those around me and I prefer it just the way it is. I like dealing with pressures and the bad things... the challenges and the pitfalls. That's me though... that's my truth.
Hopefully this will be a selective unveiling... and if so.. I hope it is all you want it to be.
Scientifically speaking, even that you prefer the way your life is, this is going to change and the change will be unavoidable.
This simply has to do with the nature of physical reality and we are all involved, no matter what we might prefer or believe.
This of course does not and never has suggested that you need to stop loving your life, family and those around you. Indeed, it will advantage all concerned, and more so that the love is returned.
I do not see though, where hiding behind a veil, or selective unveiling bears relevance as possible concern you might lose these 'things' should said veil be lifted..
Quote from: Lionheart on March 25, 2013, 20:38:49
Once again Wi11iam states how he does not wish to access the NPR himself because "it would likely provide only subjective evidence and also the experience might be completely different once the actual physical body is removed from the equation".
But, he still does wishes to live it through those of us that do.
Why do you fear it Wi11iam? What's the real reason?
I have a very strong feeling that you are the one hiding the truth! :wink:
My reasons stated are reasonable and purposeful – I can wait, knowing that eventually this unavoidable certainty will eventuate and while I am waiting I can continue processing the data. I am not concerned with death or what waits after-'life'. I remain totally open to the possibilities.
I do not 'live through' anyone of you. I accept the data of experience you might share and use it to see the bigger picture – certainly not your data alone, nor the data of only 'travellers' of the NPR
I have no answer to your question because it is assumption on your part that I fear and have an alternate reason I am veiling from anyone. I am not hiding anything – indeed I am trying to uncover the hidden.
I am not suggesting that there is a conspiracy. I am simply acknowledging one that is in the open.
Secrecy is not required for a conspiracy. All you need is two or more people to come together and combine their efforts to achieve a goal.
QuoteThat 'something indeed is happening' is irrelevant to the average human being focused upon their part in the social structures who have or don't have particular beliefs and are involved in achieving what they can with what is available for themselves and families etc.
The mass see no relevance in this because they have been told that it is all nonsense. If they knew what was truly possible, relevant wouldn't come close to describing the usefulness of these discredited sciences to the average Joe. Just imagine how much relevance the money saved from medical bills would be to people and their families if they knew that psychic healing was a true reality. That's one example.
It seems obvious to me now that "the powers that be" would rather not have any of this stuff be accredited.
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 25, 2013, 22:15:17
I am not suggesting that there is a conspiracy. I am simply acknowledging one that is in the open.
Secrecy is not required for a conspiracy. All you need is two or more people to come together and combine their efforts to achieve a goal.
The mass see no relevance in this because they have been told that it is all nonsense. If they knew what was truly possible, relevant wouldn't come close to describing the usefulness of these discredited sciences to the average Joe. Just imagine how much relevance the money saved from medical bills would be to people and their families if they knew that psychic healing was a true reality. That's one example.
It seems obvious to me now that "the powers that be" would rather not have any of this stuff be accredited.
Okay - so who or what are these 'powers that be'? Those who censor and veil?
Quote from: Wi11iam on March 25, 2013, 22:18:47
Okay - so who or what are these 'powers that be'? Those who censor and veil?
I am speaking of world governments, the wealthy elite, and major corporations to name a few. I am only referring to the "powers that be" in this PMR.
I'm not sure they are suppressing anything other than the common man/woman's ability to be anything other than a worker ant.
I really don't think they can or indeed are suppressing us spiritually and consciously. They have their heads stuck into what makes money.. not how you can go to Alpha Centauri for free.
You know in a way you have been right all along Wi11iam.
There is much that I haven't said, a lot of things that I have come to know during my NPR visits.
When I first started to AP, I was told to "just observe". I chose to question everything instead and also shared my experiences and what I learned from them with others.
I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out. Could it have been from my own Consciousness, I have found that anything is possible .
I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I was being chastised for trying to help others with what I was seeing, learning and experiencing. I even called Coast to Coast a couple of times to set their Guest straight.
But I do now.
The reason is simple, people will find out all of this when they are ready to. They will find out the answers to all their questions, once they are ready to deal with and handle those answers.
Just like I was shown my truths, everyone gets to witness theirs when they are ready for that information to be shown to them.
...and after while you come to just "know" things. It's not really coming from a conscious memory you have. You just do.
This is when once again, you become a quiet observer! :wink:
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 25, 2013, 22:27:09
I am speaking of world governments, the wealthy elite, and major corporations to name a few. I am only referring to the "powers that be" in this PMR.
From what I can gather; these also have their counterparts in the 'afterlife' much as we all do and I think there really might be some or a lot of truth to the idea that they have been part of the elect for centuries and perhaps eons.
Reincarnating over and over into their positions, they keep their place in the scheme of things. It is possible that just as they manipulate through various means here in this world, they also do the same in the NPM.
However, they are out classed because they seek to keep the illusion alive and while there is a certain power to this, it too is illusionary compared to that which they purposefully seek to hide (veil).
The individual who can learn from this will not have to go through that lesson again.
Quote from: Lionheart on March 25, 2013, 23:52:16
You know in a way you have been right all along Wi11iam.
There is much that I haven't said, a lot of things that I have come to know during my NPR visits.
When I first started to AP, I was told to "just observe". I chose to question everything instead and also shared my experiences and what I learned from them with others.
I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out. Could it have been from my own Consciousness, I have found that anything is possible .
I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I was being chastised for trying to help others with what I was seeing, learning and experiencing. I even called Coast to Coast a couple of times to set their Guest straight.
But I do now.
The reason is simple, people will find out all of this when they are ready to. They will find out the answers to all their questions, once they are ready to deal with and handle those answers.
Just like I was shown my truths, everyone gets to witness theirs when they are ready for that information to be shown to them.
...and after while you come to just "know" things. It's not really coming from a conscious memory you have. You just do.
This is when once again, you become a quiet observer! :wink:
I cannot say why this has been so for you. What I can say is that if there is data which might be helpful then there is
no good reason to suppress it.
If you would encourage individuals to practice ways of achieving OOBE and 'seeing for their selves' then you are not merely being an observer but you are consciously participating.
If what they experience is only subjective and based on belief then what you encourage may be no more or less than participation in illusion – something for the ego self to get distracted with and of no real value to real growth.
It is important to understand that just because you might experience things while attached to this PMR does not prove that this will be what is experienced when that body you have eventually dies...
Maybe it will maybe it won't, but I caution vigilance myself. When veils conceal, deny, prohibit, censor, then we can shrug and accept the official explanation (observe how that is going in this world) or we can make an effort to get closer to the truth.
One thing I do not want to have to answer to is why I kept my mouth shut...and I don't think an answer such as 'I was told to just observe' will cut the mustard.
The most likely reply to such would be 'who told you?' and to say 'Oh I don't know, I only know that I was shown what they could prevent me doing, so I assumed they were an authority over me' would be pretty lame to say the least.
I now understand exactly why you don't AP Wi11iam.
You answered my question without even knowing it.
So now, you will feverishly go over what you said, looking for what I am talking about right now.
You are becoming easier and easier to read! :wink:
QuoteOne thing I do not want to have to answer to is why I kept my mouth shut...and I don't think an answer such as 'I was told to just observe' will cut the mustard.
The most likely reply to such would be 'who told you?' and to say 'Oh I don't know, I only know that I was shown what they could prevent me doing, so I assumed they were an authority over me' would be pretty lame to say the least.
Who do you think we might have to answer to?
I do not like to go into much detail concerning many of my experiences. This is only because they are intimately personal and can provide no more data than what someone can see and learn for themselves.
Contrary, to what you might believe, no one here is guarding any secrets of the astral, we are all guarding personal truths. And I do mean all.
You are in danger of trapping yourself into a belief of their being secret keepers of the astral. There may or may not be, I don't know. But I can guarantee, that there will be secrets withheld from you when the times comes because you already believe it so. Just be careful about that.
Quote from: Lionheart on March 26, 2013, 01:03:41
I now understand exactly why you don't AP Wi11iam.
You answered my question without even knowing it.
So now, you will feverishly go over what you said, looking for what I am talking about right now.
You are becoming easier and easier to read! :wink:
You need to become honest...with your true self.
You never asked me a question. You are a game player, but this is no game.
You will discover that - not by observing or even accepting.
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 26, 2013, 01:17:57
Who do you think we might have to answer to?
I do not like to go into much detail concerning many of my experiences. This is only because they are intimately personal and can provide no more data than what someone can see and learn for themselves.
Contrary, to what you might believe, no one here is guarding any secrets of the astral, we are all guarding personal truths. And I do mean all.
You are in danger of trapping yourself into a belief of their being secret keepers of the astral. There may or may not be, I don't know. But I can guarantee, that there will be secrets withheld from you when the times comes because you already believe it so. Just be careful about that.
Simon – do you read the other posts? I was commenting on another post regarding what was said ... specifically;
" I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out."
Your not going into details about your experiences is not relevant – many people have do and will continue to do so and it is that data which interests me and allows me to connect the dots. Your sharing or keeping things to yourself is not any issue for me.
I do not have an opinion on anyone here guarding 'secrets of the astral' because their 'secrets' are most likely subjective experience which as you say, is personal to them.
Whether I 'believe' or not that secrets will be kept from me is not here nor there. If you were to tell me that if I believed that no secrets would be kept from me, would you also guarantee that this would be the case?
Indeed, how can you guarantee anything?
Another likely reason TED disasociated might have to do with mention of mind altering drugs.
I was reading some BB rules and this is what they said about posting on the topic of drugs:
Drug discussion
Drug and substance usage is practiced by some shamanistic groups and individuals, to obtain spiritual experiences. While such practices are up to the individuals concerned, the discussion of these things is a matter of public concern. Detailed discussion of drug usage for the purposes of obtaining spiritual experience is not allowed on the Astral Dynamics forums. Our forums attract a wide age group, including children and teens. Exposing impressionable members to ideas and promises of spiritual experiences through substance use is not allowed. Such conversations should be conducted outside of the forums, and not posted in public. Conversations that discuss and/or promote drug usage are also illegal in some countries.
Please understand that this reasoning has *nothing* to do with respect issues for mature individuals or religious or shamanic type practices involving drugs and substances relating to spiritual experience, to all of which we have the utmost respect and consideration.
The 4 key points of this issue:
1: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au is available internationally to anyone
2: Many impressionable young people and teens frequent this forum.
3: Discussions on using drugs, illegal or legal, to achieve spiritual and OBE type experiences could legally be viewed as promoting drug use, and as promoting drug use to minors, in some countries.
4: To allow adult drug related topics and discussions in such a public and international forum, that discusses spiritual matters, would force us at the very least to seek extensive legal opinions from multiple countries, to impose and enforce age limitations and proof of age of membership, plus extensive legal disclaimers in multiple languages, international litigation insurance, lawyers, etc, etc, etc. This would be a proverbial nightmare.
This puts the discussion of drug use relating to spiritual experience in the 'too hard basket' of our forums.
Special note regarding Salvinia Divorum: This substance is in Australia, and controlled in the US. It is also illegal on some U.S. states (see: http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_law3.shtml). In light of this, it is considered an illegal drug and falls under the above rules. Please do not consider Salvia to be "okay" to talk about, regardless of how you personally feel about it or whether or not it is legal where you happen to live.
This decision is final.
http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/faq.php?faq=boardrules#faq_interpretationrules
This is from Astral Dynamics Down-Under Community and is shows that even the open-minded groups encouraging awareness of altered state experiences are loath to have to deal with the subject, so it is no particular wonder that general scientific communities are not interested in being associated with the subject.
Of course I'm reading the posts and I was replying specifically to your response in regards to Lion stating what he has been told in the NPR, namely to not tell others and to just observe.
To say " I don't know, I was just following orders", does not cut the mustard in military tribunals covering war crimes but it's perfectly acceptable and understandable when someone is shown subjective truths in the NPR. Again, to understand this reasoning, one needs to have their own experiences.
I must have completely misread your words, so I apologize if I have. Twice now, two members have reported that they have been told in the NPR not to speak of certain experiences. Both times you responded how that doesn't cut it and that everything should be reported. I mistakenly took that to mean that you were interested in their subjective experiences. Silly me. :? :-)
Quote from: its_all_bad on March 26, 2013, 21:13:47
I must have completely misread your words, so I apologize if I have. Twice now, two members have reported that they have been told in the NPR not to speak of certain experiences. Both times you responded how that doesn't cut it and that everything should be reported. I mistakenly took that to mean that you were interested in their subjective experiences. Silly me. :? :-)
It doesn't matter what Wi11iam says about the fact that it doesn't cut it and that everything should be reported.
You either listen and abide or you don't get to access the information anymore. Plain and simple.
Which means we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place! :wink:
But, I wouldn't expect Wi11iam to understand this anyways. Perhaps this is the reason the NPR hasn't revealed itself to him consciously aware already.
Quote from: Lionheart on March 25, 2013, 23:52:16
You know in a way you have been right all along Wi11iam.
There is much that I haven't said, a lot of things that I have come to know during my NPR visits.
When I first started to AP, I was told to "just observe". I chose to question everything instead and also shared my experiences and what I learned from them with others.
I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out. Could it have been from my own Consciousness, I have found that anything is possible .
I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I was being chastised for trying to help others with what I was seeing, learning and experiencing. I even called Coast to Coast a couple of times to set their Guest straight.
But I do now.
The reason is simple, people will find out all of this when they are ready to. They will find out the answers to all their questions, once they are ready to deal with and handle those answers.
Just like I was shown my truths, everyone gets to witness theirs when they are ready for that information to be shown to them.
...and after while you come to just "know" things. It's not really coming from a conscious memory you have. You just do.
This is when once again, you become a quiet observer! :wink:
u know lionheart i may bump heads with u at times but that right there is 100% i can agree with and very very well put.
but throwing in my 2 cents i was told that looks can be deceiving and that sometimes in life we have decoys, right now as we speak they are debating the definition of marriage and the rights of homo sexual individuals, which i do agree is an important inevitable subject to a certain degree, but! it is a total diversion for the majority of the country to get their attention away from the economy which in reality is way more important at the moment... i feel the same when it comes to NPR and physical reality....
i do truly believe in my heart that the i guess so called "discovery" of NPR is super important to the moral and intellectual foundations of a living being but at the same time i believe and i mean truly believe that recognizing, enforcing and Defending the
unalienable rights of an individual in the physical and (NPR) is way way more important than getting the knowledge out of astral projection or NPR whatever
if we fail to do that then there wont be anyone left even believing that they are free living individuals in a PHYSICAL REALITY, everyone will be a mindless worker ant
Conspiracy wise???? dude I'm from chicago of course they dont want the scientist to expose anything, corruption knows an uneducated people is easiest to persuade or manipulate. corruption stems from Evil and the root of all Evil is the Love for Money and or POWER
NPR or astral projection is Self Evident enough said
I don't necessarily believe that there are different realms or levels of the astral but it sure seems like it at times.
Some of my experiences are completely painted by my "wants" and expectations and other times, there seems to be very little that is influenced by the same. Regardless of how this all works, we will only see what we are open to seeing. Plain and simple.
If I'm completely closed off to something existing, I won't experience it but if I am open to the possibility of something existing, then I just might see it whether i consciously want to or not. When we are ready, we will each see our own truth's. What does that mean? Exactly what it says.
There are somethings that are facts objectively despite what we believe while there are other things that may only be true for you because you personally want to believe it. Both are personal truths.
It remains evident that being able to travel in other realities does not in itself change the way things are unfolding in this one. To suggest that because someone is more focused upon what is going on in this reality and as a result is purposefully exempt from experiencing other realities is religious thinking and bears no resemblance to the actual truth.
I am connected in other ways and not exempt in the slightest.
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 07, 2013, 17:04:27
It remains evident that being able to travel in other realities does not in itself change the way things are unfolding in this one. To suggest that because someone is more focused upon what is going on in this reality and as a result is purposefully exempt from experiencing other realities is religious thinking and bears no resemblance to the actual truth.
What truth !!!!!
do you even know specifically of what you speak of ???!!!
Do you honestly believe there is something NEW in our spiritual understanding????!!!!
Tell me this Truth PLEASE right here in this topic!!! I want to be enlightened since i have not found this Truth, the final Truth, the one Truth to rule them all!!!
At the end of the road we realized that there was no new destination, but that the Goal is to not forget the road which leads to the Final destination.
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 11, 2013, 19:09:14
What truth !!!!!
do you even know specifically of what you speak of ???!!!
Do you honestly believe there is something NEW in our spiritual understanding????!!!!
Tell me this Truth PLEASE right here in this topic!!! I want to be enlightened since i have not found this Truth, the final Truth, the one Truth to rule them all!!!
At the end of the road we realized that there was no new destination, but that the Goal is to not forget the road which leads to the Final destination.
If you are telling me that I am exempt then where is the evidence?
Im not excluding u im all im saying is that ur final truth is to uphold that which has always existed and been self-evident
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 14, 2013, 01:54:31
Im not excluding u im all im saying is that ur final truth is to uphold that which has always existed and been self-evident
My comment which you quoted:
It remains evident that being able to travel in other realities does not in itself change the way things are unfolding in this one. To suggest that because someone is more focused upon what is going on in this reality and as a result is purposefully exempt from experiencing other realities is religious thinking and bears no resemblance to the actual truth.was in relation to a prior post with a personal comment directed at me and isn't even relevant to the thread topic, other than perhaps to show the difference between a scientific type approach and a religious type one.
I have no 'final truth' - I do not even understand that expression. That which has always existed is not always evident to 'self' .
Hey there, William. :-)
I was wondering something. What would you do if you were to awake and find yourself in the "astral" spontaneously with all your awareness and focus?
Would you take advantage of it and explore or would you exit? You have already acknowledged that you have done your time in the "astral" without your full awareness as everyone does. I know you are very goal oriented and you have your reasons for not projecting but I don't think you would pass up the opportunity to explore with full awareness if were to just happen.
Quote from: its_all_bad on April 14, 2013, 14:12:21
Hey there, William. :-)
I was wondering something. What would you do if you were to awake and find yourself in the "astral" spontaneously with all your awareness and focus?
Would you take advantage of it and explore or would you exit? You have already acknowledged that you have done your time in the "astral" without your full awareness as everyone does. I know you are very goal oriented and you have your reasons for not projecting but I don't think you would pass up the opportunity to explore with full awareness if were to just happen.
Hey there (I forgot your name) :)
Do you think what you describe above is what death is about?
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 14, 2013, 17:02:33
Hey there (I forgot your name) :)
Simon
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 14, 2013, 17:02:33Do you think what you describe above is what death is about?
It's interesting that you asked that because my intro into all of this occurred spontaneously and in that moment, I 100% believed that the only way that the experience was possible was if I was dead.
So, I tend to believe that it might be a close experience but of course I can't be sure.
Quote from: its_all_bad on April 14, 2013, 22:38:55
It's interesting that you asked that because my intro into all of this occurred spontaneously and in that moment, I 100% believed that the only way that the experience was possible was if I was dead.
So, I tend to believe that it might be a close experience but of course I can't be sure.
Well Simon, my own experiences show me that something similar occurs at death, although as you say, we cannot be sure - but certainly the death of the body will provide us each with an answer eventually.
Quote from: its_all_bad on April 14, 2013, 14:12:21
I was wondering something. What would you do if you were to awake and find yourself in the "astral" spontaneously with all your awareness and focus?
Would you take advantage of it and explore or would you exit? You have already acknowledged that you have done your time in the "astral" without your full awareness as everyone does. I know you are very goal oriented and you have your reasons for not projecting but I don't think you would pass up the opportunity to explore with full awareness if were to just happen.
Eventually it will happen upon death, if it happens at all and is not 'all in the brain' Simon. Sometimes we get distracted from the reality we are predominantly within (just as surely as we get distracted by it) - for me the important thing is to learn exactly who/what I am and channel that into whatever reality I am experiencing - such a tiny role in the scheme of things but enjoyable enough.
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 14, 2013, 13:11:43
I have no 'final truth' - I do not even understand that expression. That which has always existed is not always evident to 'self' .
well of course they have to be self-evident or else it couldnt have been found/discovered, but it does not rule out that it is hard to solve
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 16, 2013, 17:11:40
Eventually it will happen upon death, if it happens at all and is not 'all in the brain' Simon. Sometimes we get distracted from the reality we are predominantly within (just as surely as we get distracted by it) - for me the important thing is to learn exactly who/what I am and channel that into whatever reality I am experiencing - such a tiny role in the scheme of things but enjoyable enough.
And Death is the ultimate KISS proof!
Death reveals a level of equality with every
living being. Life obviously is in connection with consciousness.
With Life comes Power, with power, Responsibility and This requires a foundation
having a conscious means you are aware of the descions between good and evil or bad whatever u chose, because if your not aware of the two then your ignorant towards the other, you
Ignore it.
and that video makes a great point we do have a War on consciousness, and it comes from bothsides because even saints can be ignorant towards the natural rights of others.
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 17, 2013, 21:23:05
well of course they have to be self-evident or else it couldnt have been found/discovered, but it does not rule out that it is hard to solve
And Death is the ultimate KISS proof!
Death reveals a level of equality with every living being. Life obviously is in connection with consciousness.
With Life comes Power, with power, Responsibility and This requires a foundation
having a conscious means you are aware of the descions between good and evil or bad whatever u chose, because if your not aware of the two then your ignorant towards the other, you Ignore it.
and that video makes a great point we do have a War on consciousness, and it comes from bothsides because even saints can be ignorant towards the natural rights of others.
Everyone of course is entitled to their beliefs in good versus evil. Those who do should not judge those who prefer not to take sides, but of course often judgement is part of the reason such beliefs exist in the first place. :)
So what is wrong with judgement?
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 18, 2013, 12:33:22
So what is wrong with judgement?
What is wrong with evil?
hey hold on now dont try dodging the question. and there are many things wrong with evil but it is necessary to be good with alil a bit of evil
TED isn't mainstream science. It's pseudo-science from the same people who engineer religions. Whether it's mainstream is entirely subjective as well
well in like the second video(i think) the guy sounds like a stoner to me lol
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 18, 2013, 12:33:22
So what is wrong with judgement?
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 18, 2013, 13:13:20
What is wrong with evil?
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 18, 2013, 18:38:38
hey hold on now dont try dodging the question. and there are many things wrong with evil but it is necessary to be good with alil a bit of evil
Quote from: Wi11iam on April 18, 2013, 02:27:11
Everyone of course is entitled to their beliefs in good versus evil. Those who do should not judge those who prefer not to take sides, but of course often judgement is part of the reason such beliefs exist in the first place. :)
Well then in relation to why you seem to have asked the Q - the question would be better framed as "What is wrong with judging those who prefer not to take sides?" and while I wouldn't necessarily say such activity was 'right' or 'wrong' it is observable enough that such judgments often come from differing belief systems to which those doing the judgments are entangled within, and belief systems often do not allow the individual or collective of individuals to easily identify hypocrisy within their own beliefs, but only within what are often regarded as opposing beliefs.
Now the thread topic is about the TED banning of two talks, and the undercurrent is that there was some undisclosed reason why these talks have been judged worthy of being banned.
:wink:
what i implie with the question is that choice is inevitable and oneday u must chose n there is no such thing middle ground in yes and no
understandable that everyhting is a different shade of gray but, yes or no. the war on consciousness is a yes or no battle
everyone cannot be so called "enlightend" unless you have a mass public willfuly participating in being educated on this.
and for some reason i see its hard to sell this kind of way of "thinking" how we talk here on this forum and other forums,... to other people we see in our lives
Quote from: Mr.Flip on April 22, 2013, 10:51:27
what i implie with the question is that choice is inevitable and oneday u must chose n there is no such thing middle ground in yes and no
understandable that everyhting is a different shade of gray but, yes or no. the war on consciousness is a yes or no battle
everyone cannot be so called "enlightend" unless you have a mass public willfuly participating in being educated on this.
and for some reason i see its hard to sell this kind of way of "thinking" how we talk here on this forum and other forums,... to other people we see in our lives
Perhaps you might want to start a thread along the lines of "
Why everyone must choose good or evil". I would certainly contribute to that discussion.
ok??
id rather make a topic in discussing the issues on how to make people become more open minded. without an open/liberal mind we connot progress from the same spot we've been as a race for years. Everyone still has this way of thinking that kinda shuts off anything that is not yet known or hidden.
i really do hate saying it, cuz it sounds eh too ironic but there is a war on consciousness
who cares about being right or wrong the whole pie is made of will and wanting to know more than what u already do.