1 million dollar paranormal challenge

DarkIntellect · February 25, 2007, 23:15:22

For those who are very skilled at aping, would you be able to do this?

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

kiwibonga · February 25, 2007, 23:39:45

This topic keeps coming up... Usually ends up in arguments...

I'd say nobody feels confident enough to do it... Those who can certainly don't need the money or the fame...

DarkIntellect · February 25, 2007, 23:59:57

It has? Sorry.....

avocado · February 26, 2007, 00:47:33

I just browsed through Randi's entire website and I think he hads a nice point when he said:
"Extraordinary abilities require extraordinary proof." Or something along those lines.

Many people on forums such as these say they can indeed do these things, but very few have done them under controlled circumstances. The irony of it is, many of them say they can do these things quite easily and sufficiantly, but they don't.

I myself have been practising out of body projection for two years and I have had a plathora of conscious projections. And, from personal experience, I think it is VERY likely that the entire experience is fabricated by the mind. Although, with this in consideration, it is still a fantasticly fun thing to do.

I've done many tests for finding people, lottery numbers, cards upside down on a desk, but not of them give sufficiant proof that the phenomena is real. Even in the stickied topic full of 'validations', all of these in my opinion have a large likelyhood of having happend through non-paranormal means.

I am very open to the possibility that some of this is real, perhaps to open, because the scale weighs the other way.

AndrewTheSinger · February 26, 2007, 06:00:49

Quote from: avocado on February 26, 2007, 00:47:33from personal experience, I think it is VERY likely that the entire experience is fabricated by the mind.

Can you say one thing that is not?

The other dimension is a whole different universe, positive validations are exceptions, not the rule. The only connection between these 2 universes is our mind, there's no way to prove a mind thing through physical means, it's like trying to quench your thirst drinking a glass of air.

avocado · February 26, 2007, 06:15:50

There are always ways to prove astral projection.
Robert Monroe did some interesting tests on the matter. Putting objects in one room, and projecting in another. Or the owner of astralvoyage.com for instance, apparantly used out of body projection to win the lottery. That would be proof enough for me!

AndrewTheSinger · February 26, 2007, 06:29:19

Well, if they can go for the lottery then forget about Randi, he won't give away that money anyway, let him deny his existence.

catmeow · February 26, 2007, 06:35:36

avocado,

What you say makes a lot of sense. I too am unsure about how much of LD/OBE/AP is unconcious constructs. However, if you read the 1st validation I posted on the validation thread regarding the shared dream I had with my mother - this goes well beyond coincidence. It does not prove that during OBE' we really leave our bodies, but to me it proves that at least ESP works (my validation could have been a shared dream with ESP operating between myself and my mother).

I have other validations inviolving my mother (we must have shared a "connection") which as far as I am concerned could have easily taken Randi's $1million prize. These concerned me hypnotising my mother and under hypnosis she was highly clairvoyant. Unfortunately, under Randis skeptical gaze I have no doubt that these psychic abilities would evaporate. For this reason randi will never get his proof.

Aside from this, there are MAJOR problems with Randi's challenge, not the least of which is that Randi claims the right to decide whether you were succesful or not, and you sign away all legal redress if you disagree with him. You have no claims for defamation etc. Even if you succeed outrageously well, he has the right to make you repeat the experiment until you fail, at which point he will just say "ha! can't do it reliebaly then - I win!". I'lll dig out a few critiques of randi I have seen on the internet.

I have seen randi in operation, claiming that he can do "cold reading" and also duplicate other "psychic" feats, like spoon bending, but his performances have been laughable. He really is a third-rate magician. He appeared on a UK documentary debunking ESP, and performed "cold reading". His first attempt was so poor that it was cut out when the show finally aired. Instead they allowed him to repeat his "cold reading" and only showed the bits where it looked passable.

In my opinion, Randi's $1million prize is safe, not because ESP doesn't exist (it does), but because the test conditons he insists on are unfair by any measure of scientific rigour. I also totally mistrust him to be fair in any ESP evaluation.

catmeow · February 26, 2007, 06:43:36

Oh, by the way, this site lists many many OBE's, some of these claiming quite interesting validations:

http://www.oberf.org/

They are all anecdotal of course which means they have no scientific value whatsoever, but then so is evidence presented in court, which is considered sufficiently reliable in some cases to pass a death sentance.

kiwibonga · February 26, 2007, 11:27:59

Quote from: DarkIntellect on February 25, 2007, 23:59:57
It has? Sorry.....

Yeah

avocado · February 26, 2007, 13:42:45

I don't see any problem with the same topics comming up over and over again. Because, with them, new people join the forums, and new ideas are shared as well.

Just as a discussion on American politics would change every few months or so, I guarantee not one of those is exactly alike.

Athelstone · February 26, 2007, 19:16:20

Assiduous skeptics invariably demand 100 percent from everyone; except themselves.

"Who looks outside dreams. Who looks within awakens".

http://www.alternativescience.com/james-randi.htm

Mydral · February 27, 2007, 02:42:44

I know people which can do things... I live in the Philippines and my parents met someone who could "read" their sicknesses just by looking at them (100% correct) and tell them what to do to get rid of them. She gets possesed by a young girls spirit when it happens, (western diagnosis would probably say she is a skizo).

Someone else I heard of can apperantly bend metal etc. when he changes his brainwaves through meditation or so.

The thing is that there will probably be a catch with the 1 million dollars.

avocado · February 27, 2007, 03:23:33

Yeah, it is probably a million yen.

catmeow · February 27, 2007, 05:06:52

The catch is he will never pay up even if you make him levitate out of one 6th floor window and back in through another...

iNNERvOYAGER · February 27, 2007, 06:52:58

Does this piece of philosophy apply?

ref:
The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002. (http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/donotcastyou.html)

"Do not cast your pearls before swine"

Do not waste good things on people who will not appreciate them. This proverb is adapted from a saying of Jesus from the Gospels, "Cast not pearls before swine." Jesus appears to be warning his disciples to preach only before receptive audiences.

catmeow · February 27, 2007, 14:02:02

"Do not cast your pearls before swine"

Like it.....

catmeow · February 27, 2007, 19:27:46

Quote from: Athelstone
Assiduous skeptics invariably demand 100 percent from everyone; except themselves.

"Who looks outside dreams. Who looks within awakens".

http://www.alternativescience.com/james-randi.htm

Excellent critique. Debunks Randi for the fraud he really is.

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1 million dollar paranormal challenge

iNNERvOYAGER