21 grams & OBE

[Dilmun]

There is this movie "21 grams" where was something about that when someone dies he/she loses weight 21 grams. I don't actually know for sure what is known about it or is it even real thing and not just in the movie thought it sounded realistic and not made up. So i wonder if there is any research about that does a person lose 21 grams when doing OBE =)

[Hans Solo]

My experiences so far confirm Franks theory that there is no "Out of Body" and it is all an inward process.  So, I don't think there would be any correlation.

The traditional theory of the "astral body" leaving the physical body would assume that the physical body is 21 grams lighter during sleep than during waking consciousness.   As far as I know, this is not the case.  Although, you are lighter in the morning because not as much food or water is in you as through out the day.

han

[Dilmun]

hans solo sure i know that but with my knowledge of OBE i can only ask why couldnt it be your soul too when doing OBE and you are "connected" to your physical body with silver cord anyway so...

[greatoutdoors]

Runlola, good job on your research! My only question about that experiment is how precise the measurements could really be at that time. Even in the late 60's it was incredibly hard to get an accurate measure of small weights. I know -- I was a lab technician back then and had to precisely weigh very small things. We even had to put them in closed boxes to keep air currents from messing with the weight reading. I can't accept MacDougall's claim as to the precision of his instruments.

However, today we have the ability to weigh things very accurately, plus hospital beds that give digital readouts of a person's weight (I'm not sure how close the tolerance is on these.) Add to that the fact that many facilities are set up to do sleep studies and we have the groundwork for a modern day experiment.

I tend to agree with Han, though, and would bet the experiment would show no results. Does electricity have weight? How about magnetism or the force of gravity? I believe our soul, if such there be, is composed of energy similar to those, and therefore, won't weigh anything. I do believe it dissipates when we die, but where it goes I do not know.

[no_leaf_clover]

My only question about that experiment is how precise the measurements could really be at that time. Even in the late 60's it was incredibly hard to get an accurate measure of small weights.

Inspiration and expiration of air as forcibly as possible by me had no effect upon the beam.

It's certainly how it seems, because air does have weight. There's also gas coming from the other end, too, lol.

[catmeow]

The traditional view is that we have a "semi-physical" or "gaseous" double which is composed of physical matter of a very subtle nature. This is dubbed the "etheric double".  It plays a part in animating the physical body and is not generally a vehicle of consciousness, so it is not normally used during astral projection.  When this ultra-gaseous double evacuates the physical body we die physically.  Sometimes, during astral projection, some "etheric" matter comes out of the physical body and mixes in with the astral body.  This has the effect of dullling consciousness.  It is not possible for etheric matter to move far from the physical body, without harming it, so as we move away from our sleeping body during AP the etheric matter returns to the physical body and our astral senses improve, mind sharpens, vision improves etc.  It is the "etheric double" which perhaps has a measurable weight of 3/4 ounce.  That's the theory anyway...   The theory was taught by the Theosophical movement slightly over a 100 years ago, and was popularised in the books of Robert Crookall (eg The Study And Practice of Astral Projection), although this general belief goes back thousands of years.

catmeow

[Astral Practitioner]

I think non physical energy is weightless since it is non physical and not connected with physical laws. I don't think it is because the etheric body departs from the corpse this causing weight loss. It has to do something with the dieing process that causes 21 grams lighter. But in a way spirtual energy does have a relationship- interaction with the physical world.

[Veccolo]

I too thought that it is the exhaled air which makes the body lighter after death, now I know that it's not the air. At least not only air.

One liter of air weighs about 1 gram. The lung of an average human has a capacity of somewhat 5 liters. That means the maximum weight of the air inside the lung of the dying body can only be around 5 grams. Probably less, as some of the oxygen goes into the blood.

So we have over 16 grams of "mysterious" weight loss.

[catmeow]

I don't believe that in natural death, there is a final expiration of several litres of air.  A dying peron's breathing will become shallower and shallower until they finally succumb, barely exhaling at all.  It's nonsense to suggest that any weight loss is due to one last gasp...!  But I also have to be a little incredulous at the thought of anyone accurately measuring any such change in weight!

catmeow.