can you try too much?

[MJ-12]

gr

[Frank]

I suppose it depends to a high degree on what you are trying and how. Astral Dynamics contains all manner of techniques for doing all kinds of energy-work, and so forth.

Successful conscious-exit projection relies on being able to bring yourself to the point where your sense of conscious awareness is focused on a particular place in your mind: which then triggers the projection-reflex.

The thought occurs to me that if you are spending hours having your mind flitting here and there, trying all kinds of things, then that isn't going to be of help.

But spending two hours a day (say) quietly relaxing, steadily teaching yourself to focus your thoughts and practising allowing your focal point of awareness to rise to that certain place in your mind which triggers the projection reflex. Such would be very beneficial.

Yours,
Frank

[jilola]

Some sort of structure seems to be necessary even for AP practise. You have to maintain concentration and trying every which thing doesn't help you to develop and maintain the necessarty levels of concentration.
I used to do everything as well and for some time things progressed pretty well. Bu then hit a wall that I'm still trying to get around. The exercises stoppped working, all of them.
So my solution is to do relaxation and still mind and nothing else for a while just to get back to a cencentrated state of mind in regard to the goal.
And something's beginning to happen again so maybe I'm the right track again.

2cents

jouni

[Nerezza]

My first obe came after I ended training for them. During that week I had 4 lucid dreams(I never had them before) and I projected during one of them.

Try taking time off as MJ-12 suggested, you never know what might happen.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken:
The crownless again shall be king.

[Shayde]

Some times it is best to let things happen, instead of trying to force them to happen. (which you may be doing by trying to hard.)



To many stars, not enough sky.

[James S]

Though I've not yet successfully projected, I've managed to progress in little steps towards that goal.

I tended to get frustrated because I just couldn't get there.

I learned focussing & concentration is my problem, just as Frank and Jouni pointed out. I build up a big dose of energy, start concentrating on my brow chakra, then totally irrelevant dream like images creep in and my concentration goes west. My particular issue is learning to reduce the almost constant images and babble in my mind and learn really keep it still for decent periods of time. This is a daily excercise for me and something that I need to be a lot more diciplined in.

Taking a break form the effort of actually trying to project can help especially if you find yourself getting frustrated. that becomes really counterproductive.
Perhaps just keep up with daily energy raising and concentration exercises.

Would I be right in saying these excercises need to kind of become second nature?

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[jilola]

At least for me the surface mind is getting easier to calm down. It's almost like my sobconscious is becoming a bit more co-operative.
I think that when you do the exercises with *intent* like Frank's been pointing out in several of his posts our selves learn to spot the cue the it's time to go quiet and focus on the projecting bit. It's like training as puppy. Be consistent, firm and enjoy any little progress.
Oh, and the absolute worst thing to do is to think you've failed if you don'¨t manage to project. It's not about succeeding  or failing. It's about learning about ourselves.

2cents

jouni

[Frank]

Oh, another thing you should always do is ask for help. Anything you don't understand you must ask about at the time.

For example, if things are unclear, then ask for more clarity until they become clear to you. Or if things are dark and gloomy then ask for more light, until you can see. Or if your surface mind is difficult to calm down, as in your case Jouni, then ask for assistance so as to make it easy for you, etc., etc.

Realise, there are SO MANY astral entities who are only too willing to give you a helping hand. And, as I said on the other thread, they are a whole lot closer to us than I think people realise.

Yours,
Frank

[James S]

Frank,

quote:Realise, there are SO MANY astral entities who are only too willing to give you a helping hand. And, as I said on the other thread, they are a whole lot closer to us than I think people realise.

Would you be able to expand a bit on the help of the entities?

I am currently experiencing quite frequent visions and almost daily interactions by way of thoughts, strong feelings and guidance from one particular entitiy. So much so that I tend  to question if it is that entity or my imagination. I tend to lean to the former, mainly because of the "feelings" aspect - a definite sense of the entitie's (focussed) presence, but I have no  basis for comparison.  

The visions I cannot doubt, but the rest I tend to be a bit unsure of. Your comment made me think that you may have undoubtable experiences here that could help solidify my faith in these interactions and provide me with something of a baseline reference.



James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[General-Army]

I try to astral project, but does your whole body have to be asleep? Or can you just start making a floating feeling as soon as you lay down? How long can you normaly project? Once my whole body felt tingly and numb, was that anything? I usauly feel very heavy and i feel vibrations when i do it also, but i never got out of my body.

Every man has their fear of dieing, whether it be of pain or not knowing where you are going, however, mine is the family, memories, and good times i leave behind.

[Frank]

James, I have a regular guide I nicknamed Harry. He once told me that guides have a very hard time trying to help earth-bound spirits. The core problem was acceptance.

They'd give them a little mental push (thus causing the person to have a little more clarity) and, rather than accepting the new information and building on it and moving on, first thing the person does is doubt.

The source of the doubt, more often than not, is the person cannot decide whether the info they received was from the Astral or their own imagination.

Problem is, the Astral is very much closer than people realise. The Astral actually begins right on the border of your imagination. So please think of your imagination not as just some place in your mind; but think of it as a conical channel that runs from your point of everyday consciousness (the widest end) all the way through to the beginning of the Astral.

A major stumbling block (even when you can clear your mind of all the mass of day-to-day thoughts) comes about due to the fact that anything coming through this channel has to pass through your critical faculty.

That's why belief plays a very important roll.

What you basically believe, determines what you accept or reject at the critical-faculty stage. Or, you can have situations where one aspect of your critical faculty says throw it out, and another aspect is thinking maybe we should keep it. So you begin to doubt and ask yourself typical questions, such as, is this real or just my imagination?

The instant answer would be to simply, utterly and unconditionally accept the reality of the Astral and all that goes with it. But this would be near impossible to do. The solution is to accept it in easy to assimilate chunks.

There is only so much Astral reality a typical beginner can *unconditionally* take on board at any one time. Which is why, I say, what you should do is communicate with those that are helping you and ask for a little more clarity each time.

When you get it, try and avoid being critical in any way, or doubting what you have received. It sounds easy when you say it, but complete acceptance is a very tricky mental balancing act to perform. Simply because, on the Physical, we are SO darned used to doing the opposite.

I found the best most productive state of mind is to maintain an air of mild curiosity. Which holds true for both Physical and Astral.

Yours,
Frank

[James S]

Your guide sure has it right. Look at things as if through the eyes of a child, as they have not yet been taught to doubt.

Thanks for ideas on this Frank. I had read you're comments relating to this idea in the other post (cant remember the post, but remember the concept). You're extra comments here tie in with it nicely.

To tie this conversation in with something a little closer to the topic at hand, I attemted a projection today after a reasonable period of meditating and energy raising. The bad news is I didn't get there (close, but still no cigar). I found that, as the theme of this post goes, I was trying too hard, and just wasn't quite ready for it yet. Still...small steps. Relax & keep trying, it isn't a race.

The good new is the time spent today meditating helped me to better know the entitiy who has captured my attention and helped rewrite my entire belief system. (I wonder if she minds being referred to as "the entity" like that?). You're right though about the Astral spirits being only too willing to help.

Do you find what your guide has to say to be a lot more umm...enlightened and encouraging that what your own everyday consciousness would produce?

You'd think I'd find the fact that such guidence and encouragement comes to me by way of a female voice to be a bit of a dead giveaway! Can't see the forest for the trees.

Thanks again for the info Frank. It's helped me make a lot more sense of the situation.



James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[Frank]

quote:
Do you find what your guide has to say to be a lot more umm...enlightened and encouraging that what your own everyday consciousness would produce?

Problem is, James, you get to the stage where you forget working any of it out all by yourself. It's *way* too confusing.

At first it was ever so difficult for me to trust the insights I was receiving. So I took them in, unconditionally, a tiny piece at a time. And the whole thing snowballed from there.

I think meeting Harry was a big turning point. Haven't met with him for a while because the focus of my development is changing.

He used to escort me through the lower regions and show me some of the more interesting cases. He also taught me all about emotions and the effects they have on the Astral and on people generally.

But I'm spending less and less time in the lower regions (novelty has worn off now).

Yours,
Frank

[Shayde]

I think I have tried asking for some thing once, and it actually worked. I didn't know the reason why it worked was because I asked, but now that it has been pointed out to me I know. (I asked to know the name of my spirit guide, and they answered back Keri. I got a really strong feeling from it, especially considering the spelling. I have not yet found out that if this entity is a spirit guide, or if they were just passing by when I asked, but I have the feeling that I will find out soon enough.)

I love how much insight I have gained from your posts Frank. Again Thank You.




To many stars, not enough sky.

[fredhedd]

i have  plenty of time on my hands most of the day to do what i please. i believe i m very close to projecting and have been trying every day for hours for the past couple weeks. i read astral dynamics about four months ago and have been doing all of the excersizes. i'm wondering if it's possible that too much effort would be bad?