Using tools for OBE - for suckers?

[Birm]

Dear alt0xFF,

I totally agree with you on this subject. Newbies may try bwgen like software or novadreamer like tool to get used to the trance, astral senses, being lucid and vibration states.

I personally tried bwgen for a while and it helped me having a deeper trance. But i dont use it right now. Because i dont need it anymore.

The key to fully concious OBE is to get used to the feelings and sensations of it. And as you mentioned:

WHATEVER WORKS, WORKS.
.
.

[clandestino]

Best post I've read in ages !

No-one knows for sure why some people seem to have more success than others with OBE, but I'm positive that you've listed most of the reasons why the frequency of occurence differs from person to person.

As to using tools, I reckon there are several commonly held points of view here.

Some people believe that the use of various audio technology does nothing to aid OBE whatsoever, apart from the placebo effect. I would argue that, even if this is true, the use of audio technology is therefore indirectly enhancing your chances of having an OBE.

Others argue that using audio technology is somehow creating a "crutch" or dependency....e.g You get to a point where you NEED to use the CD / whatever in prescribed conditions to achieve an OBE. Robert Bruce discourages artificial aids to OBE in his book Astral Dynamics. He says that an individual who becomes dependent on using audio aids may never have the ability to have an OBE whilst e.g. listening to waves crashing over rocks, or being subjected to other distractions. This may be correct, but can also be countered :

1) R Bruce may be an individual with a much higher propensity to OBE than is normal.

2) It is possible to learn controlled OBE using audio technology as an aid, and then gradually "go it alone" as per Frank's posts on his experiences with hemi-sync. Furthermore he stated on many occasions that he believes himself to be a person with no special abilities, all his OBE's were gained through many hours of hard work.

Anyway my experiences with hemi-sync have led me to believe that using audio technology definitely helps.
kind regards

Mark

[alt0xFF]

The fact that binaural technology is not a placebo is scientifically proven. Perceptually similar effect can be achieved by modulation, and if you give one group of people binaural signal, and the other one a modulated one, they will hear the same thing, but the EEGs will show the difference.

Speaking of dependency on that thing. If you provide an audible binaural signal, the brain has no problem modulating it. The signal, in a sense, FORCES the brain into synchronization. However, if you provide a masked signal just above the hearing threshold, you will hear that the modulated signal is irregular and sporratic - the brain works hard on trying to construct the modulated signal. So the masked signal, in a sense, GUIDES the brain into synchronization. So in the first case you might become dependent on the signal, while in the second case your brain will learn to synchronize by itself. That is why I stay wary of audible unmasked binaural signals, even though the immediate effect is more apparent (as reported by some BWG users). Note however, that the above paragraph is my speculation - I'm by no means an expert, just good at theorizing []

[alt0xFF]

Quote from the nearby post:
"Last night I came clostest as I have ever been to a projection and it was without the use of any audio files, it was out of pure concentration and will power, which is the best way to project."

In some posts I sometimes see people having an implicit opinion that using external tools in achieving OBE is "for suckers", and the true hardcore OBEers do it by hard work and pure willpower.

However, I would like to emphacize that even though these factors are detrimental for any task, sometimes it may not be enough.

1. Some people have very thin hypnagogic band, so it is more difficult for them to balance on it without falling asleep, while others have no problem in remaining in that state.

2. Various people may have various "vibrational thresholds", meaning one person may have to go deeper than another to reach the vibrational state.

3. Various people have different degrees of muscle tonus; so if both of them "relax", their absolute degrees of relaxation may differ drastically. Thus, one person may have to spend more time learning techniques to counteract the tonus and increase the physical relaxation to acceptable level.

4. Various people may have different degrees of conscious control over their brain frequencies,  so if one can quickly achieve trance without using any tools, another may need some external help for that.

5. Various people may have different conditions of their energy bodies. One may have a naturally tuned EB with chakras working like Swiss watches, while the other may have undeveloped chakras and clogged up energy pathways, which would require extra work with energy raising to take care of that.

6. etc.

Considering the factors above, one person may OBE after several half-assed attempts, while the other may have little results despite a year of daily excercizes. Thats why I think that any tools or methods that may help are acceptable. As they often say in shooting sports - "use whatever works for YOU". Our case is similar. If you are able to achieve altered states of consciousness with no problems - good for you; but don't look down on those who have no natural ability, and have to stick with "whatever works".