I was just sitting around thinking and something dawned on me...
Ethereal Traveler ,
I've been involved with projecting for almost 20 years now. When I first started it was more like a fun game, explore, be invisible to the physical world. After, I slowly realized thru time and age that its A LOT more then just having fun.
From OBE's, I've became a volunteer at the Hospice of Michigan helping terminally ill people. OBE's definitely change your life and prior thoughts. I've been able to validate my experiences, statistically track my achievements, goals, stopp'd drinking, developed a closer relationship to God, Christ. Also, my wife and I are waiting for our referral from China to adopt.
Definitely became more spiritual and turned more towards loving people then being in judgement. Its easier to hate and harder to love - this is what OBE's have done for me.
Not to mention being blessed by an angel, meeting up with my grandma, and uncle... shall I say anymore?
Your more then welcome to visit my web site www.invisiblelight.us and review my 20 years of material presented.
Tvos
Quote from: the voice of silence on October 09, 2006, 13:20:01
I've been able to validate my experiences, statistically track my achievements, goals, stopp'd drinking, developed a closer relationship to God, Christ.
Hey there the voice of silence, just out of curiosity are you saying you became more of a christian after projecting? I don't think I have ever heard of anyone who is into the new age and/or projecting thing validate that christ is god and so forth. Or are you referring to a "christ consciousness"? Please expand.
SilverSlider,
Yes, I've developed a closer, faithful relationship to God and Christ through astral projecting. New Age, what ever you call it, OBE's have been around for millions of years, unfornuately astral projection is a cast out with religions but in our today's world, we call it new age.
The important thing to seriously consider is 'how' you walk the path. Do you project for evil, power, some sort of hidden power? Or do you project because of spirituality, love, helping the world in this physical plane or in the other plane levels.
Everyone has their own path and if it wasn't for OBE's I probally would have been treading a dark path in my earlier to late years.
A month ago, I had an incredible honor and experience where I was assisted two times by a Angel of God to travel into the higher astral and mental planes through guidence. So "yes' by my many experiences in the past, there is a higher supreme power that I've discovered and we call this power "God".
Hope this helps!
Tvos
Hmm interesting on the help with angels, that must have been a neat experience.
I agree with most of what you said, what I am wondering is why you keep linking God and Christ as in you have a strong Christian faith. Like I said I agree with most of what you said, including it doesn't matter what path you take only how you go about that path. It just seems like when people have mystical experiences, astral projection or have strong drug related experiences - altered consciousness - basically when people experience "the source" they no longer subscribe to a strict religous schedule that requires certain steps or certain intermediaries.
I applaud you if you have actually integrated projection with Christianity. I read in a book by the Dalai Lama that he believes strongly that no matter what faith you have, just stick with that one and practice it, instead of taking parts of different religions. I agree almost whole-heartedly. Even though I do take parts from different religions I find a centralization on a certain one (for me it happens to be Buddhism) helps me keep focused on my spiritual path. Ya need roots! heh or something...I don't even know if what I just said is true, but it seems valid from what I've experienced.
Sorry to derail this thread guys! Curiosity hit me hard on this one. And thanks tvos for explaining :)
brad
Wow... I was going to respond to this thread.. had most of it wrote out and then decided...no. Hmmm.
Why......
You dont need ot be a chrisitan to learn what jesus said, nor do you have to be a buddhist to learn what the buddha realise that you truely are the source and wake up to spread love on a world much needed of it.
To answer the original thread:
I don't think it's that obvious what projecting leads to, early on. I spent about a year, just exploring for exploring's sake. Perhaps, occasionally I would look to ask questions to guides, or maybe I would try to look for friends and family that had crossed over.
Then, I discovered, thanks to the writings of Bruce Moen, all the really cool things you could out There - including helping the recently deceased move to higher vibration planes (aka retrievals) For the last few years, I've really been into helping out with retrievals.
In the last year or so, I've been pushing myself beyond the astral to the next higher plane sometimes referred to as the mental plane. Here, there are lots of knowledgeable people, and the experiences are very enjoyable.
I am concerned that someday I might become bored of this "hobby" But, I haven't yet. As long there new things to discover...
-mike
SilverSlider,
The experience with contacting an Angel was something beyound words.
It was a very emotional and touching experience that definitely left a good mark!
This was the first time full contact with an Angel during the OBE. I've seen some incredible things in the last 20years, but this definitely with out saying was beautiful!
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=24512.0
and
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=24611.0
Mostly, of what I've experienced brought me closer to God/Christ just in the last 3-4years. As before in the past I was not as close. I do agree with you that many people who have these specific experiences look differently on religion that alters their belief systems.
I do believe that there is that 'one' source that lives,breaths that flows and vibrates through us and that we are all connected to God. To other religions, beliefs it can be the great eagle in the sky, or budah, alah etc.
If you read the bible, there are so many passages in there that talk about OBE's, trance state, precognitive events, etc and that is very interesting how it relates to moden times. Also, check out the NDE (near death experiencers) - they have been changed and marked for life in a positive outlook towards death. Many actually turn strongly to religion, spirituality etc..
So in a nutshell, I'm a christian and also spiritualist..
tvos
I think when you first start its a bit like being a child again, as everything is new, and very exciting. Your free to do, and go wherever you want, pretty much at the speed of thought. I for one (in real life) love to fly, travel and explore. So I have done a lot of this when in the Astral world. When I'm out I'm so happy to be able to fly, so immediately I take off into the skies.
However, as you have done it more, get more experienced, and like maturing, and turning into an adult. I find that I search for knowledge, and understanding now. To try to see the bigger picture, and trust me, its BIG. :-) This is where I'm at now. I still love to get out, and fly, like a child with a new toy, but the novelty of it has begun to wear off slightly, and now I'm searching, learning, and trying to understand.
Good luck on your journey.
Virgin Astral,
I do agree and I've found that if I transcend into the higher astral / mental planes its a whole new ball game. Flying around is beautiful and enjoyable, but the one explores more they do come to realization is that its all about "Love" and helping others here and there.
Tvos
Yup, the astral is a great source of inspiration, if you're a musician, painter, writer, physicist, the amount of ideas that can outflow through experience is very vast.
For some time all I wanted to do was to reach the physical world through the astral. What I learned is that this is like swimming using a bicycle. Had some success searching for informations over there, confirmed things, few exactly what I had expected, you are always to be surprised.
Overall, it is an excellent place for experimentation/exploration, and if possible, live there too and enjoy your stay before you have to come back.
Quote from: TalaNay on October 09, 2006, 19:30:07
Wow... I was going to respond to this thread.. had most of it wrote out and then decided...no. Hmmm.
Why......
:lol: You just made my day Nay... YOU ROCK!
I did? Then why don't I have more karma points? :lol: I'm still confused as to why I changed my mind about it..LOL.. I sound goofy. I should have just stepped away without a comment.
Quote from: TalaNay on October 11, 2006, 12:51:16
I did? Then why don't I have more karma points? :lol: I'm still confused as to why I changed my mind about it..LOL.. I sound goofy. I should have just stepped away without a comment.
Wha?!!!
*loads smiteing hand of glory and whacks karma button*
<----- :evil:
LOL.. so did you smite or applaud me? :lol:
Well.... :evil: you do have 1 karma point now... ;)
Guys,
Please take a look at Group NDE Example #2 here (scroll down to Example #2):
http://www.near-death.com/group.html (http://www.near-death.com/group.html)
In this experience, three people shared an NDE. All three had the same experience but it was presented to each of them in their own belief system terms. For instance they all saw a being of light except this was presented to one of them as an angel, to the second as his late father and to the third as the Buddha.
Not only did each person experience slightly different impressions, they each appear to have been aware of how each of the others was experiencing the whole thing. This seems to have been a deliberate part of the experience, by whoever/whatever was orchestrating it.
It seems that in the astral Truth and appearance are different things. So the truth may be "divine being" and whilst this is absolutely real, we all perceive the same truth according to our own culture or belief system (Christ, Buddha etc).
Quote from: shadow.pulsar on October 11, 2006, 15:25:31
Well.... :evil: you do have 1 karma point now... ;)
That was short lived. My fans must have dropped by.... :lol: It's becoming really silly now.. come on folks. It's only my opinions, no need to get all smitty. :-D
Catmeow: A belief system can either hinder or not, imo... That is why I think that the astral is very personal and when one tries to alter it to fit someone else's experience it ceases to work correctly.
Hi TalaNay
I posted the link because I thought it was quite instructive and shows that everything is not as it "appears" in the astral. To me it seems to show that people's perceptions are symbolic rather than literal in the astral, and that this is really the way it's meant to be. I find it interesting that several people can observe the same "thing" but actually each person sees it represented in a way which is most meaningful to them. They all get the same "message" but actually see different things.
I think you're correct to say that the astral is personal. But that doesn't mean it isn't real. Perhaps it's a bit like when we both see the colour "red". My experience of "red" might be completely different from your experience of "red" we have no way of knowing. So when two people see the same "being of light" each person has his/her own experience which is unique to them. But they both see the same real thing....
Catmeow,
I like your analogy on the color 'red' and what we both see. You are correct its personal experience, never a less if it wasn't real, we wouldn't be here talking about it..
tvos
Quote from: tvosnever a less if it wasn't real, we wouldn't be here talking about it
lol... :-)
Quote from: catmeowTo me it seems to show that people's perceptions are symbolic rather than literal in the astral, and that this is really the way it's meant to be.
Quote from: catmeowI think you're correct to say that the astral is personal.
These contradict each other. :)
You see, in the astral my experiences
are literal. Perhaps because that is what I need it to be and thus why it makes it personal. Now in just everyday dreams, I've found those are more symbolic...I have to really think and stress out trying to figure out..
omg..what did that mean, it felt fine but the symbol itself represents something negative... I think the dreams are "real", I don't think I said they weren't real. They are real on some level, ya know? I like to think I get a little something from it either at that time or years down the road when it pops into my head. But I'm also sure when I dream of driving a car that always inevitably turns into a skateboard or wheelbarrow is real but just not helpful spritually. :-D
I have said in the past and I'm sure in the future I will say that some people exaggerate their experiences. :-) That in itself does no good for all involved...one, the newbies to this subject now are under the impression that they have to have the same hollywood experience or it's not a true experience. Two, it keeps the person that is telling the exaggeration, in a fantasy that will only hold them in place not moving forward..IMO.
PS. I should add that I'm not directing this at anyone in paticular..so stop smitting me! :lol: I'm gonna change my name again..to YO-YO.. :-D
TalaNay
I think maybe I didn't express myself very well. By "literal" I mean undecorated, unembellished, untranslated, unmodified, etc. By "symbolic" I mean "transformed into terms which express underlying meaning rather than actual shape, size and form".
So when people perceive things in terms of symbols (rather than literal shape and form), they are seeing the world translated in a highly personal way. I suspect that this is how the astral works. People see things symbolically (different people see different symbols) rather than literally (different people literally see the same things). This makes the astral highly personal.
It's an old occult idea in fact. I remember J H Brennan saying something similar in his book "Astral Doorways"
http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Doorways-J-H-Brennan/dp/1870450213/sr=1-1/qid=1160668966 (http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Doorways-J-H-Brennan/dp/1870450213/sr=1-1/qid=1160668966)
Please forgive me...I sometimes have problems getting things to look right in my head and it keeps me confused until I straighten it out..bare with me.
So by symbolic you mean like a emotion or something, not an actual symbol? I've tried to stay away from any "occult" or superstitious books..especially old ones.. :-) It still feels like trying to pigeon hole someone experiences, IMO.
When you say you suspect this is how the astral works, does that mean you haven't had any personal experiences youself? I thought you had.
Quote from: SilverSlider on October 09, 2006, 15:15:09
Hey there the voice of silence, just out of curiosity are you saying you became more of a christian after projecting? I don't think I have ever heard of anyone who is into the new age and/or projecting thing validate that christ is god and so forth. Or are you referring to a "christ consciousness"? Please expand.
Ok I have read his response before I posted this but here is what I think to it.
What he describes as God, Christ, Angels others describe differently but its the same thing. New Age also believes in some sort of spirits, energy, etc. Thats also God, its also Allah, and whatever other things there are.
Afterall every APer will experience the same thing, its just how he perceives it. Did you notice how the Angels wings only appeared after he asked the Angel for them? That means that for a New Age believer or atheists that the beeing that they would have infront of them might just be pure light, but its still the same thing.
Hopefully you see where I am getting it.
Btw no offense to anyone with this, I know that some people are very touchy on this subject.
Firstly, it's just a theory, I don't know if it's true.
By symbolic I don't mean that we go round seeing symbols such as hieroglyphs. What I mean though is that several astral travellers might look at the same object, but each person might "see" something different. So in the group NDE experience I quoted from, one person saw a Buddha, another saw an angel and the third saw his late father. But they each got the same impression or "message" from what they saw. So in a sense they each experienced the same thing, although their visual experiences were different.
Personally, I can't say whether I have experienced this or not because It's very hard to tell! I do see things which vary from how they are in the physical world, and one interpretation of this is "reality fluctuations", but another is that I see the "meaning" of an object rather than its physical appearance. So another example would be that one person might see a wooden door, another a metal gate and a third might see an open archway! A weird concept I admit!
The only way to test this is to have a shared experience with someone and to compare notes. I did this once with my mother and our experiences tallied precisely, so on that occasion we perceived exactly the same things (in the astral). As far as I can tell, there was no symbology involved. That's why I'm tentative about it.
But it's an interesting theory, and it would explain why so many people see things in the RTZ which differ from physical reality, and it would explain why many NDE'rs appear to meet Jesus. They might not actually be meeting Jesus, rather they encounter a divine being which they interpret as Jesus.
I'm not sure if I've made myself any clearer, but my intention is just to share a few ideas and see what people think! :-)
Off-Topic:
Regarding the old occult traditions, a lot of this is baloney, but behind the baloney runs a vein of truth. So if you dig out J H Brennan's book you'll find some gems of information. He has a tecnique for astral travel called "building the body of light" which I haven't seen anywhere on these boards or in any literature other than western occult tradition. A guy called Ophiel describes the same technique in the "Art and Practice of Astral Projection". It's worth taking a look at these books if you have time:
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Practice-Astral-Projection-Ophiel/dp/0877282463/sr=1-2/qid=1160680532 (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Practice-Astral-Projection-Ophiel/dp/0877282463/sr=1-2/qid=1160680532)
Ah.. thank you for explaining that for me again! It basically boils down to our personal perceptions and beliefs. :)
No offense.. but I believe I'm done reading books on other people's experiences. Well, except for book like the ones Brian Weiss writes. I think sticking to my own theories and experiences is going to get me further down my path. I did way too much reading on what other people thought I needed to be experiencing to only have it mess up what I had... it was driving me nuts. I'm finally getting back what I had and I'm not about to mess that up again. :-D
No offense taken! lol :-)
I don't want to get too much into religion and belief systems but let's just say that during my first conscious experience of an OOBE that I was a christian fundamentalist and sincerely believed that everything had gone to shite.
Hrm, I'll be talking about this anyway. I've had a vision of Christ standing on top of a mountain whilst smiling and waving down to me and I've had a vision of flying into the eye of Buddha although it took some time to figure out what that one meant.
The reason I'm still interested in astral experiences is because when I don't have them for a long period of time I begin to doubt myself. After I have another RTZ OOBE though, my validation is solid for about another 3-4 months. I live in London and it's not the most open-minded of places, the newspapers and their editors stink like crap and the people are persuaded to think differently due to what they see on TV and read in the papers. I can only talk about new age concepts with my brother or with others online. It's very important you choose your friends carefully concerning this, if they aren't affirming what you know to be true then try to minimize your contact with them as self-doubt only causes harm.
The reason I project consciously is so I can get out of my ego, it's as simple as that for me.
Regarding angelic presence, yes, I believe it to be an awesome experience too but I don't associate them with christianity any longer, I find that severely limiting. I tried reading "A Course in Miracles" recently and the christian dogmatism killed it for me utterly. I actually hold spite towards that book now.
I believe Christ to be as fine an entity as the best of them but I do NOT associate "him" with angels with wings, big books, crosses, religion, media, being a hippie, doing charity work 24/7, having a physical body at this time, being a space alien etc... It's because of these ideas that I've actually moved away from anything but my own experiences regarding the matter.
Quote from: Zante on October 14, 2006, 08:39:46
The reason I project consciously is so I can get out of my ego, it's as simple as that for me.
Sorry, I don't mean to derail your post, but I am curious as to what you mean by the above stated?
Thanks.
Quote from: Virgin Astral on October 14, 2006, 08:56:12
Sorry, I don't mean to derail your post, but I am curious as to what you mean by the above stated?
Thanks.
When I'm OOB I don't have other people to worry about, I don't have to work within their perception of what is appropriate. I can actually "create" "ideal" people, I can make everything resonate. The more I experience this freedom, the more of it I bring back to my physical life.
I am highly impressionable and I have a bad habit of trying to maintain a certain image when I'm with other people. I get a chance to see things for what they are when I'm "out" and let's just say that the harshest judge of your own character is yourself. My ego has gotten me into a lot of emotional trauma. Some of the things I wanted in my life I was actually ashamed of, I believed my very existence was a sin.
While it's difficult/impossible to get rid of the ego completely (I don't want to try and do that either, it sounds boring to me), there're elements which make the process of becoming self-aware rather more painful than it ought to be.
"So I can get out of my ego", was a terrible way of describing it, sorry. It has more to do with freeing myself from old ego-based perceptions so I can create new ones. :p
Yeah Zanta, i totally understand where your coming from. I too struggle with my ego big time. I'm always trying to maintain the perfect image.
But I've learned our ego plays a big part in who we are. And our job is not to eliminate it, but to manage it. As hard as it can be sometimes
Well im not religious and I dont consider myself 'new age' either.
My life goes on as normal, I love football, to go out and have a few quiet beers with friends, play pool, go to the cinema, spend time with my wife and dogs, all the regular things. The projection side of things is a strange internal part.
For someone whos not religious I have a very close relationship with 'it'. That it being whatever there is larger than all of us as I do think theres something thats for sure, sometimes I use the word 'karma' othertimes 'fate' maybe sometimes 'destiny' or even 'gaia'. Its not something I talk about much with people, its just inside.
I feel oddly connected to something larger, maybe even 'preserved' or 'guided' wouldnt be too strong a word. Ive no idea why or where or what, its just soemthing that has grown inside me. I grew up without the slightest inclination of religion, but as I got older somehow a sense of being connected in some way to something else just grew on me.
At first it was a little hard for me, I used to question my thoughts and actions, are they good, are they bad, but over time ive grown beyond that. I sort of developed a faith that whatever im connected too doesnt understand the world in simple terms, my little bad thoughts or little bad and good actions are really non consequential, whats important is the development of my 'soul'.
I use the word 'soul' very lightly, just as a concept to cover the part of me im referring to. The inner part, the part that defines right and wrong, that senses what to do and not to do in the world. My sense of things tells me thats the part thats important somehow, its shape and development not the steps along the way.
This is why I dont talk about it because I cant really define it without sounding odd. If you met me you would see just an everyday person getting along with life, no interest in god or church or chants of peace and love, and yet inside I cant shape the sense that im in some untangible way directly connected to something more. My projection began as fun, the wonder of going to impossible places and seeing impossible things and feeling like you were actually right there on the spot was amazing. As ive grown I suppose each time now I hope to get closer to something, to learn something, maybe to find out what im connected to and why.
I retain a logical brain which instructs me that maybe just having these wonderful episodes made me a little giddy and brought about this inner sense of connection to some imaginary thing. No matter how loud my logic speaks, theres a little inaudible voice in my mind telling me that I know the truth and no matter how much I deny that, I am connected and fixed into something else.
Really I cant say I know anything for sure regarding how I really feel or believe about this matter, its my own silent conflict and I dont feel tired or bothered at all by it. One way or another I know it will be just fine at the end of the day whether im connected or not connected things will be as they will be, and I just need to keep on going with life and listening to my inner senses to know right from wrong.
Whether due to some larger connection or jsut a fact of life, ive learned that the answers to most questions you ask in life are already there. Ive many times cursed this perceived 'entity' for some misfortune and asked why, and even as i do it my own mind is processing the answer to the questions like I alrerady knew so why ask. Odd and as of this moment in time whether my own ignorance clouds answers that are already there or if the answers are a part of being connected to something else. I know im not going to beat myself up mentally about the reality either. Im sure of one thing, if I am connected to something larger then that larger entity understands my doubts questions and fears better than I ever will, so ive nothing to explain or feel guilty about.
As I read this back I see how complicated a thing it seems, yet its odd how it all seems so simple for me and never complicates my life?
The truth is if you have one OOBE, never mind many, it will effect you in some deeper way. How can not? If you were lifted one night to stand in some ancient wonderous place, away from everything you know and understand and beyond anything you believed possible, how could you wake and not be affected by it?
Whats beyond projecting I imagine will always be a search for truth and answers, maybe without any resolutions, but a pleasurable experience none the less and one you wont regret I doubt.