Am I astral projecting or just in a deep meditative state?

[threemoons]

I started meditating just a few weeks ago and took to it like a duck to water. I'm also very interested in astral projection and have been delving into it for about three weeks now. I go into a very deep meditative state really easily and after about 20-30 minutes, I start to feel really strong tingling in my fingers and toes and my mind just seems to float away from my body.

I see amazing things - lots of different coloured shapes pulsing and moving rythmically, a bright white light that I seem to get closer and closer to, I get the sensation I'm flying over forests and through space with the stars whizzing past me. I get occasional glimses of towns and huge cathedral-like buildings and sometimes faces appear. Throughout I feel blissfully happy and just consumed with love and sometimes I cry.

It's a wondrous experience but I don't know if I'm actually out of my body or whether I'm just meditating really deeply and am in a trance of some sort. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

[Lighten]

Sounds like your looking into the astral but not actually going OBE. That's just what it sounds like. But then again if you feel your 'mind' FLOAT away from your body, I don't know. Maybe a mental projection?

[Astral316]

It sounds like hypnogogic imagery. Do you actually see the forests/space as you fly? Also, do you experience the vibrations beforehand? If so, you were probably OBE.

[threemoons]

Thanks for you input. Yes I do see the forests etc and feel the vibrations beforehand. Last night
the vibrations were stronger than ever and I felt what I can only describe as strong tugging movements
in my arms and legs but I was paralysed. At one stage, it seemed as if my  head was going to kind of
"explode". Maybe I'm just getting to the point prior to leaving my body and if I keep practising, it will
happen.

How many of you actually leave your body and then see your sleeping body within a room? And what
about willing yourself somewhere, either real or imagined, and finding yourself there? It's great to have
found this board as this is a new thing for me but one which has changed my life already and will have
a profound effect on how I live. I'm not just doing it for the fun of it (although it is probably the most
exciting thing I've ever experienced) but also to find answers and to deepen my spirituality. I'd also be
interested to know at what age people started astral projecting: I came to it rather late (I'm 51!) but
have always had a very vivid imagintation and lucid dreams etc. I'm encouraging my daughter of 9 to meditate (not talking about AP yet because maybe she's too young) and it gives her a calm space when she needs it.

[EscapeVelocity]

threemoons,

welcome to the forum! Your description of your experiences indicate a good number of "pre-exit" symptoms. The trick is recognising which one's to pay attention to and follow, and which one's to ignore; all the while not getting too excited by the overall experience, thus short-circuiting the process.

My best advice, first, would be to suggest that you research this site as far back as possible, and work your way forward, say, starting with Permanent Astral Topics and then this section (Discussions), paying particular attention to Posters such as Frank, Ginny, Adrian, Upstream, James, CFT, TVOS and many others (with apologies to anyone I'm forgetting ). Actually, everyone's comments are instructive to the difficult process of interpretation of what we are dealing with...there are no instruments or gauges that we take with us, it's all subject to our interpretations/current belief systems...but most Posters add small but nonetheless significant pieces to the overall "Grand Picture", some which you may recognise in your current experience, some maybe not until later. Keep a journal; you'll find it a good resource later.

At some point, you need to tackle the Frank Kepple Phasing Resource...it's invaluable.

Also, do a search on the "3D Blackness"; that's the next step beyond the hypnogogic imagery that you seem to be encountering. Great stuff and good, quick progress on your part.

I say this as a slightly younger contemporary (47). I have been meditating on and off, trying for OBE's for 30 plus years with only sporadic, accidental success...that is until discovering the sheer wealth of info on sites such as this one.

Also, check out MABA (MindAwakeBodyAsleep) and WBTB (WakeBackToBed).

Just some thoughts to get you started; only about 50 hours of research.

Enjoy, have fun and see you out there. EV

[threemoons]

Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed advice EV. I certainly will start some serious research to help me progress.  May I ask how often you meditate and how often you project successfully? Currently I'm just trying to really enjoy the pre-exit state as you describe it, letting the visuals come and go and relishing the incredible sense of inner peace that goes with it and stays with me afterward.

I'm also interested in how many people find AP a spiritual experience and how many approach it purely as a way to "get out of your head" as it were. As someone who has always welcomed ways to alter consciousness (mind-altering drugs included) but who is also deeply spiritual, I would like to think that it offers the potential to in some way  connect with the spirit world and a higher power, whatever that may be.

[T.L.]

"How many of you actually leave your body and then see your sleeping body within a room?"

I have and do.

[EscapeVelocity]

threemoons, I don't meditate in the traditional sense but very rarely these days; a great practice, no doubt, but being an impatient voyager, I pursue certain aids or alternate methods. I have used, over the last couple years, the Monroe Gateway cd's and currently a Tibetan Chakra meditation cd.

All the above is good stuff and is, no doubt, helpful and maybe necessary preparatory work, but for me, my best results have come from the WBTB method, where I wake up in the middle of the night and then settle back to observe the hypnogogics, and transform them into something that i can "step into". What I step into can range from a Dream to an Etheric/RTZ OBE, to a Phasing OBE.

How often? Well, that depends on my level of Intent. If I'm serious, and apply myself daily, then maybe twice a week, depending on other factors. With daily living, work and lots of stress...I can go for months with nothing. With that said, it's so dependent on the individual and how much effort you want to put into it.

As to whether AP is real or not, it's either real or a hell of a complex hallucination that defies any scientific explanation, and I mean not even close! When you find yourself "out", you'll know it beyond doubt. Hah!, as far as premeditated hallucinations/dream fantasies go, I've spent far more time visualising myself frolicking with the ladies at the Playboy Mansion...and sadly, never been able to manifest that "reality" like I have my other OBE adventures  . Proof enough for me!

As to "seeing your sleeping body", even that's not so simple as it may seem. The first few times I did notice a "body" in my bed; but when I specifically looked for my body, there was only an empty "space" where my body should have been. The next time, I tried to look at my body but found I could not turn my head towards my body except with the utmost difficulty...I can only surmise that somehow, subconsciously, I was unwilling to deal with the fact of seeing my "separate" body.

All very fascinating stuff. Does it point towards Spirituality and an evolving Afterlife; I haven't verified that for myself but it sure seems to point that way in big NEON letters; so I'll keep searching...

Onward, EV.

[threemoons]

Yes, the work, daily living and stress does affect one's ability doesn't it! Didn't really get anywhere last night because I'd had a helluva day at work and then came home to a child who was under the weather.  I had a nice time just enjoying the hypnagogics for a while but then fell asleep. Also I'd had
a couple of large glasses of wine and I know I don't meditate as well as when I'm stone cold sober.

From what you say EV and the general opinion amongst APers, Robert Munroe seems the best place to start.  Is there one particular book/CD of his which you'd recommend to a beginner? I'm also finding that since I started my bed-time activities (!), I'm falling asleep really quickly after I come back from the hypnagogic state and then having very complex dreams every single night. And then I wake around 5.30am and can't get back to sleep so I'll write in my journal or listen to something ambient on my iPod.

My sleep patterns before I started meditating, tended to be not being able to switch my brain off for ages after going to bed and thinking about all the crap of the day and then falling asleep but maybe waking a couple of times during the night. So at least now the meditation seems to be enabling me to fall asleep when I want to. Trouble is I don't start till around 10.30pm and can easily slip into hypnagogia and stay there for a good two hours so don't get to sleep until 1am. And that's not enough sleep for me so end up feeling knackered at work the next day! So maybe retiring to my room at 9.30pm would be a good idea - it's a good job my boyfriend doesn't live with me right now as pursuing this interest would be impossible. He's interested in learning about it though. I wonder how APers with live-in partners who aren't APers themselves incorporate it into their daily lives; must be difficult!

[EscapeVelocity]

I'm prone to do the 'wine thing' too much and honestly, that's the singular thing that slows my progress...no excuse for it, I just have to resolve to clean up that part of my life if I truly want to advance.

Finding quiet time is a challenge, I know what you mean.

As far as books or readings to recommend, I can suggest several: Robert Monroe has 3 wonderful books-Journeys Out of the Body; Far Journeys (a favorite); Ultimate Journey. They are a great read and should be taken in succession for best effect to properly understand his personal journey. That being said, I don't recommend them at first; they don't offer much in the way of techniques so that doesn't help you get out or get much closer to understanding the mental perspective for achieving an exit. His experiences do run practically the entire gamut of OBE/astral possibilities, and best of all, he delivers it without any occult or esoteric overlay, just commonsense reporting. Early on he invented/discovered Hemi-sync audio entrainment, and started an OBE research foundation, you should google The Monroe Institute. He left us quite a legacy and is properly considered one of, if not the modern day pioneer of OBE exploration.

Out of Body Experiences--by Robert Peterson; a good read with balanced perspective and a fair number of techniques.

Adventures Beyond the Body--by William Buhlman; this is next on my list. It is well recommended by others, looks to have a broad perspective (I'm not too keen on 'just' one perspective, whether it be Occult, Theosophical, Wiccan, Kaballistic or whatever; take it all in and decide what to do with it later).

Voyages into the Unknown--by Bruce Moen; Another book on my list. He went through the Monroe Institute programs and wrote several books that are well regarded; with him you'll read about "retrievals".
For more on retrievals, search for posts on this site by Ginny...great stuff, great insight from her.

Soul Flight--by Donald Tyson; currently, I'm halfway through this book and it's a well-written history of the whole OBE subject, from Druidic/Pagan/Shamanic beginnings, through Occult and Theosophic traditions, up to CIA remote-viewing experiments.

Astral Dynamics--by Robert Bruce; Alongside Monroe's work this is considered a recent classic. It's long, gives extensive advice on "energy work" for the dreaming/etheric body that I have found very useful, and gives a perspective on OBE's that includes a multitude of etheric/astral entities that one may encounter, including "negative entities". Some people encounter these things and some don't...nevertheless, the information and advice is excellent.

Again, some of the best information is right here. Dig into Permanent Astral Topics, check out "Techniques", Focus 10, and the Frank Kepple Resource...all great stuff.

Hope this is helpful, EV.

[threemoons]

Thanks EV, yes very helpful and I really appreciate your time and advice. No wine last night and what a difference it
made; I could actually feel my head and right arm moving when I was in the deep throes of sleep paralysis and wouldn't have been
at all surprised  if my astral body had floated out there and then. But there's no rush.....

Funnily enough I looked at the Monroe Institute website before I read your post and if I was in the U.S. would be booking myself onto a course as soon as. Unfortunately I'm in London and we only have one Munroe accredited practitioner and they're up in Scotland. Might make contact sometime though. Have you been on any courses at the Institute?  Good luck with the "wine thing" - I've always had too much of a fondness for the stuff but I think my new-found interest might be helpful in cutting down. If I fully realise that it's effecting my ability to AP, then it's a no brainer limiting my intake!

All the best to you; it's good to know that there are others out there who have embarked on the same journey and are benefitting
so much. My main challenge at the moment is making sense of the day to day routine but I've certainly found that I'm much calmer and
more positive about everything - even the little niggly things that just served to irritate me before don't seem to matter.

[EscapeVelocity]

threemoons, it's a pleasure sharing ideas with you and I get the feeling you'll travel far and fast in your endeavors!

The Monroe courses have been a huge temptation for me, especially since his place is just a couple hours away, literally in my back yard. A little personal history: Monroe's first book was my first OBE introduction that I discovered when I was 13 years old. When I was a young twenty-something, around 1982, my friend had a cabin in the Blue Ridge mountains that I would weekend at and one afternoon I realised that Monroe's home in Afton was only 20 or so miles away; I drove through the town and inquired but was told that he had moved, whereabouts unknown. As it turned out, he had only relocated some ten miles away. I still wonder what possible, different direction my life might have taken had I found the place...heck, I'd have swept floors for minimum wage at the time.

But then again, around the same time, I almost hopped a bus to Oregon to join an ashram with Bagwhan Shree Rajneesh...he got busted and deported by the IRS a few years later.   "Focus on the breath in, focus on the breath out, focus on the turning." Way cool at the time...

But hey, back to your original post for a moment. It seems you can quickly relax to the point of seeing hypnogogic imagery; my experience and understanding says that you should passively observe this until it slows considerably. Then you can 'step into' one of these scenes, but you'll just be in some dream of your own creation (which can be fun all on its own) or you can wait a moment longer and let all the images fade, leaving a white screen or a black screen. Most experienced OBErs describe a black screen and label it the 3D Blackness. In that blackness they wait for and look for a three-dimensional quality or depth to develop, then look for an inconsistancy or subtle difference in the texture, which indicates a portal of sorts...they focus on that and are drawn into it, and are transported into a much 'truer' astral realm.

I've done the hypnogogics, seen the 3D screen, but I don't think I've taken the plunge successfully, rather I have dived off into some lingering dream hypnogogics, then maybe shifted astral; it can all get quite confusing. Most of my OBEs have been the traditional lift out/wander around the bedroom type.

So read up on the 3D Blackness. And I forgot to mention the Astral FAQs here as well.

You also mention Paralysis. It's good that you don't get bothered by that; it's a great roadsign that your body is sufficiently turned off that your spirit can go have some fun! Try just floating out, or rolling or stepping out. During this time, you may experience the Vibrations which can be disconcerting but are perfectly normal and another good roadsign to exit.

Have fun, EV.

[threemoons]

Hey EV, we must be contemporaries - I was 24 in 1982. Don't know how you've managed not to go to the Institute if you're so
close, do you think you'll ever make it? I wish I'd discovered Monroe earlier, maybe my whole life would have turned out different.
But no matter, this "discovery" has given me such a renewed joy in life and a deepening knowledge that death doesn't exist,
that even if I'd been 80 when it came to me it wouldn't have been too late. I wish I could share this with my parents who, as devout Catholics try so hard to believe in eternal life, but I know it would just worry them....Maybe being brought up Catholic opened the door to spirituality for me so I shouldn't denigrate it, but as far as organised religion goes, it has to be one of the most dangerous.

I would love to know (I think I mentioned it earlier), how one continues to give the everyday, earthbound things significance.
It's not that I'm neglecting my work or responsibilities or my friends, it's just settling into a new state of existence which is coherent,
given that I now know so much more.  Luckily my job is routine and I can day-dream but it's hard to stay focused.....
Did you have a sense of the world not being quite the way it seemed as a child? It was that way for me but I just put it down to
having a particularly vivid imagination but now I'm beginning to realise it was more than that

Thanks so much for your immensely helpful tips on 3D blackness; I'll research how I can use it. Everything you say makes sense to me - last night the vibrations in my hands/feet were so intense that it felt las if I had lead weights on them. I also heard a very distinct "pinging" sound next to my head at one stage which I hadn't experienced before.

I hope you have fun too EV and it's good to have met you. Hopefully we can continue to share thoughts and experiences.

Best wishes, threemoons (incidentally I chose that name because I had a vivid dream recently in which I saw three moons lined up - it gave me such a wonderful feeling which stayed with me on waking and for the rest of the day).