The Angular Gyrus

[Jeff_Mash]

Assuming that NDE's were all a part of a dying brain, and that these experiences were nothing more than hallucinations with out-of-body sensations, there is still a couple of things which I don't quite buy.

If NDE's (and OBE's for that matter) are hallucinations, then why do all (or most, should I say) of these "hallucinations" seem to follow a uniform experience?  In other words, most people who have a NDE report the same things: seeing their immediete surroundings, seeing a bright light or tunnel, seeing deceased relatives, etc.

Most of these cases all "see" the same thing.  Whereas hallucinations are generally erratic, unpredictable, and many times, no two people will see the same hallucination.  As a crude example, two people tripping on LSD will see different things, even though both are having the same parts of the brain stimulated.

Yet, in OBE's and NDE's thousands of people (both in the present and in ages past) experience the same type of thing.  The sensations are reproducable, and there is some sort of non-physical communication involved (as is the case with people who have verified things in the physical while they are projecting).

Also, most people who hallucinate don't have a lot of control over their experience or their actions....whereas OBE'ers and those who have had an NDE report having an incredible amount of clarity, clearness, and they possess their full conscious awareness.  They know exactly what is going on, which is why it's so amazing.

Those are just some of my thoughts on why OBE's and NDE's are not just some bi-product of the brain.

[Makaveli]

I'm not sure if they are related but that sounds like the right temporal lobe that is talked on in the article here: http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/others/articles_34.htm

This very well may be something in the brain that helps induce OBEs.  The problem is that many people make the idiotic assumption that explaining the trigger of an experience explains the experience.  This is not true at all because all this explains is a trigger.  NDEs have even been induced by orgasms but you can hardly think that does anything to provide an explanation for the experience.  It really doesn't matter how many triggers that they discover like this or with drugs because they will never explain the OBE.  These brain areas that are related to OBEs probably don't generate the experience they just allow it to happen.  

There isn't even a remotely logical or scientific reason to assume that hallucinations are generated by the brain, even though they probably contain creations of the mind.  

[cube]

Would it be possible to artificially stimulate this part of your brain with powerful magnets or electrodes and induce an OBE?

[Neo Schiavo]

I wasn't saying OBEs are hallucinations or that NDEs were the the results of a dying brain, I was stating those as comments from scientists whom specialize in this field.  All I was pointing out was that the angular gyrus--located in the center of the three major lobes (temporal, parietal, and occipital) that control the five senses--could be responsible for the triggering of out-of-body experiences.  Due to it's location, it can be associated with the temporal/occipital lobes, although it is chiefly a parietal lobule.  By inducing light electrical stimulation, a myriad of perceptional effects take place, possibly firing up a genuine OBE.  Because of it's location in the parietal lobe, the presense of external stimuli (electricity) is picked up directly (one of the parietal lobe's functions is touch) and applied.  I'll have to explain more later, I have to go.

[BOATS]

I have read some research on this topic.  This Angular Gyrus is also the part of the brain that causes dislexia. I have been treated for this as a child. It appears that some Swiss researchers have managed to give patients partial disassociation. No one has been able to induce full detachment. I do not really seem to have much more success OBE then alot of others in this forum.

[holy reality]

quote:Originally posted by cube



Would it be possible to artificially stimulate this part of your brain with powerful magnets or electrodes and induce an OBE?

I seem to remember reading a study where they did just that to people.

And "If NDE's (and OBE's for that matter) are hallucinations, then why do all (or most, should I say) of these "hallucinations" seem to follow a uniform experience? In other words, most people who have a NDE report the same things: seeing their immediete surroundings, seeing a bright light or tunnel, seeing deceased relatives, etc."

Why do most people that experience myclonic (?) jerks tend to feel like they are falling, accompanied by sometimes visual hallucinations of them tripping over something?

Why do almost all people that frequently experience sleep paralysis describe it in such similar manners?

there is a ton to consider before you use the fact that people have similar experiences as proof that they are "real"

First of all, every single one of us has heard the cheesy light at the end of the tunnel saying, and "my life flashed before my eyes" saying, and things like that.

So don't you think if you found yourself exiting your body and thought you were dead you might be just slightly (by which I mean extremely) more prone to having either of the two happen?

Secondly, the brain might interpret a loss of sensory input and a dissociated feeling and try it's hardest to represent it into terms we can understand (which is a theory on why we dream, we are interpreting random memories and neural pathways being activated) and thus it creates a tunnel.

I mean if you are conscious and you start losing your vision you get TUNNEL VISION, so I don't think there is really any significance in people seeing tunnels.

I mean for example a huge portion of American NDE-ers will probably see Jesus, or angels, etc... but if you go over to Asia a lot of them will be seeing Buddha, etc....

This does not prove that Jesus and heaven exists, or that those asians were entering Nirvana. It's just the result of collective culture.

[Makaveli]

quote:Originally posted by holy realitythere is a ton to consider before you use the fact that people have similar experiences as proof that they are "real"

First of all, every single one of us has heard the cheesy light at the end of the tunnel saying, and "my life flashed before my eyes" saying, and things like that.

So don't you think if you found yourself exiting your body and thought you were dead you might be just slightly (by which I mean extremely) more prone to having either of the two happen?

Secondly, the brain might interpret a loss of sensory input and a dissociated feeling and try it's hardest to represent it into terms we can understand (which is a theory on why we dream, we are interpreting random memories and neural pathways being activated) and thus it creates a tunnel.

I mean if you are conscious and you start losing your vision you get TUNNEL VISION, so I don't think there is really any significance in people seeing tunnels.

I mean for example a huge portion of American NDE-ers will probably see Jesus, or angels, etc... but if you go over to Asia a lot of them will be seeing Buddha, etc....

This does not prove that Jesus and heaven exists, or that those asians were entering Nirvana. It's just the result of collective culture.

Prior to the 70's most people didn't even know about NDEs.  The term hadn't even been coined yet but NDEs and experiences with the light still occurred before that even though it was far from being mainstream like it is now.  NDEs didn't really get much attention at all until Dr. Raymond Moody came out with a book about them in 75.  These experiences with aspects like the light have been recorded throughout history even going back to one Plato documented.  

Children have similar experiences to adults involving aspects like the light and tunnel.  They are less biased and are less likely to know about anything about NDEs but they still have similar experiences.    

If NDE aspects are hallucinations due to expectations then religious views of the afterlife should be more dominating in these experiences.  Religion has a much larger effect on what people expect from the afterlife then what NDEs do.  Most of what is learned doesn't seem to be affected across different cultures and through more dominating religious views.  You can see the extreme consistencies through different cultures and beliefs by looking at the research conclusions at neardeath.com.  

The more impressive thing is the consistency of information brought back about the afterlife.  The average person probably doesn't know much more about NDEs other than things like the light, tunnel, and meeting dead relatives.  Then there are the differences between AP and NDEs.  During my first AP I knew I was going out of body and thought I was dying but there was no bright light.  

It's true that people from different cultures do meet the beings like Jesus that they believe in.  This isn't always the case sometimes it can be religious figures other than what the person believes in.  Information brought back suggests that this is just because the experience is open to perception and is shaped around each individual.  It's most likely that Christians most commonly see Jesus because they will be more open to it and meeting Jesus will make them the most comfortable.  

[BOATS]

I have read that alot of children who experience NDE see deseased family members or perhaps Jesus.  I know if I was a small child dying the only thing I would want to see at the end of any tunnel would be Mommy and daddy. No matter if they are alive or dead. But these children do not report seing there parents unless they are deceased already.  This seems rather odd.

[Neo Schiavo]

I have been doing a lot of research lately on the anatomy of the brain in relation to psionics and various forms of extra-sensory perception.  Surprisingly, I have found what may be responsible for triggering out-of-body experiences--the angular gyrus.

The Angular gyrus is a folded convolution in the inferior parietal lobule formed by the union of the posterior ends of the superior and middle temporal gyri.  If that's not good enough a description ([]), here is a diagram:


The angular gyrus is higlighted in pink.

Medical studies have shown stimulus of the parietal lobe in the right angular gyrus region causes enough perceptual disburbances make awareness appear out-of-body.  Although modern scientists claim this to be simply vivid hallucinations, they are also the ones claiming NDEs are just a result of a dying brain.  Therefore, I believe the angular gyrus has the potential of actually triggering a true-to-life OBE.

I would continue, but I have to go, so given the information, what is your opinion?  Could the angular gyrus really be the part of the brain initiating the projection trigger?  Therefore, could science one day allow spontaneous OBEs at will?  Or are we just chasing our tails?