AP/OBE vs Lucid Dream

[newmethod]

My desire.. through my practice of AP is to prove to myself that i am not limited to my physical body & that my consciousness will continue to exist after the death of this physical body...

I can get myself to the vibrational state and feel i am progressing fairly well..
I am an experienced lucid dreamer..

Question: How different is an AP/OBE from a lucid dream? ... because the more i read from this site the more similar they sound... 

Will my main goal of Astral Projection (should i reach it) help me understand that my consciousness can reside outside of a phsical body?
If AP's are so similar to Lucid Dreams then i doubt i will reach my main goal & may be wasting some of my time...

Thank you,
Newmethod

[dbmathis]

My understanding is that a dream / lucid dream is the doorway to OBEs, it's the natural way to ease your awareness away from your physical state.

When you become lucid in a dream consider this as your subconscious trying to communicate with you and tell you things, such as "You are dreaming, now is a good time to have an OBE (which isn't a lucid dream)".

I just finished reading William Buhlman's book "Adventures Beyond the Body" and he talkes about becoming lucid in a "dream" and thought to himself "I must be dreaming" and immediately entered the vibrational state while dreaming. Out of habit he focused his complete attention on the idea of floating away from his body. Within seconds he went from dreaming to lifting out of his body and began exploring.

I have had lucid dreams in the past and then 4 OBEs in the last month. The difference for me was that the OBE seemed real, just like I am typing to you now feels real, however the lucid dream still seems dreamlike.

I must admit that every OBE I have had, required that I fight dream thoughts from entering my consciousness.

[newmethod]

I have had lucid dreams in the past and then 4 OBEs in the last month. The difference for me was that the OBE seemed real, just like I am typing to you now feels real, however the lucid dream still seems dreamlike.

I must admit that every OBE I have had, required that I fight dream thoughts from entering my consciousness.

I agree that the lucid dream still feels dreamlike - colours seem possibly more intense at times than in waking life but agreed that they still feel dreamlike

Seems like I still need to go exploring ...

In your OBE's did you remember the exit?
Did you feel that you were seperate from your physical body?

[dbmathis]

Yes, I did feel separate from my body, because each time I either floated out of my body over my wife or I rolled out to the side and was literally standing next to my bed. I was completely aware of what was going on.

Another difference about the OBEs is that I still remember them vividly as if what happened was part of my normal waking life. Most but not all dreams tend to fade from my memories quickly.

[Stookie]

I've had many lucid dreams that are indistinguishable from everyday life and vivid and memorable as a traditional OBE. In fact, some of my lucid dreams tend to be very similar to my projections. I suppose the main difference would be a sudden realization of the dream can start hazy and may not come into full awareness, whereas with a conscious projection the realization isn't so sudden, and (somewhat) expected. The outcome is always surreal (or maybe hyper-real).

Really, I think it's mostly semantics. For me, the ultimate goal is controlling awareness beyond the physical, no matter what the method or experience is called. If I'm consciously aware while my body is asleep or in trance, I consider it success. The more control I can gain over the experience, the less I care what it's called.

[dbmathis]

Thanks Stookie, what you have typed makes a a lot of sense. I have so much to look forward to and learn.

[newmethod]

Thanks dbmathis & stookie for your input, was thinking about this thread the other day & thought I owe it to myself to explore the OBE/AP/LD phenomenon further, as from my philosophical view of the universe I need to explore it...

I've been exploring my mind through meditation & life, my energetic systems through meditation & life, and been exploring my mind & dreams further through Lucid Dreaming..... how can i let a natural phenomenon like OBE remain unexplored??

Really, I think it's mostly semantics. For me, the ultimate goal is controlling awareness beyond the physical, no matter what the method or experience is called. If I'm consciously aware while my body is asleep or in trance, I consider it success. The more control I can gain over the experience, the less I care what it's called.

Thank you Stookie for this comment... years ago this was my main goal.... whether asleep or awake.... awareness

It reminds me of something i read.. I'm sure it was in a book by Anthony de Mello... He was talking with Krishnamurti... & Krishnamurti and he were in a garden and they were giving examples of awareness etc... Krishnamurti stated at one point that he is constantly aware.. aware doing this, aware doing...  so aware he believed that he was 1. Not having memories as all his experiences were created from new (thereby not triggering past memories) - say when he looked at a flower in the garden - even though he had seen it before, smelt it before etc.. that the whole experiene was new.. I also remember him eventually stating that 2. He was aware throughout his sleeping.. He sleeps but he is aware... At the time i though WOW.. Amazing!! ... Shortly followed by... what the hell is he doing in those hours - aware but asleep.. that would have to be pretty boring.... what are you aware of?? Sensations in the body (at the time i was practicing a lot of Vipassana meditation)....

Now i know... maybe it wasn't hours of sensations and black eyelids.. Maybe it was hours of TRAVELLING!!

Thanks again for your comments,
Newmethod

[Lighten]

I don't know if I'm coming up with a new method here or not but Newmethod has inspired a new method.
Similar to performing reality checks but instead just work all day on being aware. Like he said the guy he quoted did. It makes sense that you would then naturally carry that over to the dream state. More awareness could also equal more conscious control.( I think?)

[dbmathis]

Being aware is the key, but I wouldn't say that this approach is anything new.

[The_One]

How would I go about being aware? I'd really like to know some techniques.
  Thanks

[dbmathis]

I have found that staying aware in both waking life and sleep both require that you constantly focus on what's happening or what you are doing without letting your mind wander. It just requires focus and practice.

A simple exercise would be to think of some habit that you have and try to change that habit. Through trying to change a simple habit you will realize just how unaware you are in waking life.

[The_One]

Thanks, I'll try that.

[newmethod]

How would I go about being aware? I'd really like to know some techniques.
  Thanks

Techniques would be almost as limitless as the imagination but in the long term if you are using techniques are you trully 'perceiving reality as it really is'. This is a goal of mine... Though techniques are often required in the beginning until you learn how to be...

The main technique i use to achieve a state of awareness is to focus my attention on sensations in my body, energy systems etc. I also monitor what i am thinking about. I also choose to expand my peripheral vision to encompass more of my surroundings..choose to listen to sounds around me... Simply be AWARE of what you are experiencing!!

Though the experience is largely limited by where you are choosing to focus.. It is difficult to perceive a large variety of information in any one moment in time...Though choice (awareness) or habit (normally unaware) will dictate what you are perceiving...

I have found that staying aware in both waking life and sleep both require that you constantly focus on what's happening or what you are doing without letting your mind wander. It just requires focus and practice.

Exactly right... if the mind is wandering = unaware... Unless you are deliberately allowing your mind to wander (ie. it may be useful in creating new ideas etc)

In waking life i try to have some if not all attention centred within my body... Any part.. perceive the natural sensations that are already there.. say...at present i have... the feel of my fingers touching the keyboard... my family playing in the background.. (auditory sensations) other sensations in my body that i feel... most of which are pleasant .... the sensation of my heart now growing wider as a grin forms across my face... It is ALL Awareness about what is happening in the present moment...

Being involved in and consciously choosing where to focus attention in the present moment is the key to having awareness

Largely, it is a matter of choice as to where we put our focus.... If we are choosing to focus our energy on one thing.. and our mind wanders from the task at hand, then we have lost our awareness somewhere along the line.. Be gentle with yourself...Simply redirect your focus and energy to where you desire it to go...

often people focus on the future or past.. that is OK if that is where you are intending to put your focus, otherwise you are being unaware... Running on habit, fear etc..

I figure greater awareness will naturally extend itself into having OBE..

[dbmathis]

I figure greater awareness will naturally extend itself into having OBE..

I think this is very true. About 13 years ago I got caught up is the fast paced lifestyle and "habit" was my middle name. Every day I would do the same things and run around like a chicken with my head cut off. I was in a nowhere job and I was the person you didn't like because you would see me driving down the road on the cell phone oblivious to the world.

Then about that same time I bought a house out in the country way out away from the city. The change was slow but I started breaking out of this pattern. I would come home late at night and notice that out in the country I could see the stars, I could literally see our Milky Way Galaxy stretching across the entire width of the sky. This made me think about the habits I had created which caused me to never stop to notice anything else.

There was something about the peacefulness of being out under the quiet star lit sky that made me realize how ridiculous my previous hectic life was. This is really hard to explain to someone who has never experienced this. I get this same feeling when I drive up into the mountains by myself and sit out by mountain stream. I can feel nature saturating my soul and a calmness comes over me and I feel like I am melting into the earth.

I lived in this house for 5 years, same nowhere job, but I started making a conscious effort to notice other things. I would sit on my porch every night out under the stars and reflect on my day and think about the universe.

One night while reflecting I realized that I was not happy with my life and that I wanted a good wife, kids and a better job. I was single at the time and felt that I was not doing anything great with my life and I had just ended a nasty relationship.

Sometime during the next week it was raining very hard one night and I felt compelled to step out into the rain and ask out loud for changes that I wanted to see in my life. This would change my life forever.

Throughout the course of the next year I changed every habit that I had previous created that was negative or counterproductive and started to REALLY notice things around me. I consciously made decisions that I knew would help me achieve the things I wanted. I never doubted myself once. I was grateful for the few things I had and hopeful for the future.

It was simply amazing how much the positive thoughts changed my life. It was 6 years ago to date when I stepped out into the rain and asked for change and today I am happily married with a beautiful daughter and a fantastic job doing what I like in a new city 1000 miles away from where I felt trapped at one time.

I have applied this technique of using thoughts to create my reality over and over again and I have yet to be disappointed. For example I filed bankruptcy in 2001 and ruined my credit. I applied the thought techniques to fixed my credit and now my credit score is very close to 800. I could have just as well accepted a credit score of 590 as my reality and continued through my life doing the same things as before.

I feel like the more you become aware of other things / possibilities, the more you will naturally break habits, as you stated. This will be the same for OBEs, I have NO doubt in my mind.

People, if you want to achieve your goals, break old habits and think about your goals and how to achieve them every hour of the day and it will become reality. Never doubt your abilities.