Are sleep paralysis and the vibrations the same phenomenoa?

[Leary Herring]

Do

[Summerlander]

They are practically the same but on occasion you may experience vibrations more prominently than paralysis and vice versa. I personally think both sensations are a very physical feedback and can go hand in hand.

[CFTraveler]

Sleep paralysis is when your mind wakes up but your body doesn't.  You may experience hallucinations, dreams, and yes, vibrations when in SP. 
Vibrations are felt when in the transitional state, either going into trance (or exit) or coming back (reintegration).  And I do agree that they are physical in nature (or experienced in a physical sense) possibly because of a change in brainwave frequency as you go into or out of trance.

[Summerlander]

Sleep paralysis is when your mind wakes up but your body doesn't.

I wouldn't say it like that though. Sleep paralysis always happens whether you are aware of it or not. It is when the pons sends inhibitory signals to motor neurons in the spinal cord causing muscle atonia. Such mechanism stops you from acting out your dreams. When you intend to induce an OOBE and you reach SP/VS, the mind doesn't wake up from any sleep, in fact, you barely lose any awareness. It is the body that switches off as though you have gone to sleep when in fact you haven't.

[CFTraveler]

Sure, but you're not aware of it, so no worries.

[Summerlander]

Yes, I know what you mean. In Forums like these we tend to refer to SP as only that which we may experience prior to an OOBE.

[Pauli2]

Yes, I know what you mean. In Forums like these we tend to refer to SP as only that which we may experience prior to an OOBE.

no

[Summerlander]

no

What do you mean "no"?

[CFTraveler]

I can find the link for what Pauli's referring to, because I was in that original fightconversation.  Hee hee.

[CFTraveler]

Here's the cleaned up version.  I guess the other one disappeared, or I couldn't find it.
Anyway, you'd need popcorn for the other one.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/ap_from_sleep_paralysis-t30144.0.html

[Summerlander]

Bring it.

I don't see what the beef is here because most of us in these forums tend to refer to the term as only happening when we are aware of it.

What exactly is he saying "no" to?

Since Pauli2 seems reluctant to elaborate, why don't you enlighten me with your wisdom, CFTraveler?

EDIT:

I just checked the link. Don't let Bedeekin see that.

[Pauli2]

What exactly is he saying "no" to?

keep ur lines shorter

[Summerlander]

keep ur lines shorter

Ok...

No what?

[CFTraveler]

Bring it.

Er, ....?

EDIT:

I just checked the link. Don't let Bedeekin see that.

Why, and why do you seem to bring Bedeekin in on any possible argument we may have?  (Not that we're having one, I think we actually agree here).

[Xanth]

Yeah, I think that was one of the threads that got "rolled back" with the great forum crash of Aug 2010. 
I definitely remember it being a few pages in length.

[Tee1234]

   I have had both sleep paralysis and vibrations, but I am not too sure if I have had them simultaneously.

   What is the difference between sleep paralysis and the vibrations? Are they related or one and the same?

Everytime I get the vibrations, sleep paralysis comes along with it.

When I induce an obe and get to the part when the big vibration comes I remain calm, when it finishes, i'll exit. Now, back in the beginning I used to try to get out during the vibrations. So when the vibration hit, instead of letting it finish, I would try and get out. Sometimes I would get an arm or a leg out, but I was more-less super glued to my body and my body was almost completely paralyzed. This is how I figured out you have to wait for them to end, to exit.

So the vibration brings sleep paralysis with it. Only after the vibes hit and the body is in full paralysis can you exit. Ive actually tried to get out during the vibration and also opened my eyes(thinkn it was time) and seen my astral arm pop out of my physical arm, but the vibrations werent finished so I didnt get out all the way. It was real weird. Hard to explain though cause Im not sure how I was able to see.  Maybe my astral vision was out as well, but it lasted like 10 seconds and I was trying as hard as I can to exit. Ultimately it ruined it. Just didnt happen cause you have to wait for them to finish.

Dont worry about paralysis though, you shouldnt try to move during the vibrations anyway. Remain calm let them finish n exit.
Sometimes though during an obe, from sudden fear or etc.. you could abruptly get shot back to your body and somewhat be awake to find yourself in paralysis. That could obviously be scary, but again, remain calm and youl be right back to the obe. if you open your eyes n try to move it could get pretty scary and ya might hallucinate, but it will only last for a couple seconds untill the rest of your body wakes up. Thats why ill just keep em closed and continue on.

You can always experiment. Next time you get to the Vibrational stage, during it-almost at the end, open your eyes and try to get up and see what happens. Obviously youl ruin the obe but youl gain the experience of what happens. Which in turn will give you a better idea of whats goin on. -somewhat

[Summerlander]

Everytime I get the vibrations, sleep paralysis comes along with it.

I get this quite a lot too. For once we are not butting heads. LOL

Why, and why do you seem to bring Bedeekin in on any possible argument we may have?  (Not that we're having one, I think we actually agree here).

Look...several times I have entered a deep state of sleep paralysis without losing consciousness from the moment I went down in order to induce an OOBE. Using your terms, I was "lucid" from the get-go. Even if on occasion you happen to lose your mind in wandering thoughts or unconsciousness to regain it again in sleep paralysis, it doesn't mean bonk all! You can see the paralysis state develop, unfold...it's not a blooddy trance...you are just aware of sensations manifesting that you otherwise wouldn't be aware of. It's as simple as that.

As for Bedeekin being mentioned...I've known him from AVers. I know his story, his experience with SP from childhood. He's got a lifetime of experience with OOBEs. Ask him what you are implying about SP in that link. Just ask him...

[Xanth]

Bedeekin is the alive-Frank from Astral Viewers. 

Summerlander...
The way I see it, words like Trance, Sleep Paralysis, Point Consciousness, Void, Focus 10/12... they really all describe the same thing.  They're all synonyms for the same thing.

That's how I see it at least. 

[Summerlander]

Okay...back to semantics...

By the way, I just don't agree with the statement that CFTraveler made in that you are not "lucid in SP" but you become aware of it smack in the middle or something. This goes against my experience. I've felt this state unfold and I was very much aware of what I was trying to achieve (an OOBE) and on those occasions I never lost consciousness (although that can happen but very rarely with me). I can only go by what I experience. It's how I see it and experience it. bonk it.

[Xanth]

Okay...back to semantics...

By the way, I just don't agree with the statement that CFTraveler made in that you are not "lucid in SP" but you become aware of it smack in the middle or something. This goes against my experience. I've felt this state unfold and I was very much aware of what I was trying to achieve (an OOBE) and on those occasions I never lost consciousness (although that can happen but very rarely with me). I can only go by what I experience. It's how I see it and experience it. bonk it.

You have to understand how we use the term "Sleep Paralysis" on this forum.  I noticed that you guys on AV tended to use it more as a "catch all".
I think the general view of it here is how it's viewed in the scientific community... and most of the difference between what you say you experience and what we think Sleep Paralysis is, is just one of perception and "when" it comes on.

"Sleep Paralysis" is when you're sleeping (unconscious) and you "wake up" before the paralysis has worn off.  So, CFT is correct in that you become aware of it "smack in the middle" of it.  There's unconscious sleep that happens prior to it.

Meanwhile, entering a Trance state is/can be the same thing... with the difference being that you enter the Trance state completely conscious, never having a break in consciousness.  It's a smooth transition of consciousness instead of being "unconscious" and moving into it from there unknowingly.

I think they're the same experience with the difference being WHEN it occurs and what state of awareness you have while it occurs.

[Summerlander]

If you put it on the plate like that...I'll eat it.

[CFTraveler]

Okay...back to semantics...

By the way, I just don't agree with the statement that CFTraveler made in that you are not "lucid in SP" but you become aware of it smack in the middle or something. This goes against my experience. I've felt this state unfold and I was very much aware of what I was trying to achieve (an OOBE) and on those occasions I never lost consciousness (although that can happen but very rarely with me). I can only go by what I experience. It's how I see it and experience it. bonk it.

If this is what you think I said then maybe the 'condensed' version didn't portray what I said in that and other posts.  I'll try to make this very clear:
Sleep Paralysis is not what you experience when you are entering a trance or consciously going into the state necessary for projection.  This is not sleep paralysis, this is 'deep trance', or 'trance paralysis' or 'waking paralysis'.  This is perfect for projecting.

If you wake up from deep sleep, and your body has not received the 'move' impulses from the brain, this is Sleep Paralysis and it is not good for projecting, because you are not lucid enough to realize you can do it.  Two different parts of the dream cycle, both usable for projecting, but not as easy because of the lucidity problem.  Can it be used for projecting?  Sure.  But you have to get lucid, go back to trance, and then try again.  And most people, once they're up, they're too awake, unless it's the middle of the night, and they succeed and then forget what they did.  Hence, my assertion that it's not good for projecting as a rule.

If you didn't lose consciousness then it was not Sleep Paralysis, plain and simple.
I am not saying you don't have to be paralyzed to project (although with experience, you don't, it's just much harder), I'm saying both states are not the same and shouldn't be confused with each other.
Going to sleep-> good for projection
Coming back from sleep ->  Not so easy for projection.
That's the distinction I'm making.

If you are comparing what I said to what someone said and then to what you're experiencing, you are losing something in the translation, and possibly objecting to something you even agree with.
That's why I like 'waking paralysis' for the good time and 'sleep paralysis' for the not so good time to project.

[Tee1234]

Okay...back to semantics...

By the way, I just don't agree with the statement that CFTraveler made in that you are not "lucid in SP" but you become aware of it smack in the middle or something. This goes against my experience. I've felt this state unfold and I was very much aware of what I was trying to achieve (an OOBE) and on those occasions I never lost consciousness (although that can happen but very rarely with me). I can only go by what I experience. It's how I see it and experience it. bonk it.

For me when I induce an OBE Im always aware when paralysis hits -always.

So many people have different ways of doin it and even different feelings on what an actual obe is. My guess is that CFT was never aware through out paralysis, thats why he thinks its not possible.

Like I said read around, alot of people are confusing little vibrations, thinking that is the vibrational stage(the big one). The vibrational stage is the big one that brings paralysis with it. When that one ends, and yes you maintain awareness through out, your there.  I never lost awareness during the vibrational stage. I dont think Ive ever been more aware of anything when that hits.

[Summerlander]

Yes Tee, I know what you mean by the "big" vibrations. ^^

One question to CFTraveler...

What about REM atonia?

[Xanth]

What about REM atonia?

I believe that's that actual "paralysis" portion of it.

Of which, isn't required in order to "project".