hearing voices

jilola · July 25, 2003, 15:17:58

Didn't know you had a daughter.
Actually it could very well be her. The limitations we have in our bodies, for example with regards to higher thought, and our behavioural patterns don't necessarily extend to our astral presences.
We are souls and as such much older than thhe bodies we inhabit on the physical.
Your daughter may well be calling you by your name as she may realize that on the astral you're equal and not related by birth as a parent and child.
Someone will be along shortly to prove that I'm completely off the maark [B)]

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 15:31:39

actually I would be quite happy to play with my daughter in the astral, since she was probably sleeping when I tried to project, I assume she was in her dreams... And the fact that her voice was so far, seems normal to me as she sees me only once or twice a week.

Anyway irrelevant to these considerations, the child that I saw and heard was really someone I would want to play with, as I felt much happy love in her calling, so focusing on her image while trying to project will sure help me being a little more confident. You see I was afraid of meeting some neg at first, so meeting this child is a real good surprise.

If anyone think it's impossible to be called by a "physical" dreaming child, please mention it!

jilola · July 25, 2003, 15:36:50

Not impossible at all. There are several accounts of exactly that on these forums. Pets too, for that matter.

As for meeting negs, I'm with the faction that believes there are none and that they are either projections of our own imagination and fears or that they are basically neutral or friendly entities that our fears transform into these scary creatures.

Initially fear is only natural since the environment is so different and follows a different set of rules.
Nothing can harm you so there really is no need for fear. If you've read the many excellent posts by Frank you know that the single most important thing is to remain calm and detached in the astral. What you think is what you get.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 17:28:25

I just tryed again to project
I felt a new sensation of vibrations, and my heartbeat accelerating, but my awareness went up, and all faded. Actually I realise my awareness has to be a little fuzzy, but not actually in the dream. I was working with my breathing, thinking of different uninteresting things, when they came all around my insides. It felt great, although the heart beat was a little fast... I really doubt this was my heart chakra as explained in the OBE treetise by bruce robert.
I have seen a little girl again, in a glimpse, from much closer, but she walked behind me very fastly, yet I can tell that she doesn't look like my daughter: the main difference was her haircut, and she seemed a little older. But I wouldn't have thought she looked this way from afar, maybe it was not the same little girl... But I may think this might be the appearance my guide would have chosen, it's strange, but it makes sense to me: I am taught by a little girl! (my daughter forced me to learn very much, but she didn't intend to...)

jilola · July 25, 2003, 17:35:44

The amount of sensation the heart chakra can cause varies a lot. I've noticed that mine usually doesn't register at all.
The tricky part for me is always the moment when I sense the first indications of separation. I've found it enourmously difficult to remain detached from the sensations.

Perhaps your guide is using the fact that you already attuned to learning from a little girl so assuming that mode would make the first face to face encounters easier.

Remember that in th eastral you're mind changes things so seeing something from afar can lead to you filling in details that arenät there and misinterpreting those that are.

Also, she could still be your daughter but in a form she'd like to be on the physical.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 17:47:45

could you please tell me what you mean by tricky a little more in depth? and also I was wondering if people have this concern of how much awareness is needed!

My Guide seems to respond positive thru shivers when it comes to the little girl, so I think that is it, but I can't figure out why I can see her, and not keep the state, but rather move my awareness to some higher point. And I don't understand why the vibrations come at a point which is less deep than the one where I see her: what means her appearance? I don't know, even if I'm glad to have her around while trying to project... she's really one of the best things that happend in my life!

jilola · July 25, 2003, 17:55:30

What I meant by "tricky" is that the sensations can disturb your concentration and bring you back to being aware of the physical. That will usually bring the projection to a screeching halt.
I've found that the more one tries the stronger the sensations are. This is consistent with the thinking that we always project in our sleep. Since we never feel the sensations, unless we for some reason are almost awake, the stregnth of the sensations seems to be related to the effort and level of consciousness at the time.
When one wakes up in the middle of the separation it seems to result in the "sleep paralysis" and "night terror" phemonena. Sleep paralysis is normal to a sleeping body and prevent it from injuring itself when the mind reacts to it's perceptions.
The night terrors are how the conscious mind interprets the borderline astral environment and can be extremely frightening. They are harmless though.

Since the sensations come before projection it explains why you get them before seeing her. When you've managed to see her you have succeeded in passing through the separation without being aware of it and thus missing the sensations altogether.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 18:07:17

but I see her before having the sensations: I'm almost asleep, see her, get more awake, the return a little deeper and get the sensation.

If I understand well the more you are aware, the stronger the sensations will be? When you say the more one tries you mean making some effort to achieve projection, not trying often?

If we get "awake during separation" then we have paralizis? but that's about what I just got, and was not paralised, maybe the separation was not started, only the sensation had started. But I guess if you are paralised you can choose to get back to sleep? does it mean that paralisis is a failure for the projection?

jilola · July 25, 2003, 18:17:50

Sorry I seem to have gotten the sequence of events a bit mixed up.
I the case of you seeing her and then getting the sensations you're probably already seeing into the astral by way of remote viewing or something like that. The the separation begins and you get the sensations to some degree or another.

I believe the exit sensations are related to the difference our mind has from being attuned to the astral. So the more aware of your surroundings you are the stronger the potential difference, if you will, is and this the stronger the sensations are.

About effort. There's another tricky part. If you try to force a projection you will most likely fail due to being too much aware of being in the physical. You will need to be indifferent to the physical level and try to focus on the higher planes. But the act of trying is an indication to you that you're not there thus having the effect of bringing you back to the pysical. It's but of a zen thing actually. Have you read the posts aboout phasing by Frank? If you then do so.

If you didn't get the paralysis two explanations are possibly in my opinion. Either you passed through to the fully awake level so auickly you didn't notice the paralysis or you weren't deep enough to the paralysis to have started.
the paralysis, if you are aware of it, is not necessarily a n indication of a failed projection. It only means, accoring to Robert Bruce's theory, that the mind separation happened but your physical original was too aware for you to be able to integrate the returning astral bodies experiences.
If you find yourself in the sleep paralysis state there is nothing to stop you from resuming the separation or turning it into a sleep state. Yo can also wake up completely by wiggling your body until you break the state.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 18:41:17

What is remote viewing?

"aware of your surroundings" you mean physical surroundings, that's it?

you passed through to the fully awake level
I don't understand this... to the fully awake level would mean we would be heading to awake level, but I assume we are heading to separation, which seem to come at some state less awake than fully awake...

How would you "resume" separation from paralysed state?

There are 6 pages of topics when searching for "phasing" by frank, What posting do you refer to?

jilola · July 25, 2003, 18:50:58

Remote viewing is seeing with what some call your third eye. In other words you're seeing via the astral without actually being there.

Yes, I meant being aware of the physical.

Yes, you understood correctly. I meant that since you saw the girl you had passed to the astral without noticing the separation. When you then got the sensations you were coming back toward the physical awareness. The sensations are felt by the physical body so coming back to being aware of the physical let you feel the sensations.
You had already gone the other way, ie. toward the astral and were coming back to the physical.

You can attempt to resume the separation exactly as you would begin attempting the projection from a fully aware state. You need to be able to ignore the sensations and form a firm intent on being in the astral.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 19:04:37

Ok, that's much clearer to me thanx
What I did not tell you is that from the moment I saw the girl, and the moment I felt the sensations there has been a while, so I think I saw the girl thru remote viewing, without getting out, I went back to almost full awake state, then I managed to place my awareness at the right level so the sensation start... that's my actualised version.

what about the posting by frank?

quote:
There are 6 pages of topics when searching for "phasing" by frank, What posting do you refer to?

jilola · July 25, 2003, 19:09:57

Read them all. He's a goldmine [8D]

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 19:14:50

sorry jilola, it's just not possible
If you don't give me a reference, I'll take the one that title inspire me.. I might never see the relation with our discussion (very interesting though (and I thank you for this))

jilola · July 25, 2003, 19:26:28

Frère · July 25, 2003, 19:35:40

Thank you so much
I'll read them all
Hope we talk again soon!
Have a great day... (I seem to realise that it is early morning in finland isn't it?)

jilola · July 25, 2003, 19:36:59

4:40AM actually. I'm afraind I've been up all night [xx(]

The links should give you an idea and a good foundation arounf the forums.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Frère · July 25, 2003, 19:46:58

thanks again, and be sure I'll be studious
sleep well!

Frère · July 25, 2003, 05:56:11

When aproaching sleep I hear distant voices, but can never clearly approach them because if I realise I'm "starting to dream" I get more awake and don't hear them anymore. I don't want to hear them in a normal state, but where do these voices come from? they seemed like being voices of people I don't really know, but once I heard one of them call me, so I really wonder: am I creating these voices, or do they somehow exist?

News:

hearing voices