voices heard in vibrational state

[MisterJingo]

I'm more than familiar with hypnogogic voices and sounds at the start of trance. But I'm curious of peoples opinions of voices heard during the vibrational state?
I just took a nap and felt intense vibrations; I could only seem to float up a foot or so during them before I hit a 'barrier'. During this there was a lot of sound around me, mostly foot steps as people seemed to be walking over things in my room.
An elderly, but fit gentleman seemed to be behind me (there is really a wall there). I couldn't see him, but knew what he looked like and knew about him. He was dressed almost like an old Victorian explorer. He was also a medium. He was talking to me, saying how surprised he was to find so many others (spirits) here (around me). He said it was busy here. This gave me the idea that these others were always here around me. He then mentioned water, saying something like you only usually get such concentrations by water. It might have actually been the word 'blue' instead of water, and due to association I interpreted it as water.
This conversation went on for a while, and the noise around me, and in the garden continued.
The vibrations stayed for a while, so I tried pushing past this barrier and they intensified. I then seemed to send out a thought stating I was ready. Ready for what I'm not sure .
During the experience I was lucid, and I evoked the vibrations just after waking up. I felt the potential for them, so just 'pushed out' which brought them surging in.

During hypnogogic states, the voices are quite incoherent, and unless I feel deeply into an hypnogogic scenario – where my lucidity dims to near zero (a dream lucidity) – they are usually too unstructured to have conversations with. Also, if I get absorbed in a hypnogogic scenario, I'm no longer in my room. With vibrational conversations as above, I have full awareness of my body and room and am very lucid. Just usually paralysed and feeling the vibrations.

[stephen~]

Vibartional state voices are eerily clear, it seems to me. It seems to me they are like listening to Radio 4 - FM quality, and they seem to be about something that makes logical sense, although they may have no direct relationship to me.  They often seem to be between two people who are discussing something that progresses logically, although I often have no idea what they are talking about, they seem so earnest that it is hard to believe it is not real - like eavesdropping on someone's private discussion from the past. A self-contained dialogue is another way of putting it, I guess.

On occasions, I am the subject and I feel a direct involvement, they are pulling me, trying to help me. I'm like a patient, talking about me as if I wasn't there, stuff like that.

I'm rather sceptical about them these days: perhaps it is just highly coherent brain chatter, a past memory of a real conversation from somewhere, even something picked up off TV. What impresses me is the clarity, and the apparent 'sense' they make. Trouble I find is recalling much of what is said, whatever my intentions when I wake I seem to have forgotten what it was all about.

It always interests me the way the vibrational 'push' causes a change in the intensity of vibration. If this is common to all of us who have the odd vibe or two, I wonder if it signifies something detectable to neurological instruments? To me vibration is like linning up all the wheels on a combination lock, even if you have all the numbers but one you can't open it no matter how hard you push. When you get it right you can sail out without effort. I cannot get out at all now, the last number eludes me.

[Whatever]

I had a similar experience. It was weird. I was asleep then I kinda woke up and heard whispers. I got scarred and tried to stand up but I noticed that I cant move no matter how hard I tried. I couldn't understand what where they talking about but it scarred the s... out of me. It went about a minute and then I woke up...

[jub jub]

Last night I heard them again just before I fell asleep. This time it was like the TV in my room was on!

Damn spirit world just abounds with activity! They must be restless!  :heh:

[Token]

It always interests me the way the vibrational 'push' causes a change in the intensity of vibration. If this is common to all of us who have the odd vibe or two, I wonder if it signifies something detectable to neurological instruments? To me vibration is like lining up all the wheels on a combination lock, even if you have all the numbers but one you can't open it no matter how hard you push. When you get it right you can sail out without effort. I cannot get out at all now, the last number eludes me.

You might be doing something differently than you used to but don't realize you changed your technique. What I do to get out at this moment in time is to focus completely on the vibrations and in particular, the noise and just try to "wrap it around me" as much as possible, just really get into the feeling at the exclusion of everything else.  I also mentally encourage myself to move forward and to feel everything that is going on.  This is a very reliable method for me.  If you get a chance to try this I would be interested in hearing if you have any success with it.

[Token]

I get the same feeling about these voices in that they seem to be talking but without any regard for the fact that I'm there listening.  I also have a hard time understanding what is being said.

[stephen~]

Token, thanks for the advice. For years I've been telling people almost the opposite, that you should ignore the vibrations, think beyond them and the voices too, and just focus on being 'out there'! Perhaps I really need to rethink my whole thinking on this because clearly something is no longer working for me. So I'll take your advice and give it a real try, I particularly like the wrapping around mental image, like enclosing yourself in your own energy in a self-supporting way, positive mental images can only help.

Do you ever feel you are up against a time limit with the vibes? When I didn't know what the vibes were I'd just project. Over time I became familiar with the pattern, that rising in intensity out of nowhere then falling away again, and I think that has made me kind of anxious of getting it right before they fade away again, of their being a ticking clock, window of opportunity, call it what you will. I don't think that helps me. Rolling my eyes up into my head helps, but isn't successful in itself. I feel I have been going backwards in my projection abilities for a long time.

Going back to the voices, I find them fascinating at times and worth just listening to without projecting, wherever it is they come from.

[Token]

Do you ever feel you are up against a time limit with the vibes? When I didn't know what the vibes were I'd just project. Over time I became familiar with the pattern, that rising in intensity out of nowhere then falling away again, and I think that has made me kind of anxious of getting it right before they fade away again, of their being a ticking clock, window of opportunity, call it what you will. I don't think that helps me. Rolling my eyes up into my head helps, but isn't successful in itself. I feel I have been going backwards in my projection abilities for a long time.

I do believe you have just identified the cause of your problem!    There is no real time limit per se.  The ebb and flow of the vibrations is the tool you need to be successful at this.  What you need to do as I mentioned earlier is to wrap yourself up in the sound and the feel of the vibrations and use the changes in the vibrations (the ebb and flow) as feedback to guide you toward ever increasing vibrations.  Don't fear that they will disappear (or they will), just listen to them and guide your mind so that the vibes "waver" toward a greater and greater level.  The wavering is like a drunk driver trying to stay on the road, but keep the focus, be calm and "accepting" at all times and let the vibrations guide you and you will be fine.  There is no need to push (and you shouldn't) because once the vibrations swell enough, you will just release and float out or roll out with absolutely no effort on your part.  Sometimes I will gently nudge myself (very gently) to roll out as I get excited to get a move on, and I'll do this if I'm lingering in the vibe state a little too long, but if you do nudge yourself it really has to be subtle or you will break out of the vibrations.

[MisterJingo]

The reason for posting about this was for others feedback on voices heard during vibrations (start of an OBE) compared to hypnogogic aural hallucinations (heard on the border of sleep).
Hypnogogic sounds/voices are generally inconsistent and have little to no relevance to my current circumstances. Sometimes getting involved in an hypnogogic scenario will bring about more consistency in the voices, but usually it involves the scene I have become involved in. Such as I find myself (with little or no lucidity) sitting on a chair in some conference listening to conversations amongst the people there. I will soon 'pop' out of this and realise I slipped into a dream state.
Voices heard during the vibrations are usually addressed to me directly, not to the character I have become in the dream scenario. They also seem relevant to my physical life and my identity there.
So I was curious of others experiences of this, and if the voices heard during vibrations (due to their proximity to a full OBE experience) should be taken any more seriously than those on the border of sleep.

[stephen~]

How do you mean, take more seriously? Do you mean can you use them to your advantage to help with your projection purpose, or perhaps to learn something of yourself, of the OBE experience that is somehow more enlightening than the stream of lucid but ultimately dreamy insubstancial stuff you sometimes get with hynogogic imagery? Something that has genuine worth to you?

I think like any conversation you might have with someone you just met it can be rewarding, but I am not sure you can take them any more seriously than the hypnogogic experiences. Perhaps it depends on your perception of their origin. If you believe these are spirits coming to help you, or let you know something you didn't know before perhaps they would seem more worthwhile than if you just thought they were just better quality brain chatter. Perhaps if you are expecting the voices to help that's what you get, are they real then or self generated, how can you know? Because they seem relevent to you in a way that the hypnogogic ones don't doesn't mean maybe they are any more real. But if you believe they are more real it is going to have a positive effect on your life. But real, maybe.. Then again if they are self generated they can still be of value if this inner voice enlightens you in some way.

I can't make up my mind about them, because there's a paralel with projections in that some projections are more 'real' than others, yet do we say that the 'less real' ones are not real in any sense? How you value any experience is entirely personal, I think, so to me they (the vibe state voices) are just part of the mysterious side effects of astral travel because I have no way of proving what they are. I listen out to learn more, but haven't made up my mind.

I suppose the one thing that bothers me is that if you ever catch yourself slipping ever more into stream-of-conscious thoughts as you fall asleep, those thoughts/conversations/sounds/ dream imagery differ from the vibe experience only in that they exist in a time of vague lucidity. During the vibes we are bolt upright awake in a sense. More lucidity, more clarity, more sense versus less lucidity, less clarity and less sense. If it is only the level of lucidity that is dictating things then perhaps it is all brain generated, and the brain/consciousness whatever is perhaps better at creating a more stable sense-making scenario (conversations that make sense, that seem relevent) when it is close to being fully aware, perhaps to fit more comfortably with our expectations from our normal pedestrian waking lives?

Token thanks again, invaluable advice. I have decided to go back to the beginning as it were and accept that I know absolutely nothing and keep an open mind, like when I first started having these experiences, including whether I believe any of these experiences are actually real or not. Sorry MisterJingo for sidetracking your thread briefly back there.

[MisterJingo]

How do you mean, take more seriously? Do you mean can you use them to your advantage to help with your projection purpose, or perhaps to learn something of yourself, of the OBE experience that is somehow more enlightening than the stream of lucid but ultimately dreamy insubstancial stuff you sometimes get with hynogogic imagery? Something that has genuine worth to you?

I guess I meant that I perceive hypnogogic hallucinations to be the meanderings of my mind when it borders sleep (the subconscious), I don't really give any relevance to what is heard, and pretty much ignore it as my mind babbling.
If the OBE state has any greater reality than being generated by the brain (as discussed many times in other threads), do conversations heard and undertaken in that state and/or at the start of an OBE experience have any relevance outside of me. The type of conversations, my lucidity and participation in them is certainly very different.


ps: I haven't time to reply to the rest of your reply just now, but I wanted to add the above to clear up what I meant.

[Token]

I tend not to separate OBE experiences and hypnogogic hallucinations into "valuable" and "not so valuable" or real and not-real categories as I find it very difficult to decide what is inside my head and what is external.  Mostly because I think this is a very grey area anyway.  I guess I start from the premise that self awareness (consciousness) has no real connection with the physical brain.  I was reading a book recently edited by Ken Wilber called "Quantum Questions" which is a bunch of essays by the worlds greatest physicists on the questions of consciousness and it seems to be the general consensus that physics will never be able to find a physical model to connect the conscious mind to the physical mind.  This is very important to me because even something like a common dream has to be given great importance in light of this.  Even though one cannot deny that the physical activity of the brain and certain thoughts or hallucinations are related, I tend to think that thought comes first and brain activity reflects that rather than the other way around.  If thought itself is external than voices, whether they come from hypnogogia or during the vibrational state can also always be considered to be external.

Don't know if that helps much.