Astral Projection & The Bible...

[Jazket]

Ecclesiastes 12
1 Remember your Creator
      in the days of your youth,
      before the days of trouble come
      and the years approach when you will say,
      "I find no pleasure in them"-

2 before the sun and the light
      and the moon and the stars grow dark,
      and the clouds return after the rain;

3 when the keepers of the house tremble,
      and the strong men stoop,
      when the grinders cease because they are few,
      and those looking through the windows grow dim;

4 when the doors to the street are closed
      and the sound of grinding fades;
      when men rise up at the sound of birds,
      but all their songs grow faint;

5 when men are afraid of heights
      and of dangers in the streets;
      when the almond tree blossoms
      and the grasshopper drags himself along
      and desire no longer is stirred.
      Then man goes to his eternal home
      and mourners go about the streets.

6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
      or the golden bowl is broken;
      before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
      or the wheel broken at the well,

7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
      and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
[/i]

[David Warner]

Ap Friends,

Well everything is all set for the religious/out of body discussion. Should be interested and yes I'm nervous but at the same time excited. The priest that I will be conversing with is aware this will travel the world, so there will be edits along the way. Pro-bally won't be released until a week or so.

If anyone has any questions you would like me to ask - please submit in the next day and I'll add them in.

Thank You,

Tvos

[David Warner]

Jazket,

Are you trying to say we shouldn't project?. Have you been following this thread or any of the other threads I've posted on the scientific research of oobe?

Tvos

[Jazket]

Jazket,

Are you trying to say we shouldn't project?. Have you been following this thread or any of the other threads I've posted on the scientific research of oobe?

Tvos

No my friend, your thread refers to "Astral Projection and the Bible", therefore I posted a verse from Ecclesiastes that tells you about Astral Projection and the Bible; just wanted you to know that Astral Projection is not an invention of nowadays men, but something that has existed since the beggining. You should not read my post or comments "literally" as other do... just want you to know how close is the knowledge you are looking for... and to question all what you would end up hearing, since and after all, we are all Humans under the exact same defects, whether its me, whether its you, whether it is a priest or a pastor, or a pope... let the voice of God that lies inside you guide your intelligence

[-->PhenomenoN<--]

I think what Jesus was saying is not that HE is the only way to God, but rather his example and model (the way, the truth and the life) is the way to God and spiritual progression.

EXACTLY

that is so true

[The Present Moment]

Every discussion I've ever had concerning OBEs and whatnot with christians is immediately discredited by the verse "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  Nobody come to Him but through me."

There is a similar quote from Buddha:

Whoever sees the Dhamma, sees me; whoever sees me, see the Dhamma.

IMO, it means I am what I preach.

[hypnotist1]

Hi Tvos,

I saw the TV show Unsolved Mysteries and one of the shows topics was astral travel.  They talked about a monk or a religious figure that was in one area in a chapel and was in a trance.

While he was in a trance state in another town many miles away a man spoke in the center of town and talk about the religion of the day to the group and in the crowd one of the people knew him but knew he was back in the other town several miles away which took a few days to travel.

When he came back to the town where the monk was he questioned him and the monk told him he never left the place he was at?

But he remembered in a dream that he was in another town given a speech.

He look real and solid to his friend and the group of people in that other town.

I hope this helps in some way for you and your priest?

Sincerely,
Frank (hypnotist1)

[Leyla]

From what I understand Paul was "scrying."

1 corinthians chapters 13 verse 2 he speaks on and on about how
" I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries."

And in 1 corinthian chapter 13 verse 12 he says '

"For now we see thorough a glass darkly." And goes on about how much he "knows now and shall know."

That is scrying to see the future, which is done though a dark glass.

And as we know from another post on here, you can astral project into other worlds through scrying in a dark glass, and actually walk into the future.

This is how Nostradomous did it. He also was a jew.

[David Warner]

AP Friends,

Just got back from a successful meeting with Ralph. Everything was caught on tape and this is a great discussion. Basically, in a nutshell he was all for me leaving the body, experiencing astral projection and helping people here, family/friends and in the spiritual worlds. As long you objective is for truth,religion, knowing the difference between the dark path and projecting yourself to God. He explained that everyone has different means of finding God and this mean was a gift from God, pursue this path of light.

We talked for about 2hours along with his wife. They had a few experiences to relate as well. They are hard core Christians, follow the bible and great friends. But all in all - the bottom line is follow god, learn from the experiences, help others and make a difference in this world and the next.

What more can you ever ask for than a success discussion as this!!

Anyways, I will be going thru the audio file and editing a little here and there. Probably will be on my site within weeks. Just need to confirm with Ralph once he gives me the okay to release the final edit.

Again, Thank You everyone.. You guyz are out of this world (literally out of body)...:)

Tvos

[knightlight]

Sweet TVOS!  Can't wait to hear it!     I love this forum!  :grouphug:  


BTW WTF is this emoticon??
:gasp:

[The Present Moment]

They are hard core Christians, follow the bible and great friends.

What sect is this priest from?

[David Warner]

The Present Moment,

Yesterday in the interview I asked the title of my friend - Priest, Father, or Minister and come to find he's neither one of them (my error). He teaches at aquinas.edu which an inclusive educational community rooted in the Catholic Dominican tradition.

BackGround
Professor Ralph completed a Masters and Ph.D. from the Divinity School in interdisciplinary work in Theology and Philosophy at the University of Chicago (1963-69). Among his several teaching stints are seven years as a philosophy teacher at the University of Detroit (1968-75) four years as a theology teacher at Hope College (1975-79) and four years at Winebrenner Seminary (1983-87). At present he is a Senior Lecturer in Philosophy and Humanities at Aquinas College, where he hopes to stay a long while. Currently he is working on a monograph on Western Intellectual thought entitled " From the Acropolis to the Astronauts," which comprises several of his philosophical interests: history, faith, knowledge and art. He hopes to conclude this twenty year old project in 2001.

Ralph married my wife and I back in 2003 and attends our church 'MarsHill in Grand Rapids Michigan. It was a pleasure talking with Ralph on this subject 'The Bible and Astral Projection'. Basically, in a nutshell, if your objectives are pure, good, and you use the out of body/astral projection as a tool to help/heal then you are on the right path. But if you use this as evil, dark, revenge, hate, harm, hurt, etc... then obvious its not the correct path.

I believe if I was to interview my minister Rob at MarsHill, he would probally give the same feedback as Ralph. Although, he might say that this is not the objective of Marshill but as long you feel this is the path to God and you can help people. What else is there to say.


Tvos

[Stookie]

Did he say anything about Jesus Christ in relation to AP? Because in my past Christian experiences, knowing Christ is the main and only thing that matters. I'm curious how Christ relates to these experiences. I'm looking forward to the final cut. (I'm still having problems with your website though).

[David Warner]

Stookie,

Not really - the discussion was mostly geared towards the "positive/negative" with out of body experiences and the bible.  We touched up on the disciples being in trance, or sleep and God channeling with message.

Basically, if we use out of body experiences negatively then
we are pursuing a dark and scary path that can lead us, deceive
and possibly hurt us and other people. (Kinda of reminds me of Darth Vader and the dark path, how it twisted, turned him and the emperor lying. Same concept with out of body/ astral projection.

As long we work together on this, be a team, work towards the positive
light and who ever you worship "Budah, Ala, Gandhi, Jesus, God, The Eagle Spirit" - it all comes from one - the source. Every culture has its identity with their religion - does not make it right or wrong just because you call your source God, or I call my source Budah.

Tvos

[-->PhenomenoN<--]

INTERESTING

[MFInsane]

Hello All!

 I am very new to the group!
In fact this is my very 1st reply to any topic. I am impressed. I am a very religious person. I have been a faithful christian most of my life, and it has been confirms threw my obe and ap experiences that there really is a GOD and a Jesus.

I do, like you, believe that Revelations was written while John was in an obe state. I also have read other scripture that tells us that we, as Christians will possess many gifts of the spirit. This includes ap and obe. I can not quote the exact scripture, but I am going to definitely look for it now!

I also feel that these spiritual gifts have always been around. The problem was that people thought of them as being evil. Therefore, those whom possessed these obe gifts would not speak of them because they did not want to be out casted or persecuted for there gift.
Look at Salem and the witch hunts. Can you imagine what any one a few hundred years ago would say to us now?

Times have changed so that we can now express these truths. The truths that have always been around but never told.

I also believe that it is impossible to become an Apr's and not believe that there is a higher power. It comes with the territory!

[David Warner]

MFInsane,

Well said!!

I was actually surprised with the discussion I had with Ralph and the support with oobe. It was a nice vindication from other personal views that surround me in my community. I am hoping to get this discussion up and on-line within a few weeks. Right now, I'm swamped with rebuilding my network/computer desk along with figuring a better way to offer my journals on-line vs. ftp.

I also have read other scripture that tells us that we, as Christians will possess many gifts of the spirit. This includes ap and obe.

If you can find this passage that would be great. What I really need to do is start writing this information down/study this in the bible. So that when a religious debate/personal views of others come along this would be  good information to fire back with.

I think in the time of the Salem Witch trials I would definitely been a good roast. Not to disrespect the people who've died but I am sure that I would be first in line.

Tvos

[Stookie]

Points at TVOS
"He's a WITCH!"
------------------------
I'm probably beating a dead horse with this whole "Jesus" thing, but that's the main thing that keeps entering my mind with this subject. What does Jesus dying on the Cross have to do with anything? It is one of the most significant things in the entire bible and the MOST significant event in Christianity. Why did a man who represents God have to die "for our sins"? It also says that He's returning. Physically? Does he really exist? If not, why should I believe anything else in the bible? It's written by people who believed this.

If it's all just a simple matter of Good VS. Evil no matter who you worship, then the Bible (and every other religion) just complicates things. I think the Taoists were onto something.

[greatoutdoors]

Salem, huh? I can only say in that day and time I would do my level best to stay under the radar -- those folks were not nice! OF course, some people are hesitant to acknowledge their interests even today. We have a lady here at work that is Wiccan if ever I have known one, but she keeps a very low profile.  That sure stops some interesting conversations. Sigh...

What I look for in the Bible is similarity to other writings. For instance, the New Testament says that while we are in this life we will see as through a dark glass but in the next life we will clearly understand. That concept is carried over in Buddhist, Wiccan, and New Age philosophy, and maybe others. It's apparently saying we "can't handle the truth" (couldn't resist) now, but at some point we will be granted enlightenment.

I could add more but it would be off topic.

As relates to this topic, I think is is quite valuable to be as well read as we can so that we can have reasonably intelligent discussions on this type of subject when it comes up.

[David Warner]

Greatoutdoors,

I do agree and one of the biggest reasons why I started this post was because of a conflict of interest with family and friend from church. Stating that I was treading a dark path and messing with evil forces and what the bible condemned.

Having this information available and keeping it on-hand when the subject arises is a incredible tool. At least this can be dealt with a positive approach then negative controversial.

Tvos

[MFInsane]

I would have to say that if a book created by the scrolls of several different books that can with stand the test of time and; still be "The Best Selling Book" today, has got to have some sort of spiritual protection and truth to it!

[nicolas]

I'll show you all the verses in the bible that is related to OBE.

"I know a man in Christ fourteen years before--whether in the body, I do not know, or out of the body, I do not know, God knows--such a one was caught up to the third Heaven. And I know such a man--whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows--that he was caught up into Paradise and heard unspeakable words which a man is not permitted to speak." (2 Cor. 12:2-4).

Third heaven and paradise here means spirit world. So this man was out of his body and was in an other dimension.

"And at once I became in spirit. And, behold, a throne was set in Heaven, and One sitting on the throne." (Rev. 4:2).

We can see that John traveled with his spirit to an other dimension

"And he carried me in spirit onto a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, holy Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God,..." (Rev. 21:10).

Again.

"Remember him-before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well, and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:6-7)

The silver cord here is refered to the astral cord. It says remember God before you die (silver cord is severed). In these times, egyptians knew about out of body experiences, and they knew that the cord is what brings life from your spirit to your physical body.

In conclusion, God knows about astral projection, he himself live in an other dimension. I don't think it is a sin to practice astral projection, it always depends of youre intentions. There are many demons and unclean spirits in the astral world and/or the spirit world. You have to take care of yourself while you travel in the spirit world.

[David Warner]

Nicolas,

Thank You for the post - good stuff here!! Eventually, I'll have to compile all these verses from the bible. Anytime when someone likes to raise an argument about astral projection - I'll show them the verses so they can clearly see that this is a religious tool of Christianity and God - dreams, out of body experiences etc...  and the whole intent as I mentioned in the recorded discussion was based on "for the love of god and helping in the physical and astral worlds".

Tvos

[David Warner]

Ap Friends,

The editing is taking a little longer , but its coming along. Not easy listening to yourself blab on about astral projection, personal beliefs and worldly views.

I am hoping in a few weeks the editing will be complete and that I will be able to release it to the net..

Tvos

[gordy]

Hi folks, I posted this here below as it seems appropriate re the bible etc. I posted it in another room but noticed the topic here so thats why I doubled it up here, hope u dont mind.

Gordy

Hi there again, I forgot to add to my previous post of the lack of vibrations simply because, it happened so fast that there was resounding swoosh of air or something as I began spinning bodily around rising skywards to the ceiling and then I just floated there.

I know what the learned guys mean now to be able to experience an OBE. You have to develop a deep need and really believe that it will happen. I also think a few prayers asking for assistance as I sense a feeling of divine presence is behind them.

I'm not religious but I ( correlating OBE's with the bible) keep relating to the last chapter in the book of Daniel told us in the latter days of our planet our young men will envisage non material spiritual things, wonderful dreams and visions. He said our life styles will change and be vastly different ( our digital way of life ) than anything we have known before and we will be able to do so many awesome things.

Obe's seem to bring home to me exactly what that chapter was getting at and the reality of what Daniel was trying to portray to us in our last days.

I feel also that we have a beautiful creator, call Him what u like ( God of my understanding that I call Jesus ) but He is there in the form of a bright and shiny light of unbelievable pure love and compassion.

When I finally get to move about in the Astral I will look to Him to validate my feelings although I sense His presence with me now without having to go and do that.

Probably a task I'd like to undertake in the Astral though. *s*

Just my thoughts and as God of MY understand *s*

Cheers

GHi ordy