OBE proof through paranormal investigation

[BOATS]

I was wondering how many forum members are now involved in physical paranormal investigation due to there OBE experiences.  To me investigation seems to validate the OBE experience through photographs, video and evp's taken around people attempting OBE.  I always believed in the paranormal world but have noticed a definite increase in activity around me since actively attempting astral projection the past few years.  Personally I believe the astral is simply a parallel dimension existing alongside us.  I have been able to get apparitions, orbs, voices and video easily.  there are thousands are teams doing the same all over the world.  Just GOOGLE it.

[Zante]

It's all interesting stuff, that's for sure. Current researchers believe it all happens in our heads and that it is subjective. They believe the idea of being able to interact with someone else's "mystical" experience is nonsense, yet from our own experiences regarding this we know that assumption to be utterly false. Because it is false we can feel threatened at times by it, it's as though we are letting someone who is utterly inept speak on our behalf. This, in turn, leads to all sorts of mad searches for "proof" and validation. Some people believe in it so strongly they're willing to falsify their proof whilst, at the same time, feel justified in doing so.

You can't persuade other people to believe in something as strongly as you might unless you inspire them with information they can actually use in their daily lives. EVP and photos of orbs are somewhat cliche these days, people want more understanding of what's going on.

Quantum physics/biology/chemistry, is the closest the scientific community have come to realizing how little they know. I'm a huge follower of discoveries made in these areas because it attempts to explain the existence of physical reality from an impartial point of view. The scientific community has always been divided throughout history, all because people believe in "facts" which are constantly being disproved. Even in the field of quantum mechanics there's a huge division due to what the discoveries imply regarding spirituality and the nature of physical reality. There're all sorts of labels being thrown around such as "junk science" and "quackery".

Trying to persuade someone else is a loser's game. You can only inspire them to think for themselves.

[David Warner]

Zante,

I agree with what you are saying. The projectionist can validate, prove, write the obe journals and give metaphysical siminars preaching until the cows come home. It all lyes within the person to explore and draw their own conclusions.

The problem with skeptics is that they don't take the time, or serious study and research the subject. Let alone work until they have a full blown OBE, then reproduce it, nuture it and control it. Another element is the people who have died (Near Death Experiences) and what they've reported through the begining of time. There is so much out there that is unexplained, everyone trying to say its in the head vs. a validating experience.

So its burning the candle at both ends of the stick - one will agree and the other opposite. Doesn't make us both wrong or right - but I say until you seriously experience the obe, travel until the higher planes, validate, its a total different ball game.

ohh btw: go tigers!!..

tvos

tvos

[mjolnir_knight]

I feel the same as Zante.  If they want to proove it, then go ahead.  But the only people they are prooving it to is themselves.  There is no point in prooving it to those who already believe.  I believe that the only reason they are trying to proove it is because it is not considered "normal" by the greater part of the arrogent human race.  People never discover their true abilities so, therefore, they label anything else "abnormal".  I do, however, believe it is about time for the scientific community to get involved with the supernatural, as many people call it.  Wait... Did I just contradict myself???  Oh well...  You couldn't have said it better, Zante.

Patrick

[zareste]

Current researchers believe it all happens in our heads and that it is subjective

If that's you're idea of a researcher then we're all doomed.

It's crazy to think the followers of atheism and such things are interested in proof.  Everything proves them wrong and is therefore invalid in their belief system.  You'll have an easier time telling some guy in a mental institution that the walls aren't talking to him.

[Spawn_Xe]

wasnt Robert Monroe a skeptic at first?

[Leo Volont]

So I did search around and found that Dr. Charles Tart did conduct an Experiment, following all the acceptable scientific protocols, and documented that a girl was able to go Out of Body and read a 'target number' -- a sequence of 5 random numbers.

http://www.near-death.com/tart.html

Additionally, there have been anecdotal studies of those experiencing Near Death Experiences, that they were able to see instrument readings that were not in their line of sight, as they lay dead.

Of course, I can point out some minor flaws in methodology here.  With Dr. Tart's experiment, he took no precautions to hide the Target Number from himself, and so we don't know whether we have proof of Out of Body Projection or Mind Reading.

Of course, there have been attributions of great success concerning Scientific Remote Viewing, though the American Pentagon has skuttled their own Department for Remote Viewing.  I think it is because they kept locating Bin Ladan precisely when all the American War Profiteers would rather he not be found.   

[catmeow]

That's an interesting account Leo. 

It's a shame however that the protocol was so flawed (number was theoretically visible via reflection, possible use of reaching rods/mirrors, subject was not video recorded to exclude possibility of cheating, random number was known to at least one other living individual). Also some mystery surrounds the high level of sixty-cycle eeg.  Also, considering the success of this experiment it's surprising that Dr Tart did not keep on repeating it to verify that it was not just a "one-off".  By not repeating the experiment, Dr Tart could be accused of "quitting while he was ahead", which of course distorts the odds.

Never the less, it's an interesting result.  I believe that Ingo Swann also achieved a similar feat.

[Awakened_Mind]

Current researchers believe it all happens in our heads and that it is subjective.

Contemporary quantum physics is implying that our subjectivity, collectively and individually, IS reality. That it comes from within us.

It seems that ultimately, our deepest fear will be realized. Consequently, forcing us to be liberated from our immaturity and accept ultimate responsibility.

(Maturity and enlightenment in my mind are equivalent.)

There is a scientific known as Parapsychology. You might enjoy studies done in the field

-AM

[Zante]

As I say, it's all divided. I tend to believe what you imply by this but most of the "scientific community" label such implications as junk science. I don't think some of you are reading my post correctly. : )

Let's take into account movies such as "what the bleep do we know", I loved it but it was very heavily criticized. Even some of the researchers who had been interviewed throughout the course of the film were furious at the context they had been placed in. They were in fear of having already commit professional suicide. Despite the positive message, it was torn apart by critics (nothing new there). If the science of quantum physics was as conclusive as we all wish it would be then we wouldn't have any questions. But due to the nature of the field, we have many more questions than we do answers.

Again, everything that has been mentioned in this thread is elementary. We already have our own beliefs regarding the matter which makes having to rely on science to reinforce them redundant. Parapsychology is also largely frowned upon in those circles. However intriguing it may be to us it is seen as a waste of time by people who see these others as desperately trying to prove that which seems impossible, "unscientifically" to boot.

It would all be very simple if our culture had evolved differently but as Carl Jung said...

If you want to avoid the disastrous prejudice of the Western mind you will have to introduce the matter under the cloak of science.

I see that some of you are trying to refute what I am saying due to your belief that I am making an attempt at debunking OBEs. I don't know how some of you have come to this conclusion but rest assured, I am on your side. If you want to be truly balanced regarding this you need to look at both sides of the argument, however much they might disagree with you. That is all I'm saying, anything else would be to block it out due to fear or anger. Just do not make the assumption that the scientific community is currently advocating what we believe in. The world would be a very different place if this were the case.

Things are changing though...


Edit:

There is a scientific known as Parapsychology. You might enjoy studies done in the field 

I have no idea what you are trying to imply by this. To suggest that I have not come over the concept of parapsychology seems like an insult/sarcasm almost. Especially when I already state the situation regarding EVP and photos of orbs, of course there's more to the field than that, not that you ever addressed any of it!

Maturity and enlightenment in my mind are equivalent

Yes, quite.

[Flannery]

Contemporary quantum physics is implying that our subjectivity, collectively and individually, IS reality. That it comes from within us.

Not so. Not even implying.