Does the astral world look like the physical one?
Sure, it can do, it can also look completely different. If you can imagine it, it can look like that and it can also look like things you cant imagine yet.
Quote from: fatfooty on September 01, 2016, 22:20:47
Does the astral world look like the physical one?
Let's put it this way...
This "physical reality" *IS* an "astral reality".
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2016, 12:14:46
Let's put it this way...
This "physical reality" *IS* an "astral reality".
I disagree.
The physical realm is physical. The astral realm is non-physical, by definition. They are labeled differently because they are different. Just like the "H" and the "C" on typical water faucets. These are very useful labels and you do not want to confuse them.
fatfooty, to get a better understanding you might want to read a couple books on the subject. Maybe try Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce. He describes a layer he calls the RTZ or Real Time Zone that is an exact replica of earth that many people see when they get OBE. It is not what I would call "astral" but since most people have never consciously projected there it doesn't really matter.
Quote from: RobertForsythe on September 02, 2016, 15:25:41
I disagree.
The physical realm is physical. The astral realm is non-physical, by definition. They are labeled differently because they are different. Just like the "H" and the "C" on typical water faucets. These are very useful labels and you do not want to confuse them.
Have you ever really felt around during your projections? Ran your hand along a wall? Climbed a tree? Felt the breeze on your face? I have, and I've done this kind of test MANY times... the conclusion come to is that what we subjectively call the "non-physical" *IS*, in fact, VERY physical while you're experiencing it. So, then, it simply becomes a matter of perspective, because when I'm "there", this physical reality is what feels like the non-physical reality.
It's not until I really started to delve deeper into projection that I found that the labels "Physical" and "Non-physical" are whole-fully inadequate to define our experiences. Kind of like what I was saying the other day about the term "OBE" from Monroe. They're limiting labels which, in turn, only limit yourself.
For me, the terms simply don't work anymore. My experiences don't fit neatly into the classical boxes/labels I've been given, so I throw them away in an attempt to stay "box-less".
Quotefatfooty, to get a better understanding you might want to read a couple books on the subject. Maybe try Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce. He describes a layer he calls the RTZ or Real Time Zone that is an exact replica of earth that many people see when they get OBE. It is not what I would call "astral" but since most people have never consciously projected there it doesn't really matter.
Actually, I'd stay FAAAAAAAAAAR away from Robert Bruce. He's a fear-monger. The only thing you will learn from him is to fear your non-physical experiences. He spreads fear in the hopes that "HE" is the only one who can help you. You'll find he posts a lot about negative spirits and such and expounds this information to the point where it's become extremely tiresome.
He did a "discussion/interview" with Tom Campbell once and it was extremely enlightening to see the two of them talk. He's so fear-based that he's like an open book.
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2016, 18:23:15
Have you ever really felt around during your projections? Ran your hand along a wall? Climbed a tree? Felt the breeze on your face? I have, and I've done this kind of test MANY times... the conclusion come to is that what we subjectively call the "non-physical" *IS*, in fact, VERY physical while you're experiencing it. So, then, it simply becomes a matter of perspective, because when I'm "there", this physical reality is what feels like the non-physical reality.
Hmmm, that giant leap of illogical thinking doesn't make sense. Just because something feels like it is something it doesn't mean that it *is* that something. I have some polyester pajamas that feel like silk but they definitely are not silk pajamas.
And yes, I have felt around during my projections. I have felt the rough surface of a wall and then pushed my hand right through that wall -- definitely *not* physical.
QuoteIt's not until I really started to delve deeper into projection that I found that the labels "Physical" and "Non-physical" are whole-fully inadequate to define our experiences. Kind of like what I was saying the other day about the term "OBE" from Monroe. They're limiting labels which, in turn, only limit yourself.
And now you are not just being illogical but you are also inconsistent. The other day I recall you dismissed the Monroe terminology of "Out-of-Body" that people have embraced because "it feels like leaving the body". So... the "feeling" qualification is only valid when you say it is?
QuoteFor me, the terms simply don't work anymore. My experiences don't fit neatly into the classical boxes/labels I've been given, so I throw them away in an attempt to stay "box-less".
For me, the terms work well enough and I am not afraid of boxes or labels. I find them to be useful tools to be used when when they fit the job at hand.
QuoteActually, I'd stay FAAAAAAAAAAR away from Robert Bruce. He's a fear-monger. The only thing you will learn from him is to fear your non-physical experiences. He spreads fear in the hopes that "HE" is the only one who can help you. You'll find he posts a lot about negative spirits and such and expounds this information to the point where it's become extremely tiresome.
He did a "discussion/interview" with Tom Campbell once and it was extremely enlightening to see the two of them talk. He's so fear-based that he's like an open book.
I saw that interview a few years ago and my memory of it is not crystal clear, but I do not recall the comments of Robert Bruce in that interview being all that fear based. I did notice that the guy with a Phd in Physics was a little more articulate than the guy with a high school diploma. I also notice that Bruce speaks openly about his astral projection experiences while Campbell provides very little detail about his NPMR experiences.
I will also say that my first successful attempts at full conscious OBE were during the time when I was following a Robert Bruce method. I do not agree with him on a lot of things but I will give credit were credit is due and I think his book is a good read for people asking the type of question in this OP.
If that's "illogical thinking" to you... when the truth slaps you in the face and you refuse to believe it because of the box you've placed yourself into... well, you're illustrating my point perfectly.
That's exactly what I refer to when I say people get stuck in their boxes. You refuse to even consider what I'm saying because you're stuck in your way of thinking.
I used to be stuck in that way of thinking too until I opened my mind to other possibilities.
But feel free to enjoy your box. I know how comforting it can be to have something to hold onto like that... :)
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2016, 20:53:40
If that's "illogical thinking" to you... when the truth slaps you in the face and you refuse to believe it because of the box you've placed yourself into... well, you're illustrating my point perfectly.
That's exactly what I refer to when I say people get stuck in their boxes. You refuse to even consider what I'm saying because you're stuck in your way of thinking.
What "truth" are you referring to? It is not that I refuse to believe you as a matter of faith... I refute your false claim and illogical thinking.
Just because I use a "box" to organize things and I use "labels" as a step on a ladder it does not mean I am stuck anywhere. On the contrary, those who refuse to use boxes and labels properly are usually cast adrift and getting nowhere fast while those who use them properly actually make progress.
I think you are both correct, the views the two of you have presented aren't necessarily contradictory.
Does the astral world "feel" just like a physical one? Yes it absolutely can do. Can you then also break the laws of physics we know in said experience? Most of the time yes you can.
The common factor between these two realities is the unit of consciousness and the mechanic of the reality we experience is perception. Our perception is what makes both experiences seem physical. But the underlying data source dictates the rules of that reality, and those rules do differ.
Like Thomas said I also think you are both correct. To me the defining difference between physical and non-physical is I take the physical to be this place here where my physical body 'can' go. The non-physical is that place where my physical body 'can not' go.
Quote from: Nameless on September 02, 2016, 22:01:14
Like Thomas said I also think you are both correct. To me the defining difference between physical and non-physical is I take the physical to be this place here where my physical body 'can' go. The non-physical is that place where my physical body 'can not' go.
:lol:
If someone says, "This "physical reality" *IS* an "astral reality"." and someone else says, "No, they're not" ... they are not both correct.
Quote from: RobertForsythe on September 02, 2016, 22:10:46
:lol:
If someone says, "This "physical reality" *IS* an "astral reality"." and someone else says, "No, they're not" ... they are not both correct.
Haha, okay you got me on THAT. Totally missed it. Agreed, they are not both correct. :-)
Quote from: ThaomasOfGrey on September 02, 2016, 21:33:48
The common factor between these two realities is the unit of consciousness and the mechanic of the reality we experience is perception. Our perception is what makes both experiences seem physical. But the underlying data source dictates the rules of that reality, and those rules do differ.
This is what I was referring to. I guess in short I'm thinking 'they are both real'.
Quote from: RobertForsythe on September 02, 2016, 22:10:46
:lol:
If someone says, "This "physical reality" *IS* an "astral reality"." and someone else says, "No, they're not" ... they are not both correct.
That just depends on how you choose to define reality. Most people think of reality as being this physical area that we co-perceive, but that collapses under close inspection.
For example, humans see a color spectrum of only 3 base colors. There are deep sea crabs that can see up to 18 base colors. The reality that we see is nothing like what the crab sees. These realities only exist inside our own minds.
Yes, the physical reality is an astral reality, as is every type of reality. They are all consciousness realities. When you say that the physical reality is not like the astral realities you aren't discussing reality anymore. Now you are discussing the mechanics of the underlying data source you perceive to generate your reality and yes, they are not always the same.
There are infinite permutations of underlying data sources with different rule sets that we call "physical" but the rules don't make the reality, perception does.
Quote from: ThaomasOfGrey on September 02, 2016, 22:36:05
There are infinite permutations of underlying data sources with different rule sets that we call "physical" but the rules don't make the reality, perception does.
We are in agreement. This is exactly what I meant. Both are real. But in the astral my body can not follow. In the physical it can. Different set of rules. Perception is all we really have and 'it' can go anywhere even if we can't physically see all the colors.
Imagine a rainbow through a crabs eyes = mind explosion.
We just so happen to be grid locked in this reality for reasons we will understand sooner or later down the line. The physical and non physical are just labels we throw on to tell apart our grid locked reality from the many others.
A reality is only as real as the value you give to it.
Quote from: funfire on September 03, 2016, 00:20:13
We just so happen to be grid locked in this reality for reasons we will understand sooner or later down the line. The physical and non physical are just labels we throw on to tell apart our grid locked reality from the many others.
A reality is only as real as the value you give to it.
This deserves repeating!! Whoop! :-)
Quote from: Nameless on September 03, 2016, 00:24:14
This deserves repeating!! Whoop! :-)
I'll definitely second that!
Quote from: RobertForsythe on September 02, 2016, 22:10:46
:lol:
If someone says, "This "physical reality" *IS* an "astral reality"." and someone else says, "No, they're not" ... they are not both correct.
That's fine. You're allowed to believe whatever you want. We've had vastly different experiences which have driven our separate conclusions.
My experiences have shown me that this physical reality is simply one of an infinite number of "non-physical" realities and everything is consciousness.
You simply haven't reached that point yet. That's okay, because you will one day. It's the natural progression of things. I have no doubt of that. :)
You can apologize to me later. ;)
QuoteDoes the astral world look like the physical one?
Does the world you see on your computer screen look like the physical world? Sometimes it does, but it has no obligation to. Sometimes you see shots of South America, sometimes you see computer-generated fractals.
Same with a projection space.
It is also worth pointing out that the word "physical" is a bit tricky... it literally means that whatever it is concerned with is a system governed by laws. In this sense, the majority of realities may well be called physical.
But I know what you mean when you talk about the physical / nonphysical distinction- you mean realities which are not continuous with this particular world's projection, or necessarily governed by the same set of laws this one is.
so if this physical reality is no different than any other, why is it so that:
we are physically born into it as a helpless infant rather than projecting into it as a "adult" consciousness from "somewhere else" as when astral projecting?
we grow and age and must meet certain basic physical needs in order to continue to exist here, does this happen in any other reality?
eventually we all die and exit this reality in our current form. Depending on what you believe, we may end up coming back again or many times. Is this sequence done the same way in these other realities?
Can anyone give me parallels?
Maybe these are dumb questions, feel free to pile on, but I'm seeing a big difference between this reality and what is experienced elsewhere. Call it what you will: a proving ground, grade school or whatever. It is different in those respects.
Quote from: Ricochet on September 08, 2016, 17:49:40
so if this physical reality is no different than any other, why is it so that:
we are physically born into it as a helpless infant rather than projecting into it as a "adult" consciousness from "somewhere else" as when astral projecting?
Here is my perspective...
When you project to another reality, you essentially can do just about whatever you want... the constraints and limitations which we're apart of in this physical reality don't really effect us in the same way.
You get "born into" this physical reality in order to experience those limitations and constraints. Those limitations and constraints are what makes this reality a 'fast track' of sorts to spiritual growth. In an environment where you can do whatever you want with no limits or constraints isn't a system where you can effectively learn in.
That's the point.
"Here" (this physical reality) is really only different from "there" (any other reality) due to the fact you were born into this reality to experience this reality in its completeness... that includes all of the limitations and constraints it puts upon our consciousness.
Xanth i asked you in that masculine energy topic and didn't get answer i am really interested how you discovored or know that we are here to learn love or how to love?
Quote from: Ricochet on September 08, 2016, 17:49:40
we are physically born into it as a helpless infant rather than projecting into it as a "adult" consciousness from "somewhere else" as when astral projecting?
The soul itself can't project into a body in it's full being because the physical body will die (many unborn or miscarried babies die because the energy is too strong, so the actual pair need to try again). The actual soul or spirit downloads trough the childhood until you are adult. We are building up our actual personality through childhood. If we are following our best path, the true self downloads more and you become attuned more with yourself.
That is my best understanding.
You don't need to come "back" here if you finished the Earth school :)
This reality is same as the vast NP but here you are directing your movie in a slowed down environment where you need to learn manipulate energy and use mindpower or you can't be so free in the NP later. We need to grow up.
William Buhlman has this funny question like if you were a well experienced graduated spirit, do you want an infant one to sit next to you, who instantly manifest anything around you and mostly fear or just can't control it's mind?
Quote from: Positive3 on September 08, 2016, 19:33:48
Xanth i asked you in that masculine energy topic and didn't get answer i am really interested how you discovored or know that we are here to learn love or how to love?
I "know", as in it's a personal truth (someone who isn't me would call it a "belief"). I don't KNOW, as in ultimate truth.
How did I come to this knowledge? A very long string of occurrences.
Suffice to say, throughout all of my experiences (physical and non-physical) combined, the most logical way to live your life is through Love.
Quote from: Xanth on September 08, 2016, 21:30:48
How did I come to this knowledge? A very long string of occurrences.
I am guessing that it started from a young age with;
Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Quote from: RobertForsythe on September 08, 2016, 21:50:21
I am guessing that it started from a young age with;
Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Sure! We'll go with that. ;)
Whatever gets someone to that point is good.
The difference being that I recognize each of us as "god".
Honestly though, when all is said and done, learning to walk with Love in our world is just the more logical way to go through life.
We really don't need more Fear... Fear only tears things apart. Love builds.
Now, with that said, you *CAN* build with Fear. Those people who do this can seem like strong and powerful individuals, but Fear's potential to build is limited. Love's potential to build is unlimited.