I usually attempt to AP at around 3 pm. if i try to do it after i wake up i don't move or open my eyes and nothing happens, then i get in a different position and relax and do some technique but nothing ever happens, if i wake up at about 4am i get up for about 40 min and then go back to bed relax and then i just instantly fall asleep. the only time when i get any results its around 3pm. when do you AP ?
Mainly after midnight.. .before I go to sleep.
Sometimes in the morning after I wake up.
Sometimes at lunchtime at work when I can find quiet space.
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 17:04:20
Mainly after midnight.. .before I go to sleep.
how can you stay awake ? any tips ?
I have a short nap a few hours before for about 30 mins.
Quote from: M4RT1N on November 16, 2012, 17:23:23
how can you stay awake ? any tips ?
Solely by a focused will and determination! :-)
What Lionheart said is very true. I would like to say it is not a good idea to try to ap if you had not had any sleep. If you are tired to start with it makes it a lot harder to concentrate and to stay awake.
It is preferable if you do not ap in bed as we are conditioned to sleep when we are in bed.
It is a good idea not to get too comfortable otherwise you have a higher chance of falling asleep.
You must believe you can ap. You may think what has that got to do with it. If you do not believe that you will ap you will not concentrate that well and you are likely to fall asleep. That happens to me. I loose confidence and I think I am not going to ap. I do not concentrate and I fall asleep. I fell asleep this morning. When I keep saying to myself I can ap and I can concentrate, I ap a lot more often. Sometimes every morning. You have to believe you can ap and stay focused. If you do all that, it should help you a lot. Do not be discouraged if it does not work straight away. With practice it will work.
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 16, 2012, 20:14:23
I have a short nap a few hours before for about 30 mins.
I'm.trying this tonight actually :-) however I didn't fall asleep during my nap but I feel rested. We will see what happens!
Quote from: AstralCody on November 17, 2012, 03:32:40
I'm.trying this tonight actually :-) however I didn't fall asleep during my nap but I feel rested. We will see what happens!
This can work also. :-)
i tried to AP 2 hours ago and now i just woke up WTF ? i got up from bed at 10am today. and i fell asleep after about 10 min of trying to AP. i didn't even do much today so i wasn't tired. :x
Quote from: M4RT1N on November 17, 2012, 12:27:47
i tried to AP 2 hours ago and now i just woke up WTF ? i got up from bed at 10am today. and i fell asleep after about 10 min of trying to AP. i didn't even do much today so i wasn't tired. :x
Martin, it seems to me you are reading what we are saying, but not understanding it. When you put a focused will and determination into a project you do achieve it, failure is not an option. You don't allow yourself to fall asleep. Unfortuantely, that's as simple and plain as I can explain it. No tips, nothing like that. You just don't ALLOW yourself to fall asleep. I am not tryng to be harsh, just truthful! :-)
Quote from: Lionheart on November 17, 2012, 12:44:19
Martin, it seems to me you are reading what we are saying, but not understanding it. When you put a focused will and determination into a project you do achieve it, failure is not an option. You don't allow yourself to fall asleep. Unfortuantely, that's as simple and plain as I can explain it. No tips, nothing like that. You just don't ALLOW yourself to fall asleep. I am not tryng to be harsh, just truthful! :-)
but how can i completely mentally relax if i keep not letting myself to not fall asleep. what do you concentrate on ?
Give yourself a task... some sort of passive but mental task that requires you to cut out conscious noise but maintains focus.
Some use a visual task.. like noticing images or actively trying to visualise a simple object like an apple...etc
Some use a tactile task... like trying to feel an imagined object in the hand...
Some use auditory task.. like repeating a mantra...
When you find your mind beginning to wander off... you return your focus to the 'task'... when it wanders off again... bring it back. it is usually the re-tasking that flips your awareness over to the nonphysical.
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 17, 2012, 17:03:54
Give yourself a task... some sort of passive but mental task that requires you to cut out conscious noise but maintains focus.
Some use a visual task.. like noticing images or actively trying to visualise a simple object like an apple...etc
Some use a tactile task... like trying to feel an imagined object in the hand...
Some use auditory task.. like repeating a mantra...
When you find your mind beginning to wander off... you return your focus to the 'task'... when it wanders off again... bring it back. it is usually the re-tasking that flips your awareness over to the nonphysical.
hmmm i will try a mantra tonight ill probably use "mind awake, body asleep" again any better ones you know ?
No... not at all
The noise, name, word or phrase you use is completely unimportant... as long as it's something that helps you keep focus on the task. It could be "cheescake and rye" if you wanted... or "floppy goose" it really doesn't matter. :-)
Just to be clear... you are to imagine the sound... not actually say it aloud. You repeat it clearly in your mind.
Quote from: M4RT1N on November 17, 2012, 17:56:02
hmmm i will try a mantra tonight ill probably use "mind awake, body asleep" again any better ones you know ?
How about this one, "I am AWARE". You can try to visualize the letters too as fading into the darkness behind your eyelids. You could also try to create a visual of a sport or hobby. Lately i have been using the a "Yo-Yo". It's actually a great visual aide. Start with just the yo-yo in front of you, then watch as it goes up and down. Feel your etheric hand as it tenses and loosens due to the action of the yo-yo. Then get creative and try some tricks. Don't think about what you are doing, just do it. Pretty soon you will start to sense a shift and find that "you are not in Kansas anymore"! :-)
Ok i will try the I am AWARE mantra right now.
i tried it for about an hour, i just felt very numb, i was completely relaxed, i even meditated before doing it, don't know what i did wrong
Good luck M4RT1N. I was in the same boat as you a while back. Trying to find techniques etc... Once you do this often you will find these experiences kind of start coming to you naturally. Everyone here has already given great advice. Good luck!
Cody do you use a mantra ?
Martin... The mantra idea was a suggestion not a recommendation.
You didn't do anything wrong... there is no wrong. You either succeed or you don't. not succeeding isn't 'wrong'.
Look at it this way... If you couldn't draw and you were given advice on how to draw. given techniques and methods... the best tools and paper... the way to look at an object and draw what you see. Then you went away and 'had a go' at drawing a picture but weren't satisfied with the results... you wouldn't come back and say "What did I do Wrong?"... you would surely know that you maybe had to practice drawing using the information you were given. Persevere using the information provided... don't just give us blow by blow attempts. That will get you nowhere.
This isn't like most things that are handed to us.. this isn't something you can get by simply wanting it and downloading it.
You need to practice and stick to one thing.. not just try it once then move onto the next method.
Do you see what I/we are saying? :)
yer i guess i'll keep practising. i've been practising for about 4 months and i still cant do it, i think it's just because i can't find time to do it, and if i do it before going to sleep i just keep falling asleep, ill try to AP on the floor.
Good luck my friend. Even you could try putting some pillows in your back, so you are kind of sitting down in your bed. That keeps me awake.
Quote from: M4RT1N on November 18, 2012, 12:04:26
yer i guess i'll keep practising. i've been practising for about 4 months and i still cant do it, i think it's just because i can't find time to do it, and if i do it before going to sleep i just keep falling asleep, ill try to AP on the floor.
Yes... you need to give it time. Try more often with less expectation. Maybe you are trying too hard but not often enough.
But more often than not... when people get sick of trying and give up, it suddenly happens. :-D
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 18, 2012, 13:53:49
Yes... you need to give it time. Try more often with less expectation. Maybe you are trying too hard but not often enough.
But more often than not... when people get sick of trying and give up, it suddenly happens. :-D
lol
Quote from: M4RT1N on November 18, 2012, 12:04:26
yer i guess i'll keep practising. i've been practising for about 4 months and i still cant do it, i think it's just because i can't find time to do it, and if i do it before going to sleep i just keep falling asleep, ill try to AP on the floor.
I would advise you not to make yourself extremely uncomfortable as that can prevent you from aping. I lie on a very thin mattress on the floor and that is not very comfortable. I still have to concentrate not to fall asleep. I always get some sleep first. If I get myself more uncomfortable I do not ap. All you can do is try things and see what works for you. Perhaps it will work for you. I try different things and I alter things as it is not the best for me.
Quote from: Astralsuzy on November 18, 2012, 14:57:24
I would advise you not to make yourself extremely uncomfortable as that can prevent you from aping. I lie on a very thin mattress on the floor and that is not very comfortable. I still have to concentrate not to fall asleep. I always get some sleep first. If I get myself more uncomfortable I do not ap. All you can do is try things and see what works for you. Perhaps it will work for you. I try different things and I alter things as it is not the best for me.
ok thanks i'll try different positions to AP, tonight i'll put some pillows under my back like Anonymouse suggested. also i dont have any thin mattresses so ill try using a blanket instead :-D
I AP in the morning. I wake up, perform a technique if I haven't moved and I can exit my body within seconds. It's that easy. Of course, it doesn't always happen but there is so little effort, unlike trying to AP from a direct technique (from totally awake ->relax and AP). Indirect mornging techniques rule!
Quote from: LoLmart on November 19, 2012, 10:10:07
I AP in the morning. I wake up, perform a technique if I haven't moved and I can exit my body within seconds. It's that easy. Of course, it doesn't always happen but there is so little effort, unlike trying to AP from a direct technique (from totally awake ->relax and AP). Indirect mornging techniques rule!
I agree the only few times I got to that strong vibrational state was right I woke up, not moving nor opening my physical eyes. I couldn't ignore the vibrations but that is another matter :roll:
Quote from: LoLmart on November 19, 2012, 10:10:07
I AP in the morning. I wake up, perform a technique if I haven't moved and I can exit my body within seconds. It's that easy. Of course, it doesn't always happen but there is so little effort, unlike trying to AP from a direct technique (from totally awake ->relax and AP). Indirect mornging techniques rule!
when i wake up and don't open my eyes or move i never get SP, i tried it about 5 times and nothing. and also when i get in a different position after waking up and do a technique nothing ever happens, no numbness no weird sensation like i get when i do it any other time i do it.
Martin what helps me to stay awake and it helps enormously. During the day, I say to myself I can concentrate and ap. It really works. If I did not do that I would probably fall asleep a lot more often. I ap nearly every morning when I make an effort. By saying that it stays in the mind. It is important to say you can ap as well otherwise you think it is not going to happen and you fall asleep. That is how it is for me.
Quote from: Astralsuzy on November 19, 2012, 16:42:21
Martin what helps me to stay awake and it helps enormously. During the day, I say to myself I can concentrate and ap. It really works. If I did not do that I would probably fall asleep a lot more often. I ap nearly every morning when I make an effort. By saying that it stays in the mind. It is important to say you can ap as well otherwise you think it is not going to happen and you fall asleep. That is how it is for me.
thanks i'll do that, does it matter if i say it in my head or say it out loud ?
It does not matter how you say it, whether it is allowed or in your mind. I say it allowed when people are not around and other times I say it in my mind. It is something you have to keep saying from time to time every day. If I do not do that I fall asleep. The next day I say it when I can and when I try to ap the next morning, I ap. Try not to get discouraged if you do fall asleep. Keep saying it. You have nothing to loose. It works for me.
Lay on the floor... don't lay on the floor... use a mattress... don't use a mattress... create and image... don't create an image... say it in your head.... don't say it in your head... say this... say that... AP in the morning... AP at night... AP in the middles of the night... expect... don't expect...
Does anyone see something here?
I'm so glad I discovered OOBEs by myself sometimes. :-D
If you can ap in a comfortable bed then that is good for you. If you are unable to ap or cannot ap very often then it is a good idea to try different things to make it work. What I do works for me so I will keep on doing it. I used to be able to ap a lot in bed but I can only ap in bed occasionally.
Tom Campbell says it is a good thing to meditate/Phase in every position, circumstance, different time of day, different locations etc. Otherwise you will find that you can only do this in a certain position, at a certain time, only in a certain location, etc.
The only important thing is that you shift. How you do it is up to you! :-)
I agree with that Lionheart. That is what I am aiming to do. I want to be able to ap at different times of the day. I have not found a good way or I have not made the effort to try a different time. Tonight I might do that. I have been wanting to try to ap in the recliner chair but I keep making excuses. I hope I will try tonight. If I am successful I let you know. That may be an incentive for me to try.
I have been trying to vary it up, but I've had the most luck in the mornings after waking up in my bed.
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 19, 2012, 18:36:23
I'm so glad I discovered OOBEs by myself sometimes. :-D
lucky you :lol:
Well I didn't have the internet... it was the middle of the 80s. lol
I wasn't particularly lucky because I spent the first six months 'suffering' RISP and was put on beta blockers by my doctor... I started to miss schoolwork and I spent most of my school-life feeling completely alienated... that's why I said 'sometimes'. :-)
I also worked hard to practice it once I realised what it was... whatever 'it' was.
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 20, 2012, 10:47:29
Well I didn't have the internet... it was the middle of the 80s. lol
I wasn't particularly lucky because I spent the first six months 'suffering' RISP and was put on beta blockers by my doctor... I started to miss schoolwork and I spent most of my school-life feeling completely alienated... that's why I said 'sometimes'. :-)
I also worked hard to practice it once I realised what it was... whatever 'it' was.
:-o do you know why you got RISP ?
Yes...
At around 10 I had an illness.. I think it was a bad case of influenza. During the fever I had these really nasty looping dreams... You've probably experienced them... sometimes they are called 'geometric dreams'... I call them Miacrogogic (micro and macro)... meaning that there is an abstract sense of tiny and massive simultaneously. Everything is contracting and expanding.
Anyway.. these caused me to have really bad dreams. Over a course of a few months I got into the bad habit of going to bed later and later... basically I was too scared to sleep incase I had these dreams. The problem was I was having to get up for school... So I was getting more tired as time went along.
It wasn't until I started falling asleep when I came home from school - generally after dinner and childrens TV... about 6pm. My mother would generally wake me up and I would go to bed and get Sleep Paralysis.
I didn't figure out that the sleep pattern was responsible after my first few separations, when I wanted to get it. :-D
I knew I could replicate it by going to bed late... getting up early... going to school/college/work... coming home and having something to eat... then having a nap for about an hour or so. Then I would wake up and wait till about midnight or later then go to bed. The moment I turned my light off and got comfortable I would instantly switch into SP.
I found out later that Narcoleptics commonly suffer from SP at night because they (accidentally) nap in the evening.
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 20, 2012, 11:39:06
Yes...
At around 10 I had an illness.. I think it was a bad case of influenza. During the fever I had these really nasty looping dreams... You've probably experienced them... sometimes they are called 'geometric dreams'... I call them Miacrogogic (micro and macro)... meaning that there is an abstract sense of tiny and massive simultaneously. Everything is contracting and expanding.
Anyway.. these caused me to have really bad dreams. Over a course of a few months I got into the bad habit of going to bed later and later... basically I was too scared to sleep incase I had these dreams. The problem was I was having to get up for school... So I was getting more tired as time went along.
It wasn't until I started falling asleep when I came home from school - generally after dinner and childrens TV... about 6pm. My mother would generally wake me up and I would go to bed and get Sleep Paralysis.
I didn't figure out that the sleep pattern was responsible after my first few separations, when I wanted to get it. :-D
I knew I could replicate it by going to bed late... getting up early... going to school/college/work... coming home and having something to eat... then having a nap for about an hour or so. Then I would wake up and wait till about midnight or later then go to bed. The moment I turned my light off and got comfortable I would instantly switch into SP.
I found out later that Narcoleptics commonly suffer from SP at night because they (accidentally) nap in the evening.
interesting story, you're still very lucky you got SP without even trying , i think ill go to sleep very late and wake up very early now, is the nap necessary ?
Quote from: Bedeekin on November 19, 2012, 18:36:23
Lay on the floor... don't lay on the floor... use a mattress... don't use a mattress... create and image... don't create an image... say it in your head.... don't say it in your head... say this... say that... AP in the morning... AP at night... AP in the middles of the night... expect... don't expect...
Does anyone see something here?
I'm so glad I discovered OOBEs by myself sometimes. :-D
I agree - it's tricky figuring this out, there are so many tips and styles, and so many people doing different things claiming success. I think in the end everyone has to discover it by themselves. You can get tips and tricks - what to do, what not to do - but you really have to just practice and put in work. Just do it, and do it, and do it. Make it a part of your life, whether it's strictly meditating or only classic OBE attempts.
Maybe everyone is different in what they need. I know for a fact that I need heavy discipline. If I wasn't hard on myself and didn't take it 100% seriously, I wouldn't get far (keep in mind AP never came naturally to me). As I get older, the more disciplined I become, and the discipline definitely pays off. But some people would completely crack under my regimen and might do better off with a more free-flow style... I really don't know, that's why I say just get motivated to practice. Don't know what you're doing?... then sit still and don't do anything other than "observe". I'm convinced that anyone can take that one tip and eventually figure it all out on their own with no further assistance.
As far as what time I practice: In the morning between 7-8 am, and in the evening around 5-6 pm.
Hey Bedeekin,
While this tiny and massive thing was playing in your mind. Did you ever get a series of flowing straight lines that messed up like a ball of unwound string an you somehow had to undo the mess to keep the flowing lines in order?
You reminded me of the times of persistent nightmares.
All,
We are individuals and have to find what works best through experience, individually. Follow a general guide and apply what suits you.
Like bedeekin I was on my own. Maybe learning the hard way has its merits.
At present I try before sleep, this is where I started when very young. Mornings are really unsuccessful.
Ha... it is the same yet different. These can be abstract. The one I had was like looking at a vast lattice work that I had to align with another distant latticework. Another was I was in the palm of my hand in the palm of my hand in the palm of my hand... etc
All had a 'task' to complete that was just not attainable.
I have found that many people have had the Miacrogogic dream.. and normally when in a fever... they are sometimes called fever dreams or geometric dreams. Also the majority of people experience SP because they had a prior nap.. .with very few rare exceptions.
True we are all individuals... but we are also wired in the same way. The method i derived from this sleep routine worked every time on anyone who wished to learn... until I came onto forums. Then it sort of lost its usage... I wonder why this is... Strange eh? :roll:
I've had terrible dreams like what when really sick... They're too horrible... I couldn't imagine having them every night.
I saw it brought up that staying up/waking up early can work... But if you are looking for tips, I don't know. I would probably not sacrifice health for the chance to get more experiences going. I'm sure there's healthier ways to experiment. :/
Just my two cents.
When the times right
Quote from: ChopstickFox on November 20, 2012, 20:45:06
I saw it brought up that staying up/waking up early can work... But if you are looking for tips, I don't know. I would probably not sacrifice health for the chance to get more experiences going. I'm sure there's healthier ways to experiment. :/
Just my two cents.
This was just when I was a little kid... and it wasn't on purpose. Later I didn't need to deprive myself of sleep to be able to nap. Also... this was MY method and did me no harm health wise I'm sure. :-)
Although in hindsight... it was probably healthier than using pills or supplements to explore.
Oh! That wasn't directed at you! It was more for people looking around for tips for an easier way for success! I'm sorry!
Actually I directed it at myself. :-)
I'm sure I had more to my message that went on to say that my early method to others said to go to bed late and wake up early... then "although in hindsight... " hmmm
I must have deleted that sentence for some reason... maybe double clicked it and pressed return... I dunno.
You were right anyway is what I was trying to say but failed. lol
Unless I am very tired, it happens at night when I go to bed at 11pm. I haven't done it a lot and it only happened once in the morning and I was not successful at APing yet when taking a nap at noon in a chair... thought I remember this summer, I saw a little red card going by my field of vision as I was napping at work... that was funny. I think if I practice more, I will be able to do it night, morning, anytime!