All most got it ?

[Jake]

So i fall asleep at 9:30 wake up at 2:30 fall back asleep at 4:15 flat on my back, i begin to feel paralysis and a vibe in my head when i noticed im lucid dreaming. When i was lucid dreaming i saw a pink and blue flashing ufo in my back yard i got scared and notice the vibe and i had lucid dreams of a ap, does ap look real or does it look like a dream and does the con actually leave the body??? Plus can ets be in ap planes?

[ThaomasOfGrey]

So i fall asleep at 9:30 wake up at 2:30 fall back asleep at 4:15 flat on my back, i begin to feel paralysis and a vibe in my head when i noticed im lucid dreaming. When i was lucid dreaming i saw a pink and blue flashing ufo in my back yard i got scared and notice the vibe and i had lucid dreams of a ap, does ap look real or does it look like a dream and does the con actually leave the body??? Plus can ets be in ap planes?

The fidelity of the experience you have is associated with the level of awareness you have I believe. You could say that a lucid dream and astral projection are the same thing, but experienced at different levels of awareness.

I have lucid dreams most nights, I am aware of who I am and what I am doing, and they are usually first person perspective dreams, however, I am yet to break out of the construct of the dream. With awareness one tier higher one could convert the lucid dream experience into a more vivid astral projection experience.

I benchmark myself for an astral projection when my mental alacrity during the "dream" experience is equal or similar to waking consciousness levels.

I am not sure what you mean by "con". Perhaps you are referring to a connection with the body. I wouldn't worry about leaving your body. There is nothing happening to you that doesn't happen during normal sleep. I believe that all conscious beings can exist in the astral planes, including aliens.

[Lumaza]

The fidelity of the experience you have is associated with the level of awareness you have I believe. You could say that a lucid dream and astral projection are the same thing, but experienced at different levels of awareness.

I have lucid dreams most nights, I am aware of who I am and what I am doing, and they are usually first person perspective dreams, however, I am yet to break out of the construct of the dream. With awareness one tier higher one could convert the lucid dream experience into a more vivid astral projection experience.

I benchmark myself for an astral projection when my mental alacrity during the "dream" experience is equal or similar to waking consciousness levels.

I experience the exact same thing! I have LDs of various awareness levels almost every night. But, I don't qualify them as a projection until the vividness of the experience mirrors this waking reality and I have total 100% control of "my" actions.

Many times I become aware while "watching" the scene at hand. I don't consider it a projection until I am a active participant.

I especially liked this line "I benchmark myself for an astral projection when my mental alacrity during the "dream" experience is equal or similar to waking consciousness levels. Spot on my friend! 

[floriferous]

I kind of disagree with you guys. Personally, I feel that judging an experience based on the five senses is very much a physical world hang up. I've had some of my most meaningful experiences which were purely emotionally and mentally based.

I know it's not exactly what you guys said. You talk about whether it's astral projection rather than an important experience but I get the impression you're devaluing your lucid dreams. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you get nothing out of your lucid dreams but isn't that mindset a guarantee you never will?

[Xanth]

I agree with floriferous. 
I think most people here know my views of "astral projection" and "lucid dreams"... I view them as not objectively existing anyway.
They're just different levels of awareness you have while you're experiencing the non-physical.

I have had many great lucid awareness experiences, where I'm aware I'm non-physical but I'm still kind of going along with the flow of the experience... and I've had many great astral awareness experiences, where I'm as awake and aware about myself as I am right now able to do whatever I want.  There is amazing value in all ranges of awareness you can attain in the non-physical. 

The same holds true even in this physical reality where your awareness can move between fully awake and alert to any other state, and yet all of those states still provide some kind of meaningful experience.  Y'know, unless you're so drunk out of your mind you end up having a LESS THAN dream awareness experience here.  LOL  That happens. 

[Lumaza]

I know it's not exactly what you guys said. You talk about whether it's astral projection rather than an important experience but I get the impression you're devaluing your lucid dreams. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you get nothing out of your lucid dreams but isn't that mindset a guarantee you never will?

How do you get the sense that we are devaluing our LDs? Nobody said that it wasn't a important experience. I guess I should have used the term "successful" or maybe "full blown". How do you figure we don't get anything from our LDs?

Over the last 4 years I have filled 4 Dream Journal logs and am now working on my 5th. I log those experiences that fall under the perimeter of totally vivid with a sense of control. I also log the "downloads/uploads", (whatever you want to call them) that I receive. I log visits to energy realms and anything that is emotionally or mentally based. It doesn't always have to do with the 5 senses, because there are many places/realms that don't qualify with the 5 senses. These are projections whereas I am a point of singular consciousness. In these I am not thinking from a physical rule set state of mind.

Now let's look at phasing. When I begin to phase I see a scene. I haven't joined the scene yet. At this point I am viewing it like one views a movie. I don't consider it a successful full blown projection until I join the scene as a active participant whether I am using the 5 senses or just a point of consciousness. I have separate logs for my conscious AP attempts. But, I find the exact same patterns with AP that I do in LDs. In both of them I am consciously aware and a active participant. With Phasing I am consciously aware the entire time. Unless I have a brief "click out". With LDs I have to gain the awareness. This means I have to go through the disoriented stage first. Then "grasp" my awareness.

So yes they have many similarities. They also have their own pros and cons. With LDs you are skipping all of the preparation that a conscious Phase session may take. You aren't experiencing any of the "sign posts" either. But with a conscious Phase you don't have to fight for your awareness. You skip the reorienting stage. You are normally aware through the entire process.

 

[floriferous]

No worries, my friend. I did say maybe I'm wrong in my assumption of your words. We can only all speak of our own experiences. And ultimately the only person we need to convince is ourselves. You don't need to justify yourself. I know who you are 

I think the problem with this whole topic of discussing consciousness exploration in forums is we are all battling to make the subjective objective as peoples unique experiences create divergent paradigms. And I don't think any two will be the same.

[Lumaza]

I think the problem with this whole topic of discussing consciousness exploration in forums is we are all battling to make the subjective objective as peoples unique experiences create divergent paradigms. And I don't think any two will be the same.

That hit the nail on the head there. Trying to explain the unexplainable in simple terms. All we have is our own perception of the events.

I have changed my opinion due to the fact that somewhere along the line I started to weed out my experiences into classes. This came as I started to garner more and more experiences. Even in my Journals now I only log the events that really challenge me either mentally, physically, emotionally or spiritually.  The rest kind of fall under a been there done that frame of thought.

I do find though that many of my LDs seem to follow patterns. Patterns such as living the life of "fork in the road" from my past or even living a parallel life whereas I can see a continuation of a previous area, happening or peoples/entities. Then there is the experiences that words alone can't explain.

[EscapeVelocity]

As I proceed in Life, I find newer sets of experiences, especially those involving the Non-Physical.

I have to create new categories in which to place them...most fit into earlier groups...others are still waiting; they require other experiences to help explain them or to help place them into previous categories, or I am forced to create new ones.

All I have is my own interpretation of the events...to paraphrase my friend...

I am running into more unexplainable experiences than I have categories...it is a beautiful kind of frustration and wonder...