I suspect many people are caught in this "catch 22" situation. Those in your position would believe it, if only they could perceive it. Problem is, non-physical reality works the other way around: in that your ability to perceive is directly proportional to your willingness to believe.
On the Physical, most of us upon hearing something that sounded a bit far-fetched would say something like, "Okay, I'll believe it when I see it." This is because, basically, within the Physical realm, seeing is believing. However, people who apply this same logic when attempting to deal with non-physical realms will very soon run into difficulty.
I think it's not your mind struggling to grasp the concept. Your mind will be very familiar with non-physical realms as that is where it normally "lives". It's the ego aspect of your personality that is causing you to be opinionated and analytical about the whole process. Such skills can come in mighty handy when dealing with Physical-realm matters. But can act as a big spoke in the works when approaching topics to do with the non-physical.
Initially, the symptoms you get which indicate your progress are very subtle. Which means they are ever so easily explained away. This tends to push you that much further away from your end-goal each time.
It sounds, from what you say, your ego has set out all the terms and conditions in advance and concluded that this Physical reality is the only reality in existence. Now, in its quest to finally prove it to you, once and for all, it has set-up a virtually impossible to perform "test". A test which, on the surface, would sound very straightforward and logical to most normal people. However, from the point of view of someone with experience of non-physical reality, as I say, it would be next to impossible to perform.
About your living in a sterile world, and so forth: I always say people who think once you die that's it, are in for a mighty big surprise. :)
Yours,
Frank
I did not quite get the reason for this being impossible, as I have indeed heard of such experiments before. As an example, the gnostic movement has done this kind of research before, and they came out positive. This experiment was made like this: Students were in a room, and a wall/cover was placed there as well. Behind this wall/cover a thing they were to read(do not remember what they were supposed to find). Students projected there and came back with positive results, exact results. The same thing happened when they put this note in the next room, adn the students projected there. What makes this a fraud?
If you would care to explain a bit further I would be MOST thankful.
Best regards,
TruthSeeker
"The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step."- Lao Tzu
I believe Frank just explained partly the not rare (emotional) prejudice of the supposedly most rational people - the scientific community - towards multidimensional phenomena. Human nature (ego) has a tendency of avoiding change and the progression related to it. The well know behaviour of the church men when they refused to look through Galileous telescope is common even today - and not least on a personal level.
However, in my view the fortunate paradox in this, is that once a scientific - minded person resolves for himself this (false) contradiction between multidimensionality and rationality, he/she will soon make greater progression than those who accepted OBE as an real phenomena immediately after their first experience.
Am I alone in this perception?
Daniel
I just don't see why it would be impossible. I mean, my perceptions should have no impact on somebody else's abilities in the OBE world, should they? I read all the time about tests people do with themselves where they leave a card out, then try and read it when they are OB. What would make it so much more difficult to read a card that somebody else left out instead? Is it the fact that you need to know exactly where it is? What is it? (I'm not doubting you here, I'm just honestly wanting to learn more about this, and the reasonings behind it).
quote:
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I did not quite get the reason for this being impossible, as I have indeed heard of such experiments before. As an example, the gnostic movement has done this kind of research before, and they came out positive. This experiment was made like this: Students were in a room, and a wall/cover was placed there as well. Behind this wall/cover a thing they were to read(do not remember what they were supposed to find). Students projected there and came back with positive results, exact results. The same thing happened when they put this note in the next room, adn the students projected there. What makes this a fraud?
To point out an obvious difference.. grendel lives where and in that example you're talking about the next room?
here are my few thoughts on the matter which probably no one cares to read.. anyway.
1.) to get to a location like Grendals house would require that you know where his house is. Not only in such and such country but how to get there. By the time you get there due to the amount of time you have in the RTZ before reality fluctuations start kicking in it would be very difficult to read a card. Plus how would you travel there. People say you can transport to this or that location by thinking about it but thats more in the astral. The chances of it being a real Real time zone type of place are slim.
It amazes me someone's talking about the next room vs a person in another state or country as if its the same thing
2) On my next projection the last thing ill be interested in doing is projecting to Grendel's house. No big offense to you Grendel but why would anyone here have to prove it to you? If i projected every day maybe I'd say sure.. ill go prove this to Grendel so he knows for sure. I mean after all I owe it to you.
It just strikes me as a little weird to tell people here you'd like for someone to prove it to you. Go read books on it and if you dont think the people are credible thats fine. But either way this type of proof will probably not convince you anyway even if someone spend their time in a much worked for projection to help show you its possible.
A lot of people here have mathematical or scientific minds in the physical. That doesnt make you different from a lot of the people who study this type of thing. The whole purpose of science was trying to explain phenomenon that people didnt understand. The problem is so many people close themselves off to other possibilities. This isn't a problem of being too "rational and scientific". Its the same thing the majority of humans face out there. If its not in their reality they dont believe it.
quote:
Originally posted by Grendel
I just don't see why it would be impossible.
Okay, you say:
quote:
For example : If I helped people get a general idea of where I am (Not a street address, I only want to be visited astrally, thank you.), could they go to me, and read one word on a card that I put out?
Let's forget we are dealing with the Astral and all its attendent complications. Let's just deal with the Physical. A realm we are both entirely familiar with.
I live in Surrey, England. That then gives you a general idea of where I am. On my desk in my study are several objects. You will be able to see them from the window. Describe them for me please.
Yours,
Frank
Perhaps, Grendal, you would find Robert Monroe's books on OOBE's suited to your scientific mind. While I've not yet read them myself, another authour, Robert Peterson, says he found the approach invaluable to him as his mind also worked in a scientific, analytical manner, and such is the approach taken by Monroe.
Hmm, Monroe, Peterson, Bruce; Maybe I'll change my name to Robert and see if I find success easier [:)]
Take care
Parmenion
Woah, easy there guys, no need to get uptight about this.
Goingslow Wrote :
>No big offense to you Grendel but why would anyone here have to
prove it to you?
AND
>It just strikes me as a little weird to tell people here you'd like for someone to prove it to you.
Nobody here has to prove anything to me. I'm not demanding anything at all. I'm sorry if it came across as such.
Frank Wrote :
>I live in Surrey, England. That then gives you a general idea of where I am. On my desk in my study are several objects. You will be able to see them from the window. Describe them for me please
I wasn't expecting anybody to be able to do anything from the post I had given. After re-reading it, I don't think I ever made that inference either. Hence the prefix "For Example:" I was asking if anybody would be interested in helping me out, and was just giving an example of what I thought would be a possiblity. I was open to any other ideas. My hope was that there would be somebody here who would respond with something besides a hostile and/or belittling post.
Goingslow Also Wrote :
>But either way this type of proof will probably not convince you anyway...
What on earth is that determination based on? [V]
Apparently you guys thought I was throwing down some kind of gauntlet, challenging everybody to prove their beliefs to me. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never issued a challenge, I was only asking questions. I gave an EXAMPLE of what maybe somebody could try.
Grendel Wrote :
"Is there anybody here who could help me? I'm willing to try everything I can on my end to make this work."
I really fail to see where I miscommunicated my intentions on this. I'm sorry I upset so many people with a seemingly innocuous posting.
At the risk of angering people even more, I'll try and clarify my point :
On second thought, no I won't. I gave it my shot to see if somebody would be willing to work with me and/or help me with this, but apparently that was the wrong thing to do.
Goingslow Also Wrote :
>A lot of people here have mathematical or scientific minds in the physical. That doesnt make you different from a lot of the people who study this type of thing.
Did I ever, at any point, say that it made me different? I never said that you people don't have scientific minds, did I? I was hoping that maybe somebody who also had the same view of the world that I do might have been able to help me understand. Maybe somebody who had to overcome the same kind of hurdles that I'm facing.
I'm sorry that this isn't the appropriate forum for asking for help. My mistake entirely. I truly hope with all my might that you guys are all right (Actually, I guess this is a lose-lose situation for me. If you guys are right, then I'm wrong. If I'm right, and we just blink out when we die, then nobody will ever know). I wish you all the best of luck in your research.
(PS - I am leaving this forum. Any responses for me will not reach their intended target, so save your breath.)
Hi Grendel, I hope you don't decide to give up visiting this forum after reading a couple of responses that might seem unhelpful.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so they say. The only way I've been able to convince myself that astral projection is real, is by giving it a go. After a few successes, I know it is real.
Having said that, I'm not convinced that Real Time projection in the physical world is real. That's just my opinion, based on my experiences to date.
I firmly subscribe to a point that Frank made earlier on :
"...your ability to perceive is directly proportional to your willingness to believe."
Rick Stack has a book called "how to OBE in 30 days" (i think that's the title). The majority of the exercises are about changing your belief systems. To be honest with you, I skipped past them because they looked boring, even though he emphasised time and time again that these are extremely important. However, I didn't have much success so I'm gonna go back and do it by the book !
Maybe you could give it a go too ?
cheers
You don't need to believe in OOBE in order to achieve one. I didn't believe it, but had to when it happened. It pretty much happens exactly when your physical body falls asleep/into trance and your mind stays conscious/regains consciousness. It's easy to say, but a bit harder to induce. This site's free guide got me out of body in 14 days of practice, that's not a lie.
I never tried to verify anything in the "real time zone," since my OOBE's are still short and hard to control, but such an experiment shall be my priority.
Good luck all! : )
Hey Grendel.
I'm willing to try to experiment with you, such as something like Moen does with meeting with people to verify, or practicing together and sharing our experiences. It seems that you've left, so I'll send you a private message.
Take care,
Hey Frank, do you have a round crystal paperweight (globe?) and/or a small pyramid on your desk? Is the window to your right?
If not, no matter, I never said (or ever thought) I was any good at this anyway!
tish
quote:
Originally posted by Tisha
Hey Frank, do you have a round crystal paperweight (globe?) and/or a small pyramid on your desk? Is the window to your right?
If not, no matter, I never said (or ever thought) I was any good at this anyway!
tish
Tisha: A round paperweight, no. But I did, for many years, have a crystal-ball on my desk which I gave to my secretary a couple of years ago. The window is to the left, unfortunately. But you are spot-on with the glass pyramid. It is a small glass pyramid about 5 cm high with an engraving of a horse at the centre. My wife bought it for me, and I now have it in place of the crystal ball.
Yours,
Frank
Kewl!
I also "saw" other little things but I didn't know what they were called so I didn't mention them. Protractor, pendulum, abacus, what-the-heck? I know you're an engineer so I figured my mind probably just made them up, so I didn't mention them. I remember when I was a kid always had a protractor, but I never used it, it just lay around. So now that I'm wondering, do you have old-fashioned engineer "stuff" that no engineer ever uses anymore since now everyone has computer programs? Not necessarily on your desk, but around?
"But either way this type of proof will probably not convince you anyway...
What on earth is that determination based on? "
- I wasnt actually talking about it wouldnt convince YOU as in it would anyone else but not you. I personally dont think that type of vague proof really proves it exists to anyone. I have doubts still on things ive experienced.
The other thing was me saying "it doens't make you different than anyone here". My point was thinking that way doesn't mean you're at odds with believing in OBE's. Its experience vs what yhou believe.
I tend to sound rude sometimes and often I am rude. But in this case what I was trying to convey is its very hard for most here to have OBE's at least in my case it is. One reason I think you wont get proof is most would rather fly around etc than go prove it to one person.
now a group proof thing might be worth it. Like a controlled type of experiment where a few are in on it would help more.
I think its a little rash to decide not to post here because some people's posts come off as rude etc. Most times if a person sticks around to find out what the posters actually meant you'd be surprised.
quote:
Originally posted by Tisha
Kewl!
I also "saw" other little things but I didn't know what they were called so I didn't mention them. Protractor, pendulum, abacus, what-the-heck? I know you're an engineer so I figured my mind probably just made them up, so I didn't mention them.
Yes, I've got all kind of marking out tools. You knowing I am into engineering science would naturally colour your thinking. But I'm impressed with the pyramid. Well, not just it being a pyramid but a glass one. And it is not something you could have gleaned from my posts either.
Want to try again? If so there's a desktop computer at the corner of my desk to my left. It's the box that contains the motherboard/hard disk/DVD player and all that gubbins. On top is an object about 100cm high and around 80cm in width. The object has nothing to do with engineering or science, so as to avoid any thought colouration on your part. Any ideas?
Yours,
Frank
Hi Frank & Tisha !
this might be enough to get Grendel (who started this topic) posting on the forum again !!
regards and good luck,
Mark
*fingers crossed* Lets just hope its enough.
Howdy again - - -
OK now, Frank, I've got performance anxiety. My first flash was that you had something silly and cartoony there, but that just seemed silly and cartoony so forget it - - - I'm not in an OBE state right now anyway. Soo . . . let me think work on it. Or, anyone else want to try?
I was wondering about the globe/pyramid thing and thought . . . well if I were on the Astral instead of the RTZ . . . and the Astral is in the No Time Zone, it would make perfect sense that I would see your old crystal globe and your new crystal pyramid as sort of the same thing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I saw everything that ever appeared on your desk at any given time . . . HAH! No wonder your desk seemed messy [;)]
This is just too much fun, so I'm throwing out a similar challenge to anyone who wants to try it. I live in south central NJ in the U.S.A. In my bedroom, I have an altar. It's not a traditional Wiccan or Druid altar (although it has Wiccan aspects); it's very individualized, and there is nothing in my previous posts that would give its contents away. Anyone care to zoom in on my vibe and describe it?
quote:
Originally posted by Tisha
Howdy again - - -
OK now, Frank, I've got performance anxiety. My first flash was that you had something silly and cartoony there.
Not bad at all. Though silly in terms of the word playful, as opposed to meaning daft. It's one of those wooden russian dolls where you take apart the first, and there is another smaller one inside, and then another ever smaller one inside that, and so on. Each doll has a cartoon-style colour picture of an animal painted on it.
Yours,
Frank
PS
Forgive me for sounding thick, but what's an altar in the context you give?
If you go to a Catholic Church (or any church, most likely) you will see an altar. It's been awhile since I've visited a Catholich church but I would expect that, at a minimum, you would see flowers, candles, maybe incense. If one watches scary satanic movies (I don't) I think one might imagine an altar as the place where sacrifices take place.
But basically, an altar is a place to focus mental energy, usually in a religious context. Most magical practicitoners have an altar somewhere in their home. Candles and incense are usually a given.
regards,
Oh and about the Russian doll - - - interesting! My immediate reaction was "Mr. Peanut" but I wasn't going to say that, no way, so I settled with "silly and cartoony," which I was even embarrassed to suggest, lest I get it wrong. Maybe I was reacting to the shape of the doll. Maybe I was just making it up. Who knows!
All I'm getting from this now is . . . despite what my boyfriend insists,I'm not making things up, I DO pull things out of the ether sometimes, I just don't always get things RIGHT! Which makes sense, because most of the time I'm only half paying attention [:I] Woo-hoo, wacky me.
I think there is a connection between OBE, remote viewing, and psychic ability; the difference is in how we EXPERIENCE a connection with something. Sometimes you feel like you are "going to" something; other times you feel like it's "coming to you," and other times you feel as though you are "viewing something from afar," and then sometimes you feel it was "always with you." Different strokes for different folks . . .
I must say,Tisha, Im impressed.[;)]
Might I ask how you are retrieving this information? Remote viewing, phasing, good old fashioned projecting?
Take care
Parmenion
For these two particular cases I guess I'd call it "remote viewing" or "RV" i.e., I see something from far away, in a flash, like I'm watching a movie. I haven't decided if RV works best while meditating deeply/concentrating on the matter at hand, OR, simplly allowing myself to be distracted by minutae and allowing the "pictures" to flash in (my answers to Frank's post came to me while distracted from some very boring work at the office). I can see the costs and benefits to both approaches, and I've been successful with both, but not with 100% success. In fact, often I've been so wrong as to conclude my successes were just flukes.
RV is related to OBE (which I also do), although I'm not sure how - - - I think my theory on my previous post pretty much sums it up. I think the "magick" of it has to do with CONNECTIONS, not with any "technique." It's all about how Aware you are about how Connected we all are.
Part of the problem with finding "proof" to OBE and psychic phenomena was described very aptly by Frank in an earlier post (in this string). Many folks looking for "proof" approach the OBE question with the presumptions and "common sense" of Newtonian Physics (and other so-called "Laws" we operate under in the day-to-day).
Unfortunately, by insisting that psychic phenomena conform to the laws humans invent in order to operate in the material world, folks will often go away disappointed, convinced that it's all a bunch of crap. However, if one TRULY wants to understand the magic of psychic phenomena, one is better off approaching the question with an understanding of Quantum Physics along with the spiritual understanding of the Connectedness of All Being. Then it all makes sense . . . and it starts to come to you a little bit easier.
Tisha: I changed the object. I know we are speaking in public and all that attendent potential nonsense if you "get it wrong" but who gives a damn. What would you say is the object? It is about the same size as the previous object but with some other object that doesn't quite go.
Tell me, my friend.
Yours,
Frank
Greetings everyone,
Speaking of quantum physics and "connectedness", I have just uploaded to the file libary an excellent 73 page work on these very issue which Fran most kindly brought my attention to:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/file_library.asp?showmethefile=34&thatcat=14&thiscat=E%2DBooks
This is a very modern work, but which is also completely compatible with the ancient Universal wisdoms.
With best regards,
Adrian.
At first I saw nothing, as if you were just messing with me! Then I realized I am so furious with my boyfriend right now that I probably am not too "plugged in." So my task now, UGH, is to calm down, and acknowledge that the selfish characteristics I see in my boyfriend are really "me" and that his character defects are but that part of myself I'm rejecting right now (i.e., selfishness, self-centeredness). Then I will try to meditate on this and later on make a decision on how to transform my relationship with my imagined "other."
So, Frank, after I have COMPLETELY humiliated myself with this personal exercise I will try to find something out about what you've put on your computer, something more descriptive than square/rectangular and black/dark. Good day . . . and anyone else who wants to give it a whirl, go for it, I won't mind!
quote:
So, Frank, after I have COMPLETELY humiliated myself with this personal exercise I will try to find something out about what you've put on your computer, something more descriptive than square/rectangular and black/dark. Good day . . . and anyone else who wants to give it a whirl, go for it, I won't mind!
It was a book, though I did not just select it for its shape (very rectangular). I did not know what was written in the book as my wife had just finished it. When I typed the words about something that didn't quite go I thought I was being slightly "clever" in a sort of testing sense. I did not mean that to come across in the sense that I was "messing" with you in any way. I'm ever so sorry such has appeared to be the case.
Okay, I swapped the book with another object. It's about 11cm deep and about 6cm high... any takers?
Yours,
Frank
Sooooo . . . there was only one (rectangular/square) object, when you implied in your post that there were TWO unrelated objects? . . . more than clever my dear, you were messing, unless you never MEANT to imply what you did [;)] Don't worry - no hard feelings!
So now, I realize that I'm pretty good at this. So stop me before I get a big fat ego. Now, who's checking out my altar?
I never meant to imply two objects. Just the one and a "missing factor". There was one object and a missing aspect that didn't quite go. Not another object. Okay, so I removed that and have a single object on top of my computer for consideration... anyone?
Yours,
Frank
OK, Frank -- in the spirit of FUN (and not because I have any demonstrated ability in this area) here goes: i saw the glass pyramid thing-y at first, then it turned into some sort of bird, maybe a duck. Then I ran a second check, and came up with a round, green ashtray, with little grooves around it, around the rim. Was I a mile off, or two miles? Hopefully Tisha won't read this before she takes a crack at it. I wouldn't want to throw off her perfectly good impressions...
JD
James: Yes, naturally objective here is to have fun. The thread was getting a little heavy for one reason or another. So I, for one, thought a little lightheartedness would be a good thing.
A few observations thus far.
1) I've said many times that I haven't got a mystical bone in my body. So what I'm finding is I'm reacting mentally against Tisha's notion of an object on an "altar". Therefore I wondered, Tisha, if you could place an object on some ordinary table, say.
2) Another difficulty I've found is keeping my mind entirely open, and just somehow allow the neccessary information to come into mind. There is a strong tendency for the creative-fantasy side of my imagination to want to fill the void, so to speak. In Tisha's case, every time I try I just get an impression of two large, lit candles each in a fairly ornate silver holder coupled with a string of beads of some kind.
3) When guessing the object I think it would be easier if, at first, we attempt to identify more the class of the object, rather than go into specific detail.
For example, in your case James, rather than being specific about a bird. If you had taken a step back from this and said, "An animal of some kind" you would have been correct. As it was a small wood carving of a hippopotamus. Okay, purists may argue we are widening the goalposts just to make it easier. But what the heck.
4) Also, to provide some kind of basis, what I have done is folded a sheet of white, A4 paper in half. This I placed on the top of my computer, upon which the object is placed. I wondered if all participants could do this as well so we had some kind of common start point.
Okay, so I placed another object on the paper, any ideas?
Yours,
Frank
is it a small toy car ?
Ok, I've joined in the exercise too. I have an object placed on a folded sheet of white A4, just beneath my monitor. Any ideas ?
Frank, would it make you feel better if I told you that my so-called "altar" is a north-facing bureau drawer, dark walnut in color, with a small decorative mirror, also framed in walnut, attached? You are dead-on about the pair of candlesticks and the beads. They are many strings of fake pearls (symbols of the moon and feminine qualities), hung from the mirror. So don't worry, you are doing great!
But there is more . . . the top of this dresser is filled with meaningful objects. Try again!
quote:
Originally posted by clandestino
is it a small toy car ?
Ok, I've joined in the exercise too. I have an object placed on a folded sheet of white A4, just beneath my monitor. Any ideas ?
I'm sorry, no it is not.
As to your object I just don't know... something red? No, don't say I'll give it another go tomorrow.
Yours,
Frank
And you said you weren't good Tisha..
Do you have any formal training in remote viewing? Or do you just do it like that?
Clandestino and James,
It might be better if you don't do any labelling on what you see. The mind always like to fill in detail making a good result wrong.
Instead of saying a small toy car maybe you should just say that it is something small or shiny or red etc.
And no, this is not my attempt at rv.[:D]
Fair point Terry B.
I think I'll leave it to the experts (like Tisha) !
cheers,
Mark
Clandestino: A small radio?
Yours,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by Tisha
But there is more . . . the top of this dresser is filled with meaningful objects. Try again!
Problem is, now I know what it is I keep thinking of all kinds of objects that may be on there! Whereas before all I kept seeing were these two candles and a string of beads. :)
Yours,
Frank
sorry Frank...
Anyone else have any ideas ??
Hi Frank, Clandestino, and ALL:
The hardest part of RV work is differentiating between what is a good "message" and what is your preconcieved notions of what "ought" to be or what "might" be. (oy, now I'm acting like an expert on RV. I never thought of myself this way before)
Don't downplay your imaginations . . . it is the doorway to the Psychic. Or at least along the path somewhere. Instead, try to wipe out your preconceived notions. If you have a vision, ask yourself, "did I see this just because I thought it OUGHT to be there?" If what you see seems silly and improbable, don't beat yourself up over it. It was probably a vague or slightly mixed-up version of the truth. So fuzz it up a bit, or "widen the goal-posts," as Frank suggested. Think about the characteristics of what you saw and describe that instead.
For instance, one of Frank's more recent contributions to this discussion seemed, to me, as some kind of container. WELL, what I REALLY saw was an aged brass ashtray shaped like a shoe. But was I going to say THAT? No way, it seemed to weird and improbable (Frank, you don't smoke, do you?). So, if I was "plugged in" at that moment and actually on to something real, it might have been an ashtray, a container, a small shoe (6 cm X 11 cm), something shaped like an ashtray or a shoe, something brass that had nothing to do with shoes or ashtrays, something sort of that color that had nothing to do with any of these things, a horseshoe . . . see where I'm going at this?
OR, I might have just been "off" at that moment.
Bringing this down to Real Life, we mix up our real perceptions and our preconceived notions all the time. I'm particularly BAD at this. So I'm working on it. So if YOU, folks, want to get better at RV, practice during your ordinary relationships with people you know. Before reacting to something someone says . . . think, "am I reacting to what he/she is REALLY saying, or am I coloring his/her words with my preconceived notions?" Betcha you'll get in fewer disagreements if you make it a regular practice.
Frank, I'm interested in what you thought was on my dresser. You might simply be downplaying your impressions. Don't judge yourself on your own, let us know!
a stapler?
'Tis an awfull shame that Grendel left when he did. I hope he comes back and see's what a response his topic is recieving.
To join in : Clandestino ~ a toy soldier?
Parmenion
Frank (and Tisha) thanks for the advice. I'm definitely more aware of how eager I am to "categorize" and "particularize" something before I have the impressions to justify it. Having said that, my patience isn't that great either, which leads me to jump in with my latest try at Frank's object: some sort of plant.
James
quote:
Originally posted by James Davis
which leads me to jump in with my latest try at Frank's object: some sort of plant.
James
James: no, sorry.
Clandestino: I got a strong impression this morning it was money.
Yours,
Frank
Tish, can you provide us with some info on how you got into RV and the tehcniques used? Or websites perhaps.... book reccomendations?
Thanks,
Ashfo
Ashfo,
My first inclination was to tell you I didn't get it from a book at all. In fact, I never thought of myself as an expert at this, so I'm hesitant to even give advice. But then I thought . . . well, I've been practicing what I call the "intuitive arts" for many, many years now, with varying intensity, and I HAVE read many books about many topics pertaining to psychic phenomenon. So, it's likely that I picked up a technique or two (or ten) from one or more of those books without really remembering that I did it.
One book I read recently that I like is: Crysal Balls and Crystal Bowls: Tools for Ancient Scrying and Modern Seership, by Ted Andrews, Llewellyn Publications, 1995 (ISBN 1-56718-026-4). The author teaches you how to use things such as crystal balls, bowls of water, candlelight, etc., to "see." Even if you'd rather RV without the use of props (what if you need to find a lost object and you left your crystal ball at home?), the meditation excercises, the theory, the step-by-step guidelines in this book are ALL very good, and I recommend them.
My PERSONAL guidelines are simple, but difficult to ingrain.
1. First, know deep in your heart that it can be done.
2. Then, know deep in your heart that YOU can do it. These two steps are the hardest of all to accept. You'll lose track of them over and over and over again, because
3. Most people in the ordinary world will insist that you're a fool, an idiot, a flake for even thinking it's possible. Choose your friends wisely if you wish to go down this path. You will probably need to create a "sub-reality" within your so-called "ordinary reality" in order to operate to your full potential. Anyone who needs help on this should start a NEW thread (in the metaphysical section, not here) about creating sacred space to do psychic work. I'll be happy to post there.
4. Pay attention to your brain "flashes." Your brain generates tens of thousands of split-second images a day and you ignore most of them. Why? Because most images SEEM like nonsense to us. We live in a go-go-go society, requiring us to respond immediately to things, rather than allowing us to ponder why our math instructor brings up in our heads visions of alarm clocks or peacocks or shoes or whatever. But most of these seemingly inane visions are actually quite symbolic. That is why you need to
5. Slow down. Spend time alone, meditate, take note of your dreams and your visions. Then,
6. Pay attention to those visions! You won't be able to crack the code on all of them, mostly because you won't have time. But know you had those visions for a reason.
7. Don't get frustrated. Allow for some mystery to remain in your life - - - some things you'll never understand!
8. Practice with a sympathetic friend who is also interested in developing this skill (see advice #3).
9. If you get good at RV (or any kind of psychic phenomena) and you begin to pass yourself off as some kind of expert, you will invariably, and often quite publicly, embarrass yourself. So take this all on in the spirit of wonder and fun, and keep your ego in check.
Hope this helps,
Hello there folks, i've just returned from a weekend in sunny Edinburgh...
Frank :
The item in question is a small glass pebble from the Guiness factory...there is a tiny compartment of the black stuff in the middle. Interestingly, it is money ! (of sorts). You use it as currency to get a free pint of guiness at the bar.
Is that an RV success ?
hi Tisha !
do you have any/many friends that you can share these interests with ? For me, I guess its a case of (like you said):
"Most people in the ordinary world will insist that you're a fool, an idiot, a flake for even thinking it's possible."
The friends I discuss it with, are you folks here !
Anyway, i'm off on hols to Oz tomorrow, so see you all soon.
best wishes,
Mark
I have been trying OBE, energy work, etc. for quite a while now. While I've had some interesting experiences, I haven't had anything that even comes close to being OB. I think my problem is that I'm a very logical, scientific person. Mathematics and logic are what I do for a living. So my mind just cannot grasp the concept that any of this is really possible. It's extremely easy to explain away what happens to me, and even if I DID have an OBE, there are too many ways to disprove it in my mind, and it's horribly frustrating to me. [:(]
So what I'm asking is this. Has anybody here ever helped somebody by helping them to prove that it is all real? That everybody here, myself included, isn't just delusional? From what I've read from Robert Bruce, it's pretty much possible to go anywhere and meet anybody. So it should be possible to do something like this, right?
For example : If I helped people get a general idea of where I am (Not a street address, I only want to be visited astrally, thank you.), could they go to me, and read one word on a card that I put out? Or describe my bedroom, or house, or anything at all? If I just had the SLIGHTEST bit of proof that there was something to all of this, it would help me immensely, both in my own practices, as well as mentally (I currently mentally live in a very cold, sterile world where when we die, we die. Something like the proof I'm looking for would blow the lid off my life. In a good way).
Is there anybody here who could help me? I'm willing to try everything I can on my end to make this work. Anybody? [?]