Carlos Casteneda?

[Nick]

goingslow,

Ok, I'm really dating myself, but here goes. I read the first three books of his when I was in college. That is, The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge; A Separate Reality: Further Conversations with Don Juan; and Journey To Ixtlan. All of this was when the books were first published, from 1968 to 1972. They were fascinating reading. I couldn't wait for them to hit paperback or the library, so as soon as each one was published I'd buy the hardback edition and devour it.

That was a many years and many books ago, but I'd still recommend them. Just pick up the very first one (The Teachings of Don Juan) and see what you think. If nothing else, its a good read.

Very best,

[Lasher]

But what do you think the real deal is with him, Nick.
Is he for real?

Lasher?

[PeacefulWarrior]

I have read a few things by him and I find him interesting, but in the end, however, I have come to appreciate authors more like Bruce who are less enigmatic and more down to earth.

I have also found a few things Mr. Casteneda has said to be quite strange if not flat out wrong.  I think he once said that EVERY journey, in or out of the body, is only a journey in one's own mind...I found this to be some what of a turn off because I do believe in an objective reality, even if many OBE's really are inward journeys, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I for one plan on reading more from him at some future time when I don't have so many other things on my "to read" plate.

We should try to find some of his most compelling stuff...exerpts and the like...and post them in this thread and discuss them, I think that would be compelling and fun.

Until next time,

Dan

[Euphoric Sunrise]

I have a very, very soft spot for Mr Castaneda and his books. It was just this last Christmas when i got a book from my cousins and it was the first book of the... series (my cousin's fiance loved them when he was my age). I read it and was amazed so naturally i got the second, and then third and so on. I think i have about 6 in total now, all of which i have read, all of which have left me awe-struck for days after.
Regardless of whether the content is true or not, they are amazing books that really touched me. It's safe to say that if it weren't for me getting that book and appreciating as much as i did, i would not be as in love with the occult as i am today.
An interesting thing to note, though, is that i know five people who have at very least tried reading those books. Three female, two male (including me). Both me and the other male loved the books, the other three (all females for the slow ones) didn't think they were that great. It's probably just a coincidence as i've heard mention of females loving them as much as males, i just thought it was interesting.

[Nick]

Lasher,

Fair question. Short answer is, I don't know. I read the books I mentioned over thirty years ago and at this point only remember them as an entertaining read. There was some controversy over the author sometime later (the 80's?? I'm not sure) as to whether he made Don Juan up. Whether or not that was resolved, and how, who knows? Perhaps someone at the forum can fill us in.

Very best,

[kampersdream]

i've read just about all of his books. in fact his books are what got me interested in all this metaphysical stuff. i only believe a small percentage of what he writes, but they are a very good read. i highly recommend reading them.

[jason]

I've also read most of his works

one thing that struck me was that, yes, there is a lot of stuff that is really strange going on,which Castaneda claimed was all real (debatable),but there is also tons of stuff which,if in fact was made up by the author, is absolutely brilliant writing.all the philosophical truths the books contain which are impossible to debunk-the stuff about losing self importance;the world conforming to subjective perception;death as an ally; tonal (our lives,and the sum of human awareness)vs. nagual (the unknowable/infinite).that is only the tip of the iceberg...

[astralc]

Carlos was an old friend for some years, like all the responders I too loved his books and couldn't wait for the next one. Fact or fantasy? who knows for sure, but what a great way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

Astralc

[goingslow]

Thanks everyone.

Im going to get Monroe's Far Journey's first then I think I'll try reading some of Casteneda's work.  

I also want to try some of Moen's books.  Is it just me or are books becoming pretty expensive?  Maybe i just never bought them as much before.

[goingslow]

I called the local Barnes and Noble asking about Far Journeys and found out its out of print!... so went down to another book store and found Casteneda's "The Teachings of Don Juan" at a very good price. Its one of those smaller books.. with smaller letters etc.  So Im going to read it this week.

[Nick]

goingslow,

You can certainly get a copy of Far Journeys (if you want) from the online website of the Monroe Institute:http://www.monroeinstitute.org/

When you get to the website you'll see a link menu at the near top of the page. Click on the one that says: "Books on Bob".

Very best,

[James S]

From what I understand of Carlos Castaneda, he dealt mostly with the subject astral travel, as Robert Bruce and Robert Monroe, but Castaneda is dealing with it from the point of view of South American shamanism.

What he was taught by tribal shamans is not as easy for us to apply with respect to our lifestyles as Monroe's & Bruce's teachings are.

James.

[goingslow]

I didnt even think about doing that.  thanks nick.

Im going to pace myself on this book now.  Im sick of zooming through them then having nothing to read.  Ever wish you could forget everything you read in Astral Dynamics and Monroes books.. and many other books just so you could read through them again the first time?

But thats a dream. Hey maybe thats another reason we reincarnate.  To experience things for the first time again (seemingly).. (early morning nonsense thoughts)

[Faeona]

Carlos Castaneda was trained in the dreaming tradition.  His early books are quite good because he stayed out of the way of Don Juan's teachings and reported his experiences fairly accurately.  The dreaming tradition probably incorporates what you would call OBE's (although in a slightly different manner, I suspect), but it is not the focus of the tradition.  Awareness is the focus of the tradition--but, again, it is a kind of awareness very different from Western thought.

Fae

[clandestino]

I'm half way through "the second ring of power", never read any of his stuff before, but it is entertaining.

Lasher / Nick - I'm with you, I can't honestly believe that what I've read so far actually happened to him !! it reads too much like a novel. But who knows ?!

[Amber]

I am heavily involved in the whole Casteneda thing, and I have read and reread all his books and the books from the women in his party as well. Iwould never have found astral travel if I hadn't picked up Casteneda's books in highschool. But I have to agree that his books are really inaccessible for women. I would actually recommend the books the women wrote over his if you want to get a better look at what he is really talking about,

The Witches Dream by Florinda Donner Grau,
Being In Dreaming, by Florinda Donner Grau and
The Sorcerors Crossing by Taisha Abelar.

These three titles deal more with dreaming and although they read like novels, there is quite a bit of practical application in them to try out. Especially Taisha's book and Being in Dreaming.

Good luck,
Amber

[Nick]

Amber,

Thanks for posting that information. If you were to recommend one of those three books, which one would you pick? I'd like to start with reading just one. I haven't read Casteneda in many years, but am interested in what these writers you recommend have to say.

Very best,

[Mirador]

Carlos Castaneda was first and foremost an Anthropologist, a social scientist, who focused on a particular culture, the Yaki, and a specific belief system, Mexican shamanism, in order to contribute to the understanding of human nature. Those who seek in Cataneda's work technological pointers on religion or psychic phenomena have missed the point.

Mirador

[Amber]

Nick, my recommendation from the women's books is, Being in Dreaming because it is an excellent read and although it doesn't give direct tips, like mirador pointed out, it does give you a female perspective on shamanism. Secondly, Taisha's book, The Sorcerors Crossing, which does offer interesting meditations and excercises as well as a well written account.

From Casteneda's books, the most helpful one would probably be The Art of Dreaming or The Wheel of Time which is a collection of stories from his life and the easiest to decipher in my opinion.

Good luck and let me know  what you think!
Amber

[Nick]

Amber, thanks for the recommendations. I'm going to order a copy of Being in Dreaming and start with that.  [8D]

Very best,

[goingslow]

I finished reading The Teachings of Don Juan and immediately went out and got A Separate Reality.  I loved the book honestly, not only are they entertaining but I like his "tone".  I think tone is the word.. its just something different from your normal New Age type of book.

I like the cultural differences too and the recognition that many plants have some spiritual value.  Thanks Nick and everyone else for the good advice.

[goingslow]

Amber, I think its interesting what you said about it being inaccesable to women.  Ive noticed with a lot of these "New Age" (for lack of a better word) books they like to treat everyone around them as some type of test or learning tool.  Thats one thing that sort of annoys me.. this "they're there for my enlightenment".  In the case of Casteneda and this other book I read recently they use women in that way.

They pretty much make the claim women are there to entice(sp?) us (assuming right there the audience is male) and move us away from our true path.  I was curious how women reading these books would take that.  I think its one of the most annoying things I find in many books.  People assuming others are there to test them.  Its like its all about "me".  And they outline people's roles according to what effect it has on their own progress.  Anyway thought I'd share what I see as a flaw in a lot of new age thinking since it kinda came up.

[Amber]

Goingslow,
you have an interesting perception about New Age reading material. I honestly haven't read enough of it to be able to say whether I find them generally unfair to women or whether they suggest that the people around you are solely there to use for your evolution or not...

I will say that in Casteneda's books, he doesn't deal with any of the women in the 'sorceric party' until much later in the series, The Second Ring of Power is where a lot of that comes into play. Basically, the books are from a man's perspective, so I never really expected them to contain much useful information for women, our paths are very much different in sorcery.

I have found no reference in his books that suggests women are here only to entice men from their true path or anything to that effect. I havefound plenty of passages in the women's (Taisha Abelar and Florinda Grau) books about how men drain women of their basic creative energy through sex and courtship rituals. And that men 'befog' women through the sex act, in their efforts to 'own' women on an energetic level. They are very much against the social order and a lot of that includes the way us humans deal with the opposite sex.

Sorcerers are concerned with energy, and more specifically, how to cultivate and gather more of it in order to break the boundaries of ordinary perception. So, I believe that the mood of Casteneda's books reflects what he was told, which was to conserve energy by not having sexual relationships in the beginning of his apprenticeship and that warriors do not have the time or energy. So, perhaps that is where you got the impression that his books are actually prejudiced against women...

Wow, I just wrote a novel here...lol
I hope this touches on what you were talking about. I have this strange need to defend his books and teachings, I guess because they completely changed my life. And I never have cared whether they were 'true' accounts or clever fiction, the effect was still fairly devestating...
with much affection,
Amber

[goingslow]

I guess I made it seem as if I thought the only "other" group was women.  I see that as a general theme.. where a character in a group describes the role of someone else or another group in terms of the way in which that person benefits the author.

To say I thought they were unfair to women isnt really what I was saying.  I was hoping for you to elaborate more on what you said about him being inaccesable... btw I know I'm spelling that wrong.

Obviously in my first post I stated I loved the book.. but with anything I look at all the pieces of any book and the perspective from which the author is coming from.  I will find the passages I was refering to, but I do remember Don Juan talking about this issue and stating the role of women.  Not so much as the main crux of the story but as statements put here and there.. for example page 123 of "The teachings of Don Juan".  

This is Don Juan speaking 'The devil's weed is like a woman and like a woman she flatters men.  She sets traps for them at every turn."  
There are many passages where he describes devil's weed as a woman in order to explain its nature to Casteneda.  

Im really not trying to bring up this point on my own.  I was curious why you mentioned it in the first place.  If there's nothing more to say about it on your part there certainly isn't any on my part.  But I was curious what you meant and i guess was trying to do a lead in.  I have taken one too many sociology classes before getting my degree in another field which sort of trained me to be a critical reader.  Other than that I wouldnt have noticed these things either.

[Amber]

goingslow, I see.... I think I misunderstood you then. I know you said you liked the book, I think I picked out the sentences that I wanted to and ignored the rest..conveniently. lol
Yes, I found the books inaccessible as a woman simply because it's from a man's perspective. The steps a woman would take in order to become a sorceror are a lot different than the way a man would approach this path. And the entire time I was reading the books, I would think.."what the hell are they talking about?" I didn't understand the terminology for what he was describing although I liked the 'tone' (as you put it) and it aroused my curiousity. Which is why I went to one of the seminars in the first place, to find out what he was talking about. And then I was hooked! If you were looking for some examples of the differences between men and women in the sorceric tradition...I can tell you some, but I am not sure that was what you were after either.

So, the books outline the entire process of becoming a sorceror...but from a man's perspective. So, that is why they were inaccessible to me. The books are nice reading material, they do give a peek into the warrior's reality and make enjoyable stories to read, but we were told to 'toss them out'. Not to get hung up on them, like the Bible or something. To go out and experience for ourselves and make our own paths to this knowledge. And that is what I am doing.

Amber