catalysts

fredhedd · April 23, 2003, 01:50:21

using substances usually leaves you less in control. when you trip you don't have any control over when it's going to end. if you start to have a bad time and can't control it there is a chance you will end up having the worst time of your life. maybe you've heard of people saying they have had 'bad trips' before. some people take hallucinogens hundreds of times and will never have a bad experience. others will report their experience as being trapped in their version of hell for what feels like a hundred years when in this reality it was only the duration of the trip.

it's recommended that all astral experiences be done w/out the aid of substances because if something goes wrong you can always come right back to the physical. the experience may also be tainted due to whatever was used as a catalyst.

as far as i know there are no physical reasons why you shouldn't use mushrooms to ap. i have researched them quite extensively in the past. http://www.erowid.org/index.shtml this site will provide you w/ more info on the mushrooms and will have tales of other peoples trips. the whole 'bad trip' scene should also be in there somewhere.

as far as i'm concerned those mushrooms are fantastic. if you feel you are stable enough to be alright w/ totally losing control of yourself and having your reality shattered to see what's really here then this is the easiest way to do it. i haven't tripped that many times but those times are responsible for my life as it is now. i probably wouldn't be on any kind of spiritual path if i wasn't ever experienced to hallucinogens. all for the better. have lotsa fun.

Psypunk · April 23, 2003, 11:34:40

Cool, thanks for the info. I have tripped over a hundred times, and never once had a bad one. I think that a lot has to do with the mind set of the person that is tripping. It is almost like on shrooms your level of conciousness and understanding is much higher, which I think is why it helps out with the whole AP thing. I've been having OBE's and AP's long before I ever tripped to, so that might have something to do with it.
I know shrooms alone can not cause brain damage, but I was just wondering if anyone knew if the combination of shrooms and AP could have any negative side effects. So far I hadn't expereinced any, but after reading that they shouldn't be combined, I didn't want to take the chance again until I found out more about it.

I honestly think that mushrooms are a very spiritual substance that is often abused. I have had the most amazingly spiritual experiences with them. It is kind of funny because in Japan shrooms are no big deal. They sell them in stores, but not a whole lot of people do them. It's just a part of everyday life for them, and no problems ever come about because of them. I think that shrooms should be legal in america for those who wish to use them for spiritual development.

Greytraveller · April 23, 2003, 14:59:37

Regarding the use of Magic Mushrooms (or other mind alterants) to induce projection -- I am in basic agreement with FredHedd. The biggest drawback of hallucinogens is the lack of control while being under the influence. However, if you are experienced with mushrooms then this problem can be overcome.
How lucky you are to have those mushrooms be Legal where you live!! Many people will envey you.
If you do have an OBE while using mushrooms then could you post a brief report about your experience here??? I'm sure many people will be quite interested to read about it![

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lateralus897 · April 23, 2003, 20:36:43

Damn, I gotta start saving up for a trip to Japan...

fredhedd · April 23, 2003, 20:41:39

if you guys want to read accounts of peoples trips, go to that site i listed above. i haven't been there in a while but if i remember correctly there should be bunch.

Psypunk · April 23, 2003, 21:09:17

Actually I have had several OBE experiences on shrooms.
"Getting out" of you body seems much easier for some reason. But it is a little harder to stay out. My mind tends to pull me back inside my body every so often. Kind of like it's reminding itself what it is like to be in physical form again. But it isn't hard to "leave" again, once I get pulled back in. Objects aren't as stable either, and tend to change shape (like they do in real life when on shrooms). I almost think that when i am on shrooms I have a differant sort of control over my mind and body. For example, raising energies to my Chakras is much easier (almost effortless). The only time I can see Auras in when on shrooms (I haven't really practiced aura seeing either) I have such control over my mind, and body that when with a partner sexually, I can enter into the tantric state and have orgasms that last about half an hour (which is quite intense). I studied tantra for a while, but the only time I can achieve the highest level is on shrooms. Usually the girls I'm with don't reach the tantric level that I do, but if I coach them a little, their orgasms can last up to 10 to 15 min. Even longer if they are on shrooms as well.
The action is very spiritually and emotionally involving (in my opinion).
I guess I got off topic a little, but oh well.
Amsterdam was very cool to (shrooms are legal there) but it is a little to touristy for me to live there.
I have been to over 27 differant countries, and Japan is definatly one of my favorites.

goingslow · April 24, 2003, 11:41:35

erowid is a great site.

Greytraveller · April 26, 2003, 21:36:49

On erowid I have read reports of people who had out of body experiences on the following substances- LSD, ketamine, DXM, Datura, DMT and ayahuasca (a shaman DMT brew). Oddly enough I have yet to read a report about a projection on mushrooms. So if anyone knows about such an experience then please post a link.
In addition there are many reports by people on hallucinogens who were in an in-between state. Sort of half-spaced-psychedelic and half out of body. This is where people see and interact with all kinds of paranormal creatures like invisible beings (ghosts?) and DMT elves. These experiences are close to being full projections. The reason that they are not full blown OBEs is because the people lack sufficient control to induce the projection!

fredhedd · April 26, 2003, 22:46:10

psypunk, are you sure you had oobe's and you weren't phasing? i only ask because everytime that i've tripped it seemed as though i phased and not oobe'd. though now that i am thinking about it there was one time that it felt like i was about to oobe when i heard a voice that called my name. it scared me back to the physical.

i remember going back to my physical body very quickly once out like you said. most of the trip was like that. it was more of a fear to completely let go or just to make sure that i was still going to be able to get back.

the best orgasms i've ever had were while tripping. i don't know if i can describe it but robert bruces description of astral sex seems familar. it seemed that my whole body was in orgasm.

Fat_Turkey · April 27, 2003, 03:28:31

Correct me if im wrong but, aren't magic mushrooms a depressant? Meaning - they heavily relax the muscle systems? That could greatly enhance OBE - but I think that it still has the risks of just generally taking drugs which could have a long term effect on all things metaphysical.

Later
-FT

Nick · April 27, 2003, 11:29:04

With respect to your question Psypunk, I like what Robert Bruce has to say in his book Astral Dynamics:
"The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out -of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projection. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

If you have the book, the above was taken from pages 373 and 374. He goes into it in more detail on those pages. His reasoning seems to make sense. It may be worth a look to you.

Very best,

Psypunk · April 27, 2003, 17:30:44

I've been having OBE's way before I ever tried shrooms, so yeah, I know when I'm having a OBE and when I'm just phasing.
I understand where you guys are coming from though on why it might not be very safe. I think from now on, I'll keep the two seperate (shrooms and OBE's).

Mirador · April 27, 2003, 19:38:09

catalyst?, better change the heading to 'alchemy', and I can see that none of the post here really know what they're talking about, and to suggest ingesting psychotropic plants is irresponsibility.

Psypunk · April 27, 2003, 20:27:16

Mirador, if no one here has any idea what we are talking about, why don't you enlighten us with your divine wisdom?
Also I never recomended anyone to ever ingest psychotropic plants, I mearly asked a question about them.
Don't be so quick to judge.

Always question your perception.

fredhedd · April 27, 2003, 22:35:04

mirador, you ahve to be kidding. i'm almost convinced of it now. all of your posts have to be meant just to rustle some feathers.

if it's attention you want i guess you are going about it the right way. it's easier to get attention when you aren't saying anything important but instead just saying things that are unintelligent to make people mad and react. maybe a shirt that says 'look at me' would do you some good.

psy, if you've already tripped and think you can handle yourself i don't see any problem w/ what you are doing. some would think what i'm saying is a bit bold but i don't think i should hold back anything because i dont know you and you aren't sitting right next to me. if i saw you somewhere and we were talking face to face i would tell you the same.

you can't control your trip anyway. you know that upon ingesting the stuff. when you try and control it is where things start to get bad. as long as you know you are in for a ride and are ok w/ it, then go w/ it. i always felt that being totally alright w/ losing control put you more in control than you ever could be.

timothy leary wrote some good books on all kinds of psychedelic stuff. if you haven't read them yet, they are recommended. they would maybe make for a better time while you were there.

Hephaestus · April 28, 2003, 15:35:00

Imagine if you will your experience during drug enhanced AP takes you to a hell like place, your body having being taking drugs multiple times breaks down and you enter into a coma, you cant wake up, you're trapped in some type of hell dimension with no escape.

DONT TAKE DRUGS!

Hephaestus · April 28, 2003, 15:36:06

Imagine if you will your experience during drug enhanced AP takes you to a hell like place, your body having being taking drugs multiple times breaks down and you enter into a coma, you cant wake up, you're trapped in some type of hell dimension with no escape.

DONT TAKE DRUGS!

fredhedd · April 29, 2003, 12:58:25

lsd doesn't affect your body, only your mind. there is no 'breaking down'. i am not a doctor and haven't done any extensive research on this stuff but i don't think anyone else here is/has either. i only speak from experience and that's a better place to speak from than anywhere.

you wouldn't have to slip into a coma to become trapped in some place while you were tripping. you get to experience time being an illusion and have the oppurtunity to spend an eternity wherever you like. enough introspection will get you through any one of those 'hellish experiences'. as soon as you find out that what you are trapped in or fearing is actually a part of you and that you produced it, everything is fine.

Psypunk · April 23, 2003, 01:05:04

I live in Japan where magic mushrooms are legal. When I would use them it would greatly enhance my OBE's and AP's. I read somewhere that it isn't good to be on anything when attempting AP. I didn't know this before and did it a great deal (every time with amazing results).
Can anyone tell me why they say that you shouldn't use mushrooms to help with AP?
Is there a possibility of brain damage or something?

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