Chemical enhancements

[TheSeeker]

acid and or shrooms would make a lot happen , but i don't recommend it (specially for the easily frightened), i recommend energy work everyday/meditation everyday.  Weed doesn't do shiznit but make it almost totally impossible to remember any dreams, so I imagine it'd make it near impossible to remember an OBE.

[nstkd8]

I've often wondered how hallucinogenic drugs cause one's perceptions to be altered. They seem to cause a forced dissociation of sorts from one's physical senses. That seems a lot like what happens when we sleep or reach a mind awake/body asleep state. If there was less potential for lasting damage to the physical body I'd like to experiment with some projection exit techniques at various levels of intoxication (by hallucinogens), but so far I'm going to stick to the natural method.

[What Tha Phak]

Me and my friends are going to order some Salvia Divinorum... I'll keep you all posted on my experiences...

to read up on ANY drug... go to www.erowid.org

[PeacefulWarrior]

This topic/question has been discussed in here NUMEROUS times and a great deal of good advice and personal expereinces/knowledge has been shared.  Try using the search engine built into this site (under the FORUM tab which is beneath the Astral Pulse logo in the upper left hand part of the screen).

I would stay away from Salvia Divinorum...it's effects are unpleasant in my opinion.  I agree with the Seeker.  

Any expereince you obtain by using psychotropic plants is usually difficult to control and therefore useless.  I also think it can interfer with the natural process of obtaining these expereinces through meditation and energy work.  

It is also easier to be attacked by negative energetic (spiritual)entities while under the influence.

Finally, I am not saying that all the effects are negative.  There are obviously pleasurable and positive aspects, but I think the negative ones far out weigh any positive effects.

The main thing I have found that these plants and chemicals teach is not to trifle with them.

[Slyder]

What Tha Phak:

Salvia is worth trying, but I don't think it gives the same effect as an OBE. Having said that I haven't had a conscious OBE yet (so talking rubbish?), but salvia seemed to be more about me and my inner mind. Deep down I feel a natural experience will be different to this.

So try Salvia, but don't expect it to take you to far astral lands. And having a stable mind is pretty important too. Have fun

[Slavo]

Are u so weak that u cant learn it by urself?

... this stuff is bovine excrement - it only erases ur mind believe me - anyway EVERYONE can learn to achieve OBE without chemicals, so u also dont need em

[Nick]

I would take a look at pages 373 and 374 of Astral Dynamics. I think what Robert Bruce says makes a lot of sense: "The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projections. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

[nstkd8]

Slavo said, "Are u so weak that u cant learn it by urself?" In response... I sure hope not[], but having only limited success after a couple years is a bit frustrating. Although I firmly believe that the natural way is the best way, I CERTAINLY can't condemn anyone for turning to an apparently easy and sure-fire method of achieving the OBE. All i can say is good luck to all of you... and i hope we all get where we'd like to be.

~nathan

[TheIncarnate]

I dont use any chemical to induce OOBE, but the claim that one is weak for using them to attain one doesnt wash and here's why: For thousands of years shamans have been using mushrooms and various compounds to achieve this state. These men were not "weak", they saw the benefits of using the natural substance to facilitate the experience. All cultures have employed this method, and even nostradamus inhaled nutmeg fumes to start up his visions.

There is a lot of historical precedent for using natural substances. The only thing weak I read is the argument by the guy asking if the other dude was so weak he had to use this method. All that is, is the just-say-no culture based on lies and deceit...like those commercials that say if you buy weed, you're supporting terrorism.

By the way, they yanked those commercials because they were having zero effect.

[Frank]

For numbers of years mankind has been engaged in many things, but that alone doesn't make them right. Though I'm on record as having said that I wouldn't know a Shaman from a hole in the ground. So as nothing has really changed in that regard, I feel unable to make any specific comment.

I just thought it was a strange use of the word, "enhancement" in the thread-title. In my experience, "poor substitute" would be more fitting.

Oh, and I cannot help but chuckle every time I see the word "natural" used in a way that suggests harmless. I first started chuckling about this in early 80's. Like, take the most dire lump of processed foodstuff which, in my opinion, surely no sane person would ever wish to consume. But emblazon it with the phrase, "all natural" and suddenly there's a queue.

Many of the most deadly poisons known to mankind occur entirely naturally.

Yours,
Frank

[jason]

I've noticed that most people who use drug-induced methods to alter perception reallydon't look too good.most look half dead, like they aren't as "alive" as those of use who rely on the only really "natural" way to explore altered perception-just you,yourself.no drugs,no alcohol,etc.I find it to be the healthiest way.I don't crave or miss those things,either.

[29MV29]

Does anyone know from experience or education if any kind of herb or drug would help in achieving an OBE?  What about weed, would weed help induce lucid dreams?