The Astral Pulse

Please bear with me, I tested the myth, I wanted to see what would happen.

From this experiment, I know beyond any shadow of doubt, there is some truth to the Babylonian/Mesopotamian myth.

As some of you will already know, according to Greek manuscripts, known as "The Lost Books" of the Bible, the abilty to have Out-Of-Body-Experiences means you are a half-breed angel.

For the crime of inbreeding with humans, and teaching them forbidden knowledge,  these angels were thrown into prison for an eternity. It then gives a list of names of angels in prison.

Not knowing what to believe, I lit a prayer-candle for the redemption of these angels. I bought a candle, and with a shaking hand, wrote all the names of the imprisoned on it. I called to my guides and all of heaven to witness.

I left the candle burning and went to bed.

In that twilight state, (mind awake, body asleep) they swept down in force. I could feel they were baffled by me. They were all-too-aware of what I had done. They seemed frustrated. Very.

I heard a booming voice: "WE HAVE SEEN, AND HEARD, ENOUGH."
And then *whack* my candle was knocked right off my alter,  and put out.

I knew what I had done was contraversial to begin with. But I also knew no harm could come to me because I was only praying for lost souls.

(Foolishly?) I arose from bed, and re-lit the candle, and said it was my guilt, that I wouldn't want someone being imprisoned for loving me or giving me secret knowledge.

I got the impression from them that they felt I had no idea what was really going on. "You don't know what you're doing."

Question: What does this mean? Is it true then? That we who have OBE's are half-angel? Children of forbidden unions?

I mean, they answered me didn't they?

AFAIK everyone has the ability to OBE, i've even managed to get people who had no interest outside of materialism to project. It seems when my practice is strong, those who sleep (physically) near me also experience OBE symptoms or full projections. This also occured to university friends who slept in the room next to mine. If everyone could project under the right circumstances, this would mean the entire human race were half-breeds.

Oh Dear

Seems a little unfair to me. Gona have trouble sleeping tonight.

master jingo is correct, astral projection can be learnt from ANYone. Humans are human look at their DNA. No angel dna will be found.

Interesting post, Leyla.

I'm not familiar with the "Lost Books," but even the Book of Genesis suggests that all the intellect and self-consciousness, contained in that magical apple, was explicitly forbidden.  In effect, nearly all human knowledge as we know it could be considered forbidden knowledge.  That knowledge and self-consciousness fundamentally changed humanity... we became a self-made, and hence flawed species.  It was the ultimate affront to the Creator, so naturally, He condemned both His human creatures and the rebellious angel who had led them astray.  

In Judaic folklore, the real first woman, Lilith, who was expelled from Eden because she refused to be passive and submissive to Adam, went out and interbred with angelic beings, and gave rise to a race of demons.  In both cases, it's clear that humans + angels = demonism, or at least a tendency to it.  

Of course, it's important to distinguish these "angels" from the Heavenly Host of messengers, warriors, worshippers, guardians, etc.  My guess would be that it was spirits of this latter group that came and admonished you against praying for the imprisoned angels/demons.

It's not a uniquely Judeo-Christian myth... for example, Prometheus was very harshly punished for empowering humanity with the gift of fire.  There are similar stories from around the world, but they escape me at the moment... I need to brush up on my mythology.

It's difficult not to feel at least the tiniest bit of sympathy for such figures as Satan and Prometheus; humans wouldn't be what we are today without them... and we naturally assume that what we are today is a good thing.  Heaven clearly disagrees, though.  If the way we are were OK, then we wouldn't need redemption, would we?

Mythology aside, though, no I don't regard astral projection as a forbidden, demonic, or particularly extraordinary thing.  If anything, I think it brings us more in touch with our original, pre-Fall nature.  Back to the days when humans saw and sought out the face of God and were unafraid of the universe.  Maybe it's just one more path to redemption... the secret, inward path to the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus speaks of.

Sorry for rambling on!  :blahblah:  :lol:

Ah, I see I did not go into enough detail....

Yes, that's just the trick, according to these myths all human beings are part angel. Every one of us. They created humans as slave-labor.  So it's in all our DNA.

It depends on how *much* angel you have in you. Are you half or more? There was even talk of genetically producing a creature that is fully fallen angel and fully man. A "bastard angelic incarnation."

Certainly we all have OBEs. But how few of use remember them, much less can control and direct them?

And how few of those among us have the abilities of a Gibborim: "powerful psychic abilities like out-of-body experiences, levitation, mind control, time travel, mind reading, remote viewing, the power of placing curses and diseases, the power of removing curses and diseases, and ways of knowing and predicting the future..."

Look, if I didn't tap a nerve I don't think they would have shown up. So there has got to be something to it.

I mean, there are bits of our DNA that scientists can't explain and don't know what it's used for.

NOPE, you are wrong pal.

According to Babylonian/Mesopotamian myth, the creatures who taught human knowledge were huge monsters that emerged from Red Sea during the rules of the first few antediluvian, mythological kings.

The Myth you told is definitely of Judaic, Christian origin.

Leyla,

Sorry, I was off-target... that's what happens when I think too much. :poh:  I was thinking pure, old-fashioned mythology, but you're speaking of something beyond me.  I've never considered a genetic relationship between humans and angels, nor the part about angels creating humans to be slave labor... but that's just my admittedly limited knowledge.

I have a question: who exactly were "they"--the ones who responded to your act?  And how did you know who they were?

Actually, evolution is what really occured, none of these myths actually happened. There is useless DNA in all living things, and that dosen't mean that they are all part something else. In fact, human and cimpanzee DNA is 96% identical. Does that mean chimps are half angel too? Seriously come on, humans are not half angel. Humans are part of the superfamily known as Hominoidea. Humans are humans and that is it.

The Gods form the mesopotamian myths were Ets. Just like the gods of egypt, greece, and so on.

I am not preaching any personal beliefs, just a theory(I am full of them). Maby the text means that people who naturally can AP, levitate, control minds, time travel, RV, inflict diseases, and heal are half breads but that doesn't mean that you have to be a half bread to learn how to preform psychic feets?

Well, back in the day, such explanations were the only explanations, even for the most natural phenomena--and I do believe that one day, all of these phenomena will be found to be perfectly natural, just like diseases.  But the earlier explanations were that people were inhuman or half-human, or humans who were possessed by demons, or people who practiced witchcraft, etc.

Today, some people still consider "occult" practices to be of demonic origin or influence.  But just as we now understand that disease is caused by bacteria, viruses, cancerous cells, and the like, I think that one day, we'll understand what brings about AP and all these other currently mysterious practices.

Just food for thought. ;)

Quotekakarukeys

NOPE, you are wrong pal.

You're thinking of a completly different myth, "pal."
The Anunnaki came to Earth from outer space. The name literally means 'Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came.'

QuoteNickJW

Does that mean chimps are half angel too?

The chimps were already here. Finding them to be clever, the Anunnaki mixed in their own DNA.

The Anunnaki did not want to do any work in the mines, so Enki talked  to the Council's and had his half sister Ninhursag, act as a surrogate mother to a half-human half angelic female hybrid, made with one of her own eggs and a bit of clay, they called her "lulu". They also created a male called "Adamu." Their purpose was to work in the mines as slave labor.

The first of these creatures could not procreate. God Enki then decided to make humans who could procreate. Enlil was angry about this, because now humans were like unto themselves, the gods.  

The God Enki also created race of human leaders even further enhanced with Anunnaki genes. Anunnaki were taking human wives. Enlil was angry about this, and did not like angel blood being polluted with human blood.

Enki and others were also teaching humans forbidden knowledge. This made Enlil even angrier so they decided to leave mankind to die in a flood, to wipe out these "polluted" mixed race humans.

Enki of course, decides to save them, and tells one human "Gilgamesh" how to build an ark.

Enki: Always trying to help humans
Enlil: Always trying to keep humans down.

The whole story bears a striking resemblance to the book of Enoch.

Quote[Chapter 6]

1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.

[Chapter 7]

1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

[Chapter 8]

1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all 2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they 3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .

There is one very striking difference in the two accounts.

According to the Mesopotamian myth humans being inbreed and given knowledge is a very GOOD thing.  

It even makes the claim that being mixed with them, the gods, is what gives humans their souls and thus eternal life.

But according to the "Lost Books" account, it's a very BAD thing.

It's as if, one book is told from the perspective of Enki and the other is from the perspective of Enlil.

lots of nice myths here. but thats what they are. none of them actually happened. no one should believe anything other than what they know here and now. so if you say they talked to you and blew out the candle, well perhaps, like you said, you were in trance and hallicinated/dreamed the whole thing. seems logical to me.

i was under the impression that angels didnt have sex organs. yes the bible says so. not that i believe in the bible or angels anymore (i use to be a hardcore christian/prophecy studier HEH), but if you are going to play along, at least use their jew rules, no?

im pretty sure what happened is  "adam and eve" stumbled uppon a drug and then their minds were opened and they suddonly knew god and what was going on. this happens even today with a good enough high. that is what happened.

Quote from: jay dawglots of nice myths here. but thats what they are. none of them actually happened. no one should believe anything other than what they know here and now. so if you say they talked to you and blew out the candle, well perhaps, like you said, you were in trance and hallicinated/dreamed the whole thing. seems logical to me.

i was under the impression that angels didnt have sex organs. yes the bible says so. not that i believe in the bible or angels anymore (i use to be a hardcore christian/prophecy studier HEH), but if you are going to play along, at least use their jew rules, no?

im pretty sure what happened is  "adam and eve" stumbled uppon a drug and then their minds were opened and they suddonly knew god and what was going on. this happens even today with a good enough high. that is what happened.

Theres a lot of credible theories out there regarding our early religions and myths being brought about by the ingestion of psychedelic plants - well that and limited understanding of the world and laws of nature. Many primitive tribes in the jungles of the world still regularly ingest pshcyedelics to talk with God etc.

And the name of the first man created by Enki was Adam.
The Annunaki are on a planet that is said to be our tenth planet, speaking of which Im sure you've heard that a 10th planet was discovered recently.

Angels, if they exist cant breed with humans because we have solid bodies, angels are spirit beings witch means that they dont have dna...damn it!

exactly, no sex organs. so i would obveously hope everyone else completely doubts the credibility of the all the rest of these ancients myths which say otherwise.

im pretty sure it is 100% impossible for the planet X or tenth planet to sustain life. its frozen and im sure if something was there they would have found it already. all myths are lies. the only thing which is true is what we can experience today.

Quoteso if you say they talked to you and blew out the candle, well perhaps, like you said, you were in trance and hallicinated/dreamed the whole thing. seems logical to me.

Perhaps you don't realize, but this is an astral projection board. Or are you one of those who don't believe OBE's are real?

If you will notice I have almost 500 posts. I have been here many years. You are a newbie, unaware of my reputation as a seasoned AP/OBE practictioner. Lets just say I have earned frequent flier miles, and people do not doubt my word around here. If I said it happend, it happened.

In fact, The majority of my experiences are quite ordinary, as far as OBEs and APs go.

The candle incident actually happened about a year ago. I did not think much of it when it occured. It was not until just a few days ago I was thunder struck with the significance it implies.

Quotei was under the impression that angels didnt have sex organs. yes the bible says so. ... if you are going to play along, at least use their jew rules, no?

Christians only think they know what jews believe. The two religions cannot be further apart. Jewish myth says two angels came down and copulated, teaching mankind how to have sex.

Quoteangels don't have sex organs.

This is why so many believe the "angels" in these myths are really aliens.

Maybe you haven't discovered, or read about this yet, but you don't need a physical body to have sex. Many people have experienced astral sex. It is quite common.

One part of the myth says we get the physical bodies from our human mothers, and our spirit bodies from our spirit fathers, which is why our spirits are able to leave our fleshly bodies and escape back into the realm of the spirit.

So in other words, we got both. One of each. From each parent.

hmm interesting. well i cant personally accept anything like myths unless i see it for myself. and i was under the impression that jews wrote the bible.

still perhaps u shouldnt deny so quickly the possibility that the candle experience was just an LD. although only u can decide as u were there

Ok then Leyla. I don't care how many posts you have made, you are a mystic and one who makes many false assumptions. You can learn about something for decades, but if all the knowledge is false then what good is it? Humans are not half angel, if angels exist they are probably just spirit guides who shape shift. Believeing in such absurd myths just shows how little intelligence you really have. And humans are made from a physical female AND a physical male, not a spiritual male. :question:

You just want yourself to feel special by saying, "hey everyone, I'm half-angel! I'm an angelic being! I am far superior to all you!"

Quoteu shouldnt deny so quickly the possibility that the candle experience was just an LD.

I understand, but it can't be an LD if my physical candle is physically knocked off it's alter. That was the real clincher for me.

NickJW- you are extreemly defensive, not to mention judgmental. Where is this attitude coming from?

QuoteYou just want yourself to feel special by saying, "hey everyone, I'm half-angel! I'm an angelic being! I am far superior to all you!"

Ah-ha! So that's what it all boils down to. What a telling remark. You're afraid of other people feeling special.  

You don't even know what I have had to go through!!!!!

I didn't ask for this- it just frigging happened to me!

You can ask people what I was like when I came to this board; I wasn't rejoicing in my own "specialness," you fool!  I was resentful as hell. Like I'd been cursed.

The only comfort I have is that I am not alone. There are others like me. On this board, I am "normal."

I have since figured out people will gladly pay for my talents. I make a living as an "intuative psychic." (If it won't go away I might as well use it.) So that gives me some consolation.

Do you ever consider that someone like me feels like a freak? Who can't stay in her body, and who knows things she has no way of knowing,  Like some kind of mutant?

Let me tell you something, "pal,"- I have sat up at nights terrified of my own self because I feel creepy and unnatural.

I want one thing, I want to know WHY. WHY am I like this? WHY do I have to be so differant and weird?

I am my own X file!

So I search, I search everywhere, what ever seems to hold some kind of answer. I need an answer.

And finally I feel like I'm onto something. A clue. A precious clue to what I've been hunting for YEARS. So I can finally have some peace.

And all you can do is worry that I might feel special????

Well you know what? That is just ignorant.

I am sure this topic interests you greatly Leyla!
What do you mean you are your own X file?
Are you really from Bangladesh?  Kewl.

Andigarimisou.

Sorry when I meant special I also meant you are hungry for attention by saying your half angel. That entire last post proves it "o look at me, my life was so bad blah blah blah, everyone feel sorry for me!"

Thats your own problem if you think your a mutant because you have powers which most people would consider a gift. You're ungrateful and obviously lacking attention, which is why you come here, brag about your superiority, try to be special and gain attention.

Your arragance is immeasurable.

I think it's useful, to have a fully Downloadable Ego

And whom may you be addressing?

Not me...

no im addressing Leyla, the chosen one whom God made half angel.

when a fish reaches toward strong current most are swept away

what can you do?

Nothing

Sorry to get all Dum again. I'll explain this for the first and last time hopefully. Somebloke means well but is misunderstood. If anyone calls Leyla an Icchantika, they are misunderstood.  

HEAR THIS DUMIS

I Tore IT Apart with My Bare Hands!

Guided I left My Sword and Presence (Mojo) elsewhere, and you know it!  

Again, much love and respect to all those that needlessly mock themselves.

Dearest Leyla,

I couldn't read through the entire thread...just time to glimpse and respond quickly. The arrogance, ignorance, & immaturity is not yours!!! You are keen enough to pick up on the subtleties of intuition, and reading between the lines.
Accept all that has been posted in reply for exactly what it is and nothing more....people's inabilities to explore their beliefs. Too much fear in the unknown (still), which is ironic for an astral forum...but non-the-less.
Had to take a little time to give props.

When you come out of the shadows and start making progress...expect to be attacked! It's a good sign, albeit more than a little frustrating.
(of course I=mc2 is omitted from the "pack") :wink:

Of course I am probably unintentionally adding fuel to the fire for inching into this thread...as I seem to have developed a following of hardened-minds that like to try and keep me check.
Let's hope their engaged elsewhere.

Not sure if this issue was resolved, but "humans" in general function are hi-bred...so yes...the possibility exists that "all" humans can AP/OBE, etc. (may cats can do it for Christ's sake...I don't see why the line is being drawn there) You brought up really intriguing things that are worth exploring, but people will work around them as they try to reel you back into the "established"...there's enough people working on that. You needn't (as I'm sure you feel) waste your time on the given.
It really takes a flexible mind to get in deep. Most people are only puddle-skipping. (I know that won't go over well...too bad..my truth).
gods/goddess/giants/nephilim/angels/archons/monsters/aliens/ancients...
whatever folks want to call them. I don't know where you came from, but you've crossed the line from "acceptable" intelligence into the realm of mystic (universal consciousness/cosmic intelligence)...and there's no going back, and there's no easy path, and there's no apologizing!

Let the Sheeple stay in the fields with their text-books and statistics, and all their scientific theories. Not everyone is built to go off the reservation. Not everyone is brave enough.
I find what you are doing extremely interesting and would love to be kept abreast of any further happenings.
There's too much out there to stick to the middle of the road.
Keep searching! Keep following the clues!

There's only thing I would disagree with, and that's that you did "ask" for it. You asked for it all, and I know when it all comes at you...it's a lot to deal with & decipher. One step at a time.

Respect/Support & Love from a fellow mutant-freak & mysfit!  :grin:
& fellow Intuitive Psychic...that's interesting!?!

Sister Soul

DO as you will then

I have no enemies. Its alot harder to remain silent then it is to speak especially under false ridicule. Somthing I find sad (and this is like my brand new home truth) is that no matter where you go, even in thought there is always war, and that is sad.

They say I have 999 days left, LOL go figure.

Leyla  :grin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates#Socratic_method
Try it!

Quote
Enki: Always trying to help humans
Enlil: Always trying to keep humans down.

I see. You spoke of different myth from mine.
But you don't have to go to Book of Enoch.

The very same story is told in the Bible. I should say most portions of the Bible is a copycat of Mesopotamian myths.

Enlil = Elohim the supreme God of Judaism.
Enki becomes the Serpent in Bible.

lulu and Adamu are just Eve and Adam.

and yes Judaism regards teaching human knowledge a very bad thing. That is what the story of Forbidden Fruit is about.

SomeBloke is stalking me. He's got this mad conspiracy theory where I am Greek (?) and part of an international plot trying to take over the world through survailance equipment. (??!!)
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21022

I'm tempted to agree with him, just to mess with his head...

NickJW- As far as I can figure, you are fifteen years old, have never managed to AP (yet), and if the ancient texts are correct, about 14%-20% of the population would be half-angle. You are simply afraid of being left out. I don't know what to say. I don't have any answers either. I almost hope the same would happen to you, just so I could have a laugh watching you panic and scramble for answers just like I have.

Sister Soul. Thank you for your words. You've given me much to think about. I'll be mulling it over.

Sloof- a very interesting way to put it.

IequalMC2- You're hillarious!  :lol:  (And a bit heroic, I might add.)

ANCIENT TEXTS MEAN NOTHING!11!1

you gotta admit, ancient people were complete dumbasses. they believed any and EVERYTHING. we have scientists now.

Dear Leyla,

Yeah...either this forum is running amuk-i with children, or they're just messing with you!!! Thankfully I feel you're a woman that won't fall "prey" to it! :wink:

Dear Dawg, ...2005 and we've come such a long way! NOT!  :roll: I am of course willing to concede to your ideas if you can give one scientific "fact" that proves anything one way or the other.

Soul333

Hilarious!
This thread reminds in a way of those funny "other kin" people. :smashfreak:


And souljah, calling adolescents children was pure genius!

Whatever is considered "scientific" or "mystical" there still remains one consideration:
The missing link is still missing!

Homo Erectus -> ____ -> Homo Sapien. Who really can fill in the blank?

Darwin's Almighty Theory of Evolution consitently trips over this one, no matter who comes out with a freshly re-hashed version.

Spontaneous DNA mutation? Hmmm... That's one helluva precise and very well ordered mutation! Considering with most known DNA mutations the organism either dies or turns viral.

So we seem to be left with Atlantian/Lemurian, Alien or Angelic intervention.

Timelines according to mythology place the Atlantian civilisation about right. But who were they? Alien colonists, Angelic hybrids?

Science cannot prove evolution or DNA mutation, in fact more proof seems to be coming out to oppose it.
Science also cannot disprove outside intervention. Science can only relegate such ideas to the relm of "mystical" and therefore justify ignoring the possibilities.

Tell me though...
How many members here are aware of a past connection to Atlantis? How many sense an affinity with either angelic or alien presences?

Maybey it is in our genes after all, and Leyla has uncovered access to something that I know many others have also uncovered...
Genetic memory!

Blessings,
James

Leyla, the story reminds me of different SciFi stories written by Larry Niven. I remember first reading them back in the day and wondering, why not? Why isn't it feasible that humanity was brought about in a different way? It's fun to think about at least, and to try to think about possibilities.

As far as Leyla's experience, we can't really interpret it for her - say she was hallucinating or whatever. We can only take it as anecdotal evidence and conduct an experiment ourselves if we are really serious about the matter.

QuoteAncient people were complete dumbasses. they believed any and EVERYTHING. we have scientists now.

Science is by no means a modern phenomenon.  It's just as much a belief system as anything, and like all belief systems, it changes over time.  Yesterday's science is today's folklore, superstition, magic, and mysticism... and yet it has paved the way for all subsequent sciences.  Why should we think that today's science won't go the same way?  If anything, today's science constantly makes us aware of how much we don't, and probably can't understand using science as we know it.  I think that's probably a major reason most of us are here.  Personally I think science and mysticism are going to merge again, and when that happens, we'll find an immense wellspring of knowledge at our disposal.

And mythology shouldn't be sneered at either---I hope no one thought I was writing off Leyla's experience by discussing it in mythological terms.  I believe mythology and its archetypes are the Universal Language and Universal Memory.  Don't tell me it's just coincidence that throughout space and time, there are so many common mythological traditions.  Or that quite a lot of modern "sci-fi" and "fantasy" bears resemblance to ancient mythology?  Personally, I do alot of mythography myself--all my writing is heavily mythographical.  Connecting to, relating to, and self-expressing mythology is extremely powerful and ought not be a thing of the past.  Yeah, my writing would be considered fantasy, but it's much more than that to me.

The psychology of symbolism and mythology suggest their great import for human nature and the mind.  Perhaps we should try to push it into genetics and other "real" sciences.  Like I said, that's beyond me (for now, anyway)... but that doesn't mean it's beyond everyone.

If ancient people were so dumb, how did they build the pyramids and align them with the stars or how did they erct enormous obolisks? There were civilizations that new the positions of certain stars long before our scientists discovered them.

Quote from: James SWhatever is considered "scientific" or "mystical" there still remains one consideration:
The missing link is still missing!

Homo Erectus -> ____ -> Homo Sapien. Who really can fill in the blank?

Darwin's Almighty Theory of Evolution consitently trips over this one, no matter who comes out with a freshly re-hashed version.

Spontaneous DNA mutation? Hmmm... That's one helluva precise and very well ordered mutation! Considering with most known DNA mutations the organism either dies or turns viral.

So we seem to be left with Atlantian/Lemurian, Alien or Angelic intervention.

Timelines according to mythology place the Atlantian civilisation about right. But who were they? Alien colonists, Angelic hybrids?

Science cannot prove evolution or DNA mutation, in fact more proof seems to be coming out to oppose it.
Science also cannot disprove outside intervention. Science can only relegate such ideas to the relm of "mystical" and therefore justify ignoring the possibilities.

Tell me though...
How many members here are aware of a past connection to Atlantis? How many sense an affinity with either angelic or alien presences?

Maybey it is in our genes after all, and Leyla has uncovered access to something that I know many others have also uncovered...
Genetic memory!

Blessings,
James

Could you please provide me with some links or resources to this evidence against evolution and genetic mutation? I'm genuinely curious. Years ago in A level biology I did experiments on fruit flies which showed inheritance first hand, it also showed genetic mutation. The fruit flies were used due to their minute lifespan, so many generations of evolution could be observed relatively quickly.
The lack of a fossil does not disprove a theory which has been proved scientifically. By this I mean such things as genetic inheritance, and being able to trace ones family back through time genetically. Or do you believe genetics is false? This would have major implications on many criminal investigations and paternity cases.

Quote from: MindFreakIf ancient people were so dumb, how did they build the pyramids and align them with the stars or how did they erct enormous obolisks? There were civilizations that new the positions of certain stars long before our scientists discovered them.

Which stars were these? Many ancient people had a very good grasp of mathematics, to most early civilisatios mathematics was a sacred thing.

Quote from: Almost Mrs. Murphy

QuoteAncient people were complete dumbasses. they believed any and EVERYTHING. we have scientists now.

Science is by no means a modern phenomenon.  It's just as much a belief system as anything, and like all belief systems, it changes over time.  Yesterday's science is today's folklore, superstition, magic, and mysticism... and yet it has paved the way for all subsequent sciences.  Why should we think that today's science won't go the same way?  If anything, today's science constantly makes us aware of how much we don't, and probably can't understand using science as we know it.  I think that's probably a major reason most of us are here.  Personally I think science and mysticism are going to merge again, and when that happens, we'll find an immense wellspring of knowledge at our disposal.

And mythology shouldn't be sneered at either---I hope no one thought I was writing off Leyla's experience by discussing it in mythological terms.  I believe mythology and its archetypes are the Universal Language and Universal Memory.  Don't tell me it's just coincidence that throughout space and time, there are so many common mythological traditions.  Or that quite a lot of modern "sci-fi" and "fantasy" bears resemblance to ancient mythology?  Personally, I do alot of mythography myself--all my writing is heavily mythographical.  Connecting to, relating to, and self-expressing mythology is extremely powerful and ought not be a thing of the past.  Yeah, my writing would be considered fantasy, but it's much more than that to me.

The psychology of symbolism and mythology suggest their great import for human nature and the mind.  Perhaps we should try to push it into genetics and other "real" sciences.  Like I said, that's beyond me (for now, anyway)... but that doesn't mean it's beyond everyone.

Hey Mrs. Murphy,

Could you please provide me with some links or resources to this evidence against evolution and genetic mutation? I'm genuinely curious. Years ago in A level biology I did experiments on fruit flies which showed inheritance first hand, it also showed genetic mutation. The fruit flies were used due to their minute lifespan, so many generations of evolution could be observed relatively quickly.
The lack of a fossil does not disprove a theory which has been proved scientifically. By this I mean such things as genetic inheritance, and being able to trace ones family back through time genetically. Or do you believe genetics is false? This would have major implications on many criminal investigations and paternity cases.

I would say that today's science is different from that in the past due to in not having any true belief system or mythology attached to it. It's simply creating a hypothesis and either proving it through empirical evidence (i.e. the results are repeatable by whoever does it however many times they do it).

I agree mythology shouldn't be sneered at. There is potentially a lot of (missing) history stored in it. A lot of mythology could potentially be the symbolism of the mind, archetypes of the subconscious made manifest in tales and legends. This could potentially explain the similarity of certain myths throughout many cultures and times – that is we each share the same mind structure, and so the myths which arise from it are sufficiently similar.
Could another possibility be due to our shared origins? Man originated somewhere in Africa, so at some point we were one tribe. Somehow original myths perhaps stayed with each tribe which split from the original and populated the world?

Hi MisterJingo,

Here are some links to look at:

www.inthelight.co.nz/spirit/pg-evol.htm

This is a comprehensive site:
www.detectingdesign.com/earlyman.html

The second doco does show how using DNA & mtDNA testing as proof is prone to error. This is one extract from that site:

QuoteThen there is the argument of Neanderthal DNA.  On July 11, 1997, the announcement was made in the journal Cell that Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) had been successfully recovered and sequenced by Svante Pääbo and his team.25  Of course there were statistical differences between Neanderthal DNA and the DNA of modern humans.  These differences were used to calculate the evolutionary divergence of Neanderthals from a common ancestor to around 550,000 to 690,000 years ago.  It is thought that Neanderthals then became extinct without contributing mtDNA to the modern human genome.  In other words, Neanderthals were just one of many offshoots or splinter groups that became extinct but who were not direct links to modern humans in our evolutionary branch.  

       However, there are just a few problems with this theory.  One problem has come to the forefront with movies such as Jurassic Park and with the publicity of the O.J. Simpson murder trial where DNA technology played a prominent role.  Some problems that were brought more clearly to light by these media events is that DNA does not last very long.  It breaks down fairly rapidly depending on environmental factors.  Even under the most favorable conditions, many scientists believe that DNA cannot remain identifiably intact beyond a few tens of thousands of years. 27,28  In light of this fact, it is unlikely that very many Neanderthal skeletons would contain intact DNA, even with such relatively "young" remains dating to between 30,000 and 50,000 years.  The common explained solution to this problem is that in certain environments, especially very dry and cold environments, DNA can last much longer than it can in warm wet environments.  However, even in these "protective" environments, DNA still breaks down at a fairly rapid rate.  The rate is so rapid in fact that few scientists believe that it could last much beyond 50,000 years.  Because of these decay problems, the reports of DNA being recovered from insects trapped in amber that is millions of years old are now being called into serious question.29   In any case, even for Neanderthal bones that are thought to be fairly "young", finding DNA that can still be sequenced is turning out to be quite a rare find indeed. Because of this problem, repeatability is becoming a real issue in the study of Neanderthal DNA.  As it turns out, mtDNA recovery from Neanderthals has only been done three times.  Others have found it very difficult to repeat Pääbo's results.  Since the scientific method is based on repeatability, the whole issue of Neanderthal mtDNA and its implications comes into question.

The other problem with using DNA for the answers is in looking for the similarities. Consider that humans and chimpanzees share just over 98% of the same genetic material. That less than 2% makes all the difference.

While I agree that genetic testing has provided a great deal of value by way of DNA fingerprinting, it still does not provide any conclusive proof where it comes to tracing our prehistoric lineage.

:smile:
James.

James S- Wow. I didn't know even half of that information you gave on DNA mutation.

I didn't get any information or answers out of them. Just "implication."

I am frustrated there was not more.

The only point they made was: "You don't understand/You don't know what you're doing/You shouldn't be doing this."

So all I know for certain, is that there is a lot I don't know!

(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/spezial2/christo/Christo_pull_hair.gif)

Don't feel disappointed Leyla!

We are but impatient children ever asking "why".
The wise elders know that to just give us the answers would be to spoil us, and we would not learn.

That you have been given even a glimpse of understanding is something to be treasured, even if one answer raises a dozen more questions.

Such is our path of evolution.

That fragment of understanding that you've uncovered may come at a price, and the slap on the hand you recieved for peeking under the covers may simply be to test your resolve.

What is your resolve?
Do you dare to look further?

Blessings,
James.

Dear MrJingo, Could you please provide me with some links or resources to this evidence "for" science reigning highest on the scale of truths?!?
Just kidding...I don't really want links & resources (really). I work with my own truth, no one elses...but i'm intrigued by your passion for proof!

i haven't bother talking much about my view points with the 'falling veil' of our perception, and how i believe parallel worlds to be merging, but it falls somewhat in line here, with 2012, and the ushering in of another golden age, etc. i've avoided it bcuz it involves a lot of personal work & insight on my part that is too easily discredited by the masses...and why would i want to subject myself to rigid two-dimensional pessimism?!? backing up my ideas comes through astral travel, trance, channeling, divination, dreams, etc...not much weight for the scientifically minded.

still...to sum it up as clearly as i can...i see a point in time where the world was "whole" (corresponding the golden age). a time when magic & manifestation was available to all who practiced at it. fairies, goblins, dragons, wizards, demons, angels, cyclopes, unicorns, and humans, etc...all living in each others midst's. when giants walked the earth and came into women and they were good, and all that jazz! :wink:

supposedly a 65,000 year cycle (going from gold to silver, to bronze and into iron) this is the so-called iron age we live in now. when we are furthest from spirit and our universal intelligence. gold is when we pass through it, and silver begins the waining process...much like the cycles of the moon. i guess you have to be a woman to really have a deep feel for it all. or at least be in harmony & balance with your divine energy. science is at the opposing end of the scale. so an excess of one side or the other, neither is helpful. this also involves my feelings on dualistic thought, and extreme perspectives...where the truth is ultimately given in the middle.
not in the black & white/cut & dry version (but that's another matter).

we are so far away (in this iron age) from the mystical that it's difficult to recognize & comprehend that which we cannot see & touch. however the 'flip' will be sudden & spontaneous. already more and more people are picking up on spirit, and etheric information. more people under attack, more people having spontaneous obes, etc...and even scientists leaning more towards the mystical (as AMM mentioned).

i've never cared much for science...it always leads to vivisection and dis-embodiment. i've never been able to put much stock in an art that comes to it's conclusions through constant separation. only in the last decade has that begun to change...where science is only now beginning to add up all it has dismantled & identified. i guess that's just how it woks?!? how it comes round full circle?!? just seems so damn slow, and in the end we all find ourselves back at square one. i'm not going to claim to know anything about genetics, but i have heard that the male chromosome is lacking. sometimes i wonder if men can "feel" that?!? if there's a certain desperateness to everything...in knowing that they're a dying race???

also a link for fun! (if you can afford it) :grin:
The Genographic Porject
https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/

note: i have struggled with the idea of the 'flip'. why wouldn't we "wax" back into the golden age as subtly as we waltzed out?!? i have no idea.
i know there's also talk of an actual pole shift in correspondence with 2012 & planet X....also with polar caps melting, etc. why not!?!

though from what i have available...it isn't so much a 'phasing' thing (like the moon/tides)(that ebb & flow...where things swing to one side and then the other). this is more cyclical like a calender or astrological signs...of which, you don't get to the end of and turn around to cycle back through each month till you reach the beginning again. nope...we go right from dec.31st straight into an entirely new year. maybe it's like that!?! it all as something to do with alignment! that after 65 thousand years the earth, our galaxy, and the universe will (again) be in polar alignment. what does that mean exactly? i have some idea about thing working only when they are in alignment (like radio signals), but i have absolutely no idea for sure (not any that i can include links to :wink:)...but i like to think that a lot of s--t is going to change! :grin:

Leyla, I have astral projected but I follow Frank's phasing model. I don't believe in alll the mystic junk surrounding it. That just makes it into a religion. If you think becasue someone astral projects they will believe in all this angel non sense you really are naive. My mind isn't influenced so easily. Humans are not half angel and evolution HAS been scientifically proven. You are making many false assumptions about me Leyla, I am just intelligent enough to know what is possibly real and what is obviousily not. I base my beliefs on experience, logic and science. Perhaps you should try it. You are not a half angel.

And Souljah, uh, the proof that science ranks highest in the scale of truth is all around you. Seriously you people shouldn't kid yourselves. It's ok to believe what you want but you can't seriously deny scientific evidence and proof when it is right in front of your eyes.
                                    GO SCIENCE!!!!

NickJW,

QuoteAnd Souljah, uh, the proof that science ranks highest in the scale of truth is all around you. Seriously you people shouldn't kid yourselves. It's ok to believe what you want but you can't seriously deny scientific evidence and proof when it is right in front of your eyes.

So much harping about proof!!

"Proof is never definitive, after all; one has to begin again with each new person."
- Albert Camus

"If you believe in something, no proof is necessary. If you don't, none is sufficient."
- unknown

I know you were addressing Leyla & Souljah, but I couldn't help thinking -
what are you doing here?
No, really.
Why are you even a member of a site like this if you cannot except anything outside of what science can prove?

Aren't there sceptics forums you'd be better suited too?

Oh, wait, thats right! You do believe in phasing - as per Franks model.  
I hate to tell you this, but the "pure science" sceptics don't believe in phasing either. It too, according to "science" is mystical mumbo jumbo, and cannot be supported by proof. I believe there's another thread running about just that.

Funny thing also, if you read through all the literature available on evolution, you will see that it too is not supported by pure scientific "proof".

Science, to those who follow without question, is just as much a religion of faith as any other religion, and you appear to be falling into the same "religious" trap as many followers of the mystical beliefs that you criticise.

If you want to give something true scientific validity, providing proof that something is true is not enough. You must also provide proof that it is not false

Evolution is only a theory, nothing more. It has neither been proved or disproved.
It holds weight in the scientific community only because it is a popular theory. Any theory, when given enough technical data and made popular by the media can also be held up as "science".

James.

Quoteeven if one answer raises a dozen more questions.

That's exactly what happened. That's what I'm dealing with.

QuoteThe slap on the hand you recieved for peeking under the covers

A clever way of putting it. Certainly that's what it felt like.

So if it was a test as you say, I passed because I picked up and re-lit the candle, placing it back on the alter. Stubborn as ever.

But I really feel I offended them. (obviously without meaning to.) But this grain of knowledge I got is very valuable. (Even though it took me about a year to realize its significance) But scary.  :shock:

(...and of course you know a piece to this story that nobody else does.)

i had fun writing a reply to nickyJ...just obvious stuff and more rope, and all that, but held of posting it till this morning, bcuz i thought i could be more concise & sweeter. this morning however i have little concern over delivering my perspective in a palatable manner, and picking up on some energy that this thread might not hold any information for me (that i'm not already well acquainted with). feeling i read something 'more' into it that's not really there.

(...but of course i know a part of the story that nobody else does.)
best of luck with it all
soul

The only difference between science and religion is that science has proof while the rest is faith. By looking at fossil records it is proof that evolution occured, we don't know everything of how exactly it occured (but there are plausible theories) but we still do know that it did in fact occur. I do question some scientific biases, example phasing and other psi phenomena, but it can't be disproved and most scientist are unwilling to investigate. However, some things are plain and simplely true or not true. We can disprove things like being half angel with biology. While some mysticism can't be proven wrong or right, some can be proven wrong flat out. And many mystic beliefe systems are based on belief systems, while for I, phasing is just science which has yet to be proven.

It is not your decision to decide whether I can come here James, some people have reasonable views, while your kind are unwilling to accept truth , even when it proves without a shadow of a doubt that your theories are wrong.

Leyla,

QuoteStubborn as ever.

:smile:  You go girl!

Yes, and I've wondered how the story has progressed. No doubt though that you were/are on the right track.

I get the feeling you didn't offend them more than you surprised them. You're seeing something on the horizon that maybey they feel you're not ready for yet. To which I'd reply "FREE WILL! Like it or lump it fellas!!"  :wink:

NickJW,

Quote...while for I, phasing is just science which has yet to be proven.

LOL!! I hope I'm not the only one here who can see the irony in that!
Does that mean you have faith that it will be proven?
All the sciences were born of imagination and belief.
All the prominent scientists through history had to have faith and belief, or they would never have found any of their proof.

No, it's not for me to say whether you are to be here or not. I just wonder sometimes, when you are so unaccepting of the thoughts of others, why you are?

And I've yet to see your proof of anything here being wrong at all!
But like I've said elsewhere, go for it! Find the proof!
I've been wrong before in my beliefs, so I'm definitely open to having yet more proven wrong. It helps me learn. You also might surprise yourself!

James.

That is of couse assuming phasing is real, which i believe to be so since i have experienced it. Is not everything that is real technically science? Thats where i get the conclusion that it is science that has yet to be proven. Actually science starts out with noticing things not inventing ideas out of thin air. Newton noticed things which led him to his discoveries in physics, not made them up. Some how you have an emotional need to find a flaw in science, but you will be very unsuccesful.

QuoteThat is of couse assuming phasing is real, which i believe to be so since i have experienced it.

Funny how nothing anybody else experiences is real.

Not to be rude but all religions are just man made inventions and ideals.

Some belive in god and satan, some in the old gods like marduk and pazuzu and tiamat other belive in buda, others in goddess.

Christians are a good example - there are numerous forms of christianity and all of them belive that everyone else (even other other religions that belive in the same god) are going to a bad place.

The point I am trying to make here is everyone has their belifes, and to say that if you can do this then you must be part of something is just dead wrong.

There are powerful forces out there, and these inventions we call "gods" and "goddesses" are mere shadows or echos of the real thing.

With that being said -

I belive that science has always been slow to catch up with the "supernatural" - not too long ago our ancestors hugged each other in fear as lightning and thunder ripped across the sky - they belived the "gods" were upset.

In modern times we know that thunder and lightning is caused by charged particals in the clouds that bind together to form a static charge. You don't see masses of people screaming in fear from the thunder - now days they know it is not some all powerful being that is mad but rather a natural event that we can understand.

As far as OOBEs are concerned, we are till in fear of them, don't understand them, or just flat out don't know they exist.

Some day in the future we will have hard scientific proof of the astral, and of course when we do more and more religious belifes will be dispelled.

If you feel it nessasary to flame me for the rant about religions, thats fine - but remeber I do not belive what you belive - so in the end I really won't care  :lol:

QuoteThat is of couse assuming phasing is real, which i believe to be so since i have experienced it. Is not everything that is real technically science? Thats where i get the conclusion that it is science that has yet to be proven. Actually science starts out with noticing things not inventing ideas out of thin air. Newton noticed things which led him to his discoveries in physics, not made them up. Some how you have an emotional need to find a flaw in science, but you will be very unsuccesful.

There is no way that science as you speak of it could ever prove phasing. It's a non-physical thing, in the non-physical universe, and a physical instrument could never record anything of it, only how it effects the physical. Like said, it's personal "experience" that matters. That's scientific proof in the astral.

It's kind of silly to me to say "hey, your non-physical experiences aren't real, because I haven't experienced them, but mine are the definite article, I just can't prove them to you."

Both science and religion have held humanity back in the search for real explanations. Maybe it's time to discard both. The answer is never going to be in front of your physical eyes.

The physical world is Maya, and that can only be understood through experience.

cairnsb- If you feel it nessasary to insult me for the post about angels/spirit guides, thats fine - but remeber I have met the entities you don't belive in - so in the end I really won't care.

I was not insulting you - but I am kind of glad I did.

Because that was one of my points...religion tends to send people off the deep end faster then anything else, not to mention that it also makes them assume certain things without knowing any of the facts.

Just because I do not belive them to be "angels" does not mean that they do not exist.

But the act of calling them "angels" or "demons" attaches a certain stigma to them.

For example if I tell you I had a 4 hour conversation with a "deamon" you would get a mental image that I was sitting there with some bat winged monster that wanted nothing more then my enternal damnation.

When in fact I am a computer guy and "deamon" is slang for a network server - but because the word looks and sounds like "demon" people automaticaly assume certain things based off their own belifes... even when the two subjects have nothing to do with each other, the impulse to prejudge the topic based off their religious belifes is too strong to ignore.

When it comes to OOBEs and things of that nature I think (like Robert Monroe) people should remain as open and objective as possible - just because it is a "pretty being made of light" does not mean it wants to help you in any way - more to the point it may actually want to eat you instead  :lol:

The other point I wanted to make is that saying everyone that can OOBE (basically every living creature) is part angel is very offensive to people that do not belive in god and angels and such things... not to mention terrifying if you think about it from the perspective of non-christians... little hindu girl gets out of her body only to get a firm beating by a few angels that happened to be in the area and wanted to put the word of god into her.

So in short - before you start labeling things and saying they are "angelic" or "demonic" maybe - just maybe ask them who they are, and then ask them to prove it - after all it might be something that just wants to play with your mind  :twisted:

all im saying is people dont GENERALLY think those lights in the night sky are angels or DEMONDS anymore. we pretty much know they are balls of gas, in this day and age.

all things which are unknown to man lead to superstition or science.

You claiming to be half angel is not an experience Leyla, it's a false assumption.

You know demon actually means a spirit. Its nothing evil at all.

Your absolutely correct Mindfreak.

The word Demon originated from the Latin Daemon which simply means "spirit". Its only been later christian translations that have translated it as "unclean spirit", or deofol in Old English,  feend or deuil in in Middle English. I'm sure you can see what became of those words.

As to the usage of the word with computers, it apparently originated in 1963 with the early developmnet of IBM systems. DAEMON is an acronym for Disk And Executive MONitor. Mosts systems today, including Windows still make use of Daemons to monitor processes.

I love the polar opposites here!
On one side we have the religions so fearful of demons taking us over, and on the other, the computer industry where daemons work for us!  :cool:

:smile:
James.

NickJW- You are a liar. I never made any such claim. I did not write the Mesopotamian texts or the book of Enoch.

I said that angels appeared. (Because they did.) I said one of them told me "We have seen and heard enough." (Because it did.) And that one of them knocked over a candle (Because it did.)

Well in that case, why are you saying I am critising your beliefs. I am only giving a different opinion on you rclaim to be half angel. You told me I was in the wrong because I said that you weren't.

Ok all we are saying is this...

Is it possible that instead of angels it was a few bored demons (not the computer kind) that decided to mess with your head?

Quote from: cairnsbOk all we are saying is this...

Is it possible that instead of angels it was a few bored demons (not the computer kind) that decided to mess with your head?

There are distinct differences in the energies of angels to those of other spirits that people with experience here can easily pick.

Leylay's an experienced clairvoyant. She's worked with enough different spirits to tell who's who. More devious spirits can fake their apperences, but they can't fake their energies.

I mention this because I've been in that situation too.

:smile:
James.

Quote from: James S

Quote from: cairnsbOk all we are saying is this...

Is it possible that instead of angels it was a few bored demons (not the computer kind) that decided to mess with your head?

There are distinct differences in the energies of angels to those of other spirits that people with experience here can easily pick.

Leylay's an experienced clairvoyant. She's worked with enough different spirits to tell who's who. More devious spirits can fake their apperences, but they can't fake their energies.

I mention this because I've been in that situation too.

:smile:
James.

Good and evil - a common theme in all religions and belife systems.
The problem is... who is good and who is evil - it is all a matter of perspective.

As for the faking energy - nothing is impossible  :lol:

Hi cairnsb,

Oh absolutely it's a matter of perspective! You'll not get a dissagreement from me there. I also agree about the whole religious "good / evil" thing.

For me it all comes back to that rather important little "know thyself" thingy. Getting that happening, and getting the own intuition bit happening too, not only sets up the basis for comparison, it sets up the ability to test the spirits. Thats why I say you can always sense the energies.
Still, worst a deceptive spirit can do is to lull you into a false sense of security so you ignore the little alarm bells that go off.

God, you can feel such a git when you realise that's happened!  :wall:

Still, I can only answer that for me, not for Leyla... which... is probably exactly what I appear to be doing. DOH!
I do know she has experience in this area, but I guess I should leave her to tell you what that is.   :silence:

:smile:
James.

I don't see the point in trying to convince you of the validity of my experience. You already have your mind made up that the texts have to be wrong.

Yet, you cannot supply any proof they are wrong, other than to say they were written by ancients and everybody knows how dumb the ancients were, bowing down to rocks and such.  :roll:

If that's the best you can do, I'm going with the ancients, because I'm sure they have to be smarter than you.

Hey sweetie :)

I have interacted with Light and Shadow angel beings for a very long time consciously. From my understanding, the "fallen" angel beings, the Watchers, who are of the path of Shadow (which is not utterly negative by nature) either were asked to diversify the human gene pool with their "input" (hehe) or they decided themselves to do so. In either case, somewhere along the lines a certain faction of beings which most seem to agree was headed by yahweh, got their panties in a bunch and didnt like that Humans were being given "awareness" outside of the primal vibration.

To bring it down to Laymans terms, think about a group of scientists that discovers chimpanzees actually have the capacity to evolve into a humanoid state of being and awareness. One group of scientists decides that the chimpanzees should be used for their (the scientists) own advancement...as slaves basically. One group of scientists disagrees (rather vehemently) and thinks the chimpanzees should be given a chance at evolving into their own fully (with a little help as needed) because they have displayed signs of self awareness which means the Soul inhabiting the body is also aware. Both sides end up fighting.

Now take that concept and apply it to Humans. Given that there is a whole testament talking about yahweh in the Bible, one would reasonably assume that the bible was written through the point of view that would further yahweh's goals (to use us as slaves). This is made even more clear when you see the tawdry glow the Watchers are cast in. Put two and two together doll. The Watchers came here to help us but because of the rise of "organized religions" which ironically TELL us what to believe, centuries upon centuries of negativity have been heaped on the Watchers just because these religions say theyre bad...ew yuck. All that negative energy must be a pretty big burden.

Um, I'd be pretty mad too, to say the least. Wouldnt you? Trying to help a group of beings that hate you because a book(s) tell them to? I'd need a huge mega bottle of Acetaminophen to begin with!, hehe.

And, of course, just like Humans would in the same circumstances, there must inevitably be a few of the Watchers that think to themselves, "Why are we trying so hard to help and save these people when they wont even take the time to see our point of view? Let them save themselves!" These would be the more frustrated energies you encounter, reasonably speaking.

And, going along those lines, just like Humans would in the same circumstances, there must inevitably be a few of the "angels of yahweh" who think to themselves, "You know....treating these Humans like our slave race really isnt that nice of a thing to do.....why am I taking orders blindly? I think helping the Humans would be the right thing to do."

So...there is no clear cut black and white. Its all gray. Just like with us. Humans, even banded together for a collective cause, retain their individual beliefs and thoughts and motives. What makes you think these angels are different?


....What you did was beautiful, by the way. Youre thinking outside the box. Dont let the "grumpy" Watchers get ya down. Give them a break, sweetie, all that blind hatred being thrown towards them is a heavy load to carry.

:Love Light and Peace:

Corie