I think Robert Monroe reported the same thing about certain entites - if memory serves, the angel-type beings that he saw at the 'reception centre' area.
However, it was also revealed to Monroe that love is indeed essential, and that there is in fact a type of 'superlove' that exists in the astral planes and is even tangible. According to him, it is extremely important.
So don't lose heart just on account of a couple of entities you have met. [:)]
This happened to me too, in the one time I was visited by an 'Angel'.
All I can say is his detached manner was essential to his message, which I found very important. I really can't go in to much detail of just what his message was, it is too personal.
I had never expected to see an angel though, so I guess I was less disillusioned.
Have you considered the possibility that maybe you aren't sufficently clairvoyant enough to 'pick up' on emotions/feelings/whatever from very high astral entities?
I think the fact that I AP should say enough in iteslf. However, since you ask, I do astrology and tarot and am very accurate (so I am told.) After I began OBEs this ability has increased to the point that I have stopped people in public places to give them messages. Although a few have been frightened, all of them said I was accurate. (of couse I don't dare approach a stranger unless I know for a fact the message is clear.)
Nope, they were just very formal and detatched. It was all business. Sorry if that upsets you but there is no mistake.
I think maybe that's just how they are. I have to throw the pre-conceived notions my parents taught me out the window.
Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong.
I mean, if you're up there, in charge of peoples lives you have to be serious about it, right? You can't go about it all casual with a "let the chips fall where they may" attitude.
And lets face it, it's got to be a high pressure position. Like being a doctor or something.
Would I place less confidence in them if they weren't formal? That's something to think about.
And less face it, I'm in a subordinate position. Maybe there's a rule against getting too close with people you have charge of. Like Teacher/Student Boss/Employee relations.
Do you think after work they go kick back, all casual, wearing jeans and a T-shirt, knocking back drinks with their angel buddies?
I bet they'd never dare let us see them like that.
You expect a certain degree of professionalism out of a guardian angel.
Leyla , are you saying you met your guardian angel.
Is it possible to see guardian angels in real life
"Sorry if that upsets you but there is no mistake."
Erm, not really. This was your experience, not mine. [|)]
Is it possible to use question marks? (< Looks like a 'yes.')
Leyla here is my opinion. I don't know if it;s wrong or right...
Let's say you met your spirit guides or some beings you have been with so many lives. You didn't met them while dead (thanx god [:)]) but while out of body.
What i want to say it's that you are still on earth for the reason you are here and had not yet finished that reason.
I believe if you had met them after you died (when your time will come) they sure will be warm and all that.
You are still here to take lessons and maybe if they act the way you expect them too they might break some of you purpose?
After all they are your spirit guides and they know more than you do here about you and your life.
Leyla..I think that is a BRILLIANT point you have made..I have been considering writing an article for a magazine entitled "Cold Angels" because.in my view..that is EXACTLY what these spiritual beings are like...there is NO way in my view that spiritual entities go all "Oprah Winfrey Emoting" sort of crap that we mortals indulge in down here..they cannot...their evolutionary task has no time to deal with folks who "emote" and draw attewntion to themselves at the slghtest drop of a hat or proverbial tear! Good point indeed!!!!
I think it's important to realize that there isn't always a connection between an entity's astral power and their ability to be loving.
If these angels are really in to having status and an important job then maybe they've decided not to develop their loving sides. Perhaps they choose who they love and who they don't love.
That is a valid way to do things I guess but it's not unconditional love. God's love is completely unconditional so it would be a huge mistake to expect that God is just a more powerful version of the angels you met.
Love unconditionally to be more like God. Just because a notion is pre-conceived doesn't mean it's not true. If your parent's taught you unconditional love is our highest expression then I would definitely hang on to that idea.
I re-read two ancient text that deal with Angels.
1) Bible angels are not warm and snuggly. Whenever they appear they are usually there to kick someones butt, or to give someone the order to go kick someones butt.
2) The only exception is with the visitation to Mary and the Shepherds, and when they saw them they were "sore afraid" not "filled with warmpth and love."
3) The Book of Enoch goes into detail about Angels relationships with human women. Now I truly understand the formality.
4) It seems a long time ago a few Angels were taking advatage of their position and making human women their wives and even having children by them. A race of giants and two other races came from these unions. They were put in astral-jail for this crime.
I think this may be why they didn't want me to embrace them. The appearance of impropriety.
After all, I'm a dancer/model in my twenties with hair down to my behind- there's a verse or two in there about angels being attracted to womens hair, which is why you're supposed to wear a veil in church. (odd, but that's what it says)
quote:
After all, I'm a dancer/model in my twenties with hair down to my behind- there's a verse or two in there about angels being attracted to womens hair, which is why you're supposed to wear a veil in church. (odd, but that's what it says)
LOL..you go girl...with a statement like that, there wont be a lack of attraction towards ya now!..[:D]
Nay.[;)]
Leyla,
You're more knowledgable about the Bible than I am, if it's true about impersonal angels I think it's too bad because I don't like things that separate people. Anyway it's good that you've got both the spiritual and physical beauty thing going on!
Well, if angels got attached it could be like a professional worker in a mental institute getting attached to one of his patients. He would feel sorry for the patient if the patient had to undergo some serious treatment like shock therapy, and do whatever he could to stop the patient from recieving such treatment. Life is a harsh lesson at times, and if a guiding spirit or angel became too attached it could be quite hazardous to our learning our lessons.
Later
~FT
You lot might want to read Robert Monroe's books. He had a lot to do with the higher entities (in a manner of speaking), and wrote a lot about them.
I really couldn't say, because of my limited experience, but as far as angels emoting and stuff I'm pretty sure if the job required it they would do what was necessary, even if it require smiling or cheering someone up.
Just my two cents.
Not only that, but it also said of these other half-breed races, (besides the giants) that they have physical bodies from their earthly mothers, and astral bodies from their heavenly fathers, and thus can operate in both places. There's a lot of heavy implications there, conserning those of us who astral travel.
As for the other comment, The thing they did that got them in so much trouble was, after falling in love with the human women they taught them things the weren't supposed to know/weren't ready to know. Like warfare, how to make weapons, magick, homeopathic medicine, and so forth. After that there was a huge war on earth and the angels who leaked the forbidden information to their human wives were punished and locked up in astral-prison. The women were killed.
Takes "upstairs/downstairs relationships" to a whole new level doesn't it?
Leyla_
I think the problem here is the use of the word 'angel'.
Really we are just using this term as a kind of umbrella term to describe a whole load of very high level beings.
I think people shouldnt get hung up on one single description of them, or go by the definition from the bible and so on.
most religions speak of high level beings. The bible uses the term 'angel', which we use for convinience, as it is culturally well known in the west.
In the east, Buddhists use the term boddhivista or Bosatsu, which ammounts to pretty much the same thing, i cant remember the Hindu words.
However, Boddhivistas or angels refer to a huge variety of different beings, some of which radiate pure love etc and other types of being who are much more functional in their nature and approach.
Like people, I think there are a huge variety of high level beings of all diferent types to whom we apply the term 'angel'.
you have encountred one such variety. There are others, many people HAVE had encounters with high level beings who DO radiate pure love.
It appears however that the beings who contact you are doing so because it is their approach you need right now, even if it doesnt make sense to you, they know more about what you need than you do.
Again I would reccomend Monroe's books as he came across a wide range of high level beings as described, some of which found emotion quite alien. Others were indeed radiators of 'pure love'.
He also found that this energy 'pure love' IS the most important and powerful energy in the universe.
One thing Monroe learned was that one of the ultimate goals of human life was to learn to become a radiator of pure love, rather than simply a receiver as we are at the moment. Maybe this is why simply melting in front of high level beings is not what is always wanted.
I remember Frank mentioned beings he met who caused this effect without realising it (their loving radiation caused him to 'melt') and he actaully had to ask them to turn it down a bit as he found it impossible to converse with them.
Perhaps they have learned from this!
Douglas
"I remember Frank mentioned beings he met who caused this effect without realising it (their loving radiation caused him to 'melt') and he actaully had to ask them to turn it down a bit as he found it impossible to converse with them."
Fascinating! Monroe experienced exactly the same thing! I'm very glad to hear others have been verifying his work, because it would be great to know for certain that Monroe reported accurately; his views on the nature of reality and existence have filled me with a lot of hope.
Monroe's books sound fascinating!
What is his full name, and could you recomend some titles?
Robert A Monroe. He only wrote three books - Journeys Out of the Body, Far Journeys, and Ultimate Journey. You must read them in that order.
I cannot recommend them enough, they're what got me interested in projection, but projection is only the beginning. Monroe went so far beyond the 'simple' OBE you wouldn't believe it. By far the most astonishing books I've ever read in my life. [:)]
Yeah, there are also many others out there who have been following up on Monroe's findings. especially after making use of the Monroe institute, founded by him back in the 70's. Its still going I believe. I like it because it is in no way any kind of 'cult' or whatever. the insitute simply trains in how to enter or 'focus' on the astral. After that its up to you.
The main guy at the moment who has followed on from the 'Monroe school' is a guy called Bruce Moen. He was just a 'normal' guy who had a remarkable vision, (during an accident I believe). His vision suggested that there was more to life than just the physical world. Afterwards he attended the Monroe institute in order to learn how to focus on the astral, and has went on to be an impressive explorer in his own right.
Monroe himself died around 10 years. In Moen's last book, he described how he and some others actually met up with the late Mister Monroe in one of the astral worlds, where he seems to be doing fine!
Douglas
Indeed, Moen has a fairly informative website at http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com - as a matter of fact, it was through his website that I found Astral Pulse.
TMI is still going, I have communicated with them via email. Their Hemi-Sync range is ever-increasing.
"In Moen's last book, he described how he and some others actually met up with the late Mister Monroe in one of the astral worlds, where he seems to be doing fine!"
I have heard that Monroe actually still has a hand in the running of the Institute! At the very least, he has been reported to be a guide to the Explorer Teams that work from there.
Gandalf - do you recommend Moen's books? Is there anything more to be learned, above what Monroe wrote?
To be honest, I havent read Moen's books yet but from what I've gathered from the website and from those who participate, they are very good. Moen himself seems like a nice guy, very much in the Monroe mould. Moen has even posted to the astral pulse forums on the odd occasion!
As far as I know, Moen's explorations tend to cover the same areas as Monroe, but Moen has built on Monroe's discoveries and focused on them in more detail.
So if you want more detailed info on some of the things Monroe discovered then Moen is your man.
I will get round to reading some of Moen's stuff at some point.
Douglas
Hi Leyla
In my life I have on several occations met angels, both in the physical as well as the spiritual. Your observations equals my own. I thought about it a lot and have come to the conclusion that angels have a different way of expressing emotion. In a human way they seem unemotional, but maybe they just have different emotions. In this life people in different parts of the world as well as timexpres(ed0) their emotions and feelings very different, just go to England and you will understand what I mean[;)].Could this be the same principle multiplied several million times?
Regards Mustardseed
Nice one Gandalf, I'll be buying Moen's books post-haste then.
Bruce Moen is a nice guy who admits that he doesn't do "classic" astral travel...more use of the imagination..eg it is alleged that some pranksters went to a workshop of his and said they were disturbed about their dog's status in the afterlife...Bruce "resuced" it and passed on the message..whatever "woof" it was..als there was no dead dog......I do not go for this myself but if it makes folks happy...
They must be rich pranksters then, considering how a ticket to a conference costs about $275!!!
Anyway, although Moen has developed a technique using the imagination it is not as simple as just running through a mental exercise. Once developed fully it is more of a 'focused awareness but while still in the physical body', half way between astral and physical if you like.
Critics also have a problem when it comes to 'imagination' a word that is often thrown around with little idea as to its true nature and potential. The power and nature of the imagination underpins the philosophy of Monroe AND Moen, as for them, the imagination is the bridge where the human mind and the astral meet.
Imagination creates reality in the astral. The very act of making up the story about the dog and the guys willing Moen to find it (which they would be) would be enough to create a thought form of it. If Moen is then pointed towards it he will find it. If this story is true then it doesnt mean anything other than that Moen can be fooled, which he has admited himself.
The key to focused awareness is practice. With practice and experience you are meant to get better at telling the 'real' from the 'imagined'. However, even the best of us can still make a mistake.
Luckily, we know that more often than not Moen is on target as there is a large record of verified cases (not just Moen but others) where the dead person has revealed information which is later verified, such as telling relatives to look in the attic where they will find a stash of letters under the floor etc etc, which is then validated.
The dead also reveal info known only to relatives, which can sometimes be suprising or shocking!
So yes I think Moen's technique works, however there is a higher risk of failure and harder to master although so is conventional OBE.
Douglas
Douglas
You description of 'Imagination' sounds very much like Hank Wesselman's technique of guided meditations, his technique to altered states of awareness.
I'm sure there are others.
Leyla, a few random thoughts on reading your post and the responses.
In Monroe's books it seemed like most of his guides were actually his 'higher self' which were different entities from true angels.
If these guides are a part of yourself, would that have any meaning in the context in which they appear?
I think the guide aspect I have met is not a loving and personal being but one that makes me feel like I am safe and in good hands.
In my POV, roughly, love is that which facilitates my growth.
It doesn't need to make me feel all warm and fuzzy, or be complementary in any way, though I will usually shy away from outright hurtful or attacking behaviour. But, if someone shows up, and out of that interaction I become a bigger person, even if they appeared indifferent - and often indifference is the point, for then I know my reaction is entirely from me, it makes me think - then I will consider that person to be there out of love.
Such was the case in my meeting with an angel.
It's not always just about me and my tender feelings, and those who are 'nice' are not guarenteed to have my best interests at heart.
Maybe we need different guides at different times. One of my guides was very formal.. virtually giving me text book lessons on OBE (not that I could remember them in their entirety afterwards, but thats another story) In fact, he got pretty frustrated with me about my early astral pursuits, such as riding rollercoasters, bonking etc.
Meg xx
quote:
Originally posted by Leyla
My only experience with my personal guides was disappointing because I did not find the warmpth, or love, or bliss that is supposed to be found with heavenly beings.
They seemed like royalty, or military, and wanted a sort of "status report" on my development. They were "checking up" on me.
I knew immediatly these were high upper dimensional beings and did not sense anything negative about them, the spitituality was amazingly pure.
pure but cold.
This is the part that gets to me:
I recognized them at once and knew I had been with them many lives before, but when I ran to embrace them, as you would embrace a loved one you haven't seen in a long time, they immediatly impressed upon me a sense of "formality."
why?
I have heard that upper level angels have a "loving detatchment."
That worries me. Is that what we're supposed to strive for, ideally? No real highs or lows, just detatchment. Strictly controlled emotions?
I thought before I met them, that heaven as supposed to be about love. That there is a sense of pleasure that goes along with purity. And that's not what I found.
I have been disappointed ever sense.
Help anyone?
This happened to me also although it might be a little bit different. Once I was awaken during the night by this big black and gold man or something. He looked a little bit angry and very determined. He said Come on! and tried to pull me out of my body. At first I was so scared and surprised that I probably produced the biggest scream in the astral world, but then I relaxed and tried to help him take me out. But it was all disturbed at that moment because of a different reason, so I didn't leave my body then. But before that I once called my guides and two creatures appeared. They seemed very nice and friendly. I don't know if the black and gold one could have been one of the others. It's possible
Were these really angels? Did they introduced themselves as such?
Angels are supposed to be the emanation of the Divine, or in other words they are messangers of God. I think it is Christianity, New Age and NDErs who introduce this picture of Angels who radiate pure love. In the Bible (Old Testement) there is even an Angel of Death who is sent upon Pharao and all Egypt. Angels can take human appearance or any other appearance.
The most common Angels who is depicted in visions, dreams and such in the Old Testement is Gabriel, the Angel appointed over dreams. He is the one who interpret the prophetic dreams of Daniel for example.
Leyla, Did you get any names from these "beings"?
Shaman,
As I said, I dont think we should get to hung up on the term 'angels' and try to find one single definition of them from any one particular religious context.
In reality all religions have ideas about higher beings, going by various names. Most people in the west, whether Christian, Muslim, Jew or 'New ager', whatever, use the term 'angel' as it is a convinient word within our western cultural context.
In the east such as in Buddhist terminology, such beings are known as Boddhivistas or Bosatsu, and are described as radiating pure love (the diference baing that *most* boddhivistas were once human at some point in their development, although not all).
The umbrella term 'angel' that we use covers a WIDE RANGE of different beings some of whom seem to radiate 'pure love' as described and others who come across quite differently, however they are all extreemly high level.
Some people seem to have an urge to categorise everything neatly so we know what everything is and its nature and attributes (a common human urge) but I think in reality things are a bit more complicated.
Douglas
LOL Meg!!!"bonking" in the astral plane indeed! have absoutely nothing against this concept but think that the old adage out of the Bible is probably true.."we are not given in marriage"..ie we are all "cold and impersonal" in a PLEASANT way when we finally enter the astral state...
They didn't have to give me their names. I already knew their names. Remember, I have been with them several lives before.
Everybody is getting hung up on "what is an angel, exactly" so lets just call them guides. I was very aware that they had charge of me. I was their ward.
It's not that they were unloving or uncaring. They were, but in a formal sort of way.
And I am really irritated with the people who popped up to suggest that they don't love me, and maybe this is because I'm not a good person, and so on.
From what I understand, there are groups of angles...er...guides, who have certain goals in mind that they want to achieve. When they find a soul on earth of their same 'type' with the same goal they contact that person.
Guardian angels do not protect you from harm. They are not there to make choices for you, support you, or ease the suffering of life.
They guard your freedom. With divine unbreakable power they allow you to learn from life uninterrupted. They are "formally detached" so you are not interrupted by them either.
To support you or positively intervene in your affairs is to give you reason to love them. This would withhold you from an important lesson. To learn love without reason, action without support, is to learn divinity. This they must let you do for yourself.
And you may do so whenever you choose.
Okay my first post on this astral pulse, feels good to register to this place!
If you saw a real ANGEL, here is what Sylvia Browne has to say about them from one of her books it reminded me of.. (it's nearly word for word, but not completely).
You saw a separate species, created by God to be our messengers and protectors, His divine legion of activists. They never incarnate, and have no gender. They never speak, even to each other, their comm. is exclusively telepathic, and not a single sound is ever heard from tehm except when they're singing their magnificent hymns of praise to God's glory in the Hall of Voices.
Other info that may tie in with the lack of emotion...
They don't socialize, wrok, research, study or participate in the gregarious, integrated lives we live at Home. They stay to themselves, exuding their powerful love wherever they go but not subject to the same range of emotions and varieties of personality that we are. Without ever looking grim or unfriendly, they never change expression, never smile, never frown, never laugh, and never cry, because they've never experienced any feeling except pure, uncompromised devotion.
Well, that's enough about angels i suppose, although there is more, hehe.
I do believe they have both emotions as well as gender
"They are not subject to the same range of emotions and varieties of personality that we are."
Yep, that part sounds right.
They approached me as an adult would approach an over-excited child. It was clear they though of themselves as my caretakers. In our view, children laugh easily, cry easily, make a lot of noise and are generally over emotional. Maybe angels feel the same way about humans.
I like sylvia brown but a lot of her ideas are christianized. My angels were male. There is no question.
One of the basics of mysticism is that gender is everywhere. As above so below. This world is a mirror image of the astral one, if gender is here then gender is there. And for a reason. It takes two polar forces to create life. Spiritual perfection lies not in the absence of opposing forces but in the balance of them. All the forces in the universe work in balanced pairs: acids and bases, protons and electrons, from the tiny double helix of DNA swirling inside each living cell; to the polar magnetic forces that keep our entire galaxy spinning and suspended in balance.
Are guides cold and impersonal?...thats a very acute observation.
U: do you think I am cold and impersonal?
g: Well no, but I know what they mean, you seem a little detatched.
U: Feel now...tell me...
g: like a big hole inside of me, that goes down and down...really deep...*tears well up in my eyes.
U: What did you feel?
g: A very deep connection.
U: Smiling* and your experiences with beings who radiate Love...tell me..
g: They were so beautiful...it was hypnotic...and then they vanished.
U: What do you think happened?
g: Like I had lost myself and got sucked into their beauty, it was like falling in love.
U: and what does that say to you?
g: I can't hold that vibration?
U: Yes...but there is more..what else?
g: Its very hard to communicate in the state of love.
U: Yes *smiles
g: Thankyou
U: Smiles
"g: Its very hard to communicate in the state of love."
Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of it.
Hi. I had the same experience you mentioned in your post about your guides being pure but "detached". They were almost elecronic sounding. Don't take it to heart. It seems your guide had the same purpose with you as mine had with me and that was to convey a personal message to you, not to immerse you in deep cosmic love which will come to you in time.
My only experience with my personal guides was disappointing because I did not find the warmpth, or love, or bliss that is supposed to be found with heavenly beings.
They seemed like royalty, or military, and wanted a sort of "status report" on my development. They were "checking up" on me.
I knew immediatly these were high upper dimensional beings and did not sense anything negative about them, the spitituality was amazingly pure.
pure but cold.
This is the part that gets to me:
I recognized them at once and knew I had been with them many lives before, but when I ran to embrace them, as you would embrace a loved one you haven't seen in a long time, they immediatly impressed upon me a sense of "formality."
why?
I have heard that upper level angels have a "loving detatchment."
That worries me. Is that what we're supposed to strive for, ideally? No real highs or lows, just detatchment. Strictly controlled emotions?
I thought before I met them, that heaven as supposed to be about love. That there is a sense of pleasure that goes along with purity. And that's not what I found.
I have been disappointed ever sense.
Help anyone?