Converting LD's to AP's

[Major Tom]

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[catmeow]

Hello MajorTom

Thanks for the advice.  I've read your post carefully and what I think your saying is to concentrate on body sensations, such as getting the "vibrations" going and then doing a traditional sort of "lift off", rather than a "beam out".  I'll give this a try.

In actual fact, I've tried to get the vibrations going in the past, and have actually succeeded in doing this.... but I always seem to get too excited once the vibes start and this seems to prevent the experience going any further.

I do believe that LD's are different from OOB's.  I kind of suspect that we have a type of dream consciousness, which is basically taking place in or around the physical body and perhaps at the same time have a more expanded OOB consciousness which is taking place in the astral "body".  The trick is, at the time of separation, to actually make the jump into the OOB state/astral body, rather than simply staying in the LD state/physical body???

Joe

[coral1]

Hi catmeow,

Welcome to the forum!Major Tom`s description was excellent and I use basically the same technique with good results.I agree it`s easy to lose sight of the uniqueness of these experiences by getting to caught up in trying to categorize everything.In my experience the non-physical environment is very fluid and doesn`t lend itself to easily separating OBE, LD,and AP.I believe there are alot more similarities than differences.

On another note, many of my projections transport me to the house I grew up in.I`ve heard other people mention this as well.

Happy Trails

[catmeow]

Hi all

Thanks for the extra advice!  I did try this morning but didn't get into the right state.. but will keep on trying.. it will happen soon.  I'll try the falling inward thing next time.... (thnx MajorTom)

I agree that these days the trend is to treat all altered states, whether LD, OBE or whatever as having a reality in their own right... and I think this is basically correct.  But the more "useful" realities are "concensus realities" in which two or more consciousnesses share the same environment and experiences.  I think this is more true of OOB's than LD's.

Not to say this doesn't happen with LD's to some extent - I have had LD's which others have shared (They saw me in their dream and confirmed my LD actions... erm and were a bit panicked by it).  Which is kind of interesting...

Coral1 - I was v interested to hear you say that you often find yourself in the house you grew up in... same as me!  I wonder if anybody else has this experience?

The other thing about my LD's is I never ever see my own body in bed!  I do look for it... but either it's a lump under the sheets or else the bed is empty!  Anybody else?

MajorTom is basically correct - what I am trying to achieve is a more classical OOB experience - heightened awareness, see own body, clearer senses etc....  I'll keep trying

catmeow aka joe

[Comokisadore]

Hello catmeow,

if you can have LD's, then you are already in the right frame of mind to acheive OBE's, the only time I project is when I can have LD's and am more in tune with my higher self.

I reccomend, you tire your physical body, by going running in the afternoon, and then attempt to project. Be Patient,Passive, and Consistant.

If your perfectly balanced with your higher self, you won't even need any energy visualization, sensations etc. all you need is a focused thin thread of conciousness while your physical body shuts down.
Good progress, keep it up.

-Como

[Major Tom]

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[catmeow]

Hi MajorTom

Yes I think it would be good to construct an experiment in consensus reality.  I think possibly the best would be to get a friend with the same LD/OOB ability and agree to meet up!  Compare notes afterwards.  It would also be interesting also to get, say, a deck of playing cards, pick one card out at random and place it on top of the wardrobe and then try to see it while projected?  Has anybody tried this?

Regarding false awakenings in a bedroom you used to sleep in... well yes I do this too!  In fact a good many of my LD's start from a false awakening like this...  Usually I realise the bedroom is wrong and it annoys me.. but it doesn't matter really...  as long as I get "out".

Re the "not seeing your own body"... this actually makes total sense if you think about it...  when in the astral we don't actually see the physical world but the astral reflection of it.  Since you are actually using your astral body at the time you would no more see your astral body on the bed than you would if you got up physically and expected to see your physical body on the bed!

Nevertheless... I would like to see it!

Right.. another question.

When I was a young kid... maybe 9 or 10, I used to have a spooky dream in which I was walking round my house at night.  Everything was dim and grey... and it was a bit like wading through a thick mist.  This was a bit unnerving... and I would reach for the wall-light switch to turn the light on.  But when I pressed the switch the light wouldn't come on!  Or else it would just glow really dimly....

A few years later when I had my first LD... walking round the house I wanted some light so I reached for the light switch and flicked it.  You guessed it!  The light didn't come on!  I flicked the switch a few times and kind of "forced" the light to come on but it would only glow dimly...  When this happened in my LD I realised the significance (in my LD)...  whatever state I was in during this LD... it was the exact same state I had been in during the misty dream a few years ago.

The exact interpretation is that this was in fact an OOB, but my level of consciousness was basically dream-like.  Because I couldn't actually interact with the physical light switch, my dream-like mind interpreted this as if I could flick the switch but the light wouldn't come on.

This is now an indelible part of all my LD's - I can flick light switches but the light doesn't come on!  Once again, has anyone else noticed the same thing?

catmeow

[catmeow]

btw MajorTom... your idea about eye movements...

I actually think that there is or was a research program using this technique.  It was mentioned in a documentary here in the uk a couple of months ago.  Can't remember the exact details, but eye movements were being used to allow LD'ers to communicate with the researchers in some way.  Ah! I remember now... An eye signal was agreed beforehand which the LD'er would use to alert the research team that he was now lucid.  They would then monitor his EEG patterns to see if it changed.  I'll have to look it up on the web...  This could be extended as you say perhaps, to get the LD'er to communicate perhaps a number that the team had set up for him to read...  seems like could have some intersting possibilities

catmeow

[catmeow]

ok... i'll check out the island...!
catmeow

[Matthew Kingsley]

The only difference between a lucid dream and astral projection is being
aware of the astral body separating from it's physical/etheric counterpart.
When the separation is observed it's deemed an astral projection and when
one wakes up in a dream state it's deemed a lucid dream. The only difference
being awareness of the separation.

One of my old tricks to turn a lucid dream into a astral projection is to
physically feel for the physical body and partially end the lucid dream.
When I can feel, just for a moment my physical body laying in bed but I
haven't awoken up all the way I INDUCE A FALLING FEELING. This falling feeling
is important because it tricks your mind to fall back in the trance state.
Don't move your physical body at all, this will end the experience. If you
didn't get enough of the physical feeling of laying in bed, do it again. Feel
for your physical body laying in bed. And when your almost awake, induce a
falling feeling. Like the type of feeling you get when your car goes down
a small hill on a highway and your stomach drops. Hold that feeling and
You'll get the trance state. From there imagine rolling out of body. And there
you have it. An astral projection with the awareness of separation. Of course
this is only with the astral/dream body. Keep in mind this is a dream state.
You could never get your real-time double to roll out of it's physical/etheric
counterpart.

Sincerely,

Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca

[catmeow]

Matthew..

Thanks for the tip... I like the idea of falling I'm sure i can get something out of that.

btw - erm what do you mean by the "real-time double"??!

catmeow

[catmeow]

Hello all...

New member, first post.  

It's a very simple question.... how do I convert a Lucid Dream into an Astral Projection??!!!!

I've been LD'ing now for over 25 years and can do this more-or-less at will.  It works best when I wake up in the morning after say 5 or 6 hours sleep.  As long as I stop myself from fully waking I can sort of get back into the dream state very effectively.

The technique(s) I use sound identical to AP.  One technique I use is I kind of "beam" myself across the room over to the wall by the bedroom door.  When I sense myself standing by the door, I then actually feel the wall behind me with my hands.  This feels very real and fixes or "stabilises" the dream.  Often I can dimly see the room too.

I then just open the bedroom door and walk into the hall. At this point I "open" my eyes and can usually see very clearly.  Strangley, at this point I'm almost always in the house I used to live in 25 years ago as a boy, when I first learnt the technique.  I will quickly rush (float) down the stairs, go through the front door and fly out into the street.  I'll then have whatever adventure, but it always involes a lot of flying!

If the dream fades I can usually repeat the whole process a number of times before I fully wake up.

Now, I'm pretty sure that most of these experiences are just regular "dreaming" rather than OOBing.  Some have been extremely clear and real, but not quite enough to convince me I was actually OOB.

So the problem is this... how do I convert these LD's to AP's???!!!!

Any suggestions?[]

BTW - great site...!

Joe