Couple o' questions from a newbie

[LazyPanda]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to these forums, although I have been very interested in OOBEs for a long time and read up into the matter occasionally in my life.

Lately I have started my own attempts at leaving my body. The furthest I have been getting to so far is the part where the vibrations set in.
I am still not 100% sure these were in fact the renowned vibrations I keep reading about but I lack a better explanation for it. All I can say is that after several hours of lying still in bed, some sort of electrical surge and loud ringing sound suddenly overcame me. At that time, I wasn't really sure how to proceed though - whether I was ready to try and leave my body - and if so, then how.

On my attempts over the last week I had trouble even getting to the vibrations mentioned earlier.
What I can do reliably is lying still in bed until my limbs get numb and occasionally some sort of gentle swoosh goes through my body - similar to a cold shiver running down your back or the sort of feeling you might have when your body parts aren't properly supplied with blood. These don't feel very special to me though - it's probably the least oddness you should expect when you didn't move a muscle for hours.

So now I'm looking for a bit of help from people who already have experience with the procedure of exiting their bodies and maybe can help me out of a couple of questions that I have.

1. The reason I'm sceptical about my progress is that I never experienced a sleep paralysis so far (not that I want to in particular). I'm not sure whether that was the case during my vibrations part, as that felt overwhelming/highly distracting at best but not exactly paralyzing. I did not try, but I'm pretty sure I could have forced a movement if I had wanted to. And I'm also sort of sure that it would have moved my physical body and not my astral one. At this point I also started receiving heavy breathing problems - but again, probably not because I felt paralyzed - but rather because I got so tense that I "forgot" to breathe and had to start doing it manually. I guess this was a mistake and I should have proceeded to ignore my breath even if I felt like I'm going to choke?

2. After roughly estimated 5-10 seconds the vibrations passed and I felt as I did before them. After a good amount of minutes these vibrations returned for a second time - although they felt slightly weaker and somewhat ... distorted. After some seconds they passed again, without anything changing. Does this mean I have 'failed' at the stage where I'm supposed to exit?

3. When I relax, the feeling of numbness in my legs and arms can get very vivid, but not so for my torso and head - perhaps due to the constant breathing? Is this normal? I'm not sure if there's something wrong with my relaxing procedure or if I'm just too impatient.

Hope you can overlook my bad english and thanks if you read through everything.
I would be so glad if someone can help me out with my questions.

Lazy Panda

[Bedeekin]

Hi LazyPanda

"What I can do reliably is lying still in bed until my limbs get numb and occasionally some sort of gentle swoosh goes through my body - similar to a cold shiver running down your back or the sort of feeling you might have when your body parts aren't properly supplied with blood. These don't feel very special to me though - it's probably the least oddness you should expect when you didn't move a muscle for hours."

That seems like the relaxation wave just before Sleep Paralysis. I used to get a body flush prior to Sleep Paralysis many moons ago.


1) Sleep Paralysis is actually a misleading phrase. The paralysis isn't actually a perceived paralysis like when your limbs fall asleep or if you break your spine. It is actually an immobilisation of your skeletal muscles... and at a neurone level not at brain level. Signals still get through... these are staccato in nature. Pulsating and electrical. They can be very subtle; giving the sensation not unlike sleeping gas or when you stand up to quickly. Other times they can be violent and unbearable. Akin to a painless (sometimes painful) electric shock.

The nonphysical self can feel very similar to the physical self. There have been many times when I and others felt they were able to move. Only to find we were actually projecting and just took the physicality as normal movement.

2) Sleep Paralysis comes in waves. You experienced diminishing cycles probably because you hadn't napped before you tried inducing. You are already 'separated' once you slip into SP.

There is no such thing as failure in this practice... only progress. Anything you experience while investigating your own consciousness and the nonphysical is progressive learning.

3) when your body shuts down during falling asleep or during deep relaxation, your extremities are the first bits to be sensory neglected. 

It didn't even occur to me you weren't english. You write it better than most english people I know.

[LazyPanda]

Hi Bedeekin,

thanks for your reply.

I spent some time with the dictionary there - glad it paid off.


One more thing that occured to me and which I need confirmation on is the degree of wakefulness that is required.

Because on the night that I experienced these vibrations on I found myself drifting into sleep or letting my mind wander with "day"-dreams several times ("luckily" I did have a bit of sleep problems that night). The whole procedure of going to bed and experiencing the vibrations took almost 3 hours and I was roughly conscious maybe 75% of that time.

On some other nights, when my attempts failed, I felt fully awake almost the whole time but on the other hand this lead to me growing bored a lot faster, so I start having trouble to remain relaxed after as little as one hour.

What exactly am I supposed to do in the time of waiting? Concentrate on the blackness in front of my eyes or any other thought? Or should I try to not think anything at all? Or try to get as close as possible to sleeping without actually falling asleep? Am I allowed to daydream as long as I don't risk losing my awareness (for example about the place that I'd like to be at, if I became astral)?  


I hope I didn't take the saying of "mind awake and body asleep" too literally, because I simply assumed I need to be as conscious as possible and my body as immobile as possible.

[Bedeekin]

I thought you would have to have had some sort of little sleep to get SP. It can be a little tiny sleep.

A decent sleep nap... an hour or so before you lay down and actually induce brings tremendous results. Also... you won't need to lay still for more than 20 mins.

A way I do it... although I imagine you are going to get a million methods at your disposal as to listen.

Lie quiet.. breath from your diaphragm and repeat a sound, name or word in your head. Only in your head. Repeat the word over and over again. What you need to do is give yourself a task in your mind that requires a bit of concentration.

Your mind will drift off... as soon as it does... bring it back to repeating the word.

When you bring your attention back from your mind wandering this should tip you over the edge into Sleep Paralysis.

[LazyPanda]

Thanks again, Bedeekin, you're very helpful.

I will try to put this into practice then.

[LazyPanda]

An update for myself, and whomever my journey to OOBEs may interest:

This is now my second week.

The swoosh that I mentioned earlier occured a lot more often and stronger though.
My limbs already were numb and heavy, this feeling in addition felt as if some animal had bitten me and there was some kind of hot, crippling poison immediately rushing through my body. I'm still not sure what others call this state (if it has a name) but I tried moving my foot and all I can say is that it took effort but it worked anyway.

I have yet to reencounter the intense electrical surge, though.
And I'm rather curious as I wanted to try moving during that state too, to see how I would react.

As for my mental condition:
Even though I may be a bit obsessed about OOBEs, I think I manage to remain relatively calm overall. I try persistently (1-3 times per day) but I am not too intent on forcing progress by any means.
When any stranger kind of feeling is about to set in, it takes a few splitseconds but I manage to reassure myself that "it is ok" easy enough.
However, because I do have to reassure myself, it feels as if there is still one slight hidden fear remaining, that I can't even attempt to pinpoint.

[LazyPanda]

Lately I have been experimenting with letting audio (calm music, mostly) run, while I try to project - nothing special, as I often go to sleep with music on.

Last night though I tried using one of these socalled binaural beats. (in fact, the one from this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMajWjlA4U4)
I set the audio to run for 3 hours but actually fell asleep pretty normally (guesstimation: after 30 minutes).

Nothing noteworthy in itself but I woke up pretty demolished... worse than when I really didn't get much sleep over a night.

Of course this could just be random, but I'm not sure what to make out of this - it seemed to at least produce some sort of effect, which sadly is more than I can say about anything else that I tried lately.
Should I continue or stop trying it this way? The audio file itself was nice listening to anyway...

(of course I'd be careful to not endanger myself while I'm so exhausted)

[LazyPanda]

I think I'll nevermind that for now.
I'm just coming from a 2,5 hour relaxing period and I had a great time with that audio, since I felt easily relaxed after as little as 15 minutes. Or maybe I'm just getting better at relaxing, too - as I barely noticed my breathing anymore. I tried as best as I could to simply forget that I have a physical body at all.

But I'm still having a bit of trouble with doing "the right thing" with my mind. I tried various things, like concentrating on a room I'd like to project in, or daydreaming again, focusing on the center of my head or just stare at the blackness in front of me. I tried mantras on different days - they didn't seem to work either. Eventually I just resorted to counting in my head, which I think had the best effect. Interestingly, at certain ranges of numbers it became highly difficult to count - meaning that I either lost track about which number I currently am at or finding the concentration to count to the next number was just so difficult that it felt like an eternity.

If I may describe:

0-50
I'm feeling increasingly relaxed. This appears to work, so I'm continuing happily.

50-100
Very difficult to concentrate. Counting very slowly.

100-150
Varying difficulty - sometimes steady count, sometimes mind drifiting away.

150-200
Discovered a slightly new feeling - like a variety of tingling going through my body.
My hearing got very distorted now, too. I heard a crackle nearby (trivial probably but no source that I could relate it to) and shortly after a very strange sound that sounded like a screaming monster. My best guess is that this was the squeaking wheel of a car outside. My heart went pumping mad - but I don't know why. All these events happened in a very short timeframe.

200-250
Calming down from my earlier experience. Feeling very aware again.

250-300
Fully aware.

300-350
Still aware.

350-400
Far, far too aware to make progress. Aborting for now and leaving bed.




So yeah - I would appreciate help again. :-/

The awareness problem happens way too often. It doesn't seem to matter how numb/asleep my body feels - I am too awake to make progress. And it intuitively feels as if I should somehow bring my mind closer to sleep as well.

[Lionheart]

 Lazy Panda, I use the count to 300 technique once in awhile when I have a hard time getting to sleep. I like your analysis of the time frames here. I notice I get my deepest sensations as I am approaching the 100, 200 and 300 second marks. But you need to learn to "passively" do this count. You seem to get a little too eager when you are approaching the end of the count.  Usually at the end of the count I am ready for blast off or have already nodded off. Do you visualize the numbers too?
I also use a counting method where I count up 1-10 and then back down from 10-1. I just keep doing this until I feel I am relaxed enough to let go of my physical focus. Normally I am doing this when I am in a lot of pain.
When you speak of being "too aware", are you meaning that you are too aware of your physical body or too aware that you are awake?

[LazyPanda]

Hello Lionheart,

I wasn't aware there was a specific counting technique - so it's not like I initially had a goal of stopping anywhere. I would have continued counting indefinitely if I had noticed making any "progress". At times, I visualized the number that I was counting, too - but not consistently since I didn't know if it's the right thing to do. After writing my earlier post yesterday I also tried something similar to what you mentioned - I stopped at every count of 10 and reassured myself that I would be able to project and was going to leave my body now. Saying that didn't help much, but breaking the counting up to smaller steps made it easier to recognize when my tiredness was almost about to overwhelm my mind.

Speaking of "too aware": I am not sure how to describe. For one, my body may feel heavy or frozen (not paralyzed) but yes - I'm still aware of it. And also - it feels like after I breached a certain point that I stop drifting to sleep. At first I thought this would be a good thing, because the risk of falling asleep was very low now - in fact, I couldn't have fallen into sleep even if I wanted to - and I tried. But when I could lie there unmoving for 2 or more hours and nothing would change anymore or happen, my mind would eventually get restless.

I mean I don't want to sound impatient. If it's just a matter of waiting more hours or continue what I do, then that's fine.
But it feels as if I'm not doing something right.

[Lionheart]

 I found this entire OBE experience thing to be quite a bit easier once I realized I wasn't in the body to start with. I just realized all I had to do was change my focus, not leave my body. By changing your focus, you can be anywhere you intend on being. It really is that easy. You just have to believe this to be true and you will have no problem Astral Traveling. This is the hurdle that most people can't get over. It is an entirely new way of thinking for most people, just think of your body as a vessel that you use for your physical sensations in this plane of existence on Earth. In the NPR you don't need this vessel to survive, because you are Conscious Energy!  

[LazyPanda]

Haha, oh well. That sounds challenging.
I guess I will still remain a newbie for a long time.

I really hope though that once I had this experience at least once, that I can understand much easier what I have to do or how I have to be, to get "there".

I see the risk when I try to imitate other people's procedures and it is not something that I really want to end up doing.
Because the expectations that I am building up are having a noticable effect on me. On my second attempt yesterday (after that weird "screaming" sound) I noticed that despite my best efforts to remain calm I still had shivers running down my back when I thought about that sound. Perhaps it was for the best that I didn't project yesterday, because who knows what I may have experienced with such a premise.

[Bedeekin]

You are experiencing Sleep Paralysis... ignore the feelings and focus your awareness on your nonphysical. Bring your hands up to your face and blow on them. Try reaching up to pull yourself out... These are all metaphors but they are very direct approaches.

[LazyPanda]

*sigh*
I'm getting the feeling I'm bad at all this.
And I do feel kind of annoyed about myself to be here once again, with yet another question.

But yesterday I experienced those vibrations again - even though a lot more subtle compared to my first time. But it was clear to me that it was the exact same kind of feeling - a flickering through my body and a ringing sound in my head.

The only problem is that this feeling only appeared right after my mind drifted and I for some reason ended up imagining grimaces of dead, mutilated people - the kind of thing you'd expect from a bad horror movie. After all, I didn't quite want to get into an OOBE while focusing on demons as soon as I project and risk getting scared off this whole topic for good. At least not for my first time.

The vibrations however ceased away, as I forced myself to imagine nicer things, so it once again seems I did the wrong thing.

Is there really a risk I could have ended up in a 'bad place' if I had managed to project then and there?
Or should I really accept whatever I see, next time?

[Lionheart]

 Hi LazyPanda. Start your session with a positive mindset and you will find a positive experience. Remember thought = action here, so if you hear something and think oh no a Demon, you will find a Demon. You have to passively observe what you are seeing and feeling with an air of curiosity. Don't try to create anything yet, just get familiar with the sights and sounds, better known as the "sign posts".  Patience is your friend here!  

[Bedeekin]

Yeah... play with it. You can get to the state regularly it seems. I actually spent months experiencing SP before I actually did anything. Although for others it is instant. Just keep getting into that state and learn to push yourself deeper into it.

[LazyPanda]

There are quite a lot of things to observe and learn.

I managed to experience medium-strength vibrations again yesterday and (as planned) I attempted to move my arm. Well, unsuprisingly perhaps, I wasn't able to and I tried with real force. Before that, everything was normal - I'm beginning to think that what I called vibrations so far, is simply the sleep paralysis setting in with hypnagogic effects (the ringing sound in the head, which actually sounds like a wave - going up and down in pitch I think).

In almost all cases that I experienced these vibrations, it usually felt as if I just 'woke' up. As if my mind fell very shortly into sleep and still managed at the very last moment to prevent being gone for good. Not sure how to explain this properly, but that's quite hard to reproduce if it really were the case.

Also noteworthy is that I usually sleep in a cowered position on my side, yet relax in a lying one. I can relax for more 2 hours without anything noteworthy happening, but whenever I switch to lying on my side after that, these vibration effect can set it in after as little as 10 minutes.

In the meantime I notice improvements in my relaxation techniques and breathing control - so everything goes according to plan, it would seem.

[Bedeekin]

I'm beginning to think that what I called vibrations so far, is simply the sleep paralysis setting in with hypnagogic effects (the ringing sound in the head, which actually sounds like a wave - going up and down in pitch I think).

yeah... you are right there. That's what the 'vibrations' are.

[LazyPanda]

yeah... you are right there. That's what the 'vibrations' are.

Uh, oh, well then. So far, I have been under the misconception that sleep paralysis does not have a direct connection to these vibrations which I thought were effects produced by the astral awareness.

But it's all good. Now I just have to analyze these vibrations further. Because so far they have always ceased away after some seconds and everything was as it was before that again. Perhaps I'm not calm enough, so it will take more time getting used to.

At least I haven't experienced anything scary again.

[Bedeekin]

Sleep Paralysis is just a term applied to the state where we are awake yet our body system is asleep. This state gives arise to vibrations... from swaying, electric buzz to an overwhelming rush.

Don't get too hung up on labels and maybe don't analyse body sensations too much.

You need to be focusing on becoming not physical.

[LazyPanda]

What would I do without you guys!  

Reached vibrations in roughly 2 hours, just now. And I certainly am starting to make out some of the factors that influence me in getting this far.
But that's not why I'm here.

I am completely at loss about what happened next.

No moving, no fighting, no fear, I just 'surrendered' to the vibrations, as I read somewhere on this forums. Overall, I think they were pretty much like the first time I experienced them. Except there was no breathing getting in the way, and even though it seemed loud - it didn't feel scary or annoying anymore.
This seemed to intensify them, and before they ceased away again, everything I perceived started becoming very, veeery hazy. It might have been imagination or wishful thinking but I felt very faintly as if I suddenly had an extra (or rather - different) pair of arms, very slightly above me. At loss about what to do further, I imagined a sort of more distant friend in hopes of appearing near them - failed, nothing happened. I imagined family members next room to appear near them - failed again. Confused enough, I tried to simply get out of body, sort of. Well, that certainly triggered something, as I felt spinning horizontally - quite fast. Another rotation vertically lifting myself out of bed. Vision of my (or some other) room appeared - everything was dark but still high contrast in a way. And now I couldn't even attempt to make out any details about this room before everything was fading away again. Everything was roughly cut off when I attempted to shout/think (I don't know which one I tried doing - they felt like doing the same thing) about "clarity, now!" as I had also read somewhere. And I was lying in bed again.

With all that said, and as strange as it may have felt - I don't think this really was an OOBE. I know I wasn't fully conscious during this event. If I would have to put a number on it - maybe 50% - barely enough to think and remember. I say 50% because for example when I tried "leaving" my body, I can't remember the rotating to be my own idea. It's just something that I suddenly did automatically. And it worked too easily too, considering I just did a completely random attempt at "leaving" my physical. It also was a bit nonsensical - because after all I sort of already felt disconnected from my physical body.
It all sounds a bit too much like wishful thinking on my part. It did feel very strange though which is the only reason I can't just say that I was dreaming and put a stamp on it. Actually, I may have been lucid dreaming, which would be something interesting for me too - but I wouldn't know the difference between any of those. However, if I was lucid dreaming and thinking of loved ones - shouldn't that have affected the dream then?

Everything felt too "neatly in place" to be blamed as hypnagogic effects, too. From the very few things I experienced in this event, nothing felt weird or chaotic in that sense. Or maybe I just don't know what they're supposed to be like, since I rarely experienced those, so far.

The only thing pointing me to a projection is that I felt very disconnected from my physical body, although even that isn't saying much, because it happened anyway, after the vibrations were gone. I wouldn't feel it all anymore, but I knew where it was.

So how strong is the likelihood of hallucinating or dreaming at this stage? This was too strange of an occurance to be called projecting, in my opinion. It was not as clear as I expected it to be - even for my first time.

The more time I let pass, the more it all feels unreal, which is why I'm writing this down immediately.
Sorry for the wall - I would still be glad about someone reading and lending some insight, though.

A bit of stretching and back to bed - having another go at it.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
You should have shouted yee haa and strapped yourself on this rodeo ride. Seriously though, its the zipping around we all read about that beginners or successful beginners get to experience. A few more and you'll get the feel of it. Its not unlike riding a highly strung horse for the first time. You both need to understand each other.
Keep at it, youre doin fine.

[Bedeekin]

Haha... that's awesome.

Next time you feel your nonphysical arms... reach up and grab a rope to pull yourself out... or better still rub your hands together and blow on them. This is an amazing anchoring method as it also encourages 'vision'.

It was quite funny reading that LazyPanda. The way you scrambled to get out... spinning etc. 

[LazyPanda]

Haha, yeah, I think I was just dreaming. Because something similar happened, a couple of moments ago.

I was struggling with vibrations for quite some time. If you want, you can call it transition into sleep paralysis, although I don't see what this excessive feeling of being electrocuted does have to do anything with sleep or paralysis. What I know is that it does cripple my limbs, because it feels like it takes an incredible effort to move my arm by even just the tiniest of millimeter. I "tested" it, mainly because at one point my left arm felt like rolling by itself and falling down the bed, although I know that it probably wasn't moving at all.

Well, actually, now that I mentioned time... the whole procedure took 1,5 hours. At roughly 1 hour and maybe 10 minutes, the vib... sleep paralysis started kicking in and a fight ensured about whether my somehow stubborn subconscious or the paralysis would eventually dominate. No real importance, but I like to keep track of time to see whether I improve at meditating and getting to the "important stages" faster. Apparently I do. A couple of weeks ago, nothing happened after 3 hours of meditating - now I can somewhat reliably get into sleep paralysis in less than 2 hours.

But on to the event itself:

A few moments after the vibrations passed, I gained vision. Bright, blueish (in the middle of the night) and a lot clearer than last time. But I was unable to move from the spot of my bed. Funnily, I could raise and look at my right arm though - I think I saw a very faintly ghostly shimmer of it - it felt sort of hard to see. I tried to move forcefully, I shouted that I want to be able to move, tried the rope technique, forgot about the handrubbing (sorry, Bedeekin -_-) and eventually shouted for help from my guide.

After a very brief pause where I don't remember what exactly happened, I suddenly found myself standing out of bed - still in my room - but outside wasn't the city anymore - apparantely some of the walls of my room were missing and it was surrounded by a vast sea now. My room also looked a bit changed - more lofty I suppose - it suddenly had greek pillars in it for example. And there was a huge bird calmly flying outside, with golden feathers and its head made out of diamonds. I was able to differentiate between thinking "are you my guide?" to which it didn't react and next, saying/shouting the same thing to which it simply responded with "yes". I think I was still too stunned by the beautiful environment that I found myself in because it took me a while to ponder about my next question. Before I could formulate anything, everything was fading to black again and I found myself waking up in bed.

So again - I don't remember being fully conscious during all this. I do remember it roughly as something that maybe happened a week ago. Which means I know very clearly that it happened - I know that I was "there". But on the other hand I don't have the full confidence that the actions that "I" did and thoughts that "I" had were really my own or just from my imaginative self in a dream. The real me for example would probably had asked whether this was a dream or "real" before asking the bird if it was my guide. Also this "blueish, bright" vision that I had could be because after my last experience I read up on the forums how other people's vision during OBE is and those were the words they used to describe it. And the last clue would be that I didn't see my physical body - I never even vaguely gazed in the direction of where my body would lie - the thought of doing that didn't even occur to me. And the type of some of the details that I don't clearly remember anymore (like how did I finally get out of my bed?) strongly lead me to believe that it was all just a dream.

A beautiful dream anyway - even as short as it was.

But how do I get there? When is the time for me to project? After my sleep paralysis has finished - it felt like a very short time after which the vibrations have ceased and then the described event took place.

[Bedeekin]

During Sleep Paralysis... as soon as it hits you... make a move to pull yourself out or rub your hands together. Don't wait for it to be over... this is the 'gateway' state... the opening. You are detached.