Neurologists claim they can trigger OBE's

[Moderneboy]

infact I think the ENTIRE article is made up. Here is another piece of it:

Day One of the Meeting - Part 2
 
  Dr D:   Ladies and gentlemen, I trust you are all fulfilled now, and
  since I have been "interrogated" repeatedly by many of our distinguished
  guests, I hereby make the official announcement that Chicago-style pizza
  and beer will be served on Friday night only. We don't want any
  casualties before our important Solstice events (boos and multi-lingual
  insults). Quiet please! Quiet! I need to make an important announcement.
  At lunch one of our American researchers informed us that the AMA and
  FDA are secretly preparing a campaign to target any unorthodox method
  of diagnosis, such as alternative medicine, kinesiology/muscle testing
  and radionics - even by licensed chiropractors, etc.
 
  Also, all devices using light, sound or EM frequencies in any way that
  alter brainwaves will be declared illegal.(1)  This includes all
  subliminal music, hypnosis, meditation tapes and self-help modalities.
  You should know that ahead of time, because they have sophisticated
  electronic technology to detect where, how and who is using these
  devices, and possibly raid them or confiscate them. Be aware and know
  about it now.
 
  Ms.Dr. C:  Will they also be targeting private individuals using
  brainwave altering props, techniques, etc?

Well since that CLEARLY isn't gonna happen it just goes right with my theory of it all being a hoax.

[Moderneboy]

Do ye think the article is a hoax as I can't stop thinking about it.

Sorry, just that I took a year off school and haven't been working for 4 months and have been doing nothing during the day and have just been thinking about Life all the time.....for 4 months non stop. And this theory has been in my mind most of the time, I think the reason I can't get it out of my mind is cos all of the spare time I have, and ya know, I say too much thinking can only be bad for you, WAY too much thinking like.

Like the implications of it demolishing physics, biology, theology and philosophy, I find that very disturbing.

and if all of the universe is in the brain, and it creates space/time (as the article says the brain is a space/time energy transducer) does that mean the core of the brain is free of space and time and it is actual immortal? And do you think intelligence would have been required for the brain to be a space/time transducer? Like space/time is all the stuff in the physical dimensions, and the 5th dimension and Spirit World are all non physical so I think when the brain dies it leaves the physical behind it and goes back to the non physical as the brain creates space/time.

But once again, if the brain creates space does that mean that the ACTUAL core of the brain is non-physical as it CREATES space which points to IT not being physical and therefore immortal, yet they measured it like it was ENTIRELY physical the way they pointed it out in the experiment, like if the brain dies, does that mean you will be dead? Yet I know that there are non-physical realms and I know that something which created the brain which in turn creates space/time is EXTREMELY intelligent and that something IS in non-physical realms, right? obviously.

Like WE DON'T know how to create space/time, and it is being created in the brain, so this points to the brain being seperate from our personality and thoughts and memories. And we aren't clever enough (if reproduction can't according to the theory) to create the brain, so, if humans can't then only a higher being can. Like if the brain ends, then it MUST have had a beginnig, as it is not eternal, and for something to have a beginning it MUST have a cause, and for something that is intelligent enough to create nature, sure wouldn't make Like worthless.

Like I KNOW there is an Afterlife, all humans believe in God, it is in our nature, and that shows that there is God in all of us, if humans weren't put up to scientific scrutiny, or fellas making money of religion or materialistic science, we would know there is such thing as God, it is built in in us. Like Science tried to disprov God with the big bang etc, that is why the clever human after a while subconsciously question if there is such thing as God, but if we we're wild and there was no materialistic scientists or religionists around then it would be default to believe in God, cos that would JUST BE the way, to know that it (or Great Spirit, as it has no gender) is there.

Like I know if I had a astral experience it would totally evaporate all these fears as the astral realm is real, in fact more real than physical dimensions, but since I didn't experience it yet part of my mind lingers about it subconsciously yet I know it is real, you know what I mean.

same with the theory from trufax, I know it is false, I shout it out yet my mind just won't let it go, even though it is is 10 years old (the article) and I have not heard a bit until the person on here posted it. Like the quotes I pointed out point to it being insane, and 90% of me accepts that, but the other part of my mind won't let me free knowing that these people have supposedly discovered something like this, somthing which demolishes physics, philosophy, biology and theology in a single clean blow.

Like I see genuised talking about philosophy yet these wackos in the article have supposedly discovered something that would just blatantly demolish that, just doesn't make sense.

Like surely the genuises would know if the brain was a space/time transducer.

Anyway thanks for Astral Pulse to allow a forum for me to post my opinions on.

And thank you for reading this.

[Moderneboy]

"The mind and the brain are two separate entities with a bio-magnetic link and lock mechanism which couples them. Rather like a television and a broadcasting station with a high-frequency radio link that couples the two. The mind is the broadcasting station, the television receiver is the brain and the radio signal is the energetic link."

That fills me up with a theory, if in the article of magnetics components of brain activity, do you think that:

if the brain is the receiver, then it would obviously show the universe where it is RECEIVING the message, like a TV shows a channel, but not where it originates, as the TV channel originates from the signal. ie The Mind.

so about the universe being in the head, in the astral realm, there is the akashic records, which holds any event future or past, and if the mind sees that, it is linked to the brain (like when the brain dies the mind goes away) so it would broadcast the signal to the TV (ie the brain) and the brain would be the hardcopy, which would contain all the memories temporarily (not forever), but only put them out on a physical level appearingly as only the five physical senses can sense the memories.

Also, does quantum physics teach that the brain is nothing but a hologram, so the about the universe being in the head, it could just be an illusion of the way the brain interprets reality, like the fish in the tank, only looking through one camera, or else it could be the experimenters wishes to see that, and you know mind over matter, so he could change that and think that a einstein rosen bridge is in the head.

BTW, i've a 134 IQ and a EXTREMELY open mind, so I would be thinking of new stuff all the time, so I think in time the stuff about the universe in the head will EVENTUALLY be disproved, like in 2 millenia, as if it has ever been proved though, like the webpage I sawit on was 10 years old and was in a article where everyone is insane but it's the implication of the theory that makes me frightened of it and make me, whether I want to or not, believe in it, even though it would be saying the scientists in it are wackos in voice, but on a more mental level, I feel I may have been scarred.

[Moderneboy]

Reports of  out-of-body sensations have been common throughout history. The Greek philosopher Plato was among the first to suggest that when the body dies and disintegrates, the soul migrates outside the body and continues to live. Characters in countless paranormal dramas have been resuscitated back to life and then speak about how they rose above their own bodies and watched others working feverishly to save them.

But rarely has the sensation been captured in the controlled setting of a laboratory - until now.

In a new study released today in the journal Nature, Swiss scientists describe how they were able to trigger bizarre, out-of-body experiences in a 43-year-old female epileptic patient while analyzing her brain with electrodes.

Accidental Discovery

Olaf Blanke, a neurosurgeon at University Hospitals of Geneva and Lausanne, wasn't trying to set off the sensations in his patient but was using electrical stimulation to map the activity of her brain in preparation for surgical treatment. But by recording the patient's reactions and matching them with specific electrodes, Blanke was able to pinpoint the region where out-of-body experiences seem to originate.

"We wanted [and needed] to be sure that what the patient experienced and told us was related to the actual stimulation," says Blanke.

When Blanke and colleagues activated electrodes placed just above the patient's right ear - a region known as the right angular gyrus - the woman began to have the strange sensations. Depending on the amplitude of the stimulation and the current position of the patient's body, her experience varied. Each of the patient's four episodes lasted about two seconds.

After one stimulation, the patient said she felt as though she were sinking into her bed and then she felt as though she were "falling from a height." After another stimulation she said felt like she was "floating" about 6½ feet above her bed, close to the ceiling. When she was asked to watch her legs during the stimulation, the patient said she saw her legs "becoming shorter."

Scientists have long tried to explain how people might have such sensations. Last December a British journal described a Dutch study that estimated 12 percent of cardiac patients resuscitated from clinical death experience out-of-body sensations such as seeing a bright light or their own dead bodies. In 1995, Michael Persinger, a psychologist at Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario, found he was able to trigger out-of-body and other paranormal experiences in people by exposing the right sides of their brains to a series of electromagnetic pulses.

Severe migraines, small strokes and epilepsy have also been known to trigger the condition and previous work has located the cause to the brain's right lobe.

Right Brain Condition

Blanke says his study shows the right angular gyrus has a specific role in triggering the feeling. This region is the part of the brain that scientists believe integrates visual information, including how the body is seen, and touch and balance sensations that all work together to create the mind's representation of the body.

He says out-of-body experiences "may reflect a failure by the angular gyrus" to integrate these different channels of information. Physical stress, or a lack of oxygen to the brain, he says, might trigger the kind of brain misfiring he induced in his patient.

Vilayanur Ramachandran, a professor of neurosciences and psychology at the University of California in San Diego, says Blanke's study makes sense since damage to the same region of the brain has been known to cause a confused physical sense of the body. But, he adds, it's rare to be able to induce the sensation.

"This is exciting because it shows this technology can be used to produce reversible lesions," he says. "This can be a powerful tool to study the condition."

But Robert Peterson, a person who regularly experiences out-of-body experiences and who has written about them in two books, argues no study can prove the sensations are just the result of a quirk in the brain.

"People who have these experiences are nearly always extremely firm in their convictions," he says. "No amount of evidence can convince the subjects that it wasn't 'real.'"

Persinger of Laurentian University argues it only illuminates how much is left to learn about the human brain.

"This is more evidence," he says, "that that great raveled knot - our brain - still has a lot of mysteries to unfold."

What do you think of it? I think it is a load of bollox, especially if the person has a feeling of actually BEING there not just experiencing it in a dream. If the say that it is ONLY in the brain then that is good news for us to fight against them as we can say that we can tell events that happened in a completely different location and it can be validated. Like if they said that the brain has the power to actually put you out of your body they might have a case but as for now they are chasing nothing.

I read this book that a man was having brain surgery and his heart and lungs were pumping through an external heart and lungs machine and there was ABSOLUTELY no electric impulses in his brain AND he eyes were covered completely and his ears were as well so he could hear nothing. After the operation he explained in devastating detail the operation that happened from his own point of view as in looking AT the Doctor.

Why didn't these Neurologists put in this infotmation into the report or that people can actually link up with each other duting OBE's by imagining each other or that OBEer's actually know whats going on it another room (through a sold wall).

What are your opinions on this?

[Potential]

When I was studying the Japanese language, I would frequently have OBEs, I'd find myself face in book- pen in hand while sitting at a desk.

Interestingly, the right angular gyrus plays a role in language learning, from what I have found out. So I figured learning languages might help induce them. Perhaps that is why certain Mantras play a part in OBEs.

[Potential]

Robert Monroe, one of America's forefathers on OBE research worked at a broadcasting station, and I believe that the radio frequency radiation may have played a part in his frequent OBEs. Though he never mentioned that as a possible source.

And most people today carry a cell phone, and they put it near their right ear when speaking, perhaps RF could be affecting the right angular gyrus.

[Ivanda]

I dislike one thing about skeptics--they tend to ignore many facts that would contradict their story and also on many occasions they are just not knowledgeable enough to talk about a particular topic.....

[Veccolo]

I dislike one thing about skeptics--they tend to ignore many facts that would contradict their story and also on many occasions they are just not knowledgeable enough to talk about a particular topic.....

This applies to many "believers" as well.

[Gandalf]

That's because everyone 'believes' in one thing or another, whether its science, jesus, or flying saucers.

Douglas[/i]

[FreeChile]

None of the testimonials regarding Natalia Demkina can be thought of as scientific valid until she submits to a double-blind test.  I don't believe any of her tests so far have gone this far--completely disconnecting the subject from the tester, and recording both hits and misses during the test.

I wouldn't take media testimonials too seriously.  It's all about the ratings.

[Potential]

I wonder, Supplemental Iron can be moved by an electromagnetic field, so if we used a pulsing electromagnet near the right angular gyrus, would the iron in the body collect in that area making a type of connection that would induce an OBE?

I am right now using the Hyper-Dimensional Resonator (pulsing electromagnet) right above my right ear, instead of at the navel. Earlier I did this and then went and laid down, I noticed an immediate sinking sensation with lots of hypnogogic visuals. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Ivanda]

This applies to many "believers" as well.

Ya, I know. But since I am mostly a believer, so I had to say it about sceptics  

[dbmathis]

I was reading this topic and I just had to start this thread back up. Sorry

So in regards to out of body experiences being dismissed as being purely created by the physical brain alone and nothing else, how do we explain Monroe's students who were able to interact with each other as a team when experimenting with this? 

Sure you can say that they were all a bunch of liars and that it never happened, but then you have to ask yourself what their motivation is for lying?

It basically comes down to what you believe to be true, but I myself have read almost all of Monroe's material and he seemed perfectly sane and so did his students. I know Monroe had nothing to gain from going public with all of this at the time that he did. He was already a successful business man who had everything he needed.

What about the Lifeline program where people were able to get information from people who had died and then validate the information.

I believe that Monroe was being honest.

What about things that you see in the astral plane that you have never seen before in waking life? Where does all of this information come form? Thin air? What's thin air? Would we call thin air the astral plane? There has to be a source for all of this information that people pull out of their you know what. For example at the Monroe Institute they have real live recordings of people talking through a monitor while out of there body. Sometimes relaying information from beings on the other side. The things they said were profound, and most of these people were not philosophers, they were just average Joes. So where did all of these profound speeches they recorded come from? Science can't explain it at the moment.

There are simply too many things that point toward a reality in which the brain and the mind are separate.

Honestly, I don't care if a scientist is hell bent of not believing in life after death etc... I will prove it to myself and live a life of peace and hope that one day the scientists join me.

Here's a final quote from one of the greatest scientist of the 20th century, who believed in more than the physical brain. You have to understand that there are good and bad scientists .

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."

-- Albert Einstein

Best Regards

David

[iNNERvOYAGER]

these people were not philosophers, they were just average Joes. So where did all of these profound speeches they recorded come from? Science can't explain it at the moment.

People using the scientific method will discover the physical component and process of OBE or consciousness projection.

Discoveries and exploration of the astral and beyond is accomplished by the projected consciousness.

[dbmathis]

People using the scientific method will discover the physical component and process of OBE or consciousness projection.

I'm sure they will, and it will be a true breakthrough and even more so if people realize that even though there is a physical component involved, there is much more that science can't see.

Discoveries and exploration of the astral and beyond is accomplished by the projected consciousness.

Very true, without the human left brain side it would be a different story. I don't think the explorative side dies with physical death however, there seems to be so much more. Stuff that I need to validate for myself.

Have you read any of Monroe's books? He speaks about NVC (Non Verbal Communication) which he describes as being an extremely efficient universal way of communicating.

He states:

We say that a picture is worth 1000 words, A color picture is worth 10000 words. A moving color picture is worth a 100000 or more words in the transmission of information and.or communication.

NVC takes a quantum jump beyond moving color picture. It is direct instant experience and /or immediate knowing transmitted from one intelligent energy system and received by another.