Danger when OBEing

[Scorptique]

Hello all...I'm very new to this forum, just registered 2 minutes ago. Anyway, I want to talk about just one danger with may occur in OBE. No, it's not getting lost, it's not getting possessed and it's not an NE hurting you. But something else.  

See, my granddad is quite an expert in meditation...he's been doing it for around 30 years already to keep healthy. So I was talking to him about OBE and he said in taoism, they dont recommend us to attempt it because while OBEing, the spirit is wondering around right? So if someone comes and jerk your body (the real one), or there was a very loud thunder, or someone gave you a shock or whatever....naturally, we will immediately get pulled back into our bodies. This pulling effect might be so strong, that when our spirit enters back into our body, it might not be in the proper place. For example: The part where our hands are suppose to be will be in our feet and so on, making everything get distorted. Then when we wake up, we may result in serious aches all over or even certain illnesses.  

So has anyone ever experienced that? I'm only a newb in OBEing, but I've experienced one successful OBE, where a friend pulled me out.  Another one which I was half way out...but then I started thinking of those scary NEs and went back into my real body and the last one was when someone was trying to pull me out, and I was too struggling to force myself out...i got too tired and gave up in the end.....

I still want to induce in more OBEs and cant wait for my next sleep paralysis to come. woohoo!  

[manuel]

no, never had any probs, other than the feelings of my head turning inside out as i awake, if you follow's franks model, conciousnes doenst go out or in or what ever, but shifts to a different focus, its pretty neat thing, but yeah, no problems for me.

[CaCoDeMoN]

I think that such problems can happen only when you believe they can.

[upstream]

Consciousness goes nowhere that's for sure. But attention moves and energy may follow it. Otherwise, without "exteriorised" energy, interaction wouldn't be possible. And I see no other way for perception than interaction.

Even if projection is possible without interaction all this doesn't matter when we come to talk about the dangers. As you can heal yourself though projections so you can gather "wrong information" too which then could destruct your system.

[Telos]

It's not possible at all to be harmed in OBEs.

You see that sword in my avatar? It's just for show.

[David Warner]

AP Friends,

How can you really tell if someone who has projected never came back hurt or screwed up mentally? Since I've been projecting for some serious time now, either I've been very lucky or have not yet reached a serious level of life/death experience during projection. My fondest wish is to remain intact with the physical until my time calls.

I've heard cases of people releasing the Kundalini and not ready for its energy - hence mental instability and physical breakdown. I know for fact and from experience back in the day when I first projected it did mentally beat me down and was physically exhausted. I did need to stop to catch my breath and focus in the physical realm.


Tvos

[Stevo]

When we 'OBE', it's not so much leaving, as extending our minds to include a new concentration. In other words, you can't get lost if you're not going anywhere. The mind infinately covers everything, it is where we place our focus that is any importance.

As for an answer to 'the voice of silence', healthy, unwounded, unpoisoned people who suddenly die would definately be in the news. Usually with headlines like this:

"BOY DIES WITH NO SCIENTIFIC CAUSE"

Maybe they keep it quiet, who knows. Otherwise maybe their bodies are taken over by immitators? Muahaha.

[David Warner]

Stevo,

I still have a difficult time with the term "phasing" and that consciousness does not travel and that we remain within our bodies.

Anyways, if you read up on the article from Pam Reynolds that I posted on her NDE. It does show that she was able to travel and witness with verification of the events "outside" her body. So how could consciousness not travel when she is clinically dead, no blood flow to the brain, oxygen etc..

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20559

I truly would believe the NDE subject since they experienced it w/o phasing.

Tvos

[Stevo]

The concept is the idea that the body and mind are more seperate than body and spirit. The mind is supposed to exist on a level that surpases both time and space. If time and space don't exist, then you don't have to go somewhere to get somewhere and take time doing it.

If you want to look at it in the idea of space, pretend that your mind spans over everything. It is a giant cloth over the very surface of the earth. It touches everything. Obviously this cloth doesn't have to move to get anywhere on the surface of the earth, it's already there.

To go back to more literal speaking, the body is more like a vessel for the mind to exist in this world. When someone 'projects' somewhere, they could create a new body to interact with the world if they pleased. The moment they left, the body would return to energy.

If you're still not convinced, look at it this way. If the mind is limited to time and space, it must have volume. The mind would then be limited to its own volume. It could also have mass. It's easy enough to measure mass. These are things we do not connect with the mind. Do you?

[upstream]

How can you really tell if someone who has projected never came back hurt or screwed up mentally?

Sure TVOS but there is no point in not telling the truth even to beginners. If they were not fully aware the possibility of getting injured then learning would not possible.

Perhaps our Higher Self is immortal, we are not. Our body and ego will die and our energy will dissipate all around the world. Many believe that securing the propagation of information we regard as our self requires skill and use conscious dreaming as a way to master it.

By the way, the right question is not about whether there are or aren't dangers in projection, but rather goes like: "Is it worth it?" If you answered with yes no danger should hold you back.

Stevo wrote:

If time and space don't exist, then you don't have to go somewhere to get somewhere and take time doing it.

Yes but you need time to remember that lol.

The concept is the idea that the body and mind are more seperate than body and spirit.

Could be that you meant consciousness instead of mind? Then I should fully agree with your post.
The same goes for TVOS, but he used the world consciousness instead of mind:

...she was able to travel and witness with verification of the events "outside" her body. So how could consciousness not travel when she is clinically dead...

Can you define me what is mind and what is consciousness?

[Mindless]

Well I could refer to some scientific observations and say we that don't move anywhere when crossing a room and be right! Now asserting this doesn't really help anyone and if someone where to take it into consideration it would basically just confuse them for a while. I know it helps to explain things in certain parts of phasing but you really don't need to tell everyone who says anything about moving that there is no movement, especially to someone who hasn't had a chance to research around here and get a little experience, and if they have I am sure they"ve heard it a thousand times   .

Besides we have gotten off the topic....no you can't come in the wrong way unless you want to and that might just be fooling yourself. If you came back too fast you will be disorientated and dizzy like you would if someone woke you up fast from a deep sleep but a little worse.

[Azalane]

I have been exhausted in deep space, completely alone, waiting for what seemed forever, thinking for sure I was dead  and given up only to... wake up in my body and spend ten minutes hugging it.

I think it was a lesson that everything is ok even when things are at their rottenness.

[pmlonline]

Dear Scorptique,

You are very correct in that a person can die while projecting out of the physical body.  Although, over the great span of time that particular teaching in Taoism has unfortunately changed considerable.  Every being must project out of the body every night.  That is a fact.  The person would die if they tried to prevent it.  It is also a known fact that a completely healthy person can die in their sleep.  The reason that any healthy person can die in their sleep, regardless if they are conscious or not, is because they are out of the body.  When I was kid, I knew a girl that died in her sleep.  The doctors could not give the parents any explanation.  I remember she was a very happy and healthy vibrant girl.  Although the odds of this happening is obviously slim and none.  You have a better chance of dying in a car accident truthfully.

Peace,
Paul

[pmlonline]

Dear friends,

I believe that consciousness is the flow of life energy.  This energy comes from a source of all things.  There is a flow of energy that comes from a higher vibration and the farther you track then you will see that there is no end; i.e., that this source of energy comes from an ever higher plane of vibration.  Also there is a source of energy that flows back up.  Consciousness is a flow of life energy.  Imagine the ripples in the ocean.  You can see small peaks traveling hear and there.  This is somewhat like consciousness except consciousness is more of in a state of vortex.  From the large picture it is kind of silly to think that you and I are separate from all things since we are but a current of liquid in a sea of liquid.  We are that vortex, yet we are also part of all the sea.  As you may know, there are many concentrated levels to our being.  The physical, the astral, the mental, etc.  Our consciousness survives death!  The material part of the physical dies, then the etheric part of the physical dies, unless you are an avatar.  Then after say 150 years the astral dies, unless you have reached that level of spiritual liberation.  Then eventually the concrete mind dies, but that is it.  The rest of our higher parts never die.  The Soul then recreates new parts (the Shim) and the rebirth process continues, unless this happens to be your last incarnation which means you have been liberated and you will continue a new existence in the higher planes.  When I say die, I simply mean the energy eventually dissipates and spreads into the universe.

As far as getting injured.  As long as you continue to play in this group consciousness then there are indeed certain rules.  For example, Karma.  Regardless how much you believe, you cannot overcome Karma as long as you remain in this group consciousness.  The reason is because you are not the only conscious being and these other beings in totality have chosen certain rules.  The reasons for these rules are vital so that each being can return back home, to the group consciousness while retaining the experiences of being so-called separate.  Even thought it is difficult to injure the astral, it can be done.  For example, if your astral is right next to a nuclear explosion then I can promise that your astral will be  g o n e !  IMHO there is nothing to fear while out of body.  Your higher self is always there to protect.  You also have guardians.  Do accidents happen on rare occasion?  Yes.  My advice is just take it easy and don't push it too far.  For example, until you are ready, then there's no need to visit to astral hells.  Don't go roaming around the top secret U.S. military bases.  On the other hand, most people while projecting out of body are usually in their own little world.  Most people will pick up here and there some glimpse of reality.  It is the more very advanced projectors that have learned to connect and remain focused in the group consciousness of the plane they are in and see so-called reality on that particular plane.  For example, a common projection may see a lighted candle, but instead it is an angel.

While projected out of body, consciousness is that flow of energy that exists in another local.  Consciousness can spread, it can separate by only a thin connection of the silver cord.

My 2 cents

Peace,
Paul

[Ben K]

Dear Scorptique,

You are very correct in that a person can die while projecting out of the physical body.  Although, over the great span of time that particular teaching in Taoism has unfortunately changed considerable.  Every being must project out of the body every night.  That is a fact.  The person would die if they tried to prevent it.

So why dont people pulling all nighters fall over dead?

It is also a known fact that a completely healthy person can die in their sleep.  The reason that any healthy person can die in their sleep, regardless if they are conscious or not, is because they are out of the body.

A completely healthy person can die ANYTIME, not just during their sleep. My father died in his sleep when I was 11, was it because he was "out of body"? He was completely healthy...

Nope, he actually had a brain anyeurism and Im sure every single person whos died in their sleep has died due to an "natural" cause.

When I was kid, I knew a girl that died in her sleep.  The doctors could not give the parents any explanation.  I remember she was a very happy and healthy vibrant girl.  Although the odds of this happening is obviously slim and none.  You have a better chance of dying in a car accident truthfully.

Peace,
Paul

slim and none?  

Il say it once for everyone to hear and it can be the last post of this thread:
OBEs CANNOT HURT YOU!

bottom line, period, end thread.

[pmlonline]

You are very correct in that a person can die while projecting out of the physical body.  Although, over the great span of time that particular teaching in Taoism has unfortunately changed considerable.  Every being must project out of the body every night.  That is a fact.  The person would die if they tried to prevent it.

So why dont people pulling all nighters fall over dead?

I already answered that.  Dying while asleep is a rare occasion but it has happened to people.

[Ben K]

im sorry, i ended the thread. Good day.

[Azalane]

Paul
I get what you say in your post, and thanks for giving me some continuity into what's with the bodies.

My difficulty is understanding this:

'nuclear explosion then I can promise that your astral will be g o n e !'

Does this suffice to say that when we travel into the future our astral body is turned to ashes?

Also, is it not accepted by physical immortal-ists that the 150 year mark is when true existence begins, opening of freed portals, third eye cleared...?

Greg

[pmlonline]

Hi Azalane,

That's ok.  Most people say they it's difficult to understand me.  Maybe I'm in a different universe, lol.

nuclear explosion then I can promise that your astral will be g o n e !'

The nuclear explosion was in reference to real physical nuclear explosion.  Most people don't realize that a real physical nuclear explosion extends into the etheric plane and even into the astral plane.  What I was saying was that if a nuclear explosion, of course it must be sufficient size, can damage and even destroy the astral body.  If the person while out of body lowers their astral vibration low enough so that it is close to the physical plane, and if they are right next to the nuclear explosion in locality then it will hurt the actual astral body.

Does this suffice to say that when we travel into the future our astral body is turned to ashes?

The physical plane is very unique.  It is one of the largest group consciousness experiments.  Traveling in the future by viewing the astral akashic records and viewing a nuclear explosion in the past will not damage your astral.

Also, is it not accepted by physical immortal-ists that the 150 year mark is when true existence begins, opening of freed portals, third eye cleared...?

When you say 150 years are you referring to a person who lives to be 150 years in the physical body?  I was referring to the life span of the astral body after the physical body dies.  On average you could say that the astral body lives about 2 to 3 times longer than the physical body.  Yes, the astral body can and does die in most people.  When a person reaches a high enough spiritual level then they are called liberated beings.  A liberated beings astral may never die if so desired.  In fact, a liberated being may even retain their physical body forever.  That is called an avatar.

Peace Paul

[Hans Solo]

The nuclear explosion was in reference to real physical nuclear explosion. Most people don't realize that a real physical nuclear explosion extends into the etheric plane and even into the astral plane. What I was saying was that if a nuclear explosion, of course it must be sufficient size, can damage and even destroy the astral body. If the person while out of body lowers their astral vibration low enough so that it is close to the physical plane, and if they are right next to the nuclear explosion in locality then it will hurt the actual astral body

Please site your sources  

On average you could say that the astral body lives about 2 to 3 times longer than the physical body. Yes, the astral body can and does die in most people. When a person reaches a high enough spiritual level then they are called liberated beings. A liberated beings astral may never die if so desired. In fact, a liberated being may even retain their physical body forever. That is called an avatar.

I got an avatar..OMG! it is Han Solo from Star Wars.  I loved his character.  PMonline, I am very sorry to see that you are not a liberated being yet.  However, if you go to google images and download a little picture you too could be an avatar.  Good luck.

Han solo

[pmlonline]

The nuclear explosion was in reference to real physical nuclear explosion. Most people don't realize that a real physical nuclear explosion extends into the etheric plane and even into the astral plane. What I was saying was that if a nuclear explosion, of course it must be sufficient size, can damage and even destroy the astral body. If the person while out of body lowers their astral vibration low enough so that it is close to the physical plane, and if they are right next to the nuclear explosion in locality then it will hurt the actual astral body

Please site your sources

I think what you really mean is where can you find physical scientific proof.  If I told you that such and such a person said it then you would want to know their source.  Go to the mental akashic records and there you will see.  That is called personal proof.  I have already posted obe tests for one to verify if they are creating an illusionary world when the phase or obe.  When you have proven to yourself that you are developed enough to see without creating a dream or illusion then you can go to the mental akashic records.  I am sure you wanted a get quick answer where you could find out in 30 seconds.  I cannot help you there my friend.  BTW, the akashic records won't charge you anything for the information, LOL.

Peace,
Paul

[David Warner]

Pmlonline,

I would appreciate if you could supply a link to your resources as well. Did all this come from Rosicrucian philosophy or Theosophy?

btw: I have a avatar too - he's a clown, down and out, pushes a cart around  and smokes..:)

Tvos

[Stevo]

Paul,

Two things. First off, I must say that I feel that in many points you are either wrong or undereducated. Although I'm not going to insult you or think any less of you. Brings me to my second point.

No matter what they say, always keep a feeling of question in your mind. Good for you to come to a mostly phasing related site and be clear about your beliefs. Cheers to you.

[pmlonline]

Dear Tvos & Stevo,

As stated in previous post, the information is found in history.  The history is found in the best record book-- the mental akashic records.  I have my personal proof.  I have done my own scientific tests long ago while out of body to prove that I am seeing correctly and not creating my own world as in a lucid dream.  You should know that nearly all projectors / phasers create their own reality nearly 100% of the time.  For years the people at this site have searched proof by means of meeting numerous projectors in a non-physical local to verify the experience.  I just read a post by Frank that stated the thing that frustrates him the most is proving the experiences.  If anyone truly believes they have the truth then please by all means be certain by at least checking your abilities.  Nearly everyone with the exception of an extremely small % of projectors / phasers will find it difficult.  I have posted how to do such tests.  Here's a simple variation.

Etheric realm test:
1. Obtain roughly a hundred small photos of various things and places.
2. Shuffle the photos.
3. Close your eyes.
4. Randomly pick a photo.
5. Place the photo in a solid box and then you can open your eyes.
6. Project to the etheric realm.
7. Look inside the box and remember the photo.
8. Go back to physical body.
9. Verify photo.
10. Repeat test 10 times to see how many times you get if correct.

Astral realm test:
1. Project to the astral realm.
2. Focus and bring your consciousness on an somewhat advanced person that has also projected to the astral realm that would be interested in performing a test.
3. When you find such a person then ask if he or she would like to perform a test.  Make sure you mention that you are not going to publish the test to anyone.  Most people capable of achieving such a test will never prove it on a global scale.  I am posted many reasons why this is so.
4. You and this person will exchange phone numbers.  This is very difficult at first.  If you are unable to bring the number back to the physical then you'll have to get clever.  If the person lives in the physical near you then find a place to meet in the flesh.
5. Go back to physical body.
6. Contact the person to verify.
10. Repeat test 10 times to see how many times you get if correct.

Mental realm test:
Same as Astral test except in the mental realms.

I have my own personal proof.  I have worked with many mystics.  One such mystic could vanish before your eyes, levitate, read your mind.  You may say, well Chris Angel can do that with just magic.  And I would say, what else would you expect.  Chris is but one in many.  Like I said, until the peace period has really started, you'll never never find anyone who will prove it to the public.  Earth is a school and the teachers are not in the habit of handing everyone all the answers to the test.    I know, everyone wants to see it!

I understand the goal in life is not to get caught up in the supernatural fun stuff.  On the other hand, it is wise to verify that a teacher is not fake.  Anyone who truly seeks the truth and not all the me me me stuff can then find such a person.  They exists.  I am not saying I am such a person.  I am merely saying that I have already done my own personal projection tests.  BTW, an avatar is one who is liberated from the physical plane but who chooses to reincarnate to help those on earth.  I am NOT an avatar.  When you're ready and if you put out the effort then you'll find such a teacher.  They are all over the place.  I always recommended the Max Heindel books because he was a mystic.  No, he was not liberated, but he was able to project at will and see accurately.  He was taught by a liberated being.  Max tested all the information while out of body.

Stevo,
It is fine if you claim the information is wrong.  I follow the path of others who practice what they teach.  Their information is free.  They do not create high pressure sales pitche web sites, knock down others such as mystics, tell people to run the other way when they meat a mystics, etc.  Money is necessary for most people.  Yet it is another story when you mix it with spiritual development.  Spirituality is about freely giving to those who may benefit.  Not "I'll only give you this information if you pay me money!"  Yes, money is also energy, but it is a low form of energy.  Take Max Heindel for example.  They sell their books, dozens of them.  Yet they also freely offer all of his books in electronic form.  Max Heindel also obtained his personal proof.  When I say personal proof, I mean proving to yourself that nearly 100% of the time you are not creating your own little world; i.e., you can meet people out of body and both can verify the experience while in the flesh.

Sorry if this sounds defensive.  It's just the way I communicate which is different than most.  I ramble on too much and it begins to sound defensive.  I hope you'll forgive me if I retire from this thread for some time as I sense a very bad vib if I do not.

Peace,
Paul

p.s. Phasing is good.

[Ben K]

paul- we appreciate your experiences but you have to understand each of us creates our own reality. to say that your path is correct is denying everyone elses experiences.

Just because you experienced something, or Frank experienced something, doesnt mean that whatever happend to you or whatever you saw is the bottom line. When it comes down to it, it is the beliefs of each of us personally that create our OWN reality, ALL of the time, NOT just while in other areas of consciousness.

I dont think anyone is saying your information is wrong you're just making the classic mistake of the ages- declaring what you think or saw to be "the way it is". I got news for ya, not to sound harsh, but thats NOT the way it is for everyone.