The Astral Pulse

Hello,

a friend and I went to talk to a psycic today.  I talked to her for a while about astral projecting and other things like that.  I told her how I was trying to obe or astral project ( I've been trying to phase lately) but I used those other terms because that is probably what she would know... but she said I should use "protection" or tools to protect myself I guess from negs.  She told me about these different things like water and candle and salt but I was wondering what anyone on these forums would thing about this... I don't know too much about astral protection or anything like that because I've been under the impression that likes attract likes as Mr. Monroe says in his books so I simply have and still kinda think that because of the way that I am ... I may not be a big magnet for negs.... any thoughts would be appreciated.

if this is this the wrong place it would be ok to put it in a different spot.
Thanks
James

Through my experience whatever you think will happen in F2 will happen.  If you think you will project and be surrounded by demons waiting to sever your limbs and sodomize you it will happen.  If you think you will meet God and commune with the higher forces, you will.  F2 is whatever you make it out to be.  I have no experience beyond F2, but with experience inside F2 for me came an understanding that it is shaped entirely by you.  Today I flew about in a place much like my apartment complex, but whatever my mind made it out to be.  I channeled energy from the sun, harassed copies of my roommates, and saw a dog I had when I was 12, which I attribute to my subconscious.  

The real variable is indeed your subconscious.  

If your subconscious mind, through what it has stored from reading things about AP and talking to people about AP is filled with negs and demons and self defense, then you will be, at least at first, attacked by things created only in your subconscious expectations.  I started on this path myself, but the more I told myself that I was in control, the more alive and welcoming it became, entirely shaped by my thoughts and perceptions of it.  Dont let the new age mystical muppets who are stuck in the old school ways of AP tell you what to think of it, experience it for yourself and come to your own conclusions!!!!

Best of luck!  :D

Hi knightlight,

Honestly I kinda had that exact thinking in mind when I listened to her.... and that led me to be a little skeptical.  But I'm still would like to see what other posters thing

James

Hi:

The BIG problem has been that in the past people were thinking they were projecting into a different kind of world or "astral realm". We now know there are 4 primary areas of consciousness and the one next door to the physical, in a manner of speaking, where most people are doing their "astral projecting", is in fact your own individual area of mind.

Mystics in the past have talked about this "place" as having a kind of Alice in Wonderland effect, where all your thoughts come to life and so forth. Problem is, they never seemed to question it any further than that by asking the question of WHY all your thoughts came to life. Well, as I say, we now know that you are actually projecting within your own area of mind. This means as you believe then so it becomes, literally. So if you subscribe to all the notions of demons and dragons and such like, then demons and dragons you shall perceive. Because it's your own area of mind you are projecting into.

Whatever you believe then that's what you will perceive simply because you are perceiving your own beliefs. Any kind of notion of "protection" is merely a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe that performing some kind of "protection ritual" will protect you then protection you will receive. Problem is, one of the core mistakes people make is they objectify everything.

Yours,
Frank

So how do you protect yourself from your subconscious mind ( besides the usual "think good thoughts" solution ) ?
Also,would that mean that in fact there really is no astral wildlife in lower astral and thus when robert bruce talks about it , he is perhaps confusing the entities he sees as something living independently when in truth it's just his mind playing tricks on him ( I hope I get an answer on this one ) ?

this is the third time i've come back to this post...something wishing me to reply. i'm only choosing this post bcuz it's current, and it is in-keeping with the "general" mentality here. i look and this is what i see (face value): a lot of people interested in attaining/attuning to particular powers that be, but in a completely self-absorbed, fast-food type "need" for something that immediately behooves them...raises them up a level on some cosmic ladder of intelligence and ability. basically people wanting to subscribe to a QUICK & PAINLESS method of spirituality. i don't fault anyone for being naive, but there are dangers to this approach that are difficult to explain. when you put your faith into the mainstream, when you are willing to be "initiated" into the "secret knowledge" at a price & worst at no-cost to yourself as far as energy is concerned you will most definitely come up short-handed and worse for wear. many come here seeking advice and answers. much energy put into the search, less energy put into the offerings, and even less put into the digestion and utilization of what is received. i can't help but say this worries me...although i must remain objective for everyone has their lessons.

i have no reservations in pointing out that i'm uncomfortable in taking something as limitless as the astral and building a construct round it, applying rules and regulations, levels and borders into it. i understand where the 3-D, linear mind is the tool @ hand, but we suffer enough with the black & white ways of this world. why do people insist on dragging that baggage into the astral and using it as the definitive road-map?

whether people are traversing their subconscious, or an unknown realm outside themselves...which has a heavy border here @ AP...why must the direction always be "useful"? why do people feel they need to "protect" themselves? why are "attacks" viewed as negative and off-track???

"attacks" are both lessons AND initiations! if the universe is balanced, as we are told, and which seems to be self-evident upon deep reflection, then it is almost necessary to experience both aspects in any learning experience. it is what you DO with the "attacks" that makes them either lessons from which you learn, or troubles from which you suffer. and it is in this sense that awareness plays the major role of transforming attacks into lessons; awareness being the thing that you acquire with knowledge, which then enables you to see the realities behind the (symbol) system, so that you can choose the most "harmonious" option of those presented to you in the masked reality in which we live and travel.

attacks don't always come in dark shadows and scaled-blood thirsty beasts...sometimes they come with smiles, and pats on the back and little certificates of accomplishment with gold stickers!!! (and they are VERY heavy lessons indeed!!!)

QuoteMystics in the past have talked about this "place" as having a kind of Alice in Wonderland effect, where all your thoughts come to life and so forth. Problem is, they never seemed to question it any further than that by asking the question of WHY all your thoughts came to life. Well, as I say, we now know that you are actually projecting within your own area of mind. This means as you believe then so it becomes, literally. So if you subscribe to all the notions of demons and dragons and such like, then demons and dragons you shall perceive. Because it's your own area of mind you are projecting into.

first i wonder how people are SO SURE this is THEIR OWN mind at work?
second...(who's-ever mind it is) everything is a manifestation of it! In the physical, the astral, the subconscious...whichever. why is there a lack of interest in what our so-called "subconscious" (or for that matter conscious) mind manifests here in the physical? what are the lessons in that??? and people tripping on into the astral to find the BIG answers there, that they seemingly wish to apply to here without doing the lessons ...and what is all this "pot of gold" stuff?!?
what is that?!!? all cherry cokes and ice cream sundaes...all glittering little puff of truth, wrapped in diamond-encrusted spiritual easter-baskets, delivered by those who REALLY care. i don't know about anyone else, but i just find that insulting, and the repetition of it nauseating. anyone that lives in this physical, mortal world knows in their heart that this is not the path. there is no skipping lessons period! no one special enough to by-pass the tosh...for the reward is not at the end of the rainbow, the secret is not in turning the lead into gold. that is not the wants of the human condition...that is what we have been PROGRAMMED to DESIRE. to LEAD US ASTRAY and away from true POWERS.

how does anyone know that this physical world is not a PROJECTION, and that the demons and dragons are part a truer reality!?!
there is a drastic lesson in being gullible, delivered by very impressive shirts with all the answers. a lesson never to be forgotten.

i doubt that anything i say is going to hit anyone hard enough to look around...and rightfully so. it is not my place to impose my reality...it's just that what comes along the path that feels right, looks right and seems right...doesn't have anything to do with the PATH. and even though i quickly lose steam in trying to put these things into words...i felt pressure to do so. SO I DID. just ramblings...nothing more.

333

good post souljah.  In regards to kajas post, you dont have to protect yourself from yourself in my opinion.  During an AP session I not only was attacked by something that practically ripped one of my legs off but also later went back and found a knife and cut myself to ribbons but wasnt harmed in any way physically.  I hold no real attachment to this physical existence so losing it isn't too frightening to me and I am willing to try anything in the astral.  From my experience, you cant get hurt.  Its just my experience and shouldn't be taken as gospel, but I don't fear anything in the astral.  I'm sure plenty of people will tell you otherwise, but having people tell you isn't anything compared to experiencing it yourself.  Go for the gusto and just do it and figure it out for yourself.

Souljah:

More and more people are now actually experiencing the truth for themselves. As they do so the old pardigms will give way to the new. I guess we are used to all this change in terms of new and faster computers and mobile phones with yet more features. Computer games ever more sophisticated and so on. But non-physical reality technology has been a bit in the doldrums until about 15 years ago and it has finally started to take off. In these times of fast changing circumstances, it is only natural that many, unfortunately still the majority, are transfixed by the outgoing paradigm. It's the same with any new technology.

Yours,
Frank

Kaja:

I'm not sure why anyone would need protecting against their own mind. Perhaps they should maybe change their beliefs on some things so they view different constructs if they feel that is necessary in terms of their experience. Or not if they wish to continue. If people feel they are being attacked and so forth then we have a section for that in the PSD forum.

No one's mind can possibly play tricks on them. To accept that is to accept that a person's mind can exist independently and in contradiction to the person in question. Problem is, to the mystics it would appear that everything that is non-physical is therefore "astral" and in their terms is a separate place. They haven't yet come up to speed on the fact that we now know there are 4 primary areas in consciousness and each area has different characteristics and so forth.

This is a fast-changing technology. Anything published 5 years ago is old news already. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to publish in eBook format. So I could keep up to date with even my own developments. With my very latest work in making inroads into Focus 4, I have made developments now to the extent where if I had published a book on my Focus 4 experiences 6 months ago I'd want to scrap it already.

Yours,
Frank

QuoteNo ones mind can possibly play tricks on them. To accept that is to accept that a person's mind can exist independently and in contradiction to the person in question.

still waiting for someone to reply on the Q: how can anyone say for absolute certainty that their mind is their own? and i would have to disagree with the above quote...i think our minds play tricks all the time. not that the mind is playing a tricks on the person per say, but on itself as a form of self-testing. plus you don't exist if not for your mind...the mind is really all there is. so as one can easily say the person and the mind are one (which is true in a sense). the person being only a physical manifestation/representation OF the mind can also look from the other end of the binoculars and say that the mind can in fact exist anyway it likes without any real concern for the physical images it projects.

i think this goes back to my above post. where i feel the majority of people are stuck in the image of the "self/I" and lose perspective of their limitless mind. everything viewed from a physical perspective. i would also like to add something about "conditioning" & "programming", but i need to think about that more before i end up with both feet in my mouth.
333

i understand what you meant and in a larger sense i feel this to be true, but once again...i think there is a certain strength is coming round full circle with this. in the lessons that lead to this ultimate power of unifying the mind. without the lessons of knowing what tricks the mind IS capable of playing...the student is weak...and worse...lacking in COMPLETE RESPECT for that power.

i don't think anyone would argue the fact that our technology has surpassed our function...and although there's always room for newer, quicker, more hands-on techniques when it comes to everything. i would stress caution in "these" new methods only bcuz no one knows for sure what they're getting themselves into when they're inexperienced. like going on a blind-date with the handsome, well-to-do bachelor that everyone raves about...only to find out he's a rapist. not the same thing at all, but a dramatized explanation regarding rushing into something you have little-to-no idea about, nor the energies behind it. i thinks that's just common sense. i'd have no problem with new technologies if i saw more of a demonstration of common sense. i know a good deal about tools and equipment...and i know it's a huge market with lots of new, great, handy gadgets on the shelves everyday...still nothing works as well as the very first and simple few. the wedge, the wheel, the hoist, etc.

Souljah:

For someone to say that their mind was not their own would be a contradiction in terms. You cannot claim with any degree of rationality that your mind is not your mind.

These kinds of questions and answers have nothing to do with the wider reality, they are simple questions of logical analysis. The foundations of which have been established for a long while.

Yours,
Frank

Howdy,

that's really alot of what I've thought all along Major Tom.  Which is why when I was listening to what she said I just kinda heard what she said and then kinda questioned her response.  But since I've not had a great amount of experience and all, which I wish I did, I figured asking people here would be a good idea.  Actually, I think this is kinda like some game I played once... it was supposed to be some sort of mental game and I was good at it... or it was just natural for me to be able to do it.  yet it wasn't until my friend said that sometimes it doesn't do exactly what you want it to... after that I messed up a little.  I then realized that if I just ignored that thought and went on with my business I could achieve the goal easily.  So is my reasoning behind this whole "protection" and the fact that I feel I don't need or want any of what she described.... sounded all a bit too mystical to me anyways.  I'm honestly more interested in the "scientific" type approach to all of this.  

James

Good day,
       I seems for something so natural. Astral projection is or can be a very complicated process to learn.  Depending on what you believe or not about re-incarnation.  It would seem plausable that depending on what has happened and where your soul is in terms of its grandest experience and individual may or may not possess more of a natural ability.
        Some individuals will say that you need protection, others will say that you do not.  It is the opinion of this humble traveller that it all depends on the scenario.  There are always unseen forces at work. Whether good or bad they will teach us something...
         If you are experiencing neg-related problems then I'd say protection is wise.  If you are not, then I would not worry about it.  If you do follow the theorums involving that we always have the 'master copy' safely nested in side of us.  You can feel safe that even if by some mystical Occult spell your projected double were destoryed... You'd always have the master.
         Just remember. We are in a repressive soceity.  It would seem logical that this repression is also taken into the astral.  There are many powerful and secret orginizations out there... Neg's slow down your progress... so do they... is this simply coincidence??? Answers are up to you.

I am seeing there is 2 sides to the world of ap divided by belief in negs.  I have been plagued by what neg believers would label psychic attack for most of my life, but ever since I tossed the idea aside that I can actually be harmed I have come to find these incidences rather amusing. Before they where traumatizing and horrific.  Just last night I awoke paralyzed, being held down by invisible hands I could feel and I looked to my right and saw an eye floating in the air about 3 feet away from me.  I looked at it and raised an eyebrow and said "yes?" and it just stayed there.  I squirmed a bit and tried to move but its grip hadn't lessened.  I said "if your going to stand around and keep me from sleeping at least materialize some tits for me to look at!" and it went away.  I'm not sure if it was my mind producing it, if I was having an overlay experience or if it actually was a "neg", but I didn't jump to conclusions and freak out, causing the events to get worse like I used to.  Its all in how you perceive it, and I have never once in my life been harmed by "negs".  Sure, I have been tortured and electrocuted with vibrations and forced to see incredibly horrible things, but only in F2 or through overlay experiences, and I have always woken up, no worse for wear aside from being a bit shaken by the experience.  Ever since I started taking the above approach and gotten over my gut instinct to freak out, my attacks have lessened and the severity pale in comparison to before.  I just take it as something I must go through if I want to keep my ability to AP/phase/whatever it really is.  

Any time I have freaked out and felt it would get worse, it did, and once your fear turns to terror your in for something you wont forget.

perhaps the only thing to fear is fear itself in this instance.

I haven't had much concrete success in my endeavors (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18409&start=10), but readers of this thread may benefit from a retelling of an attempt to diagnose my inability to achieve certain objectives. One unanswered question I focused on was, "how and why do I dream?" Not understanding the mechanics animating any reality means not understanding the reality. That is the intention behind the following experience (probably F3oC).

I phase-shifted and found myself in a dream, at first very weary and lethargic. I stumbled, intending to ask important questions about dreaming. More lucid, I found myself standing next to a simple wooden chair, a table, and across the table sat a popular New Age author (actually, aren't they all?). He smiled his a-course-in-miracles-love-binds-the-universe-buy-my-book-to-be-happy smile, saying, "how can I help you?" Reflexively, I was about to sit down and ask a question.

Then I said, "No," getting up and turning away. I despised this author. This was why I was dreaming in first place. I wouldn't be here if I thought I could find answers in a book. "I'll ask the dream."

After a pause, I looked slightly upward, and asked the dream, "how is it that I dream?" In tandem, "Why (do I dream one dream and not another)?" It was a loaded question, but I was prepared for anything.

The dream cleared with that lucid glow, while the walls around me changed. I was in a castle, perhaps, medieval wood furnishings and illuminating by torch light. In front of me was an inviting circular staircase. As I walked upwards, I noticed a change in air, as if the castle was on a large mountain and I was ascending up through the clouds.

An older-looking man sat near a fireplace in a humble sort of chair, but plush with hay. I walked over to him and started to sit, waiting for him to say something. Nothing. Except perhaps a little rumble; a low vibration moving the dream. What kind of answer is this, I thought.

"Are you listening?" he said.

Noticing I was momentarily distracted, I felt I missed a lesson.

"No. I am sorry. But I'm listening now."

Then the rumbling grew louder, gradually stronger, and closer, it focused behind me. I turned around and stepped back quickly. A short young woman in a black robe, with goth-ish hair and features, displaying a sinister animalistic being, approached the old man.

I waited to see what he would do. If he was any at all wise, he would defeat her in some clever way, and then we would get on with the lesson. She hissed scathing, and he looked surprisingly frightened. Quickly, she began to eat him, horrifically. He didn't even have time to scream, her ingestion was so efficient. Then she turned towards me.

Although never afraid for my well-being, knowing it was a dream, I was still shocked. In truth I was afraid of something far worse - that of not learning something, or not being able to learn something, for this was really a genuine attempt for wisdom. And if I did not leave with something, I would be very sad.

Perhaps if I did not provoke her she would not attack. I waited.

Then she lunged at me. I flew back and up, and flung a force wave upon her. She fell back to the floor. As she was getting up for another lunge, growling, I noticed her intense hunger. She was weak. Here she was, after devouring a man almost twice her size, and she was still starving. She even looked thinner than before, more impoverished and in more pain, like a ragged child of a homeless family.

Evil was weakness.

Showing her blood curdling fangs, she lunged at me again with more force. But with devastating means I struck her, my shin in her face, spinning her like a rag doll as she fell to the floor again, gasping.

Before she could get up again, I grabbed the rims of her clothes, and flung her out of the castle firmly and decisively. As she descended through the clouds, I flew after her with fierce speed, and hauled her towards the ground faster than gravity would allow. Like a bullet, she smashed through the rough terrain, pulverizing the soil, her body driven deep into the Earth.

When I hit terra firma, immediately thereafter, I awoke. It was the most serene I had felt in years.

[EDIT: Before you call me a Nazi, just because I said "evil is weakness" doesn't necessarily mean that weakness is evil (although in higher FoC it's probably just as corrupting)]

souljah i have a question for you.
What is 333?

Quote from: FrankKaja:

I'm not sure why anyone would need protecting against their own mind. Perhaps they should maybe change their beliefs on some things so they view different constructs if they feel that is necessary in terms of their experience. Or not if they wish to continue. If people feel they are being attacked and so forth then we have a section for that in the PSD forum.


Yours,
Frank

I'd like a definitive answer on that ! In your opinion , besides people that passed away ( and besides the fact that lots of so called attacks are just your mind manifesting your thoughts ), are there actual entities (as in negs) living in astral or whatever you call it , and are some of those negs sometimes responsible for attacks on projectors ? I'm only asking what you believe it to be frank and nothing else

Quotesouljah i have a question for you. what is 333?

whatever you want it to be.

has anyone ever heard of the "scientific" tests done with children of severe abuse...where when they are placed in an unfamiliar or threatening environment...they will recede to the parent that abuses them (for safety)?!
it's an alpha-protection thing/also a familiarity thing. they feel MOST comfortable with what they are familiar with, even though it is detrimental to their well-being. where i try to open up the lines of thought for flexibility and flow, it's odd that in a round about way this can actually work in the opposite manner to re-confirm what is familiar and well-accepted.

i think about people i know that are addicted to sugar. they don't think so...it's only a "preference" of a "refinement" of sorts, but they constantly reach for the sweetest treats available. if i offer them fruit (a NATURAL sweet) they look at me like i'm nuts. to me it's all sweet, but to different degrees...to them it's two completely different things, but where i would admit that both correct.  they would insist "i" was wrong...and something in that little observation is reflected here.

froglet (james):
when you posted "she/her" was that in reference to me?!?

i might have not made it clear in my original post that i wasn't attempting to answer YOUR questions. i was merely using your thread for my own personal observations, etc. if you're looking for answers there are plenty of other people that will be glad to "help"...as has already been demonstrated.

i've just been thinking a good deal about "attraction/retraction" whatever that action is that causes the majority of people to reach for something that appeals to them/seems easy/quick/convenient/etc, and avoid the opposite..and in the process be completely convinced that this is correct. that what they "desire" is ultimately good, and what leads directly there is the best course of action.

anyway...
i was was merely speaking out loud and in no way was i concerned with whether or not i was selling you on my ideas. if my goal was to manipulate you i would have been more subtle.  :wink:
i would have told you what you wanted to hear.

in reference to your post then i will say this.
i have LOTS of experience in obe's/ap...and neg's and i have never found candles, holy water, sea salt, etc to work...and as far as like attracting like which might behoove you to hold onto if you "think" you're a good person...however in scientific/practical terms (which you said is where your interest lies) i believe magnetically that opposites attract.
plus i know many people that suffer attacks and they're the nicest, kindest, most understanding and open-minded people i've had the pleasure to meet, but of course that's only my opinion.

333

Hello Souljah 333,

I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear when I was saying "she/her" I meant the lady I had talked to from around where I live.  That's why I started this post. but I would say that you're probably right about opposites but I'm not worried about it myself... I simply asked to see what people had to say about it  :) .  I do listen to people but I try to run it through my reasoning before I accept it.  and since I'm still realitively new to all of this.  I figure I would ask people more experienced.  besides I got a partial answer to this post in a dream before I started seeing people respond.  

James

FRANK,
i'm not sure you answered my question either about how you know for sure that your mind is your own?!? maybe it was over my head, but i think you danced around the question. i mean...windows might be your operating system, but what about all the little trojan/spy programs that are planted in the back and carry out a completely different function USING the same hard-drive?!? something along those line...i think you know what i'm getting at.

also...

QuoteMore and more people are now actually experiencing the truth for themselves.

THAT HAS TO BE THE MOST BIZARRE THING I'VE HEARD ON THIS SITE.
i just keep re-reading it, and it's very, very disturbing.
333

FROGLET: okay...thought you meant me :roll: . good. GOOD...as long as you keep flipping it over, and tossing it around, and take time not to rush into anything...i am not worried for you either. not in the least. GOOD.
EXCELLENT! :D

if I may ask, why would experiencing what is truth disturbing?

you have to read it again. slowly. bit by bit.
not to say that it isn't possible that it wasn't exactly what he meant, but...

i myself find it disturbing (that's the only word i can think of) that someone would ACTUALLY say
"more & more people are NOW...ACTUALLY.....EXPERIENCING ..................."THE TRUTH"...................................FOR THEMSELVES!

what were they doing before?

and i guess the part that disturbs me most...is the point of reference for the comment. someone saying it would have to be standing in "the truth" in order to make a judgment like that.

what will disturb me more...is if i'm the only person that see this. :?

333
:wink:

Quotehow can anyone say for absolute certainty that their mind is their own?

I would try to answer if you can define "mind" and "I" and "own"

exactly!

surely you JEST :wink:

gag. why did you have to do that?

i have a ton of sexual experience (astrally speaking) and i kept going back to that thread, but i could never bring myself to post anything. thank god (i didn't did i?!?). :shock: i couldn't read that thread again if someone paid me.

wondering how the marriage is going though?!?
still wondering in my twisted little mind how i might reply to sir jack hoff, who keeps falling off his bed and such...in fits of orgasmic ecstasy. poor guy :roll:
333

where's frank already???

and NO...that's still the most disturbing.

I don't see what's disturbing about that, either. I mean, it's like saying more and more people are seeing the truth behind Mars.

Oh, also I appreciated that dream you posted, Telos. I don't know exactly how it answered your question about dreams (at least it didn't answer my questions about dreams) but I totally agree with the "moral" of the story, so to speak.

I've found that personal demons, if you will, are scary and evil because they're trying to protect some hurt. Evil always seems to be a side effect of weakness - I doubt the existence of anything pure evil, in fact. Evil is a misleading word with vague connotations.

Anyway, to clarify a little what I said before, more people can experience Mars in a way because of the rovers and whatnot. This is the way of knowledge gained through experiences brought on by new technology. It's the natural progression of things.

omg.

i don't know why i'm bothering with this, but...(one more time)
ahhh...this is so silly.

WHO was DOING the EXPERIENCING BEFORE???
before these "people" (whoever they are) began experiencing it for
THEMSELVES???

how complicated is that to comprehend?
333

naahever mind already. really.

well no...you know (one more time) it's kind of like saying...

more and more the africans are NOW actually starting to educate themselves.
or
more and more the native americans are NOW actually demonstrating that they can support themselves
or
more and more women are NOW ACTUALLY experiencing real independence for themselves

or something like...
more and more the people @ AP are NOW actually starting to think for themselves.

if no one see where that's insulting i am truly disturbed as i said.
:roll: 333

One of my teachers said to me: "There is a seeker born every minute."

The word "actually" seems fine to me, to distinguish these people experiencing truth from the people who think reading about someone's experience is the same thing as understanding truth. Truth is very easy to fake and there is a lot of money being made in the process.

I'm a little disturbed as well (not implicitly a bad thing....)

what disturbs me is the assumption that the mind is owned by the Self expressed by:

Quotewe now know that you are actually projecting within your own area of mind

As I see it, the "Self" is generated by the mind, the feeling of "I" is created by the mind. imagine for example, watching a movie, when you are completely absorbed in the story line there is no sense of "I" left, when the mind is absorbed in something else it stops generating the feel of "Self" and the Self disintegrates completely. It is therefore odd to say that the "I" owns the mind. I know what Frank means, but it is a confusing situation.

What also is disturbing me, is the fact that Franks seems to know the future for example:

QuoteBut non-physical reality technology has been a bit in the doldrums until about 15 years ago and it has finally started to take off

He has also talked about future events as if they were certain on other occasions. What disturbs me is the following. If the future is determined, we can not change it. that means we do not have a free will----> disturbing

QuoteMore and more people are now actually experiencing the truth

for As I understood Frank; More and more people start to realize that the Astral is a part of their own mind, by experiences gained there.
Souljah333  understood it otherwise in a more absolute sense, I believe. How can you possibly experience something else then reality, which is in sense truth ? You can not, therefore the above sentence is a bit odd if read word by word.

thank god!

there is much more that can be read into everything, but that one sentence summed it up so neatly, so completely. i didn't want to explain it to the nth degree...i just wanted to wait and see if "anyone" out there had their spiritual blinders off. blessed be tombo (not for taking my side) for being able to see in many directions at once.

people say stuff like that all the time without thinking, but where i can overlook it in people that are beginning to understand this sense of "I"...i tend to be a little concerned when it's used by people that claim to have a  "better understanding" than most of what's taking place. then i look at the people that missed it and wonder what the dynamics are in that. the ones that immediately said it was "nothing", said it was good more and more people were waking up. that is however not what was said. and here's the twister that causes me think this way...because in fact I AGREE with frank.
(and why the sentence jumped out at me). more and more people are now actually experiencing the truth for THEMSELVES...bcuz i believe that a shift is taking place that can no longer be CONTROLLED...by the "beings" that have controlled our minds for so very long. we just might come to know free-will by this. we may finally begin to utilize our powers fully, and do the things we've only "dreamed" of up to this point. the powers that hang over this place manipulating our minds are not going to move off quietly and allow this to happen. that is not in their agenda, nor is compassion an aspect of their nature.

the shift can't stopped. they can't keep people from waking up. all they can do is corral us into pools of same (like attracts like). keep us blind to our individual powers and use that heard mentality they implanted in us to cling together for safety in numbers. understanding this involves knowing that one of us has enough power to take out a large portion of this mental-grid, but for those dependent on it...that natural power is in a sad state of entropy...and the artificial power too strong to pull away from. the secrets to unplugging have to come from within and when one is ready, when we ask...the path will show itself. to claim that "I" know the answer, and compassionately pass it on...for ME to "help" "enlighten" others , would be a function that comes from this place of artificial power. the act of sharing "this truth" which doesn't truly exist would be leading away from the independent power of the individual. etc.

i know most people don't want to hear this and the "reactions" will be the same as to my other posts, but i am not here to sway masses or direct the individual...i know we are all waking up. being born into a new consciousness (our own), and if one is capable of understanding their birth into this physical world...if one can see back to that first moment and sense how truly uncomfortable and painful that move is. the light, the pressure of this atmosphere, air tearing through the lungs for the first time. once you can sense that, then you begin to see that any birth/rebirth is the same. it is not meant to be pleasant and comfortable, or easy (this awakening)...which is a controversial topic in this forum. it is at last a real choice of free-will. at the same time there is another false-awakening that is an easier ride. a little package plan with some manifestation and psychic abilities thrown in for attraction. each of us will make a choice, and all i can suggest is that choice will be better made with the blinders off.

(long sigh)......go ahead. PLEASE. feel free to tear this apart and resist whatever you wish. flex that muscle and get it prepared.
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Quote from: Souljah333(long sigh)......go ahead. PLEASE. feel free to tear this apart and resist whatever you wish. flex that muscle and get it prepared.
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You should welcome critism with open arms, provided it is done in a constructive manner, there is more to life then being right or wrong

my truth: there is no such thing as right or wrong.

If I may make a suggestion to the moderators, this thread has deviated from it's original topic and might benefit from a split.

Quote from: Souljah333

Quotesouljah i have a question for you. what is 333?

whatever you want it to be.

I want it to be tonight's lottery numbers. Let's see if your statement is demonstrably true.

Unlike most of the things you've said, this statement is worthy of  consideration, because it's testable and falsifiable.

If you'd like to criticize Frank's statements, you would point out which are not falsifiable and, therefore, unscientific. Frank prides himself in his scientific approach, so you're more likely to engage him in this manner.

You're also more likely to be of more help to the rest of us. I look forward to reading more of your testable and falsifiable statements. You may not realize it, but you  truly advance the knowledge of all people by making them.

Quotesouljah i have a question for you. what is 333?

Quote from: TelosI want it to be tonight's lottery numbers.

Welcome back Telos! BTW I want it to be my Post count......... Ha! :o  it worked!!!! A true Miracle..........
8)  8)

Quote from: Souljah333bcuz i believe that a shift is taking place that can no longer be CONTROLLED...by the "beings" that have controlled our minds for so very long.

what the heck are you talking about?

I kinda curious about that myself.

Telos:

Welcome back from me as well.

I noted your subheading that the topic might benefit from a split but thought the original question was open enough to incorporate the current discussion. However, if your good self or anyone else should insist then we are happy to split the discussion accordingly. Just starting to get interesting I thought. Building into one of those debates the AP is famous for. :)

Regards,
Frank

PS
Tombo, that post count was something else, lol.

QuoteUnlike most of the things you've said, this statement is worthy of consideration

that's funny...what causes you to believe that i want to appease the scientific minds here? i wasn't criticizing franks statement (you might have missed the part about me being in agreement)...i simply was interpreting it in another light (or is that not allowed?) frank can pride himself however he wants and/or you can "interpret" franks pride however you wish. i don't need to tell you that, but i will say that my points aren't about either of you (really).

QuoteYou're also more likely to be of more help to the rest of us.

unfortunately (i guess) for the "rest of you" whoever that is...i don't make of habit of testable/falsifiable comments. as i said i don't buy into right in wrong, and i definitely don't support it being imposed as the more intelligent form of discussion.

i'm not here to argue my point of view. i'm sure not here to argue someone else's POV either.
and good luck with the numbers
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Souljah:

For the record, Frank's statements can be looked at in any light a person wishes. I try to teach people to see my statements in a light that is understandable. That's just my nature. But if someone wants to choose a different light then that's their prerogative.

Yours,
Frank

Quoteas i said i don't buy into right in wrong, and i definitely don't support it being imposed as the more intelligent form of discussion.

:roll:

Wow....  I agree with you 100% that there is no moral right or wrong as well as there being no scientific true or false, but the problem is that we live on earth, and the people here talk with language, language we made up, and at its base it is entirely empty and meaningless.  If I didn't have to I wouldn't speak because speaking languages and clogging your minds with thoughts makes you have to label everything with labels to understand and organize it.  Nothing is its label.

I would agree that language is a large constraint on ideas.  but there are certain things that I feel I should do and things I feel that I shouldn't... that's almost right and wrong. except not because it's more of just what my personality is.

No truth? Language constrains?

Forgive me for asking, but why on Earth are you guys in a discussion forum, where your only medium is words? Wouldn't you feel more at home doing something else?

Not that I blame you for your views - I've already publicly stated that this forum should be moving closer to obsolescence. And I have made good faith efforts to communicate with forum members through the astral (in less constraining means) in order to fulfill such a mission.

because words is a major way I communicate... I think anyone who speaks a language would say there are times when words can't express what they want to say.  I would agree, I would like to communicate more in the astral or non-physical.  I'm still learning how to ap though.  I know as soon as I can ap, obe, or phase on a regular basis I will communicate alot more in other ways.

that's why i'm a painter. i work with images day & night, but in between when i need a break i do stuff like this. i once saw an interview of this boy (maybe 16) that stopped talking for an entire year. he was (afterwards) possibly the most profound speaker i've ever heard. very inspiring. seems like it would be an excellent experiment...even if it were simply for a week. all the other ways there are to communicate. maybe until we stop talking so much, we won't ever get closer to things like telepathy? maybe if we blindfolded ourselves as well we'd progress even faster. that would be a good 'scientific' project....1 weekend blindfolded and speechless & post effects.

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and 100 karma points to knightlight for agreeing with me 100%
actually for just agreeing :wink:

that sounds like a good experiment... (the not talking for a while) but I think what I'm going to try first is not thinking in words.  because as of late I've noticed I do that alot and it's difficult for me to get away from it and I ought to as much as possible.

Souljah:

I'm not sure how blindfolding ourselves would make us progress faster. None of us would be able to get to work, and those that tried would just crash into each other. There would be complete confusion. We'd all be banging into each other wondering where the heck we were going.

I don't know what it is about people. We spend all that time developing and refining our senses to have this physical experience and you want us to step back a zillion years. Come to think of it, I reckon my woman would think it quite erotic if I were to suggest she should spend a weekend blindfolded and gagged. But I'm not sure if she'd think it anywhere near as much fun if I would insist on the same. :)

Yours,
Frank

oh.......my...........god.
that's suppose to be funny right?!? must be late.

it's a  scientific fact (don't you just love it when people are factual?!?)
that (for example) blind people's remaining senses are ACTUALLY more refined and intensified/astute...sound/touch/taste/etc. when you limit one the others get stronger. like when you shut your mouth you get smarter. :shock: no...that was bad. sorry. really it was ONLY a BAD/SAD joke. might be true though...i'm not sure. seems like it would have to work the same way. scientifically speaking. i'll have to research that.

and i think it's a much better idea if your girlfriend blindfolds & gags you!!!
for experimental purposes of course.    :wink:
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Souljah, that puts things into perspective. You're not here to actually communicate anything. Rather selfish, don't you think?

If you celebrate the importance of communicating without language, why don't you try such an experiment? I am conducting a similar one (in truth, I only broke from it because I perceived some distress). Otherwise your statements are literally "all talk."

Thank you, though, for warning me that your posts are intentionally meaningless. Now I don't have to waste my time reading them.

(By the way, the numbers came up "209" tonight. You were wrong.)

Souljah:

I was being lighthearted, yes, while resisting the temptation to ask you to actually do as you preach. And you don't need to apologise because I'm chuckling at your humour. I actually think you have made some good points and I'm hoping there is a good debate to be had here.

In the land of the blind one eye is king. I guess it would be nice if everyone blinded themselves and only you were left with sight. Would be quite a trip. But like all these wishful, fanciful theories it 'aint gonna happen. You will just have to live as normal like the rest of us.

Yours,
Frank

Ha ha ha, trust to you, Major Tom, for the "devil's" insight into the sensory depravation thing. :)

Yours,
Frank

*Jumps in wearing a Wonder Woman outfit, does a few kicks and deflects some bullets*

Oh..wait, I've already done this skit....My bad... :shock:

haha, that's great

QuoteI am conducting a similar one (in truth, I only broke from it because I perceived some distress).

Telos, I am so curious about this experiment of yours.

wow. nice atmosphere. a bunch of self-righteous guys blocking the pass.
very interesting behavior from the spiritually evolved. deprivation in the female does lead to enlightenment...in men it leads to perversion, over grooming & beating chests (among other things).

QuoteSouljah, that puts things into perspective. You're not here to actually communicate anything. Rather selfish, don't you think?

QuoteThank you, though, for warning me that your posts are intentionally meaningless. Now I don't have to waste my time reading them.

young telos: amazing you could take my comments about using this forum as nice, simple escape from my work, and turn it into something "wrong". (non-communicative/selfish/intentionally meaningless & a waste of your time)...have i put you off somehow? i could care less if you read my posts or not. 1) i don't think you are reading them 2) why do you think that would bother me?

as far as what "i'm doing here"...signed up after hearing robert speak on C2C. was interested in others experiences. i've been AP/OBEing/etc for over twenty years so that limits me to a VERY small group here (if i'm looking for more experience than i myself posses). i have more experiences in one day, than most people here have had in their entire lifetimes...still i don't go around bashing anyone for their lack of knowledge in these areas, or deciding who's right and wrong/who's worthy of exchange,etc. i feel i bring a well-seasoned & balanced POV on astral topics. (that was a statement, not a question).  

y'all don't ACTUALLY have to be missing your eyes to be blind.
in the land of the blind one-eye is KING. it sounded good the first time i heard it, but to back this kind of nonsense...it's lost something. typical.

so whatever gets everyone's blood pumping here. BRING IT ON. i am oh so well trained in dealing with thugs, although i have moved on from the basics of hand to hand combat/fighting fire with fire...whatever gets you guys off?!? this space ironically is very much astral and my experience has led to a function where letting it all flow is most efficient (for me). i am not going to attempt to block whatever is slung in my direction. not ignorant enough to let any of it get on me. sorry. if you're looking for a battle of wits you need to make more intelligent blows. simply attacking my character ain't gonna cut it.

you're move
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thank god that was the 60's though. :roll:

this keeps going back to the same question that everyone seems to be ignoring. i know everyone is very attached to their minds, and the idea that it is "their" own....somehow sacred and off-limits. although to me that idea is extremely immature. so...it seems to be very clear to most that drugs and alcohol are prime tools for ALTERING consciousness. my question is do you truly believe these are the only tools? how easily we all own what we are taught (with so little questioning) when a textbook teaches you about gravity...is that not altering you consciousness. when someone leans into your ear and whispers that the girl across the room is a grump...does that not alter your consciousness? watching television, listening to the people around you, picking up on other people's habits...all it is is conditioning and very much mind altering. that's what we can see, hear, touch, taste...that's the physical conditioning, and alcohol and drugs are nothing more than tools...no different from a telephone, tv set, or car. if people are refusing to see how the physical alters the mind, then i see where "attempting to understand how & what "unseen" forces are altering the mind"...is just too much for the average person to comprehend.  

again...how do we know that are minds are our own?

i know nothing about this "focus level" stuff, and i don't pretend that i want to.  i am curious though what the physical level is referred to? is it viewed as just a "given"? a time-out zone? it feels like the ideas here are either to utilize the astral as an "escape" from the physical or...to rework the physical "through" the astral. all in all it seems that the space we occupy physically is ignored for the most part...and where is the truth in that???

anyone interested in mind alteration might find this mans work interesting.
(for those looking for credentials & expertise...this guy's got it)
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/greenbaum.htm

would be very interested in what anyone "thinks" after reading this!
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to me the conditioned mind it more of a symptom, "under the influence" like with your drug & alcohol idea. take someone that has drank too much. they might slur their speech, stumble, become overly aggressive or affectionate, but all of these things are an "effect" or symptom from the altering substance "on the mind". possibly the "conditioning" is a magnification of the un or subconscious mind. like a drunk person will forget a large portion of functioning and work with just a few base modes. my suggestion is there might be some unseen alteration taking place that cancels out a large percentage of our functioning and magnifies or causes us to work with only a fraction of it...part of the programming being that we see it as the whole function. why fix it if it isn't broke?
we do only use what....10% of our brains?!? i don't know.
these are just ideas.

i'm not talking about the mind in total, bcuz i believe the entire thing to be much more powerful than any program..in the long run. something to do with divide and conquer i'd guess. ultimately i see it falling, but that's not going to make it any easier to come to grips with when the veil is lifted.

anyway...that's where i feel that attuning to the astral can be of benefit if it's not used as an escape or some intellectual crutch, which at the best of times is what most are doing. i have gone through that myself...A LOT.
i think a lot comes through in the astral to wake us up to what's really going on...and it's not what most people think or expect. with time it becomes easier to utilize for the reunification. there's a huge "implied" wall that is reinforced by a lot of people. this whole CROSSING OVER thing that makes it seem unattainable to a most or worse like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo mysticism that ultimately "won't get you anywhere". and should all be approached very scientifically. hogwash! never trust the truth where you have to prove yourself to another, follow someone else's rule, or pay a price for it.
there is no separation between the physical and the astral, or anything else for that matter...IMHO. and there are no special privileges for a select few.

i can't answer your other question about sleeping bcuz i haven't had the luxury of it in the past 30 years. i am just as conscious while asleep (if not more so) then i am when i'm awake. my body of course uses this time to rest and recharge, but my mind has no escape...except for the handful of things i still deny myself the truth of. i am not claiming to be fully awake.
i'm not sure we can be fully aware or awake yet. we can be more vigilant of what we aren't aware of, but i think that all of it happens on an unconscious level...thank god that a more complete sense of ourselves has got it going on. it is too easy to write a little post about drugs being bad or impairing projection, while sucking down a diet coke...and never see the relationship. never catch the irony of that lesson. it's all so (edit) subtle. yes be aware, but be aware that what you're surrounded by isn't necessarily the truth. even that book you're reading, even what i'm saying, even what you're thinking, etc.
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yes. i wasn't implying that people shouldn't have fun. for some reason people always think i'm pushing to be serious, when in fact i'm leaning towards less serious. truth is a weird word for me actually, but i agree that everyone has a unique unified spirit that can't be denied. i think when one gets older they look back on a lot of the "fun" and see it as an escape ("oh if i hadn't wasted so much time on all the meaningless stuff) i think that's what i was getting at.
of course this can always be argued forever...so i don't push any particulars. still i have to consider the children in third world countries...how much fun are they having?!? i'm sure they involve themselves in a great number of things, some of which we could never imagine...yet i have to believe it's a different kind of fun from the privileged western or developed worlds. there are a lot of kids out there that are married with children, who have lost children to terrible diseases & hunger, who are working full-time and caring for their parents/grandparents, etc...all by the time that they're 18. i could continue to paint a very sad and extreme comparison here, but i don't feel it's necessary. there is a huge difference between appreciating what one has and living a joyous life...and being just plain ignorant, self-absorbed and living in a disposable world. that's harsh but it's also real.

in the begin we don't need to explore "higher truths". as infants we are complete...then something happens that changes all that...and the quest begins...and that's the part i'm trying to figure out. if all this seriousness is really necessary?!?

like the wall for instance is it necessary to figure out a way to climb over it? i sure know you don't have to climb back! as i've said so many times before all this started for me when i was really young. i didn't know what sleep paralysis was...i thought i was dying. same with obe's & ap...i didn't know it was some path to enlightenment. it didn't enter my mind that people would actually work to accomplish these things. they freaked me out big time, which is besides the point...but what makes it so hard for people to get to? the wall as i said is "implied"...it doesn't exist. just like there isn't any huge gap between canada and the united states. and it's becoming just as hard to move back and forth between borders as it is to move back and forth between realms...or so THEY would have us believe.

just rambling bcuz i'm bored (or truly avoiding having to work :roll:). none of this is directed to anyone in particular.

by the way where is everyone?!? AD by chance :?:
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if our mind is not our mind

then what we think is not what we think

what we write does not come from what we think

but it comes from some other being

so why are you writing here?

it's really useless to think that way

if what i do does not come from me

then there is no reason to do anything

for you cannot accomplish anything

as long as you believe you are who is

then you will see that nothing else is you

ah  :?

can one be not one but something else?

is it illogical for it to be?

or could one be both one and two?

what's useless? opening my mind up to the possibilities? maybe you can't REALLY accomplish anything as long as you're thinking that who you are is who you are and what is is all there is. anyway...i'm not asking you to change who you are or what you think, unfortunately that doesn't always garner the same respect. :cry:

and as far as being here is concerned (isn't funny how often i get that remark, "if you don't agree then you should leave")(?!?)...who say i'm really here at all???

but thank you for your input.
always
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