Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: majour ka on May 25, 2004, 12:09:59
Post by: majour ka on May 25, 2004, 12:09:59
Ive often thought similair questions. I believe many people get too wrapped up in things thay do not understand or are not develped to deal with. My answer to my own question seems to be "anything that frightens you unessacerly or causes you to change in any way other than for the higher good of ones self probably isnt development in a spiritual sense. Then one could argue that negative exipriences may teach you, and may help you to grow stronger in some way.
I currently believe that learning to atune to ones higher self is the most rewarding and safe way foward.
I currently believe that learning to atune to ones higher self is the most rewarding and safe way foward.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: jilola on May 25, 2004, 12:13:55
Post by: jilola on May 25, 2004, 12:13:55
I don't see why you'd want to load up on scary stories. I can see how knowing the kind of things one might come up against can help you to lessen the startle. I tihnk moer important and beneficial way would be to find in you the source of love and compassion. In my experience those two are much more helpful than preparing, and thus inviting battle.
I know other people will come and post to the contrary and you'll just have to make the choice of your approach to the encounters you may have.
Anyway,here's two of mine
First really scary encounter was the classic hag type, much like a scarecrow with twig like claws, lots of sharp teeth and the tenacity and bad temper of an angry terrier. Kept coming at me no matter what I did to evade or repel her. Screming like a banshee too. My solution was to stand my ground and extend all of my compassion and love and a wish that whatever wshe was would find her peace. Never seen her since.
The second was a bunch of vampire type people I found doing the mother of all battles with a bunch of people. I got tangled in the fight and only got out of it by refusing to allow myself to be dragged into the scenario. Once I decided what my interpretation as I found myself alone in an attick with a youngish, frightened boy. I woke up to my alarm bell before I could figure out who he was and why he had created the battle with the vampire people.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
I know other people will come and post to the contrary and you'll just have to make the choice of your approach to the encounters you may have.
Anyway,here's two of mine
First really scary encounter was the classic hag type, much like a scarecrow with twig like claws, lots of sharp teeth and the tenacity and bad temper of an angry terrier. Kept coming at me no matter what I did to evade or repel her. Screming like a banshee too. My solution was to stand my ground and extend all of my compassion and love and a wish that whatever wshe was would find her peace. Never seen her since.
The second was a bunch of vampire type people I found doing the mother of all battles with a bunch of people. I got tangled in the fight and only got out of it by refusing to allow myself to be dragged into the scenario. Once I decided what my interpretation as I found myself alone in an attick with a youngish, frightened boy. I woke up to my alarm bell before I could figure out who he was and why he had created the battle with the vampire people.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: nitetravler on May 25, 2004, 12:14:21
Post by: nitetravler on May 25, 2004, 12:14:21
I couldn't agree more Majour Ka, the development of one's spiritual nature (finding one's Higher Self) is perhaps the best and safest road to travel.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: Nay on May 25, 2004, 12:16:44
Post by: Nay on May 25, 2004, 12:16:44
Only one thing to remember.... Nothing can physically hurt you in the astral, but it can certaintly try its hardest to scare the life out of ya. [:D]
I have had my ankles grabbed once while in paralysis, it did not hurt but scared me greatly...[:O] But after I thought about it, I think whomever it was, they were just trying to help me out. [^]
Nay
I have had my ankles grabbed once while in paralysis, it did not hurt but scared me greatly...[:O] But after I thought about it, I think whomever it was, they were just trying to help me out. [^]
Nay
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 25, 2004, 12:26:19
Post by: narfellus on May 25, 2004, 12:26:19
I agree that if you're going to project, do so with as much knowledge as possible. Now, for me, well...i'm a horror movie fan. I'm a long time d&d gamer. I would enter the astral EXPECTING a fight, and my very thinking it would probably initiate it. My imagination is so chock full of gooey monsters that part of me would enjoy seeing them, and then i'm sure i would promptly regret it. So, as curious as i am, i like my scares on the big screen, not the the screen in my head.
But i think the basic issue is that people don't astrally project to scare themselves, although from what i've read it's bound to happen eventually. Spiritual progress is the goal, and it will happen naturally enough for everyone. How much knowledge ahead of time is too much? I wonder how many people over the course of humankind have lost their minds permanently with energies they could not control/understand.
But i think the basic issue is that people don't astrally project to scare themselves, although from what i've read it's bound to happen eventually. Spiritual progress is the goal, and it will happen naturally enough for everyone. How much knowledge ahead of time is too much? I wonder how many people over the course of humankind have lost their minds permanently with energies they could not control/understand.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: jilola on May 25, 2004, 12:31:20
Post by: jilola on May 25, 2004, 12:31:20
Well, if you want to get scared burgerless you'll certainly get a lot of bang for your buck [8D]
Going into the astral with the intent to pick a fight will almost guarantee one - one way or another.
There's no way of determining if you know too little, enough, or too muc and whether you're spiritually and mentally rwady to deal with the experiences. That's one of the lessons I think;to have to take the plunge into the dark and land on your feet.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Going into the astral with the intent to pick a fight will almost guarantee one - one way or another.
There's no way of determining if you know too little, enough, or too muc and whether you're spiritually and mentally rwady to deal with the experiences. That's one of the lessons I think;to have to take the plunge into the dark and land on your feet.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 25, 2004, 12:35:41
Post by: narfellus on May 25, 2004, 12:35:41
Oh, it sounds like fun, i admit it. Flying, thought forms, akashic pulses; see, this is the stuff of D&D from the early 80's, and Lo and Behold, those geeky game designers weren't making it all up! And neither were the gurus and Tibetan monks and other Grand Masters. It's nice to know that magic is real...makes life that much more interesting:)
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: mar10fl on May 25, 2004, 15:39:12
Post by: mar10fl on May 25, 2004, 15:39:12
if there are demons out there and they do harm us... whats the difference between if we are OBE and waking state. they could reach us either way, so it is most likely inevitable
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: thelou on May 25, 2004, 21:23:04
Post by: thelou on May 25, 2004, 21:23:04
quote:
Ok, i've read a lot of these posts and i've ordered the cream of crop books from Amazon. I'm a very spiritual person and i've always wondered what Dreams really were. Now i think i know. They are windows into the Astral where our minds/spirits touch the divine. Maybe we need it to sort of recharge internal power batteries, i'm not sure. Any theories?
Excellent observation. Yes every night when we sleep a part of our Inner Being leaves the body. Some call it AP (without consciousness), some consider it a different level. What ever you want to believe or call it. A part of you leaves your physical body and reunites with a higher level of Who You Are that remains in the spiritual realm. (In truth the highest level of every spirit basically cannot completely enter into the physical, that is why they have created the illusion of what we call physical reality).
And in that case as you put it so eloquently our minds/spirits touch the divine.
And science has proven many times that there are certain physical parts of our bodies that get "recharged" only when we sleep. A person can actually, literally die if they are forced to stay awake for too long. (talking weeks here not days) We need the energy exchange that only happens when we sleep.
quote:
The coolest tidbit i've seen yet is a logical example for souls/minds of humans that don't know where to go after they're dead. They didn't know in life, and they don't know in death. I'm just not sure what all of these astral wildlife/elemental things are that are out there, mostly innocent, but often malevolent.
Read the post about hitchhikers. I think that is what has happened there. The person has encountered a dead person that either does not know they are dead or does not want to admit to themselves that they are dead.
In truth I believe that is about the worst thing that can actually really happen. All the other negs, are a manifestation of the subconscious minds of the projector. Just my opinion.
Jilola wrote
quote:
I don't see why you'd want to load up on scary stories. I can see how knowing the kind of things one might come up against can help you to lessen the startle. I tihnk moer important and beneficial way would be to find in you the source of love and compassion. In my experience those two are much more helpful than preparing, and thus inviting battle.
I know other people will come and post to the contrary and you'll just have to make the choice of your approach to the encounters you may have.
Anyway,here's two of mine
First really scary encounter was the classic hag type, much like a scarecrow with twig like claws, lots of sharp teeth and the tenacity and bad temper of an angry terrier. Kept coming at me no matter what I did to evade or repel her. Screming like a banshee too. My solution was to stand my ground and extend all of my compassion and love and a wish that whatever wshe was would find her peace. Never seen her since.
The second was a bunch of vampire type people I found doing the mother of all battles with a bunch of people. I got tangled in the fight and only got out of it by refusing to allow myself to be dragged into the scenario. Once I decided what my interpretation as I found myself alone in an attick with a youngish, frightened boy. I woke up to my alarm bell before I could figure out who he was and why he had created the battle with the vampire people.
I agree loading up on scary stories only fuels the subconscious mind with possible scary things happening when you do AP, or dream. There are several people out there that are more than happy to make posts that talk about all kinds of gloom and doom s*#t. Don't listen or read about them. They will fill your head with negative stuff. Unless you are the kind of person that can read about it and know that it is only their life experience, and can understand that it does not have to be yours.
Sometimes I read them just to affirm in my own mind what does not have to be.
And as jilola points out, sending unconditional love to a neg is a great way to make it go away. A neg is only there to control you. Don't let it have the chance. Send it the opposite of what it wants. Don't fight. Just love.
Nay makes a great point from personal experience.
narfellus wrote
quote:
I agree that if you're going to project, do so with as much knowledge as possible. Now, for me, well...i'm a horror movie fan. I'm a long time d&d gamer. I would enter the astral EXPECTING a fight, and my very thinking it would probably initiate it. My imagination is so chock full of gooey monsters that part of me would enjoy seeing them, and then i'm sure i would promptly regret it. So, as curious as i am, i like my scares on the big screen, not the the screen in my head.
I also was big time into D&D, and AD&D back in the early 80's. I experienced six months of fighting what appeared to be real demons. Exactly like in the game. I could write a book about it. But noone would believe it.[:D]
mar10fl wrote
quote:
if there are demons out there and they do harm us... whats the difference between if we are OBE and waking state. they could reach us either way, so it is most likely inevitable
Yeah, I mean think about it. Do demons bother you in real life? If not then they are not real in AP. The conscious mind has a hard time understanding AP in the traditional sense. It is all new. Therefore our conscious minds that have to make sense of everything pull on anything to figure out what is going on.
Experienced AP'ers go through things like this when they are first learning. As they learn more, they come to understand that most of everything that they cannot control is a manifestation of the conscious and subconscious minds trying to unite together on something that they have never done before.
As they advance they inevitably come to learn that they can fully control all aspects of the AP world with their conscious minds. And that there is nothing to fear. After all if you break down AP to its most simple level, it is literally in your head. Although you are not in your head at the time.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 26, 2004, 06:25:16
Post by: narfellus on May 26, 2004, 06:25:16
thelou, so you were a gamer too back in the day! That's great. It's really just a wonderful story-telling medium, but damn, over the years D&D has opened my mind to just about every single esoteric concept known to man, wrapped up in the package of fantasy and dice. I have to admit, i'm intrigued by your story you haven't told yet. Between you and me, even if in a private post, i would like to hear your story. I think i understand enough of this to realize that anything and everything mankind has every thought or imagined resides in the astral, so the only thing to fear is really projections of our own subconscious. If you don't understand that you can take a lot of negativity with you.
So, what i am gathering is that these Negative Beings are there all the time, but they're SUPPOSED to be there. In our physical life we deal with them all the time, we just might not know it. By drawing on psychic powers and opening oneself up to those possibilities, we catch a glimpse of the plan God has for us, and the environment in which he wants it to happen. When projecting, one places him or herself into a state where you can interact with these beings. Many want to cause fear, but resisting fear is one method of soul-strengthening. God allows these beings to exist for a purpose, and such a divine purpose it is.
I can see how telling scary stories would be detrimental to the purpose of most travelers. When you are venturing in a continuum constructed mostly by your mind, negative thoughts/fear/violence will do the same thing to you as in the physical. Whereas Love, positive feelings, compassion and Bravery will aid you tremendously, just as they do in the physical.
Of course, this all comes from a guy who hasn't tried OBE yet! I just want to know the rules before i do anything rash. And like i said, as an old time Dungeon Master and Call of Cthulhu Keeper, i've always enjoyed monsters, the Dark, and things that go bump in the night. My imagination roils with them, although i don't wallow in it.
So, what i am gathering is that these Negative Beings are there all the time, but they're SUPPOSED to be there. In our physical life we deal with them all the time, we just might not know it. By drawing on psychic powers and opening oneself up to those possibilities, we catch a glimpse of the plan God has for us, and the environment in which he wants it to happen. When projecting, one places him or herself into a state where you can interact with these beings. Many want to cause fear, but resisting fear is one method of soul-strengthening. God allows these beings to exist for a purpose, and such a divine purpose it is.
I can see how telling scary stories would be detrimental to the purpose of most travelers. When you are venturing in a continuum constructed mostly by your mind, negative thoughts/fear/violence will do the same thing to you as in the physical. Whereas Love, positive feelings, compassion and Bravery will aid you tremendously, just as they do in the physical.
Of course, this all comes from a guy who hasn't tried OBE yet! I just want to know the rules before i do anything rash. And like i said, as an old time Dungeon Master and Call of Cthulhu Keeper, i've always enjoyed monsters, the Dark, and things that go bump in the night. My imagination roils with them, although i don't wallow in it.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: thelou on May 26, 2004, 07:50:36
Post by: thelou on May 26, 2004, 07:50:36
quote:
I think i understand enough of this to realize that anything and everything mankind has every thought or imagined resides in the astral, so the only thing to fear is really projections of our own subconscious. If you don't understand that you can take a lot of negativity with you.
Exactly. Anything and everything that the human mind has ever thought of or ever will think of already exists somewhere. I don't know how this sort of "thought bank" exists in relationship to the Astral plane. But it is somewhere. Irregardless of time, past, present, or future. Because in truth there is no such thing as time, or space for that matter. It is all an illusion created by God for us to be able to live in a physical dimension.
Because we are not really physical beings, we are spiritual beings "roleplaying" if you will in a physical dimension.
I like many others out there had my mind opened to all kinds of things through that game. Is it any wonder that it was banned in so many places. I mean we as a closed minded society cannot have anything that might open peoples minds.[B)]
My main character was a twenty something level anti-paladin. And he could kick some serious butt.[^]
quote:
So, what i am gathering is that these Negative Beings are there all the time, but they're SUPPOSED to be there. In our physical life we deal with them all the time, we just might not know it. By drawing on psychic powers and opening oneself up to those possibilities, we catch a glimpse of the plan God has for us, and the environment in which he wants it to happen. When projecting, one places him or herself into a state where you can interact with these beings. Many want to cause fear, but resisting fear is one method of soul-strengthening. God allows these beings to exist for a purpose, and such a divine purpose it is.
Exactly, I especially like your comment, and such a Divine Plan it is.
Negative, or evil is real. It was created by the same Divine force that created everything. (Yes God created evil).
I suspect that some will argue that point.
So here is the deal.
Everything no matter what it is has to have its exact opposite, or it cannot exist. You cannot have hot without cold, love without hate, etc. etc.
But you do not have to get hurt by them. For example mild hot or mild cold will not hurt you. But extreme hot or cold will burn you. Even kill you. But our knowledge and awareness of them is what is important. If you see a hot stove, you know not to put your hand on it. You will get burned.
Evil or neg is the same type of thing. If you have a good knowledge about them you will know to just not go there. And you wont get hurt.
Funny for a newbie you seem to have a better understanding than some people. Keep a straight head on your shoulders I think you are in the right direction.
(Did you also have basically every page of every book memorized also, like ok I have to turn to this page right here, yep there it is)?
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 26, 2004, 08:26:12
Post by: narfellus on May 26, 2004, 08:26:12
Well, i've owned so many books over the years they all kind of jumble up now. The monster books were always my favorites; i must own ten of them for 3rd edition now. The latest is called The Book of Fiends. Hey, a book of Negs! Some are actually drawn from A. Crowleys research. The way D&D approaches the spirit world is a pseduo-Judea Christian outlook. Demons and Devils are there to tempt mankind, and those that succumb to sin live out their afterlife tortured by demons that specialize in lust, or greed, or skimping out on your child support. Now, this has LOTS of overlap with what i've been learning. Basically, everything that ever was and ever will be imagined was created in Heaven first. I believe that higher lifeforms (angels if you will) are us in another role. We decide a lot of WHY we come to earth, what we want to learn and what we want to take with us there and how we want to die. Isn't that trippy? We decide how we want to die, and not only are we not scared but we look forward to it! The physical life, this illusion, is a drop in the bucket for our spiritual counterpart, that part that rules the mind and body. I don't think most people understand this, although i'd better posters on this board do. What great people you all are.
Anyway, back to D&D, my point is that using our considerable powers of imagination, which is the greatest gift God has given us, for He in fact Imagined us himself (and we are God, remembering what We are) game designers have plumbed the length and breadth of mythology and created a game out of it. Now, let's take for example a classic D&D villian, Demogorgon, he of the 2 babboon heads. This was an old-world diety, not necessarily evil like in the gamebooks. I've tried to research online to find out where it came from, and it has skirted through the eons in a variety of roles. Now, if Mankind knows and has recorded this demon/spirit/projection, then it exists on the Astral. It has a thought-counterpart. Is it a violent, cunning Neg, or a projection of people's fears? I've come across so many many pieces to the cosmic puzzle of life from many different authors, religions, teachings and plain old prayer, and it is wonderful to see the pieces fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.
So, i suppose Demogorgon is as real as one wishes it to be, and as fearful as others assume it to be.
Lou, do you think my preconceived notions woudl be a help or a hindrance in the astral? I really wouldn't want to meet such a thing unless i had a Fortress of Iron Will against its lies. Heh, i love gamer-talk. :)
Anyway, back to D&D, my point is that using our considerable powers of imagination, which is the greatest gift God has given us, for He in fact Imagined us himself (and we are God, remembering what We are) game designers have plumbed the length and breadth of mythology and created a game out of it. Now, let's take for example a classic D&D villian, Demogorgon, he of the 2 babboon heads. This was an old-world diety, not necessarily evil like in the gamebooks. I've tried to research online to find out where it came from, and it has skirted through the eons in a variety of roles. Now, if Mankind knows and has recorded this demon/spirit/projection, then it exists on the Astral. It has a thought-counterpart. Is it a violent, cunning Neg, or a projection of people's fears? I've come across so many many pieces to the cosmic puzzle of life from many different authors, religions, teachings and plain old prayer, and it is wonderful to see the pieces fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.
So, i suppose Demogorgon is as real as one wishes it to be, and as fearful as others assume it to be.
Lou, do you think my preconceived notions woudl be a help or a hindrance in the astral? I really wouldn't want to meet such a thing unless i had a Fortress of Iron Will against its lies. Heh, i love gamer-talk. :)
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: thelou on May 26, 2004, 20:38:51
Post by: thelou on May 26, 2004, 20:38:51
quote:
Well, i've owned so many books over the years they all kind of jumble up now. The monster books were always my favorites; i must own ten of them for 3rd edition now.
WOW, well I'm afraid that I am a little out of the loop compared to you. The last book I bought back in the 1980's was brand new when it came out. It was the "fiend folio". I kind of dropped out after high school. I went into the military.
quote:
We decide a lot of WHY we come to earth, what we want to learn and what we want to take with us there and how we want to die. Isn't that trippy? We decide how we want to die, and not only are we not scared but we look forward to it! The physical life, this illusion, is a drop in the bucket for our spiritual counterpart, that part that rules the mind and body.
We even decide on which parents we want to be born to. Who if any brothers and sisters we want to share our lives with. And which of our other soul friends we want to have as real friends in our lives.
But none of this is etched in stone. It is an intent before we are born. After birth it is up to us to decide.
Sorry if this is boring to all of you non gamers out there. Please feel free to post about the original content. Whilest my new friend and I share D&D stuff.
quote:
Anyway, back to D&D, my point is that using our considerable powers of imagination, which is the greatest gift God has given us, for He in fact Imagined us himself (and we are God, remembering what We are)
Very cool. Not many people I have met understand this fully. Most only theorize on it.
quote:
. Now, let's take for example a classic D&D villian, Demogorgon, he of the 2 babboon heads
Laughing out loud!!! because my anti-paladin kicked his but more times than I can remember. Did not matter if I used my sword, or crushed him with psionics. (I also had a kick butt Bard) In one game I actually took the key to the 7,8, and 9th levels of Hell from him. After that I could conger and control anything I wanted to fight for me.
Keep in mind all you non gamers, that my character was actually good. A very strong good character could have dominion over lesser evil spirits.
quote:
I've come across so many many pieces to the cosmic puzzle of life from many different authors, religions, teachings and plain old prayer, and it is wonderful to see the pieces fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.
Big time agree![:D][:D]
quote:
So, i suppose Demogorgon is as real as one wishes it to be, and as fearful as others assume it to be.
Lou, do you think my preconceived notions woudl be a help or a hindrance in the astral? I really wouldn't want to meet such a thing unless i had a Fortress of Iron Will against its lies. Heh, i love gamer-talk. :)
Ok narfellus here is my belief.
Yes Demogorgon, and all others are as real as we think them to be and as fearful as others assume it to be.
But here is the key. ALL EVIL is an illusion. A figment of our imagination. It only resides here in the physical plane. Just like hot can burn you here in the physical plane. But the physical plane is not real. It is an illusion created so that we can experience physical reality. Away from God.
I cannot really say how your "preconceived notions" would work for you in the astral plane. But read further and I think you will find your answer.
It has been literally years since I have encountered a neg while in the astral. Then I ran from them because I was afraid.
Now if I saw Demogorgon I think I would laugh at him as he ran away. Because I know more now than I did then, also I know that I killed him so many times I would expect him to be like, oh s@#t it is him again.
Much of it lies with what you believe.
Here is a true story it happened in the 1970's. There was a guy who worked for the rail road. He worked on train cars that were refrigerated. Some how he accidentally got locked into one of the refrigerated cars and could not get out. He had a paper and pencil and kept a log of his final hours. He wrote about how it was getting colder and colder, and after a while he came to accept that he was going to freeze to death. He made several entries about how he was slowly freezing to death. His final entry stated that this would probably be his last entry, as he was so cold now that he could hardly write. And the writing was difficult to read. As one who is freezing to death would not be able to write very easily. An autopsy confirmed that he froze to death. He literally froze to death. He knew it was going to happen.
He believed it.
He accepted it.
But here is what he did not know. The refrigeration unit on the train car he was in was broken and not working. The overnight temperature never fell below 70 degrees Fahrenheit. His mind and what it believed was happening to him caused him to die.
So when you AP much of what happens is a result of what our conscious minds think/believe.
So let me ask you. Do you think your preconceived notions will be a help or a hindrance to you? And since you know what a Fortress of Iron Will is, don't you think you could conjure one up if you thought you needed to?
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 27, 2004, 06:51:24
Post by: narfellus on May 27, 2004, 06:51:24
Could i conjure a Fortress of Iron Will? Well, i suppose if i could imagine such a thing, in practice it would occur. But then it would mean that I NEEDED it to occur, because something happened OBE that required my mental/psychic protection. Which leads back to the fact that Demogorgon, or Orcus, or other real or imagined demons or Negs are really figments of a grand a glorious design by God, for God (and us, although i don't think most people realize it). This is so cool.
The more i learn and plug the pieces together, i realize there really is nothing to truly fear. Now, things can scare us, which is normal, but the fear is surrmountable. Here and in the non-physical.
Wow, this is great connecting with someone else on a gamer level! I can really see now why my mom and dad were always so scared by it. It revealed to my little mind darker and more esoteric aspects of our reality that were outside organized religion. The occult is not casting lightning bolts and fireballs, it is connecting with the Divine through an alternate sort of prayer. Not that there is anything wrong with regular prayer, it works quite well. :) OF course the occult can get you into more trouble than going to Sunday School, so i see why people are afraid of it.
The more i think about it, the more i realize that probably EVERY Old World Religion, sect, cult had its basis in some sort of spirit worship, and i have a much better idea as to what those beings were. Elemental Beings for the most part could have HUNDREDS of names, Greek or Roman or Summerian and early man gave them such credibility because Nature is what they had. Here comes Science and debunks the old ways with new logic, and the practice of magic slips away and is supplanted by shallow thinking. Well, not always shallow, but our society in general prefers not to think of the supernatural.
I've never fought any of those major demons or princes like you have thelou, except Pazuzu once. I think when i was younger i was scared to look at them, or even read about them, but they were always favorite enemies for gamers, and still are! What else is the epitome of good? Enemies that inflict suffering just for the suffering, that oppose all that is just and lawful?
I could discuss this further thelou, if you don't mind, or anyone else that wants to take a crack at theology/metaphysics/D&D.
The more i learn and plug the pieces together, i realize there really is nothing to truly fear. Now, things can scare us, which is normal, but the fear is surrmountable. Here and in the non-physical.
Wow, this is great connecting with someone else on a gamer level! I can really see now why my mom and dad were always so scared by it. It revealed to my little mind darker and more esoteric aspects of our reality that were outside organized religion. The occult is not casting lightning bolts and fireballs, it is connecting with the Divine through an alternate sort of prayer. Not that there is anything wrong with regular prayer, it works quite well. :) OF course the occult can get you into more trouble than going to Sunday School, so i see why people are afraid of it.
The more i think about it, the more i realize that probably EVERY Old World Religion, sect, cult had its basis in some sort of spirit worship, and i have a much better idea as to what those beings were. Elemental Beings for the most part could have HUNDREDS of names, Greek or Roman or Summerian and early man gave them such credibility because Nature is what they had. Here comes Science and debunks the old ways with new logic, and the practice of magic slips away and is supplanted by shallow thinking. Well, not always shallow, but our society in general prefers not to think of the supernatural.
I've never fought any of those major demons or princes like you have thelou, except Pazuzu once. I think when i was younger i was scared to look at them, or even read about them, but they were always favorite enemies for gamers, and still are! What else is the epitome of good? Enemies that inflict suffering just for the suffering, that oppose all that is just and lawful?
I could discuss this further thelou, if you don't mind, or anyone else that wants to take a crack at theology/metaphysics/D&D.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: BOATS on May 27, 2004, 08:51:17
Post by: BOATS on May 27, 2004, 08:51:17
I felt I was about to be attacked once by three men in robes outside a church. As the approached two Angles about 25 feet tall with gold breast plates appeared with swards. I tell you the sight of the two Angles scared me more then the three robed characters. They told everyone no lies and persacution would take place. I pray alot for protection and keep pratacing love and caring for others. This seems to help.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: thelou on May 27, 2004, 20:24:32
Post by: thelou on May 27, 2004, 20:24:32
BOATS
Wow, thats really cool. I like to hear about other people having things like that happen to them. I have seen so many strange things happen, and have done so many things that are "impossible" that if I ever poured my life experience out to a psychologist, I would probably be locked up for the rest of my life. But why would you be afraid of Angles?
Hay man, have you read the book "conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsch? If you have not, I really think you should make that your number one priority. With the understanding that you have you have either studied it very well, or you simply must read it.
There was a time on this planet who knows how long ago that every culture was involved in the spiritual way of things. But mans evolution was slowing down. We only learned about spiritual stuff, look at the ancient Druids. So That, that governs our world, (God) introduced science. You have seen the result of that.
But now (as it is supposed to by Divine order) is coming to the spiritual. In time organized religion will fall to the way side, and spiritualism and science will be able to come together as one, not opposites. What amazing things will happen then, will only boggle the mind.
quote:
I felt I was about to be attacked once by three men in robes outside a church. As the approached two Angles about 25 feet tall with gold breast plates appeared with swards. I tell you the sight of the two Angles scared me more then the three robed characters. They told everyone no lies and persacution would take place. I pray alot for protection and keep pratacing love and caring for others. This seems to help.
Wow, thats really cool. I like to hear about other people having things like that happen to them. I have seen so many strange things happen, and have done so many things that are "impossible" that if I ever poured my life experience out to a psychologist, I would probably be locked up for the rest of my life. But why would you be afraid of Angles?
quote:
The more i think about it, the more i realize that probably EVERY Old World Religion, sect, cult had its basis in some sort of spirit worship, and i have a much better idea as to what those beings were. Elemental Beings for the most part could have HUNDREDS of names, Greek or Roman or Summerian and early man gave them such credibility because Nature is what they had. Here comes Science and debunks the old ways with new logic, and the practice of magic slips away and is supplanted by shallow thinking. Well, not always shallow, but our society in general prefers not to think of the supernatural.
Hay man, have you read the book "conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsch? If you have not, I really think you should make that your number one priority. With the understanding that you have you have either studied it very well, or you simply must read it.
There was a time on this planet who knows how long ago that every culture was involved in the spiritual way of things. But mans evolution was slowing down. We only learned about spiritual stuff, look at the ancient Druids. So That, that governs our world, (God) introduced science. You have seen the result of that.
But now (as it is supposed to by Divine order) is coming to the spiritual. In time organized religion will fall to the way side, and spiritualism and science will be able to come together as one, not opposites. What amazing things will happen then, will only boggle the mind.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 28, 2004, 08:53:09
Post by: narfellus on May 28, 2004, 08:53:09
I have read Conversations with God, and a lot of my current beliefs were greatly influenced by it. But it is not the only book on spirituality i've read, and not EVERYTHING it says i agree with. This goes back to what God says that humans are simply an inadequte filter. As great as Neal is, even HE can't understand all that God says/knows/does. No human has ever (expect for maybe Jesus) gotten the message 100% right because we're not SUPPOSED to get it all now. That would defeat the purpose in trying and learning and failing and trying again.
I happen to agree thelou that great things are coming as science and magic roll into one. They aren't so different after all, and our spiritual selves are wonderful beings. My take on religion is that religion is a GREAT GREAT thing, and here's why. It is a starting point for everyone's spiritual growth on this planet. People can go to Church their whole life and not know diddly about Who They Are and Why They are Here, but most world religions teach Love, Tolerance and Forgiveness. They are beacons of love and hope and positivity, and that's never a bad thing. So, yeah, religions are involved with silly wars and arguments and confusion, but this is really just human confusion expressed through a stringent and narrow belief system. I asked my mom yesterday if she had ever heard of the Astral Plane, and she hadn't, but thought it was good that i liked to research things like that. Oh, Lord, the things i could tell her, but she wouldn't believe it. I'm pretty confident that i (and you too thelou, we have very similar, almost identical philosophy) that is culled from years of reading and practice and tolerance from most religions and streams of thought/consciousness. I have not Traveled out of body yet, but i know what it is, i know what dreams are, i know the connections between our spiritual, mental and physical beings, and i sort of know a teensy tiny bit of what happens after death. The best parts we don't know because our mortal brains can't handle it, and that's cool, because we really don't have to wait that long to find out. OBE and AT is just a preview people like to take. Me, i can probably wait until the real thing. we'll see.
I happen to agree thelou that great things are coming as science and magic roll into one. They aren't so different after all, and our spiritual selves are wonderful beings. My take on religion is that religion is a GREAT GREAT thing, and here's why. It is a starting point for everyone's spiritual growth on this planet. People can go to Church their whole life and not know diddly about Who They Are and Why They are Here, but most world religions teach Love, Tolerance and Forgiveness. They are beacons of love and hope and positivity, and that's never a bad thing. So, yeah, religions are involved with silly wars and arguments and confusion, but this is really just human confusion expressed through a stringent and narrow belief system. I asked my mom yesterday if she had ever heard of the Astral Plane, and she hadn't, but thought it was good that i liked to research things like that. Oh, Lord, the things i could tell her, but she wouldn't believe it. I'm pretty confident that i (and you too thelou, we have very similar, almost identical philosophy) that is culled from years of reading and practice and tolerance from most religions and streams of thought/consciousness. I have not Traveled out of body yet, but i know what it is, i know what dreams are, i know the connections between our spiritual, mental and physical beings, and i sort of know a teensy tiny bit of what happens after death. The best parts we don't know because our mortal brains can't handle it, and that's cool, because we really don't have to wait that long to find out. OBE and AT is just a preview people like to take. Me, i can probably wait until the real thing. we'll see.
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: BOATS on May 28, 2004, 10:09:15
Post by: BOATS on May 28, 2004, 10:09:15
I will take a look at that book. I had a pastor recommend that book at a spiritual retreat I also that I will be looking at the Tibetan Book of the Dead and Tibetan Dream Yoga. .
Title: Dangers of OBE
Post by: narfellus on May 25, 2004, 11:54:48
Post by: narfellus on May 25, 2004, 11:54:48
Ok, i've read a lot of these posts and i've ordered the cream of crop books from Amazon. I'm a very spiritual person and i've always wondered what Dreams really were. Now i think i know. They are windows into the Astral where our minds/spirits touch the divine. Maybe we need it to sort of recharge internal power batteries, i'm not sure. Any theories?
Anyway, from what i've read about first hand experiences, it seems that people get visited a lot, often by beings that want to hold onto them, threaten them, scare them. Now, to me, that doesn't sound like fun, particularly when you lie down for a normal night of sleep, but your Third Eye has been permanently opened and every foray into sleep allows your attackers another chance. That's just scary to me, and could very well be the cause of demonic possessions; weak-willed people who are approached by entities too powerful for them to resist. They've gotten in over their heads in metaphysics.
So, have these dangers (and i'm sure there are more, i'm still new to this) been considered by others before they embark on this psychic adventure, or are most people so excited by the opportunity that they jump into it without first deciding that they SHOULD?
The coolest tidbit i've seen yet is a logical example for souls/minds of humans that don't know where to go after they're dead. They didn't know in life, and they don't know in death. I'm just not sure what all of these astral wildlife/elemental things are that are out there, mostly innocent, but often malevolent.
What's the worst that anyone has seen (and still has the presence of mind to describe it?)
Man, some of this sounds too much like Cthulhu...
Anyway, from what i've read about first hand experiences, it seems that people get visited a lot, often by beings that want to hold onto them, threaten them, scare them. Now, to me, that doesn't sound like fun, particularly when you lie down for a normal night of sleep, but your Third Eye has been permanently opened and every foray into sleep allows your attackers another chance. That's just scary to me, and could very well be the cause of demonic possessions; weak-willed people who are approached by entities too powerful for them to resist. They've gotten in over their heads in metaphysics.
So, have these dangers (and i'm sure there are more, i'm still new to this) been considered by others before they embark on this psychic adventure, or are most people so excited by the opportunity that they jump into it without first deciding that they SHOULD?
The coolest tidbit i've seen yet is a logical example for souls/minds of humans that don't know where to go after they're dead. They didn't know in life, and they don't know in death. I'm just not sure what all of these astral wildlife/elemental things are that are out there, mostly innocent, but often malevolent.
What's the worst that anyone has seen (and still has the presence of mind to describe it?)
Man, some of this sounds too much like Cthulhu...