Dead People

[Fresco]

Can dead people (those that have passed onto the astral planes permanently) see and hear whats going on in our present physical world??
I'm surprised I never asked that question here, but I was really curious whether they could.

Obviously ghosts can because they are in RTZ, but what about the higher astral planes??

[personalreality]

have you seen or otherwise experienced some evidence of ghosts existing at all, let alone in the RTZ?

furthermore, do you have experiences that prove to you that the RTZ is really there as a separate "zone"? (instead of just being a normal astral experience that is built around one's attachment to physical reality)

sorry, i wasn't trying to be a buzzkill, i just don't know how to answer that question cause my first thought is  "*ppshh* ghosts".

[Fresco]

have you seen or otherwise experienced some evidence of ghosts existing at all, let alone in the RTZ?

furthermore, do you have experiences that prove to you that the RTZ is really there as a separate "zone"? (instead of just being a normal astral experience that is built around one's attachment to physical reality)

sorry, i wasn't trying to be a buzzkill, i just don't know how to answer that question cause my first thought is  "*ppshh* ghosts".

I dont know the answers to any of those questions PR, thats why I started this thread 

[personalreality]

Obviously ghosts can because they are in RTZ, but what about the higher astral planes??

but you said obviously, like you knew that ghosts existed and that they existed in the RTZ.

[CFTraveler]

Can dead people (those that have passed onto the astral planes permanently) see and hear whats going on in our present physical world??

Depends on who you ask.  Many authors believe that they don't, at least at first.  I personally don't have enough information to make up my mind, and may never.

Obviously ghosts can because they are in RTZ,

I don't know that that's a fact- in many of the stories of hauntings I've heard about, the 'ghosts' seem to behave in a non-sentient way, so what many people think are 'ghosts' may be something other than the spirits of people, more like energy recordings in a medium, what is known as 'residual' hauntings.  So I don't know about that either.

I don't have any fixed opinions, just observations based on my own experiences, and that would be that the departed spend a lot of "time" getting used to instant reality creation, and probably only interact with the living when they have reacquired the ability to tell the difference between their personal creation and the collective environment- if possible.  But by then the interest may be academic, they'll more than likely be ready to do something different.
Just pondering, obviously.

[DH]

Hi Fresco,

I don't know about "ghosts" in the rtz.  In my own experience I have heard from "deceased" people through OBE and possibly dreams.  I believe that many of them do know what's going on here.  Others seem to move on to other things.

[personalreality]

I was kind of waiting until some others chimed in before i threw my opinion in the mix.  but CFT brings up my point.

i think that in most instances, what people consider to be hauntings are really emotional imprints onto the energy of the space.  conversely, the more dramatic instances (like poltergeists moving things and whatnot) i think are attached to people not places.  i think that it is a very very neglected "shadow self" that has become so compressed inside of a person as to reach a point of critical mass and manifest physically.  what that means basically is that the energy in the "thoughtform" from the suppressed shadow gained so much intensity that it projected into physical reality.

[Fresco]

but you said obviously, like you knew that ghosts existed and that they existed in the RTZ.

From all the stuff I read thats where ghosts are most prevalent.  
Ghosts supposedly have trouble crossing over, so they get stuck in RTZ.  At least thats the way I understood it

[Fresco]

I was kind of waiting until some others chimed in before i threw my opinion in the mix.  but CFT brings up my point.

i think that in most instances, what people consider to be hauntings are really emotional imprints onto the energy of the space.  conversely, the more dramatic instances (like poltergeists moving things and whatnot) i think are attached to people not places.  i think that it is a very very neglected "shadow self" that has become so compressed inside of a person as to reach a point of critical mass and manifest physically.  what that means basically is that the energy in the "thoughtform" from the suppressed shadow gained so much intensity that it projected into physical reality.

I really hope I enter the astral planes next time I project and see all this for myself, because I dont really understand any of what you just wrote

[Xanth]

I think PR should do up a quick post explaining the "Shadow Self"... if he hasn't already. 
It's an interesting concept.

[Fresco]

So the official answer is probably not.  Dead folks are out in space somewhere in different dimensions doing whatever dead people do.
Therefore they cant hear nor see whats going on in our wacky world.

Okey dokey, gotcha

[Xanth]

So the official answer is probably not.  Dead folks are out in space somewhere in different dimensions doing whatever dead people do.
Therefore they cant hear nor see whats going on in our wacky world.

Okey dokey, gotcha

I call it Focus 3 oC... but yeah, for the most part.
I don't believe many "spirits" actually reside in or around this physical plane.
If they do, they don't do it for long.

[personalreality]

I'll write a post on my blog about the shadow self and post it in the pulse, further explaining my point.

[Fresco]

I call it Focus 3

So Focus 1 would be RTZ and Focus 2 an in-between plane between Focus 1 and 3?? Something like that??

[Xanth]

Focus 1 oC is this physical reality, which, Frank included what people call the real time zone... I'm on the fence as per that.
Focus 2 oC is our subconscious, imagination, astral... personal consciousness area (where we dream, lucid dream, astral project and obe).
Focus 3 oC is the collective consciousness area.

[Naykid]

Can dead people (those that have passed onto the astral planes permanently) see and hear whats going on in our present physical world??
I'm surprised I never asked that question here, but I was really curious whether they could.

Obviously ghosts can because they are in RTZ, but what about the higher astral planes??

I was interested in Ghost's, years before I was interested in Astral Travel.  I very much believe spirits and ghosts can see us and some even help out their loved ones, when they can.  I've only seen two Ghost while not in the astral, but I've been touched a lot.  That sounds perverted. lol  What I mean is I've literally had hands push on my back, and once on my behind when I couldn't get up from the couch because my back was out.  I've also have audio and mental pictures that help with communicating.

Now when I'm in the astral, I believe I'm surrounded by deceased people.  Not every time, but most times.  I could never figure out why people who believe in astral travel can't bring themselves to believe in spirits or ghosts.  

Fresco, why is it so important for you to put a focus label on what you believe?  I really think the people that are so focused on labeling every damned thing, will get no where that they haven't already made up in their heads.  Just do it, I say.  Leave the labels behind and just do it without any expectations.  

[Xanth]

Now when I'm in the astral, I believe I'm surrounded by deceased people.  Not every time, but most times.  I could never figure out why people who believe in astral travel can't bring themselves to believe in spirits or ghosts.  

Well yeah, in the collective consciousness areas, of course those people could easily be considered "spirits" or "ghosts".  At least the ones who were incarnate here on Earth at one point or another.
Although, as with Personalreality, I'm not completely buying into the "spirits" on Earth thing... not yet, at least.

As with you though, I have had my fair share of "physical" experiences.
I've even had something walk through me, or at least it certainly felt that way.  It literally took my breath away.

Fresco, why is it so important for you to put a focus label on what you believe?  I really think the people that are so focused on labeling every damned thing, will get no where that they haven't already made up in their heads.  Just do it, I say.  Leave the labels behind and just do it without any expectations.  

Why do some of us label "every damned thing"?  Because some of us learn better when we do that.  Myself for example.
In any case, I'm not saying Fresco is one of them though.  I was just giving him a possibility based upon my own experiences.  It's up to him if he wants to take it or leave it. 

I do agree with you though that we should "just do it" (good ol' Nike, ftw), but I also think that trying to understand WHAT you're doing and HOW you're doing it is also very important. 

[Naykid]

I was curious why Fresco felt the way he does, but thanks for your input. 

[NoY]

I saw the dark silhouette of a spirit in the kitchen they stood about 5 feet high and scared the life out of me lol

:NoY:

[Fresco]

Focus 1 oC is this physical reality, which, Frank included what people call the real time zone... I'm on the fence as per that.
Focus 2 oC is our subconscious, imagination, astral... personal consciousness area (where we dream, lucid dream, astral project and obe).
Focus 3 oC is the collective consciousness area.

And focus 3 goes to focus 4, then 5...etc..etc,  for infinity, right??

[Fresco]

Fresco, why is it so important for you to put a focus label on what you believe?  I really think the people that are so focused on labeling every damned thing, will get no where that they haven't already made up in their heads.  Just do it, I say.  Leave the labels behind and just do it without any expectations

I'm not necessarily putting labels on anything, my nature is ask tons of questions all day long.  It used to drive my parents crazy, but I believe you get smarter by constantly questioning things around you

[Xanth]

And focus 3 goes to focus 4, then 5...etc..etc,  for infinity, right??

I only really try to understand up to Focus 3 oC.
After that I have, literally no clue.  LoL
I guess you could say that I'll worry about it when I cross that bridge. 

[Fresco]

I only really try to understand up to Focus 3 oC.
After that I have, literally no clue

Then I have 1 more question to bug you with X.  What are the oC's after the focuses you mention??

Are those sub-astral planes??? 

[Xanth]

Then I have 1 more question to bug you with X.  What are the oC's after the focuses you mention??

Are those sub-astral planes??? 

oC... Of Consciousness.
It was Frank's way of separating his Focus Levels from Robert Monroes Focus Levels.

That's all. 

[OutOfThePrison]

Well, I read on somehwere that there a many places and people to visit for the dead ones in the astral plane so they do not generally visit the physical plane.