It is understandable that people think of their physical selves as being "themselves". In the sense that, when the physical body dies, then that is that; which is basically what I used to think for the first 20-odd years of my life. But no, visiting the Astral teaches you many things.
Virtually all these mystical books you see, talk about a process of "enlightenment" of one form or another. I firmly believe, even though these books can sometimes differ widely in their teachings, they are all basically writing about the same thing, i.e. Astral travel of one form or another.
There are two primary aspects that you discover from visiting the Astral... 1) As incredible and as unbelievable as it may seem, the physical body is merely a carcass that you can slip out of... and, 2) what people call "themselves" is merely a collective sense of consciousness that exists entirely independently of the physical; and is merely "plugged into" the physical body, as opposed to being a permanent feature.
The process of Enlightenment, as taught in all the various mystical books, I believe is merely the process of becoming "enlightened" to the above two primary aspects of human existence. Okay, the books tend to add a various slant on things, depending on the views and experiences of the writer, but such is only human. :)
But the mere act of being able to travel to the Astral, is not the be-all and end-all of enlightenment. You need to visit the Astral and guide yourself along a certain path. Which is very tricky to do!
From my interaction with this BBS, I feel many would-be projectors think learning how to project with a degree of expertise is the hard part: following which it's all downhill from then on. Nothing could be further from the truth, I'm afraid. Learning how to project is difficult, no mistake about it. But the challenges you face - following projection - are maybe a hundred times more difficult to overcome.
Also, depending on the beliefs you have formed in your physical life, some of those challenges may even be next to impossible to overcome without a major change in character and/or beliefs. Problem is, on the Astral, as you think so it becomes. And as I've said before in previous posts, whatever you expect to see or feel, on the Astral, so your Astral reality will be.
But there is a fine line which you can tread, which takes you through "belief system" areas into the Astral proper. And within these regions it is possible to summon "guides" who will help you understand all manner of things: both about Astral life and Physical life.
On the subject of physical death, if you simply live and die without having had any knowledge of Astral matters, and you didn't subscribe to any kind of religious belief system while on Earth, then you will basically take up some kind of lower-region activity.
The kind of activity you will gravitate towards will depend on your past physical life to a high degree. Opera singers will continue singing opera; carpenters will continue practising carpentry; avid stamp-collectors will continue avidly collecting stamps, mathematics teachers will continue teaching mathematics: all completely oblivious to the fact they have undergone physical-body death.
If, while on the physical, you subscribed to some kind of religious belief-system then, upon physical-body death, you should gravitate to the corresponding belief-system area within the Astral. Within these areas the inhabitants generally are aware that they have died, but are not all that worried as they believe they have moved to being in heaven with their God.
However, if while living on the physical, you can learn to tread that fine Astral line that "enlightens" you as to the reality of the whole thing: after a time, being on the Astral will become as familiar to you as being on the physical (in fact, it can become even more so as it has always been your "true home").
With myself, for example, more and more times it is happening to me where I sort of begrudgingly come back to the physical due to some physical body demand. I'm even getting to the stage where I'm beginning to think that having a physical body is a bit of a burden.
But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm suicidal or anything. No, far from it. I'm still very positive and upbeat about things. It's just that the more familiar I become with the Astral, the duller physical life becomes: you can't really travel anywhere of any real interest; you can't fly; you have to eat and breath; work long hours every week just to keep a reasonably-sized roof over your head, etc., etc.
By comparison, the Astral is a far more exciting and rewarding place.
The primary purpose of treading this fine line to enlightenment, is so you can learn how to prepare for the time when you discard your physical carcass. If you fail to do this, then the chances are you will end-up stuck in a lower-region activity area. But if you prepare beforehand, you will have the path to follow, and all the assistance you need to instantly travel to the higher regions.
Yours,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
With myself, for example, more and more times it is happening to me where I sort of begrudgingly come back to the physical due to some physical body demand. I'm even getting to the stage where I'm beginning to think that having a physical body is a bit of a burden.
But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm suicidal or anything. No, far from it. I'm still very positive and upbeat about things. It's just that the more familiar I become with the Astral, the duller physical life becomes: you can't really travel anywhere of any real interest; you can't fly; you have to eat and breath; work long hours every week just to keep a reasonably-sized roof over your head, etc., etc.
By comparison, the Astral is a far more exciting and rewarding place.
Yours,
Frank
I know exactly what you mean. Even though I do not have all the astral experience you do I still find the physical rather boring and very much a burden. I enjoy the few times I get a chance to leave this place and travel to the other deminsions. Unfortunately because the physical is such a burden I do not get a lot of time to "take a break from it". I am kind of careful about saying such things though. I am afraid that someone will take it the wrong way and think I am suicidal or something. I will be happy when I am free of this physical burden though.
So my question is - what level is the consciousness and mind at when we encounter death?
I think it will have a lot to do with our state of mind at death. But as Frank as stated you are not really your physical body, it is just a vehicle. From my experiences out of body, your consciousness is actually (or can be) alot more open than when in your physical body. After experiencing this being the physical body can seem rather dull, boring, and burdensome.
You bring up an interesting question about dieing in your sleep. Something to think about, though not worry about. When you die you will not be in a dream state. You will have your consciousness so you will be able to tell what has happened if you seek.
I forgot to mention, as regards dying in your sleep:
Repeated Astral activity, over a length of time, of the kind that is required to plot your own post-death pathway, has the effect of permanently altering the experience we generally call: the sleep state. That is to say, no feeling in the physical body and conscious awareness shut down with no memory of any dreams.
Although I am not there yet, I can see that I will eventually progress to the stage where my collective sense of conscious awareness will spend daytime within the Physical and nightime within the Astral.
For instance, I cannot remember the last time when I simply went to sleep and awoke the next morning with nothing having "happened". It seems like whenever I am not projecting, I'm Lucid Dreaming.
Problem is, nowadays, whenever I start Lucid Dreaming, there is a part of my consciousness that detects it and tries to wake me up in the dream so "we" can project. It's like a child tugging at my sleeve saying, "Please can we go play now; please; come one; wake up; let's go and play; ahh, please!"
At first, that same part of my conscious awareness was doing its level best to prevent me from projecting. I remember all the failed attempts where the slightest noise, even just the smallest little pop or bang, and "it" would zip me back into the physical in an instant.
I spent ages trying to remain calm and explain to "it" that falling sensations were normal; vibrations were a cool thing to have; pops and bangs were all part of the fun; flying through the air was a joyous experience; and so forth. Now "it" has turned full circle and can't get enough.
Yours,
Frank
I read in a book once that when one becomes "enlightened," one stops sleeping entirely. One is permanently awake, aware at all times. Sounds exhausting to me! I also read someplace that if most people really knew what "enlightenment" entailed, they would run screaming from it.
What a wonderful adventure . . . such places we can go if we can accept the consequences!
Tisha
The problem with remembering dreams and astral projections was the mind split. Robert Bruce said that the base level of consciousness, the master copy, is left in the body until death. Gradually its level of consciousness can increase, making integrating dream and astral projections easier. Higher level projections become possible to integrate to some extent, although in a way that is hard for the base level to fully understand. They seem to be abstract even if they were clear when they occured. In death, though, the mind split effect is not the same. This time you are taking the base level, the master copy.
Enlightenment is not so bad. There is still sleep, too. It is just that after enlightenment sleep does not involve complete unconsciousness and dreaming is optional. Buddha slept a couple of hours per night.
quote:
Originally posted by Tisha:
I read in a book once that when one becomes "enlightened," one stops sleeping entirely. One is permanently awake, aware at all times. Sounds exhausting to me! I also read someplace that if most people really knew what "enlightenment" entailed, they would run screaming from it.
What a wonderful adventure . . . such places we can go if we can accept the consequences!
Tisha
Yes, the "mind split" phenomenon can be a problem. But eventually one set of memories rolls into the other and becomes just one collective set. It was a little scary to contemplate, at first, but I'm actually beginning to attach more weight to my Astral memories than Physical memories.
Difficulty in the beginning is caused by the fact that life, on the physical, entails being "awake" during the day and "asleep" at night.
Eventually, you get used to the idea that "yourself" being your collective sense of conscious awareness, can occupy a "day body" and a "night body" and it never gets tired. It's only the "physical body" that needs to actually sleep.
"Run Screaming"? No way. The Astral is a wonderous place that fills you with love everytime you visit. Well, the physical is the same (depending on how you look at it) which I know, Tisha, you have the full jist of already. So you should have few problems finding your true path on the Astral.
Yours,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
The kind of activity you will gravitate towards will depend on your past physical life to a high degree. Opera singers will continue singing opera; carpenters will continue practising carpentry; avid stamp-collectors will continue avidly collecting stamps, mathematics teachers will continue teaching mathematics: all completely oblivious to the fact they have undergone physical-body death.
Frank- I don´t see the sense in this. We at the forum al have some religious knowledeg, but is it not harsh to state that the poor ignorant people out there would not know that they are dead just because they had no religious belife in life? Of course they will realise! And I tell you this, if peopel get "stuck" in a self made dimension refusing to die, It has nothing to do with what they belived in life - it has al due to not wanting to let go of the physaicll body. It could happen to a religious person too. I am sure that most atheists will realise that they are dead preatty fast and move on.
Felix
-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --
Hi Alex,
Your post heading caught my attention as I'm becoming to feel that I have some information to offer on this subject because I'm taking care of palliative people on a daily basis... I'm also a spiritual seeker, have had a near death experience and one walk out/in experience.
Also this brings to mind one very scarey and awesome experience that I had a few months ago. I was actually being attacked spiritually and found myself being in the place just before you decide where you're going to go to live on the other side. Let me tell you I was aware, fully, bodily, keenly sensing every drop of dewy sweat on my face. I had form...I was floating in space, with the stars and planets. A group of stars came twoards me and made a sound almost like the fizz in a glass of pop as it went right thorugh me. It felt like they kissed my cool, dewy cheek. I then realized that I was maintaining my energy in bodily form and if I just let go I would expand out amongst this wonderful place but never losing my sense of self. It felt like a very liberating stretch. I was *more real* than in this limited human body. It was so freeing, I felt content, happy and at peace.
The creature that was bothering me then wanted to me to make a decision as to where I was to go. On one side below me was a place of demons and human souls that had chose to be there. Chosen being the important word here. The thing that he was offering me was more power beyond my beliefs. (not interested:)
On the other side was a planet filled with people, wonderful people.. it was home. I had no doubt as to where I was going and that it wasn't my time yet but I didn't want this to end. I started to feel a pull from the friendly planet and their voices started to get louder. I felt like I would be consumed by their joy, if that makes any sense. It sounded like a back yard bbq with everyone laughing and joking around. The pull became very strong and even though I would have liked to even go for a visit. I knew it was time to come back.
My transition back was swift but that feeling of calmness, lightness and joy stayed with me for several days after. I've been back there once and I know that I can go anytime I want because I consciously know the way now.
So may I suggest that when your consciousness starts to transfer fully to the spirit you actually wake up to a keener sense of true self and being being. When I'm with people who are actively crossing over they usually take little trips back and forth. It confused me at first because I could feel them leave but then they'd be back again. I finallly figured out that they transit to the other side to test the ground there, talk to a few relatives and then pop back to their human body as long as they can stand it... can you imagine how restrictive the dying body would feel? but finally the pull from their home planet is too great and the human body is so spent that they make the final leap. Its their human ties that bring them back friends, relatives that's why its important to verbalise to the person, even if you think they can't hear, that 'its okay to go'. It makes their transition easier. What a relief it must be:)
I don't think it really matters how we die. If we die suddenly then it will be a bit of a shock and the spirit may hang around the body for a while but theres no way you can ignore that pull that I believe is with and beyond the white light. Also it doesn't matter what spiritual level we're at because there is a sense over there that we really are fully conscious spirits having a physical experience. The real life/existence is on the other side. this is a learning experinece and sometimes a very difficult one to say the least.
If you were to die in your sleep the transition would be very nice.. it would be like waking up in heaven. I went to sleep on that planet with so many problems and woke up in perfection... sounds very good to me :)
with love
waterfall
Hi Frank,
I just wanted to comment on the quote below. (I hope it works it my first quote:)
It also brings to mind what Alex was saying about the movie, What Dreams May Come. Which I really enjoyed but had a real problem with their depiction of what happens to people who commit suicide. Actually I was surprised at how angry I felt. I thought it was a little irresponsible as to how this subject was portrayed but anyway :) I felt this way for a few different reasons but the main was that I have recall of about 10 lives, so far where it got too much for me and I commited suicide...mostly drowning. Which translated into a fear of water for so many years.
Anyway here's what you wrote:
quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
On the subject of physical death, if you simply live and die without having had any knowledge of Astral matters, and you didn't subscribe to any kind of religious belief system while on Earth, then you will basically take up some kind of lower-region activity.
The kind of activity you will gravitate towards will depend on your past physical life to a high degree. Opera singers will continue singing opera; carpenters will continue practising carpentry; avid stamp-collectors will continue avidly collecting stamps, mathematics teachers will continue teaching mathematics: all completely oblivious to the fact they have undergone physical-body death.
My understanding is that we are in perfection, in spirit between lives. We come to earth, other planets or dimensions to experience. When we die we go back into the perfection becoming it and the life is sort of deteched from ourselves. Maybe an analogy would be like your luggage that you may carry with you and show your friends look what I did. We all come over with a path to follow and many things to do, people to interact with.
I believe that we go back to be with the others that we have lived lives with or have a connection to. Possibly like our soul group. On the planet that I saw there were many and I'm not sure how big a soul group might be. I'm inclined to believe that there were a few groups that were interconnected.
The lives that we're living are not a true reflection of our soul but of the experience... maybe that experience would be to see what its like to live without a religious belief system and how you would deal with all of the probelms with only your own witts to rely on.
I know that when people are transiting they often see a figure from their religious beliefs welcoming them or beconing them to come with them into the light. Its always someone or something that they have been close to in this life a person or pet even..but beyond the light I feel we are released from the earthly burdens and enter into that state of perfection, bliss but stark true reality and awareness.
I just wanted to relay what my tantric teacher always stresses. You were born into the body to be here on earth. Connect with the earth *be* in your body, you have a purpose here. Time is short for the living, spirit is eternal :)
namaste Frank
and happy wanderings:)
waterfall
quote:
Originally posted by distant bell:
quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
The kind of activity you will gravitate towards will depend on your past physical life to a high degree. Opera singers will continue singing opera; carpenters will continue practising carpentry; avid stamp-collectors will continue avidly collecting stamps, mathematics teachers will continue teaching mathematics: all completely oblivious to the fact they have undergone physical-body death.
Frank- I don´t see the sense in this. We at the forum al have some religious knowledeg, but is it not harsh to state that the poor ignorant people out there would not know that they are dead just because they had no religious belife in life? Of course they will realise! And I tell you this, if peopel get "stuck" in a self made dimension refusing to die, It has nothing to do with what they belived in life - it has al due to not wanting to let go of the physaicll body. It could happen to a religious person too. I am sure that most atheists will realise that they are dead preatty fast and move on.
Felix
-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --
Then I must be an exception, Mr DB, as I readily admit to not having any "religious" knowledge at all. Plus, I don't know where you got the idea of "poor and ignorant" from. I'm sorry, but I feel I ought to strenuously point out that I definitely did not use those words, and meant nothing of the kind.
Naturally, as in all things, there are odd exceptions. It's just that people with religious beliefs gravitate to the "belief system" areas, while realising their physical body is dead, because their beliefs (while on the physical) in the main incorporate a concept of some kind of "afterlife". So they are already highly-geared towards leaving the physical and entering whatever is their description of heaven.
Plus, if their beliefs have been heartfelt over a long period of time, they will often be met by "helpers" of the same religious pursuation; who will explain everything to them and clear up any post-physical confusion, etc., as necessary.
Otherwise, you say, most people will simply realise they are dead in any event and move on.
The above statement, to me, throws up two big questions: the first being about the "realisation" aspect. In the sense of how are they going to realise? And the second question relates to the fact that even if they do realise, by some slim chance, then where are they going to move to?
Though, rather than us go into it at this stage, perhaps I might respectfully suggest you take a tour of the lower regions and see what goes on there for yourself. Then by all means come back to me with your findings.
Yours,
Frank
Do realise that there is more beyond the body than "heaven and hell". Yes there does seem to be areas that reflect the idealized heaven from religions and there are places that are hells. I do not think that when everyone dies they go to "the light" or fall into fire. Everyone is at a different spiritual maturity. Some just could not stand to be in a highly spiritual place. They just are not developed enough. That does not mean they cannot reach it, but they need to deal with some things and grow before they can. So each person gravitates toward a region that they are intune with. As they develop, if they choose to, they move higher up. If this is not true, if there are not many different planes, then were are we going when we project?
Greetings all,
Well said fallnangel, when we pass over, basicaly what we are here ,we are there. The movie the Sixth Sense with Bruce Willis was a good example of what one persons outcome may be.
You have do a lot of work in the physical to release the essence enough to get closer to it's source. In theory, it's simple, theres a little bit of divine essence in us ,and a hole lot of ego's trapping it. It's quite easy with practice to see the ego'sand may'be shelve or hide them, but to get rid of them is a different matter.
If we want to have smooth transition when we pass over,work work,work on yourself.
Regards Steve
hi everyone,
I do think that everyone is offered the light as a natural process. Some may not choose to go to the light and shut it out because they are too attached to the earth and their past life. In the soul retrieval work that we do we often come across spirits that refuse to go the to light and stay here causing problems in the places that they are attached to. We give them the option of moving into the light..best case scenario. Other times we encapuslate them and move them to a place where they can't hurt anyone.. for instance over a large body of water. Be careful when boting on lake Ontario *grin* theres a few nasty vortexes out there. (Actually with vortexes we sink them under the water.)
It might just be me but some here seem really attached to judgement. A person might be here to have the experiences of not being a very nice person. I know that I have had past lives where I have murdered. It didn't take me long to understand that that was something that I didn't want to do again. It doesn't mean that their soul is any less developed than another one and who is to judge? We can only judge ourselves if we are so inclined. It's all just experiences. I do believe in development because thats why we're here....but the actual learning would take place on the other side. We get the experiences here and then the understanding developes when we're in our truest forms, in spirit free of all attachments to any other planes of existence.
I don't believe in *hell*. Yes there are places where chaos, dark ones, demons and those that choose to align themselves with these ones....but no one is forced to do anything or go anywhere that they don't need to on the other side.
Frank wanted to know how a person can identify when they have crossed. I ask back how could they *not* know? It's such a stark reality that you are presented with. Death and transition is really, in your face, so to speak. You are out of your body, your body may be unconscious but you are out of it fully awake, whole of mind and body. How could you not know something is going on? Even if its confusion initially but then soul instincts kick in.
With moving on it's not a matter of knowing what to do next. An instinct kicks in that you may not feel while still in the body. Theres a pulling... I can't stress that enough because it feels physical although your not in your body and then you might have loved ones welcoming you to the other side.
love
waterfall
Waterfall, give me some tips because I regularly come across entities on the lower regions that died long ago that don't realise it.
Many, I have found, have body-parts missing, etc., and are still writhing in agony after suffering the most horrendous death.
It's the children, especially, I have a "problem" with. Not so much the adults. I've tried "communicating" so many times and all I get is a blank stare, I'm afraid.
What's the secret?
Yours,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
Waterfall, give me some tips because I regularly come across entities on the lower regions that died long ago that don't realise it.
Many, I have found, have body-parts missing, etc., and are still writhing in agony after suffering the most horrendous death.
It's the children, especially, I have a "problem" with. Not so much the adults. I've tried "communicating" so many times and all I get is a blank stare, I'm afraid.
What's the secret?
Yours,
Frank
Hi Frank,
Sarcasm duley noted *grin* It's a healthy thing to be able to look at your beliefs and question them. Mine change with the experiences that I have and those that I talk to that are sincere with ideas that feel right to me.
But having said that I'm wondering why you are delving around in the lower regions? are you really trying to help these souls? if so my hat goes off to you. It's tricky, full of symbology, nothing ever is at it seems and chaotic as theres not really any rules just lures and games. I don't think I would 'trust' anything that I see down there. Is this really a child or a negative entity trying to get you to do something for them? I woul dbe very careful and not very sentimental there.
I have past life memories of having my life 'expunged', my one friend had her skin pealed off of her...lovely and has conscious memory of it, I have been I forget the word right now but it's when they tie your legs and arms to four different horses, chop the limbs a bit to make them weaker and send them running....quartered I think. The way it happens with me is I remember my past lives backwards with the death first and then the learning from the life. People are really creative when it comes to killing others (intended sarcasm:)
If you are trying to do soul retrieval work in those areas and are coming upon souls like this. I would first wonder if they really wanted to be helped. It could be their own self imposed 'hell' for something that they had done. If they present themselves as children just remember they are no longer in body but of spirit and spirit has no age...they're probably trying to communicate, tell you their story, with you by how they look and sound. The children that I have been involved with that are dying are always more concerned about their parents and family then themselves because they have a very clear view of where they are going without all of the adult entrapings that we have. All you can do is send them love and energy, try to find out what is binding them and keeping them in that place and release it. I can assure you that they know that they are in spirit but are unwilling to go on for some reason. They have to mentally create that disfigured body you see and when you think about it, it would take some energy to do that.
....just my opinions for what they are worth :)
waterfall
Oooh what an interesting thread... I believe what Frank says in how everyone goes to their own little dimensions with other like-minded people after death.... after all, "thought is a primary energy" to quote Frank.
Hey, even the Pleidians say it.. look at my quote below, it is apparently from a Pleidian talking through a medium when asked about this exact question - where do different individuals go after death?
- Ashfo
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"You are First Cause. You are a portion of the great energy. And you, yourselves are thought manifestations of what you think you are."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Greetings all,
"Ditto", Ashfo ,interesting indeed.
[Waterfall], When doing soul retieval and you come across spirits that require help, where are they when you come across them, and what are they doing.
Also, when you come across spririts that you say, wont go to the light or are creating problems,when you take them over the water, how long do they stay there and does anyone council them. I dont mean to sound niave but I know nothing of this subject.
Regards Steve
Waterfall...
My interest has been stimulated by curiosity, more than anything. I'm not really trying to help these entities, so much as actually communicate with them in order to find out what's going on in their minds. Plus, I always had an irresistable impulse to go where no man dares to tread. :)
Thanks for the warnings, yes, I understand about the "negatives" only too well. I spent around five years fighting with the things. I can still get caught out, though. There was this Scamp the other day, in the form of a multi-coloured cube, whose little "party trick" was to head towards you and not stop. Yep, it got me alright. I'm still sore from the kicking I gave myself for jumping out of the way!
Basically, you said in your posts that you did "soul retrieval" work. This sparked off my interest because I recently met an entity who took me to a large garden full of children who had been "retrieved". So my curiousity has been doubly ignited.
Also, it sparks off questions such as whereabouts on the Astral do you retrieve these entities from, and where do you take them? Who are you "working for"? How did you get recruited? How do you know which ones to retrieve? Do you work from some kind of list or do you project and get directed somehow?
I'm thinking also, you must have to navigate with a very high degree of accuracy; and the art of navigating to specific places is something I am avidly working on, so I'd be grateful for any hints and tips.
Sorry for all the questions, but if you could do your best to fill me in, in layman's terms (if at all possible) as I am not well versed in mystical terminology.
Yours,
Frank
Wow Frank,
And everyone,
What a good read. From my obes,frank, i sense what you are saying.
Thanks
Paola
I have only breify glanced over this thread but I do plan on reading it carefully soon and then responding, but I did catch something someone said about what Frank said (got that?) which I would like to reiterate:
"Oooh what an interesting thread... I believe what Frank says in how everyone goes to their own little dimensions with other like-minded people after death.... after all, "thought is a primary energy" to quote Frank."
I agree wholeheartedly with this. When people talk about Heaven, in essence they are talking about a perfect state which is inhabited by perfect beings, all of like mind and will. For example, when Christ talked about he and the Father being one, and all of us also being one...this is the goal for those advanced, progressed beings who have completely eradicated negative energy from themeselves. This is perfection...and no, I don' think we sit around strumming harps all day but in fact we work to help others see things the way we do and become perfect.
I think when we die we will remain pretty much the same way we are now and will have a long road towards perfection...but of course everything will be different because it will be like a permanent OBE until we are again united with a perfected physcial body...and even with that incorruptible body "OBE" or whatever you want to call it, will be possible. I believe we will even, at some point- if we become perfect- will be able to create worlds and help other spirits reach perfection. "The game of life" is training grounds for becoming like God, and we are already a part or extension of Him- part of his conscious--and death is nothing more than us moving on to another step in our eternal path, and hopefully we will have taken from this life the lessons necessary to help us...
fides quaerens intellectum
quote:
Originally posted by steveb:
[Waterfall], When doing soul retieval and you come across spirits that require help, where are they when you come across them, and what are they doing.
Also, when you come across spririts that you say, wont go to the light or are creating problems,when you take them over the water, how long do they stay there and does anyone council them. I dont mean to sound niave but I know nothing of this subject.
Hiya Steve and everyone,
I'm having to take a deep breath and get my head together for this thread:) My experiences have been very natural, I guess is the best way to describe it. I'm not into reading a lot of books and channelings about method but have been very much into do what comes naturally for myself and I feel it's easiest this way for others too. My spiritual searching has been sort of backwards you might say. I have the experiences and then go looking for the answers to what exactly it was that I experienced. In the beginning it was pretty scarey (as many of you guys know too) but with time and practice I have come into understanding.
I have to confess that I came across this message board through a search and haven't read any of Robert Bruces works. Last night I sat and read a few of his papers online and was happy to see that what I have come to know and what he is saying have good similarities. I don't want to contradict what he says because I find that its good to follow a certain path if its working for you and believe that his work and sharing is very important. Everyone is here for a very important reason and not by any fluke:)
So here goes: First of all everything is done with the most positive intent for everything involved or it's just not done. In the physical... I have a group of lightworking friends, the core of us have been together learning for 24 years. We found that because of our interest and the need in our community, that sometimes, someone would be having ghost problems or intelligent *negative* entity/energy problems. Most people these days people who have a 'nice ghost' seem to like it and want to keep them around:) Also positive entities are just usually confused about being on the other side .. and yes I have thought about it and agree that they may not really know they are dead. So they just need a direction to go or say it is a child and it's worried about it's grieving parents. Anyone can talk to them and let them know that it's best for them and the parents to go into the light. It works really well if you can have the loved ones also be there and let them go.
So we have put ourselves out there to be a help. A few times we have helped a woman who has a few dark witches trying to harm her... that was the most interesting one so far. Anyway the way we do it.. is to get ourselves oriented with the enviroment. (For a negative entity or energy) Then we form a circle drop into meditative levels and as a group using visualizations to guide the energy into the light. We all encourage it to go and usually when we start doing this it will either leave easily or will get really vengefull. It may try to attack us by sending nasty visuals back etc. One way of containing the negativity is to contain it in a ball of white light and then all together we make the ball smaller and smaller with the intent of sending it to the light. You know when it finally gives up and goes you can sometimes hear an audible scream or whailing sound.
It has been the energy vortexes that we've put actually under the water. They are etheric openings that let all sorts of energies leak through. It's not good to have them in your bedroom or in your livingroom *grin* So we move them where they won't cause too much trouble.... and our channeled information is that moving them will do no harm. We always check it out first.
hope this is what you wanted to know,
in light
waterfall
Originally posted by Frank:
I can still get caught out, though. There was this Scamp the other day, in the form of a multi-coloured cube, whose little "party trick" was to head towards you and not stop. Yep, it got me alright. I'm still sore from the kicking I gave myself for jumping out of the way!
lol.. I do love your terminology and can understand what you mean:)
Negative entities are really creative, I'll have to give them that. I used to try and bring them into the light. Then I realized that they always had to identify themselves when asked. Now I find I just slam them with positive energy. I guess the ultimate is when we truely understand that they cannot harm us and walk right through them without a quiver. I can, with some things but with others they still can get me to react...like your cube:)
Also, it sparks off questions such as whereabouts on the Astral do you retrieve these entities from, and where do you take them? Who are you "working for"? How did you get recruited? How do you know which ones to retrieve? Do you work from some kind of list or do you project and get directed somehow?
With what I do it's called Soul Rescue work. It's something that I have always done and am doing more as I become consciously empowered on a spiritual level. Which really is just remembering and integrating, for me, of skills from past lives. Which I am told that are heavily native with Shaman lifetimes. I do this on many levels, physical in my palliative work and on other earth dimensions that are happening simultaneously, different timeframes, sometimes different planets (for lack of a better description). It really is very complicated and I don't know all of the specifics, thats one reason why I am here and looking for others who might be doing the same work. Apparently you are asked to to be of service in this manner and I think there are a few etheric groups doing this work but mine is the Earth Guardians. The way it works is like an assignment and it all happens in the dreamtime. Sometimes I remember the journey there and sometimes I just become aware in the middle of a situation and know what to do. you don't go there on your own but are directed..sometimes I have guides or other rescue workers that I meet with in the astral and we all work together.
I do remember lessons on time traveling mainly and learning how to travel through 'rips' in time or tears in the fabric of time. You know how when a new energy or skill comes in it makes a big impact at first and then with use you get used to it and you don't really remember doing the action...it just becomes natural? this is how it is for me now with traveling and getting there. I just relax, go into a trance state, black out and 'wake up' in the altered dimension with complete control and information on why I am there. If I want to go visit someone which I do sometimes.. and only with specific permission. I just concentrate on them, visualize them and use emotion to 'love' myself there. I just build up a longing and loving feeling for the person and I go. Sometimes I see the way there other times I just end up where I can see them. Lately when I'm doing channelings/readings for a person I end up in their 'space' it just happens.. but I do find it exhausting and can't do a lot of readings for people as I would like to. I have to work on that.
Many things in my life have lead up to this point. I can look back and over past lives and see the direction and purpose but when all of this part of my spiritual work came in about 10 years ago it was very neat and scarey for me. I received many answers by learning how to trance channel and by asking my friend who has been channeling the Echo for many years. I'm finally feeling that 'I'm not crazy' :) and that I'm getting a handle on things.. if you can ever really get a handle on the astral..*smile*
YOu know what they say.. just when youthink you've got it all figured out..spirit comes in an knocks you out of your comfort zone and turns your world upside down... don'cha love spirits 'sense of humour' *grin*
anyways thanks for your interest Frank,
and I'm also interested in that place of the retrieved children. I think I'll see if I can visit them..sounds wonderful :)
in light
waterfall
(I apOLOgize in advance fOr the Letters "L" & "O" being in Large caps as my keybOard is pLaying up & wOnt accept L & O in smaLL caps)
Hi Guys
I think the whOLe OBE is fairLy subjective & depends LargeLy On the experience Of the PrOjectOr in transLating & interpreting what's gOing On arOund them. I'm nOt sO sure abOut peOpLe reaLizing that they are dead, fOr many it seems they have buiLt up sO many expectatiOns On what they wOuLd feeL at the time Of death & in many cases they cOntinue On with things that are famiLiar, never cOnceding that they may have passed away as they assOciate death with sOmething pretty bad & negative.
I thOught the mOvie " the Others" pOrtrayed this vey weLL & they handLed the tOpic Of suicide tactfuLLy, cOmpared with "What Dreams May COme".
The mOvie pOrtrays NicOLe Kidman as a wOman whO has kiLLed herseLf & her 2 chiLdren. She cOntinuOusLy Lives Out her Life in her hOuse with her 2 kids, never reaLising the whOLe time that aLL Of them were dead. NOt exactLy the "What dreams may cOme" depictiOn Of heLL Or the fire & brimstOne Of the Christian faith, but fOr an OBE,er what cOuLd be wOrse than being trapped in One pLace aLL the time, even if it is a miLLiOn dOLLar mansiOn.
GOOd JOurneys aLL
MObius
Greetings all,
[waterfall], Thanks for the reply, you work sounds very rewarding
[mobius] ,sorry mate, it must be frustrating, but I can't stop laughing. f they had a section in Asrtal Pulse like, "when things go wrong" that post would be the headliner.
Regards Steve
I have always been taught, always believed and have come to know that negative beings must identify themesleves....has this been your expereince as well?
fides quaerens intellectum
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel:
I have always been taught, always believed and have come to know that negative beings must identify themesleves....has this been your expereince as well?
fides quaerens intellectum
Yes, absolutely... but they don't always want to offer the information freely.
namaste
waterfall
quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
Waterfall...
Basically, you said in your posts that you did "soul retrieval" work. This sparked off my interest because I recently met an entity who took me to a large garden full of children who had been "retrieved". So my curiousity has been doubly ignited.
Also, it sparks off questions such as whereabouts on the Astral do you retrieve these entities from, and where do you take them? Who are you "working for"? How did you get recruited? How do you know which ones to retrieve? Do you work from some kind of list or do you project and get directed somehow?
I'm thinking also, you must have to navigate with a very high degree of accuracy; and the art of navigating to specific places is something I am avidly working on, so I'd be grateful for any hints and tips.
Sorry for all the questions, but if you could do your best to fill me in, in layman's terms (if at all possible) as I am not well versed in mystical terminology.
Yours,
Frank
Frank - I'm quite sure I'm not waterfall but you sound so earnest in your questions so I hope you don't mind. I think if you borrowed or purchased Robert Monroes 2nd book "Far Journey" and 3rd book "Ultimate Journey"
you would not be wasting your reading time. A rough map of the astral is presented in the second book and since you are becoming more adept at navigation this might prove beneficial to you. His 3rd book goes into some detail on "The Park" which is on a high region of the astral or from his perception "focus 27". Since you are quite familiar with focus 10 and mind awake/body asleep not to mention conscious obe it would give you good basic groundwork and answer your questions about who you retreive, who you work for, direction, the park, etc. Also, the knowledge presented in those 2 books has no religious overtones at all, he seems to approach the whole thing like an objective un-attached scientist or a curious explorer which I perceive you may relate to. Speaking just for myself, I would love to see you locate that park or reception center he speaks of. That garden with children sounds pretty close. I believe the park is the hub of this somewhat vast reception station so to speak. Keep us posted.
My best to you on your journey.
peace,
cho
I am firmly of the belief that there are indeed those people who, after dying, simpyl do not realize it. I think deep down somewhere they know, but they don't want to face it. Usually it doesn't last too long, speaking of them not realizing they are "dead" because really they are not dead, they have simply sloughed off (for lack of a better term) their physical body.
THen there are those who think, "Wow, I can do whatever I want and not get in trouble". For example, the sex fiend who hangs around the real time zone exposing himself and watching others have sex...although he cannot fulfill his unchecked sexual desires due to the lack of a physical body, he will hang around until he can overcome the problem(s) that he should have overcome while he was still alive in the phsyical.
Others who have lived lives in which they have gotten in touch with their spiritual nature and have developed self control will move on and continue to progress.... for whatever level of intelligence and enlightenment we attain in this life will remain with us in the life to come. I think it's failry straightforward.
fides quaerens intellectum
Thank you, Cho, your perception is spot on.
About 6 weeks ago I read Ultimate Journey for the first time and I was amazed at how my Astral experiences matched those of Monroe. Particularly in the way Monroe looks at the Astral from an objective, more scientific viewpoint. Plus, there's no talk of dungeons and dragons, demons or gods. Which I believe is no coincidence to the fact that we both are only too aware of the effects of releasing emotional energy on the Astral.
There was one *major* difference, however, which was the sheer extent to which Monroe had travelled. It was kinda depressing realising that, even after having had hundreds of Astral adventures, I had just scratched the surface. But there were so many parallels in our work, it brought out a terrific new sense of Astral excitement. As it happened, reading the book became a *major* turning point. To the extent where I now look at the Astral in a totally different light.
I was already working on developing a more controlled projection process, and became thoroughly fascinated by Monroe's concept of "phasing in" to the Astral. Compared to what used to be my "normal" projection process, i.e. shooting off at high-speed and hoping to land somewhere of interest, Monroe's technique seemed like the ultimate in accuracy and control.
Now, after 6-weeks of daily practice, I feel I am finally beginning to get somewhere, navigation-wise. The other morning I'm almost certain I travelled to a place that I've been to before. Which was rather fascinating. But I'll have to go there again another few times to make absolutely certain it really is the same area.
Thanks again for your pointers.
Yours,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:
I am firmly of the belief that there are indeed those people who, after dying, simpyl do not realize it. I think deep down somewhere they know, but they don't want to face it. Usually it doesn't last too long, speaking of them not realizing they are "dead" because really they are not dead, they have simply sloughed off (for lack of a better term) their physical body.
THen there are those who think, "Wow, I can do whatever I want and not get in trouble". For example, the sex fiend who hangs around the real time zone exposing himself and watching others have sex...although he cannot fulfill his unchecked sexual desires due to the lack of a physical body, he will hang around until he can overcome the problem(s) that he should have overcome while he was still alive in the phsyical.
Others who have lived lives in which they have gotten in touch with their spiritual nature and have developed self control will move on and continue to progress.... for whatever level of intelligence and enlightenment we attain in this life will remain with us in the life to come. I think it's failry straightforward.
fides quaerens intellectum
Hello peacefulwarrior,
After thinking about this for a while I understand where I am getting bunged up in my thinking :) Trying to integrate my own near death experiences and pondering about the process of death and transition... What I was feeling is that after you have been through the tunnel or traveled to the light and crossed over to the other side there is a process. During this process and after this process I don't think that you can truely know that you are still alive. You can deny the fact that you have crossed and create your own little *hell*...as you have said.
I have come across and done retrival work on what you might call earth bound spirits. They have ignored the call from the light and pushed it away...staying in this realm. ..but it seems that once we get them to go to the light and get on with their souls life, so to speak. They don't come back as confused or nasty..they may come back to guide others having been enlightened or even to say thankyou.
love and light
waterfall
Waterfall,
Hello! Well, one things is for sure, until we actually die none of us here will know EXACTLY how it is/feels, etc. After having read your posts I think highly of you and I respect all of your ideas and experiences, I think you have a great deal of knowledge and are a very open minded and truthul person.
Regarding death, I am taught by those whom I regard as prophets that all travel to the light eventually, and then even after that they are once again placed behind a veil and either choose progression or create their own personal hell...not much different than this life really.
Anyway, this thread is one of the of the most interesting in a long time!
-Dan
fides quaerens intellectum
Hi everybody,
Lately I was wondering upon the matter of death...
I'm young, healthy and my thinking of it has nothing to do with the fear of death...
But I don't understand one thing and I hope someone here will be able to enlighten me in this matter.
Robert describes death as the final OBE. But when you OBE (eg. everynight's OBEs) you have problems with remembering it. Everyone knws that they take place, but still the _mind_ when OBEing is on a different level of existing during this phenomena. And that causes problems when reintegrating - physical level of mind has a lot of problems with the mind-split and it appears (at least most of the time with average person) that we cannot recall the memory from the OBE.
So my question is - what level is the consciousness and mind at when we encounter death?
Because if it won't be the "normal", physical level (that we are used to), than our physical consciousness will not be existing. So we'll be trapped in a 'dream'. Our physical mind will be no more. So maybe we won't be existing there as ourselves, but as the other (a bit more divine) part of ourselves? If it's true, than it is true also, that we just cease to exist after death (in a way that we used to).
And there's yet anoter question. I quess that when we die because of an accident, etc., we have the feeling that we're dead and we will be able to go further. But what happens when we die at sleep...? It will be just a never-ending dream for us. Or maybe even we will consider our new environment as our new reality. I hope some of you watched the movie 'What dreams may come'. If yes, you'll know what I mean ;-)
hope someone wil help me in this matter, 'cause it's troubling me all the time. Again, it's not my fear of death that causes that thinking - it's just my curiosity. I've got my own theory at this, but I just want to know what is the others' opinion on it.
Take care,
Alex
Human life is full of magic, one only needs to spot it.
Quote from: Frank on June 05, 2002, 13:08:54
Waterfall, give me some tips because I regularly come across entities on the lower regions that died long ago that don't realise it.
Many, I have found, have body-parts missing, etc., and are still writhing in agony after suffering the most horrendous death.
It's the children, especially, I have a "problem" with. Not so much the adults. I've tried "communicating" so many times and all I get is a blank stare, I'm afraid.
What's the secret?
Yours,
Frank
Send PUL.
Quote from: Pauli2 on April 06, 2011, 17:54:43
Send PUL.
Now there's an answer worth waiting a decade for. I hope Frank appreciates it.
holy resurrection :-o
Let's please stop with the 9+ year old thread bumping please. :)
The point of me adding the links to these threads in my PDF was so that you could "read" the threads in their entirety and gleam some other helpful advice from the other many people who posted in them, and not just over-analyze Franks posts. :)